Holy Avenger and Mind Control

[sIKE]

If my creature that is a Holy Avenger is Mind Controlled, is he still "Friendly" to my side?

[lettucemode]

I'd say no, since your opponent now controls him, and any creatures your opponent controls are non-friendly by definition.

I'd also say that since he becomes non-friendly, he's no longer a legal target for Holy Avenger and loses the token. Similar to the way trying to Transfuse an enchantment onto a non-legal target destroys the enchantment.

[sIKE]

I would not think that Mind Control would remove Holy Avenger. It is an additional Mana Cost when the creature is summoned and is a part of the creature. The question is by control this creature, does it make him un-friendly. I am thinking this is more against his will and he is being forced to do what he normally wouldn't...

[Kharhaz]

I'd also say that since he becomes non-friendly, he's no longer a legal target for Holy Avenger and loses the token. Similar to the way trying to Transfuse an enchantment onto a non-legal target destroys the enchantment.

Negative.

Mind controlling a BM's pet does not remove the pet token. In fact the pet still gets to add the +1 melee to hit his own master

[baronzaltor]

I dont know for sure if this is the intent.. but by a literal rules call  by the wording "friendly" and "opponent" stays relative to the Priest.

The Holy Avenger token doesn't confer that ability description to the creature.  All the creature gains is "Life +5"  The rest of the ability speaks from the Priests perspective in terms of "friendly" and "opponent".   

The Holy Avenger ability is not keyed to the token, its an ability of the Priest himself.  So unless it says "the creature gains X"  its talking about the Priest.

So, the Avenger has +5 Health, and it will gain Melee +2 and +1 Pierce anytime it attacks an enemy of the Priest who damaged one of the Priests Creatures or Holy Conjurations.

As pointed out in other wacky Mind Control+Pet effects,  a Mind Controlled Blood Reaper will still heal The Warlock who made it even if its attacking that same Warlock.  And Beastmaster Pets still get Melee+1 for sharing a zone with his creator..even when attacking him.

[Shad0w]

So are you all good or do you need me to reply.

[sIKE]

Clarity still escapes me.....

[lettucemode]

I'm good. A mind-controlled Holy Avenger keeps the token and all associated benefits but is no longer considered "friendly" to the Priest.

[sIKE]

I'm good. A mind-controlled Holy Avenger keeps the token and all associated benefits but is no longer considered "friendly" to the Priest.

Yes the Mind Controlled creature is not Friendly to the Priest but does not gain the +2 Melee +1 Piercing on Creatures Friendly to the Priest if they damage an opposing mages creatures.

[Kharhaz]

I'm good. A mind-controlled Holy Avenger keeps the token and all associated benefits but is no longer considered "friendly" to the Priest.

Yes the Mind Controlled creature is not Friendly to the Priest but does not gain the +2 Melee +1 Piercing on Creatures Friendly to the Priest if they damage an opposing mages creatures.

Yes but to strecth the concept"

forcemaster targets an enemy Knight of westlock, who is a holy avenger, and mind controls him

forcemaster uses the knight of westlock to wake up a thoughtspore who is asleep but attacked a temple earlier in the round.

knight of westlock adds the holy avenger bonus to that wakeup call, Good morning!


The ability is still on the knight of westlock, as any effect granted from that ability by the priest. Only the control of the creature has changed. All of the ability triggers are still there, just much harder to use.......

[lettucemode]

I'm good. A mind-controlled Holy Avenger keeps the token and all associated benefits but is no longer considered "friendly" to the Priest.

Yes the Mind Controlled creature is not Friendly to the Priest but does not gain the +2 Melee +1 Piercing on Creatures Friendly to the Priest if they damage an opposing mages creatures.

Agree.

[Shad0w]

Ok so do we need clarity?

[sIKE]

Everything is crystal now....