Can you guard a sslak?

[Sailor Vulcan]

Can you guard a sslak? Not literally. What I mean is that if you have a creature guarding the zone, do you have to melee attack that creature before meleeing the sslak? According to the rules supplement, guards, "guard the zone" and you cannot melee attack creatures without guard markers if there are creatures with guard markers in the zone.

But sslaks don't guard the zone, they guard the orbs. So you can't attack any v'tar orbs in the same zone as the sslak while it's guarding, and the sslaks are always guarding. So sslaks don't guard the zone, so you could attack a creature other than the sslak in the same zone as a guarding sslak (if it's a neutral sslak anyways), but if there is another guarding creature, they guard the zone, not just the orb, whcih means you would have to melee attack that guard first before you can attack the sslak, right?

Since sslaks only guard the orb but other creatures guard the zone...

Just want to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly.

[Zuberi]

The rule is that you can't attack an orb while a neutral sslak guardian is still alive in the zone with the orb, regardless of whether or not the sslak is currently guarding. In addition to that, the neutral sslak guardian receives a guard marker each upkeep phase. Reference page 8 of the Domination Rule Book. This guard marker bestows the same benefits on the neutral sslak as it does any other creature, meaning it prevents you from attacking other objects within the zone and it provides the creature's quick attacks with the counterstrike trait. If your opponent also had a guard in the zone, you would be free to choose which guard to attack.

I can't find it in any of the rule books other than the Academy book, which doesn't really apply to Domination, but I remember talking with Laddinfance about guards only protecting friendly objects. That way in a free for all game, you could ignore one opponent's guards if you were attacking a different opponent and people couldn't team up and protect each other, or accidentally protect each other when they just wanted to defend themselves. This rule seems to have made it into Academy, and even though I can't find it anywhere for Arena currently, I would recommend using it in Arena as well.

If you do follow that rule, then neutral sslak's on guard do not ever protect your opponent's creatures, and your opponent's guards do not ever protect a neutral sslak. If there was only the neutral guard, you could choose to either attack it or to attack any opposing creatures in the zone. If there was only an opposing guard (the neutral sslak having already been hit once this round) then you could either attack the guard or attack the neutral sslak. You could not attack any of your opponent's other creatures though, since they have a friendly guard. If there was both a neutral and an opposing guard, then you would still be able to choose which to attack as mentioned previously.

I hope this helps.

[sIKE]

This makes a lot of sense, but would Sslaks being an "enemy creature" and your opponents creatures (and himself) being "enemy creatures" interact in any way with Guards?

I was not able to work that detail out...

Protect the Zone: If there is an enemy guard (a creature with a guard marker) in a zone, then you cannot melee
attack any object in that zone other than enemy guards. This condition is checked when the attack is declared.

[Zuberi]

Strictly by the rules as written for Arena game play, any enemy guards would prevent you from attacking any other objects (other than yourself or objects attached to yourself). So a neutral sslak on guard would prevent you from attacking your opponent's creatures in that zone (and them from attacking yours), and an opponent's guard would prevent you from attacking a non-guarding neutral sslak. In the case of multiple guards, you could attack any of the guards even if they were controlled by different players (or some were neutral).

However, this doesn't make a lot of sense and I've discussed it with Laddinfance before. The solution of guards only protecting objects friendly to the guard seems to have made it into the Academy rules in the section for FFA Multiplayer games, but I have failed to find an update for Arena rules that corresponds. Regardless, I would recommend playing by this rule in Arena.

In which case, a neutral sslak on guard would not prevent you from attacking your opponent's objects and an opposing guard would not prevent you from attacking the neutral sslak. They may all be enemies to you, but they are also enemies to each other and do not protect each other. It is still a little unclear, however, as to whether or not a neutral sslak on guard would prevent you from attacking a non-guarding neutral sslak, in cases where two neutral sslak's share a zone, and this situation would also need a judgement. I would personally rule that all neutral objects are friendly to one another, and thus do protect one another when on guard, but others may decide differently.

[sIKE]

Guardians are not "neutral", at one point in playtesting they were, but in the released Domination rules you will find:

V’Tar Orb guardians are not controlled by any Mage and do not have an action marker or an Action Phase. They are treated as “enemies” by all players and creatures in the game.

Which circles back around to my thoughts on guarding and not having a clear thought on all of this....

I concur with what you have said though, but I know you are a nuts and bolts kind of guy when it comes to rules....

[ringkichard]

My impression was always that the sslak was stepping forward to take the hit while it had the guard marker. A guard marker isn't always a good thing to have. (There was a point in time where Defend could be played on enemy creatures. It was unintentionally hilarious.) If you want to guard a sslak, you need to get the Guard marker off of it. Turn to Stone, would be overkill....

[Zuberi]

Guardians are not "neutral", at one point in playtesting they were, but in the released Domination rules you will find:

V’Tar Orb guardians are not controlled by any Mage and do not have an action marker or an Action Phase. They are treated as “enemies” by all players and creatures in the game.

Which circles back around to my thoughts on guarding and not having a clear thought on all of this....

I concur with what you have said though, but I know you are a nuts and bolts kind of guy when it comes to rules....

Truth. I apologize for my imprecise language. I was using the term "neutral" to refer to the fact that they weren't controlled by either player, because a sslak controlled by your opponent isn't what we're discussing. They are definitely treated as an enemy creature, but they are also your opponent's enemy. Which is why I feel it is weird for them to protect your opponent's objects and prefer the Academy guarding rules.

[Sailor Vulcan]

turn to stone! oh wow. i didn't think of that.


The reason I was asking is that I have figured out how to play domination defensively. Rather than trying to get control of as many orbs as possible, get control of ONE orb and prevent your opponent from getting the others until it's too late. I made a priestess that plays like this. It's really fun, and people don't expect it. Haven't won with it yet though, but I only just made it the other day so it's still in testing.

[ringkichard]

Blended strategy might work? Get *some* orbs while disrupting your opponent with secret tech. Agro-control style.

[Sailor Vulcan]

Blended strategy might work? Get *some* orbs while disrupting your opponent with secret tech. Agro-control style.

Obviously how many orbs you need depends on the map, and how viable a defensive play style is also depends on the map. I think Path of War is the most balanced for 1v1, if not the only truly balanced map for 1v1 that currently exists. Defensive play probably won't work on Blasted Lands though. That map is too big, and there are too many sslaks to prevent your opponent from getting some orbs.

Also, I think I've been playing her wrong. On path of war, I need to destroy the closest sslak and gets its orb, then summon galaxxus, prevent opponent from getting any more than one orb and destroy their galaxxus if they summon one. This means I'll only have to protect two sslaks, rather than 3. Maybe turn to stone and bull endurance on each of them. Priestess might not be the best Mage for this then, she relies too much on daze rolls. Probably earth wizard would be best for this.

[Erebus]

I had success dropping a Cervere with Lion Savagery on Turn One, blitzing my first orb and dropping a Gallaxus while adding some more enchants to my panther, and then disrupting my Druid opponent from getting either of his first orbs for the majority of the game. If you have one really fast point of aggression that just gets right on top of them, it can often force them into much slower orb accumulation. It also gives you a bunch of uninterrupted actions and time to cast more large creatures! I'm really interested into how much pressure I'll be able to apply when I Divine Intervention a Bridge Troll with Nullify onto their face turn 2!