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Author Topic: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge  (Read 9460 times)

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Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« on: February 09, 2016, 09:20:16 AM »
Card of the Week #2

Battle Forge

This week, we are going to be discussing a staple In the Mage Wars universe, a card that has been used since the games release and will continue to be used ad nauseam. The card, of course, is Battle Forge. Now, why is this card so popular? Why are there so many books that use this card specifically as an opening? Today on Card of the Week, let’s dive in into the fiery hotness (redundant is redundant) that is Battle Forge.

So, let’s start by talking about the card itself. You could be the new guy that isn’t as familiar with the cards, and that’s totally OK. That’s what we are here for, to fuel that addiction to the full throttle excitement that is Mage Wars. Battle Forge is a fire/war conjuration that costs 8 to cast,  has four armor, 6 life, and 1 channeling. It’s got this channeling because it is… a SPAWNPOINT. And not just your garden variety, run of the mill Pentagram. No, this little guy drops equipment on the regular i.e. every round. Cheap spawnpoint? Great! Buy why?
Spawnpoints are wonderful for one main reason: Action advantage. Without spawnpoints, the Mage is able to take two casting actions a round. This isn’t bad, but on average, only allows for 20-40 cards to be cast a game, with 20 rounds being the high end of most games today. This may seem like a lot, but let’s think about this. Your opponent doesn’t have a spawnpoint, you do. You deploy a piece of equipment every round. Now, instead of 20-40, you’re getting 30-60 casts per game. This is a vast advantage over the opponent. Now, of course you probably won’t have that many pieces of equipment in your spellbook, but the example does leave behind the thought that spawnpoints are a lot more powerful than on the face of things. But enough about just spawnpoints in general… let’s get back to the Forge of Doom. Or Battle Forge. What have you.

The reason Battle Forge is just so powerful is that is so incredibly versatile. No, seriously. There isn’t a mage to date that hasn’t made good use of Battle Forge at some point. The main reason for this is that there is a wealth of equipment to choose from. In fact, the one thing that all books have in common, if anything, is that they all have equipment in some amount. It’s when your book gets to that critical mass of about 8 pieces of equipment that one starts to think about Battle Forge. The reason the low end is 8 is because that’s how pieces of equipment the Battle Forge needs to produce to  break even. I’m ignoring the idea that Battle Forge can sit and gain mana over multiple rounds as that really ruins that advantage you have of having a spawnpoint. There are different thought processes about this of course, but if you simply wanted a higher channeling, there are much cheaper options to do so. The reason it is played so much is so we can have extra actions during the critical building moments of the game.

Battle Forge is also extremely prominent because it complements two strategies with extreme effectiveness. Aggressive, solo mage or big buddy builds LOVE BF because they can cast all of the equipment they need to beat face quickly so that they can go on the offensive. It is the same reasoning that turtling loves BF so much. In addition, control builds can use BF to hand pick the defenses they need each round without planning it or spending the action. Ever squandered a planned force push by deploying an eagleclaw boots? Thems the beats.
I feel like I should point out that Battle Forge also has some really interesting possibilities. For example, you can switch out wands, effectively changing the spellbound spell, without wasting the quick action. And getting additional action advantage OVER the already wonderful advantage inherent in spawnpoints? I’ll take it. Or, running 3 wispwillow amulets and a mana flower instead of 2 mana flowers? Paying 1 mana for a 6 round channeler with a Harmed up Battle Forge is just so sexy.

There are some weaknesses of the Battle Forge, however. The first, and the most damning is the mana cost of using BF. It’s not cheap. You can mitigate that by using cheap equipment, but the better equipment is more expensive but also worth having. If you are going to play with Battle Forge, you are going to need to budget your mana for the first half of the game. The other factor that can be pretty harmful against the BF is that it’s really easy to tech and kill it. Surging wave rolls for a million against it, is cheap in spellbook points, and is cheap to cast. And there isn’t really a way to protect BF from it! You can cast a creature with intercept, but chances are you won’t have that much mana to work with anyways. You can cast a wall, but again, this is mana intensive and doesn’t really defend the BF while at the same time limiting its range. The best way to defend against BF rush is to take advantage of them attacking your weak point and attack theirs. The only time BF rush is effective is if it’s done extremely early on. After about 3 rounds, the advantage of BF is done, and there is time better spent doing something else. So, if it’s early like it should be, it is easily telegraphed. Moving to NC after BF is cast is a hard tell that they will be surging next round. Take advantage of that knowledge. Beat their face in, or just capitalize on their lack of investment on the board. You will be having a lot more mana to work with, so get some of those creatures out, tanglevine them after the wave, and smash face. Punish them with your knowledge of their plan. In essence, if your BF becomes a target, you will know. Use that.

A question I often see come up and a common mistake newer players will make is the placement of Battle Forge. It’s pretty easy, actually. Don’t place it in the center zone. Force the opponent to make it over to your side to attack your engine. Don’t play it out there in the open unless you have a huge reason to do that. This greediness is okay against newer players, but veterans of the game will punish that greediness with a vengeance. Don’t get in that habit. So, that leaves three zones you can cast BF in. The starting zone, the zone directly above you and the zone directly to your left. What this comes down to is the strategy you have. If you are aggressive, to the left of you is best because them attacking it, at best, puts them 2 zones away from your starting zone. As well, your effective BF casting range will put you at most 2 zones away from the opponent. Perfect level 2 spell range. If you are slower build, directly above you is a better play because your effective range covers your entire half of the board and the NC of the opponents side of the board, allowing you to build your engine without having to worry about getting in the opponent’s line of fire.

The point I want to touch on before we close here is a question that was asked on the forums and brought up a few interesting possibilities to my mind. The question was, should you include 2 Battle Forges in your book, ever? And right now, we are going to ignore the SB cost of having two BF in your book because that is irrelevant. Would you include two Battle Forges in your book if you could? It’s non unique, so it’s fine. Something like turn 1 Battle Forge, Battle Forge? I think this is an incredibly entertaining idea and I would love to see a book that could make it work. I think DWL or JBM would be in the best position to make this work as the JBM has the ability to start hitting fast and hard, and the DWL can manipulate equipment pretty much at will. You would also need something like 16 pieces of equipment to make even limited use of your BF? That’s a little much, even for me. Then again, if I had the ability to switch equipment at the beginning of the round, I would totally do so if I could afford it. You would also need an effect 10-11 channelling, which is definitely possible for the cheap with the advent of Wispwillow amulet.

So, to kind of close things up here, Battle Forge is an incredibly versatile conjuration that can be used in any number of ways. In addition, this card is STILL being explored, even though it’s a core set card! It’s a card that constantly gives me new ideas and possibilities, and plenty of books to build around! So, pull out those cherished Battle Forges, and let’s try something new with this Card of the Week.
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Ronor

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 09:43:07 AM »

I really don’t know how to deal with my opponent’s Battle Forge.

You can (mostly) remove it with two Surging Waves. But you have to spend 10 Mana and 2 Actions on it, whereas your Opponent only spent 8 Mana and 1 Action. He also generated at least 1 Mana and 1 Action with it, so you're always on the losing side...

Of course destroying your opponents whole strategy is very strong. But you have to change your own opening Strategie as well by doing it. So it never feels too strong to me.

I started to not include any surging waves in some of my spellbooks and just try to ignore the Battle Forge. By the time I can destroy it without disturbing my own opening, my opponent already used it about 3 times. So he already has his most important stuff equipped.

When I plan on destroying a Battle Forge I never know if I want to prepare 2 Surging Waves in the same turn. The sooner you destroy it the better, but if the first wave already kills it you waste an action. I don't like to do this in the early game. If you only prepare one and the other one next turn, you give your opponent another mana and action of it. Not too good either.

How do you deal with your opponent’s Battle Forge?




sIKE

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 09:49:37 AM »
A cheap Wall between the BF and the Mage works well most of the time.
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Biblofilter

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 09:55:25 AM »
Dude keep this series comming, its awesome!

Im also a big fan of Battleforge and play 1 or 2 if almost every deck.

Its hard to disagree with you on the usefullness of Battle Forge, but i found something very i mildly disagree.

A question I often see come up and a common mistake newer players will make is the placement of Battle Forge. It’s pretty easy, actually. Don’t place it in the center zone..


If your playing vs a turtling mage who Places his/her Battleforge in the starting zone and your are a "punchmage" you will be at a big disadvantage if the fight goes on out of range of your Battleforge and in range of his/hers.

Other than that it might not be that bad to have him use 2 actions and more mana than you to destroy Battleforge as Ronor already mentioned.


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Mystery

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 10:03:08 AM »
depends on my strategy, if I run the new DOT strategies, I just ignor it. I'm even fine with investing 2 surging waves in strategies where it would hurt if he can armor up easily. Maybe if I'm agressive I can use a creatures attack. If I build a deck when I want to destroy it, i usually use 1 wave and one geyser (which i have included against burns anyway).

If battle forge is a problem for you and you invest 10mana and 2 actions vs 8 mana an action (-1 mana and 1action) so just 7 mana, I'm still ok with that, if I dispel a ghoul rot right the next turn same mana same action, but 2damage, so thats also fine, there should be some benefit of any investment even if answered fast. Its not on the losing side as he might calculated with it and needed it, etc.

Battle forge is far less durable than other conjurations, it has this weakness of water. It comes down to if I have to reduce the action advantage or want to end it earlier. If you know the oponent brings out tons of equipment and armor one round of killing the forge instead of attacking the tank mage and then work with it...
If you have good economy yourself, get him to move to you and out of his forge range, or wall off.

Question is also what is your opening, if battleforge is a problem for your strategy you have to adjust your opening so you can deal with the battleforge, if you really need to get rid of it.

It also requires to read what the oponent wants out of his bf, maybe he needs it or he excepts or even wants you to use two surging waves to kill it, getting ahead by 2 actions and 3mana.


i'm also not sure about placement, sometimes i have really placed it FC to want my oponent attack it too

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 11:10:52 AM »
You know, that brings up a valid point. Goading the opponent to attack BF is a valid strategy if you are okay with being out those points and mana. I think this would be something useful to do against a book that naturally wants to turtle, as I think was previously mentioned. Forcing them from cover is a good way to get the jump on them. I just might have to build a warlord around that. Baiting with a BF.

I like it.

Part of the reason I write these is because I love to hear more thoughts and ideas around cards that many of us have preconceived notions about. It's by far some of the most interesting discussion I've had in a while.
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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 11:11:18 AM »
I keep my battle forge away from the center anymore. If my opponent wants to take it out, they need to get closer to my starting corner. To me, it's not worth leaving BF out in the open. I understand the action advantage I would receive if my opponent took out the BF, but the action advantage I get for keeping it is much better. Especially early in a match.
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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 11:12:25 AM »
I keep my battle forge away from the center anymore. If my opponent wants to take it out, they need to get closer to my starting corner. To me, it's not worth leaving BF out in the open. I understand the action advantage I would receive if my opponent took out the BF, but the action advantage I get for keeping it is much better. Especially early in a match.

And this is where my thought process was while writing this up. I see the other side though and it's definitely an interesting play.
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Mystery

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 11:34:26 AM »
I keep my battle forge away from the center anymore. If my opponent wants to take it out, they need to get closer to my starting corner. To me, it's not worth leaving BF out in the open. I understand the action advantage I would receive if my opponent took out the BF, but the action advantage I get for keeping it is much better. Especially early in a match.

And this is where my thought process was while writing this up. I see the other side though and it's definitely an interesting play.

the point is, as mentioned he has to do it early to get a huge benefit, and even though i get the actions out and as mentioned by ronor, it screws with their plan, they cant invest in something they wanted etc.. I'm not writing kill the BF, but I have sometimes not that much of a problem if it is killed so i dont have to play it defensive. And secondly not everyone has those water spells

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 03:02:11 PM »
If we are running 2 Battle Forges, putting the second one in our starting zone might get our opponent to regret he moved forward and spend ~2 Surging Waves :)

Vs a turtling tanking Necro we can´t ignore his Battleforge if we are running a Dot strategy, can we? He might even build up a decent offence if we let him.

Besides i´d like to deny easy access to wands/wand swapping.
Wand of Healing, Dispel Wand and Mage Wand(s) are pretty nice vs a Dot strategy.
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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2016, 05:41:27 PM »
I mostly don't ever play Battle Forge anymore. My main opponent builds up melee attacks with enchantments and his own low mana cost equipment such that, by the time I can get 2-3 pieces of equipment out of the Forge (even cast in my starting zone on turn 1), he's punched it to death in one round. No mana spent... one action... seriously.

It is a mild distraction and delays his attack on anything more important (like my Mage), but I am at a huge disadvantage in terms of mana once he kills it.
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silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2016, 10:14:56 PM »
I gotta admit Battle Forge was a major factor in me getting a tournament win tonight with my Anvil Throne Warlord. I was able to keep it defended and it paid off in spades. I'm always a fan.
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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2016, 05:29:29 AM »
I mostly don't ever play Battle Forge anymore. My main opponent builds up melee attacks with enchantments and his own low mana cost equipment such that, by the time I can get 2-3 pieces of equipment out of the Forge (even cast in my starting zone on turn 1), he's punched it to death in one round. No mana spent... one action... seriously.

It is a mild distraction and delays his attack on anything more important (like my Mage), but I am at a huge disadvantage in terms of mana once he kills it.

I guess a response to a starting zone Battle Forge could be:
1) Cheetah Speed + (double move) Mage Staff or Morning Star
2) Bear Strength + (move) Lion Savagery
3) Wolf Fury + (double move) attack, with a Teleport planned to prevent getting tripped up by Tanglevine/Force Hold/Spiked Pit/Stumble etc.

Don't know if I'd say that's "No mana spent... one action... seriously..." though.

Besides, you could Guard with your Mage (or summon a couple creatures) - unless he also has time for Mongoose Agility. And/or you could cast a wall that blocks line of site and passage.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 10:25:42 AM by iNano78 »
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Brian VanAlstyne

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2016, 12:01:18 PM »
Has anyone made a double deployment type opening work with a Forge and a Lair/Temple type?

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Re: Card of the Week #2: Battle Forge
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2016, 01:15:11 PM »
Has anyone made a double deployment type opening work with a Forge and a Lair/Temple type?

In my experience this is very slow and requires meditation amulet so you are also a sitting duck for whatever the opponent is doing.  However, transitioning from Libro Mortuus(or similar) to Battleforge later in the game is doable.
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