[Domination] Ichthellid Necro?

[JasonBourneZombie]

Huh, so all removal effects also qualify for obliterate's special rules? Just noticed in the codex it says it triggers unless the creature is obliterated or removed. That bites.

At least the graveyard still feeds off them.

[iNano78]

I should point out that you cannot actually reanimate or rise again a neutral sslak.  They are obliterated and do not go into a discard pile.

This also means You can't get Ichthelid from infected neutral Sslak.

Obliterate (Effect)
When you obliterate an object, it is utterly destroyed, leaving no
trace. The object is destroyed, then it is removed from the game. It
does not become discarded or get returned to a spellbook. Any ability
or effect printed on that object, or attached to it (such as a marker or
enchantment), which triggers on destruction, is canceled. Other
destruction effects, not attached to or part of the Obliterated object,
can still occur.
Examples: When you obliterate a Goblin Bomber it will not explode.
When you obliterate a creature with an Ichthellid Larva marker, the
Larva will not hatch. If you obliterate an opponent’s creature, their
Valshalla still gains a Wrath token.

...

 

...

OK, so Ichthellids go back into my "cards that aren't very good" pile, and my Necro continues to be a V'tar Suppression jerk that tries to kill other players' creatures and keep them from winning by V'tar before I swarm them to death with zombies.  Which sometimes backfires because Bloodthirsty zombies sometimes go after a damaged Sslak rather than the animals that are attacking the Sslak, effectively helping my enemy secure an orb.

Is it just me, or does Necro suck at Domination?

[rant]

I've noticed that dark mages have it hard in domination. Pentagram isn't worth it and demons are expensive for what they do.  A libro skeletal necro should still work.

[Mystery]

i have used the necro to good use. often you have the problem with action advantage. The ethernal servant reduces the solution that your oponent kills your creature to get a lead in actions as it comes back. If you kill something you could enchant it before with a rise again trading a quick action for a valuable full action (which are the key with guard, and melee attacks needed for orb control). And his creatures can't be put to sleep due to psychic immunity which is again a key spell trading qc for at least 1 full action (apart from priestess) or some dmg.


Adramalech warlock can easy punish uncautious mages with 30 dice with 3 fireballs.

In general deathfang is nice as he is fast and psychic immune.


Holy has more problems, as no creature is fast, healing is worthless, and nothing rolls quite many dice. Only bonus is devine intervention.

Even if expensive with an astrol anchor in the zone cerberus rocks (but thats theory haven't used him)

[iNano78]

Even if expensive with an astrol anchor in the zone cerberus rocks (but thats theory haven't used him)

Cerberus is WAY too expensive.  He also requires a Dark conjuration (e.g. your Graveyard or whatever) in the zone with the orb you want to protect; he can't even protect your Galaxxus or Altar of the Iron Guard, and if your opponent ignores his zone (e.g. goes after your other orb(s) or Galaxxus), he's completely wasted (his regular attack is crappy for his price).  *edit* Not to mention Elusive creatures just ignore him.  And he isn't immune to poison, if going with Poison Gas, Idol, Malacoda strategy to punish living creature swarms.

My problem with the Necro doing traditional V'tar Domination is that the Warlord or Beastmaster can do what he strives to do (creature swarm), except better.  Better choice of creatures that are easier to buff (e.g. Fast/Elusive creatures like Thunderrift Falcon, Cervere, Rajah, Tarraki, Slaknir + goblins, Mongoose Agility/Panther Stealth/Cheetah Speed, etc).  Cheaper mandatory spells (e.g. Iron Guard, Galaxxus, Tanglevine, maybe Gravikor given you don't have lots of ways to ground Thunderrift Falcons), cheaper Soldier buffs (e.g. Armory, Archer's Watchtower), and better anti-Galaxxus tech (e.g. Akiro's Hammer, creatures with built-in Piercing, Lion Savagery, etc).  About the only thing going for Necro is Wall of Bones / Mort, and the fact that Mass Sleep has no drawback.

Given that the premise of this thread is completely negated by "obliterate" (e.g. can't Ichthellid-impregnate or reanimate Sslaks), I might try a "Psychic Necromancer" that goes for V'tar Suppression / Mass Sleep the enemy creatures / Force Hammer enemy Galaxxus / kill the enemy mage(s) by swarming them.  Hard to pull off in multi-player, though.  I can drop Poison Gas Clouds in zones with orbs to make them hard to protect, maybe even Idol of Pestilence or [mwcard=DNJ01]Altar of Skulls[/mwcard].

Too bad [mwcard=FWE07]Mind Control[/mwcard] is Mind Mage only or I'd use it to steal enemy Cervere or Rajah.  Instead I guess I'll have to reanimate and zombify the big cats. 

Would it be easier to just go Forcemaster and use Sleep-Spores, Obelisk/Suppression Orb, V'tar Suppression, Tanglevine/Force Hold, and go for a melee beat-down?

[SharkBait]

...Pentagram isn't worth it and demons are expensive for what they do.

I know this isn't a warlock discussion, but I'm going to have to disagree with this particular point here. Sslak's count as enemy creatures, do they not? Even if they don't there are plenty of ways to be aggressive and trigger Pentagram.

[Mystery]

In team games i agree, but the necro has this action advantage cards; warlord has no fast creatures without using the action to cast a spell to make them fast. everything is living apart from a golem, which is slow on the other hand. And I have not really seen buffs like armory and watchtower have any use in domination

only talking about 2 players here.

[rant]

...Pentagram isn't worth it and demons are expensive for what they do.

I know this isn't a warlock discussion, but I'm going to have to disagree with this particular point here. Sslak's count as enemy creatures, do they not? Even if they don't there are plenty of ways to be aggressive and trigger Pentagram.

This is kind of the problem with pentagram (besides expensive for 9 channeling mages). It requires extra actions to work properly and those actions are situational. Compared to the other spawnpoints, pentagram just isn't worth.

[Puddnhead]

I don't see "doing damage to advance my position in the game" as situational.  It's much more aggressive than other spawnpoints for sure, but it's even less situational in Domination where you are either trying to kill the enemy mage or kill the sslaks in your way.  Either way, doing damage is what you should be doing...why not get mana (and creatures) from it?

[SharkBait]

I don't see "doing damage to advance my position in the game" as situational.  It's much more aggressive than other spawnpoints for sure, but it's even less situational in Domination where you are either trying to kill the enemy mage or kill the sslaks in your way.  Either way, doing damage is what you should be doing...why not get mana (and creatures) from it?

+1 to this and a respectful disagreement with rant .

Also, in the Necro discussion, has anyone tried a beatdown necro that focuses on dropping a few creatures from libro while passing out Rots? I haven't played enough domi with a necro to know if this would work

[rant]

I don't see "doing damage to advance my position in the game" as situational.  It's much more aggressive than other spawnpoints for sure, but it's even less situational in Domination where you are either trying to kill the enemy mage or kill the sslaks in your way.  Either way, doing damage is what you should be doing...why not get mana (and creatures) from it?

It's situational because you might not be in range for an attack and the pentagram doesn't gain its mana. If it doesn't gain its mana, I lose my action. That alone is enough for me to not play it.

All's good on the disagreement. I've learned so much about this game from everyone here and appreciate it greatly. I look at it like we are collectively trying to get better.

[iNano78]

Now that the Ichellid Necro is officially a dead idea, how about this for a Necro that intends to kill everything out there via zombie hoard:

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Domination Zombie Necro - v1[/spellbookname]
[mage]Necromancer[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWA02]2 x  Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNJ01]1 x  Altar of Skulls[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ04]1 x  Graveyard[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1J02]1x Gravikor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j11]1 x  Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j18]2 x  Poison Gas Cloud[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j20]1 x  Sacrificial Altar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j22]2 x  Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]4 x  Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1c23]1 x  Malacoda[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC09]1 x  Plague Zombie[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC19]2 x  Venomous Zombie[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC23]6 x  Zombie Crawler[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE04]1 x  Enchantment Transfusion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e19]2 x  Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e20]1 x  Harmonize[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e24]1 x  Magebane[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e27]2 x  Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1E02]2 x  Plagued[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1E04]2 x  V'Tar Force Sentry[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNQ02]1 x  Death Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q07]1 x  Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ10]1 x  Meditation Amulet[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q19]1 x  Mage Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ01]1 x  Dancing Scimitar[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNI01]1 x  Animate Dead[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]1 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]1 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI01]1 x  Drain Soul[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI04]2 x  Force Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI05]1 x  Mass Sleep[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]1 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1I03]1x V'Tar Suppression[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI06]2 x  Zombie Frenzy[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

Feels a little light on some staple incantations, Tanglevines, enchantments (like Astral Anchor), and creatures... kind of dependent on Mage Wand... maybe has too many zone-exclusive conjurations... but I really want to see Altar of Skulls trigger once in my life, and a multiplayer Domination match might be the only way.  I don't think I can spare the point or full action for an Acolyte, but AoS should trigger on its own if I try to swarm everything that walks.  Which reminds me, Gravikor is a must since I have no other way to deal with flyers (other than Idol, Plagued, Ghoul Rot, etc) - and Thunderrift Falcons are a given in Domination for any nature mage, and even some non-nature mages.

[iNano78]

Next Necromancer question that probably doesn't work in Domination:
- Does the death of a Sslak put a skull on Altar of Skulls and/or 2 mana on Graveyard (assuming it's the first creature to die in a given round)?

Looking at the Codex, I think that's still OK.  The last phrase regarding Obliterate suggests that effects NOT attached to the obliterated object can still trigger on its destruction - and the Valshalla example adds further evidence.

After trying something similar to the above book (but with 2x V'tar Force Sentry), I have decided that Zombies are particularly crappy in Domination.  First, your Bloodthirsty Zombies can get stuck in a zone you don't want them in, unable to activate without attacking an injured Sslak or a guard unless you Force Push or Teleport them, for instance.  And worse, I revealed my "super awesome combo 9000" of a [mwcard=MWBG1E04]V'Tar Force Sentry[/mwcard] and braggingly read the card aloud as I was about to push a Zombie Crawler into position to take out an enemy Fox... and then realized it can only be used to push enemy creatures.  Doh!!  Completely useless for my purposes.

On the other hand, it was fun activating Altar of Skulls.  Here's a pic of the moment the wall went up, isolating the Beastmaster (who was pushed by the Sentry) on the Warlord's side of the wall while the Necromancer, who till then had avoided killing Sslaks or going for V'tar at all, was left alone with his zombies and a few Foxes that were about to be poisoned to death.



Back to the drawing board.  Skeletal Necromancer seems to be the only way to go.  And then I feel obligated to have Altar of the Iron Guard, Armory, Galaxxus... and then start to wonder why I'm choosing Necromancer/Skeletons instead over Warlord/living soldiers...

[iNano78]

As a follow-up, I've now had the pleasure of playing 3 live games of 3-way Domination using a Skeleton Necromancer.  I've won 2 and lost the other by mage death (I was at 8 V'tar of the 9 V'tar goal when the other Mages were able to team up and take me down).  So... Necromancer is pretty strong.  The main reason: [mwcard=DNJ01] Altar of Skulls[/mwcard].  Believe it or not, this card is bonkers in multiplayer Domination - assuming the other players aren't using non-living creatures.  It's such a huge threat that it "must be dealt with" - which allows the Necromancer to chase orbs while other mages deal with the Altar.

After learning that I accidentally cheated by using [mwcard=FWQ01] Dancing Scimitar[/mwcard] to tag orbs in a couple of instances (although probably wouldn't have affected the outcomes), my spell book has converged on something like this:

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Skeletal Domination[/spellbookname]
[mage]Darkfenne Necromancer[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWBG1A05]1 x  V'Tarrian Energy Wave[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNJ01]1 x  Altar of Skulls[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1J01]1 x  Altar of the Iron Guard[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ04]1 x  Graveyard[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j11]1 x  Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j18]2 x  Poison Gas Cloud[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j22]2 x  Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]5 x  Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNC01]1 x  Acolyte of the Bog Queen[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c08]2 x  Darkfenne Bat[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC02]2 x  Deathfang[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c23]1 x  Malacoda[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC07]1 x  Mort[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC13]1 x  Skeletal Archer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC15]6 x  Skeletal Minion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c32]2 x  Skeletal Sentry[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1e20]1 x  Harmonize[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e27]1 x  Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1E02]2 x  Plagued[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x  Rust[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNQ02]1 x  Death Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q06]1 x  Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q07]1 x  Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q18]1 x  Mage Staff[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i02]1 x  Battle Fury[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]1 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]1 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI01]1 x  Drain Soul[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i10]2 x  Evade[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]1 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI04]1 x  Force Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI05]1 x  Mass Sleep[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI03]1 x  Reassemble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]2 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI05]1 x  Unholy Resurgence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI10]1 x  Whirling Strike[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

* Note: We've banned [mwcard=MWBG1J05] Galaxxus[/mwcard].  If it is legal, it replaces one of the Poison Gas Clouds.

In previous iterations of the book, I've included [mwcard=FWA02] Force Hammer[/mwcard] (although less important with Galaxxus out of the picture), [mwcard=DNQ10] Meditation Amulet[/mwcard] (might come back), [mwcard=MW1Q19] Mage Wand[/mwcard] (never used, even though it seems like a good idea considering so many "one-of" Incantations), [mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ04] Armory[/mwcard] (can never justify 10 mana / 6 sbp for it, even though it looks so good on paper), [mwcard=MW1E22] Hellfire Trap[/mwcard] (super cheap at only 1 sbp, and others have used it to great effect), [mwcard=MWBG1E01] Astral Anchor[/mwcard] (haven't really needed it), and [mwcard=MWBG1J02] Gravikor[/mwcard] (found other ways to deal with Flying, and/or have benefited from other players casting Gravikor, generally in-school (Warlord)).