There's a small adjustment that would help a "dreaming type" nightmare: permit it to treat Daze like it does Sleep. That would give the nightmare a longer window of opportunity with living creatures (especially against e.g. Idol of Pestilence), and open opportunities for the Forcemaster's Daze causing Force attacks (and other Daze causing spells).

You could also allow it to inflict sleep on non-mage creatures, similar to what I did in my version. That way, there is a chance that when it attacks its target will remain asleep.

I see. The current wording doesn't appear to cover spells that target the Arena or spells cast by Spawnpoints or Familiars. You may need to adjust the wording to include these. Also is the intended wording "cast a spell" or "cast and resolve a spell"?

The ability is not intended to apply to arena spells or spawnpoints/familiars; I wanted to keep it as simple as possible. "cast a spell" is correct, as the wording has the premonition markers (or mana) used as an additional cost of casting that spell.

Overall it feels like it gives the opponent too much control over the Prophets ability to see the future. I would consider some effect that is more straightforward and identifies some type of information about the future that the opponent must reveal. For example, the opponent must declare what spell types were readied during the planning phase. E.g. a Conjuration and an Enchantment. This would be faster to execute each round then placing markers or showing specific cards.

This isn't the entirety of the prophet's ability to see the future, but just an aspect. In this case, the prophet has feelings about the locations where things are going to happen. I agree that knowing what spell types/spells were readied is another excellent future sight power, but that is covered by the Crystal Ball. Placing markers should not take too much time. The prophet's abilities are strongly reflected in his Prophet only cards, namely:

Foresight (the most versatile spell in the game)
Staff of Clairvoyance (the prescient trait is much more powerful on a mage than on a creature since mages can spells)
Crystal Ball (tells you exactly what the enemy mage has prepared)
The Book of Prophecy (makes the prophet's innate premonitions much more binding and prevents the "place premonitions everywhere" tactic)

Another approach is to think about the benefit the Prophet might receive from knowing pieces of the future and design the ability for those effects. For example a set of markers like the Anvil Throne Warlord except each one has a hidden effect. E.g. Avoid Attack, Counter Spell, Take Initiative, etc.

That is a great idea that I may have to incorporate into a card or two. Much like the Anvil Throne Warlord's ability, it would require a separate explanation in the rulebook if used on the prophet's card.

How was it decided that this would be an Arcane trained mage? The ability to see the future seems more appropriate to the Mind school.

Arcane seemed like a better fit to me. I know precognitive powers are often associated with psychic 'flavors', but the predicting the future feels more like pure magic than flavored magic to me; seeing the future has nothing to do with manipulating or reading minds, and windows in time (and things like crystal balls) just seem to fit more in the pure arcane school. Somebody else (can't remember who at the moment) suggested that the holy school might also be a good fit, given the status of prophets in religions; I don't really see him as that sort of prophet, though. This is mostly just a personal flavor preference on my part.

If he were in the mind school, of course, some thought would need to be given to the types of creatures he would have, since any mind creatures would be usable by the forcemasters.

It might also be an interesting design to give the Prophet training in all schools but only to certain levels. E.g. level 2 in all schools. This would reflect the ability to see the future and have an appropriate set of counter cards in the Prophets spellbook at the start of the battle.

I feel that this is better accomplished through the Foresight spell. Prophets strike me as specialists (he should probably have an anti-training). I see what you are going for, though. Thanks for the suggestions; if I make another iteration I might incorporate some of them.

Just noticed this post; sprz already showed me the cards, and I was quite impressed with the quality.

It looks like some clarification on the premonition ability is desired:

The intent of Premonition is to force your opponent to tell you what they are going to do. If they don't place enough premonition tokens, they face a mana penalty, and if they place too many, they give you free mana. They therefore have an incentive to follow their indicated plans as clearly as possible. The ability is made even nastier with the book of prophecy, which inflicts damage on your opponent for each unfulfilled premonition.

Premonition needs tightening up. As it stands, the opponent is almost certain to just put 2 in each zone. Better to give your opponent 1 mana than give away your plans or risk having to pay the mana penalty. Also, it needs clarification on when it happens during the planing phase. Can either mage change their cards after the premonition markers are down? Can more markers be placed?

Your opponent can certainly do that, though this turns the prophet's ability into 11 channeling, which is formidable in its own right. The Book of Prophecy also makes this strategy extremely dangerous (borderline suicidal, in fact)  since the Prophet could cast the book after you have placed the premonitions for the round (fancy taking 24 direct damage at once?)

Good point about the timing. Should probably be moved to Upkeep to avoid timing issues.

premonition rework and reword:
During planning phase, one opponent must attach 2-4 premonition tokens to any zones or objects. Every time that opponent targets something, he must either pay one mana or remove one premonition token attached to the target or it's zone. Prophet gains one mana whenever one of his premonition tokens is removed. At the end of the round remove all premonition tokens.

(reduce Prophet channelling by 2.)

i doubt people love this, but its what i came up with.

I don't...love it. Not sure I see the advantage over the current version. It puts the prophet at a severe mana disadvantage, since his opponent has control over the tokens and he doesn't even gain the mana until the tokens are used up (contrasted with channeling at the start of the round). I would prefer to have a max of 1 on the mana gain and no max on the premonition tokens.


I am open to rewording as long as it is true to the intent of the ability. The challenge with this card was how to create mechanics that represent seeing the future.

Are you asking Arcane Wonders if you can pay them to get custom made physical cards, or are you asking if you can pay some third party card-printing service to do it?

In the first case, I doubt that Arcane Wonders is willing to do single, custom print runs for fans due to costs and overall busyness of employees (they are a pretty small company).

In the second case, you probably don't need permission from AW to do that. I am fine with you using my images, and everything else is stuff that you made.

I've been really looking forward to your post on this. I really love the write up. I think you are spot on that Samara tree tends to force players into early aggressive actions, your Gargoyle Sentry is perfect for this. Did you choose Gargoyle over Guardian because of Turn 2? It looks like your Gargoyle is only meant to survive until your build is in full swing, I really like this!

Yes, I chose the gargoyle because it is 1 mana cheaper. That opens up many options that are not possible with the Guardian Angel. As you say, the angel's staying power is not necessary because by the time the sentry dies, your opponent will have other problems to worry about.

Tataree - I like the analysis. Do you find yourself using the action list more? It seems like pollinating a pod with 2+ mana is very specific. How often have you followed your second list? How often have your opponents gone after your Tataree?

Once the enemy has closed the distance and is attacking, I find that I almost always value actions over additional mana (of course, you get the mana either way, but if you were only planning to bloom one pod anyway, you may be better served by pollinating a 2+ pod). So I tend to follow list #2.

I only played the one game (which I realize is hardly a representative sample size), and my opponent did not go after Tataree at all (possibly because he was busy having his face eaten off by a raptor vine). I may try it out on OCTGN soon, but unfortunately I don't get much time for games these days.

I noticed you don't have any chest armor. Would a bearskin help you at all against early aggression?

It might. I think I would rather add Leather Boots/Gloves though; with the stockpiled actions from the pods, I generally have an abundance of actions but a lack of mana later on in the game, so cheap spells are more efficient. I suppose the trouble is that I can't wear Leather Boots and Eagleclaw Boots at the same time. The cheap equipment cards in Academy (pretty sure I am not violating the NDA here) should help this build quite a bit in this area.

Would you consider adding a Lion Savagery for your Cervere? I find it better then Bear Strength for him.

Good point. Since I am planning to give the book a larger focus on enchantments next time, I will certainly include a copy. The Bear Strength is actually intended for the Druid, who makes a strong attacker in this build.

I'm curious on your decision for 2 Vine Snappers. I know they are great creatures, but do you find one is left out of the action a lot? Are you comboing them with the Thronlashers?

They can combo with Thornlashers. They make decent guards (although, as it turns out, Raptor Vines are even more AMAZING guards due to their vampiricism). The main benefit is how cheap they are. I use the teleports to re-position them. Usually, you won't have to move them very much because your opponent doesn't want to retreat (because of the pods). It is possible that I would be better served with just 1.

I really like the build and want to try it out! I hope you don't mind me copying it

I would love it if you would try it out. I do request that you let me know how the game goes, so I can make appropriate adjustments. Obviously, I already have some changes that I am planning on making, which I will post in this thread once I have figured them all out.

Thanks for the feedback!

Quote from: MW United on June 26, 2015, 10:52:14 AM

Hey guys

Just a quick question regarding mind control.

The spell reads the target must remain upto 1 zone away from the caster.

The question is what happens if the creature is teleported away from the caster to two or more zones away??

That's not what the card reads. 

[mwcard=FWE07]Mind Control[/mwcard]

The controller of Mind Control must be within 1 zone of Mind Control when it is revealed.  After that, it doesn't matter how far away the creature / Mind Control is from its controller.  As far as I can tell, you could even [mwcard=MW1I01]Banish[/mwcard] the creature and it would come back under the Mind Control controller's control... although one might wonder why you bothered paying the upkeep while it was out of the arena.

To be fair, the wording is a bit ambiguous. This interpretation is the correct one, but I can easily see a case being made for the OP's interpretation (due mostly to the inadvisable use of "and", which can be interpreted to mean that the second clause of the second sentence is not related to the first clause).

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]The Procrastinator[/spellbookname]
[mage]A Druid Spellbook[/mage]
[mage]built by the OCTGN SBB[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]1 x Surging Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNA01]1 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA04]2 x Hurl Boulder[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1A09]1 x Jet Stream[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1J22]3 x Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1W04]1 x Wall of Thorns[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ02]2 x Corrosive Orchid[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ06]1 x Nightshade Lotus[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ08]5 x Seedling Pod[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ09]1 x Samara Tree[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW01]3 x Bloodspine Wall[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ03]1 x Etherian Lifetree[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ10]1 x Stranglevine[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNC21]3 x Thornlasher[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C18]1 x Gorgon Archer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC20]2 x Vine Snapper[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC10]2 x Raptor Vine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC06]1 x Kralathor, The Devourer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC17]1 x Tataree[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKC08]1 x Gargoyle Sentry[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C07]1 x Cervere, The Forest Shadow[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1E09]1 x Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNE01]1 x Barkskin[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E29]1 x Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E23]1 x Jinx[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E36]2 x Rhino Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E01]1 x Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ06]1 x Eagleclaw Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q07]1 x Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q18]1 x Mage Staff[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1I28]2 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI08]3 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI07]3 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I23]2 x Rouse the Beast[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI17]1 x Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI02]2 x Burst of Thorns[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI06]1 x Defend[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI03]1 x Disarm[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]


Opening:

Turn 1 (19): Samara Tree [7] (treebond) + Gargoyle Sentry [11] -> (1)

Turn 2 (11+1): Seedling Pod [3] + Seedling Pod [3] + Tataree [6] -> (0)

Turn 3 (10+1): Seedling Pod [3] + Enchantment [2] + Enchantment [2] -> (5)


Theory

The objective with this deck is to have a viable Samara Tree build. I do not claim that this deck is the most amazing thing since Aviary, but it is capable of holding its own surprisingly well (surprising given the general opinion regarding Samara Tree).

Many people compare Samara Tree to Vine Tree and ask the reasonable question: "Why should I use Samara Tree when Vine Tree does the same thing, only better? It is true that Vine Tree can cast Seedling Pods, and that it has the added advantage of being able to cast vine spells and place an extra vine marker, while the Samara Tree's only obvious advantage is that you can reuse seedling pods. Nonetheless, Samara Tree does have a few advantages compared to Vine Tree:

1. If your deck is built for use of seedling pods, Samara Tree is obviously the better choice. So if you can find a strategy that makes good use of seedling pods, it is superior.

2. Currently, the cheapest interceptor in the game is the Gargoyle Sentry, at 11 mana. If you cast Vine Tree, you will not be able to summon an interceptor until round 2 at the earliest, because Vine Tree costs 9 mana. With Samara Tree (7 mana), it is possible to cast Gargoyle Sentry or Guardian Angel round 1. This is extremely relevant when facing hyperaggressive mages like Johktari and Forcemasters. No matter which tree is chosen, treebonding gives a Druid tremendous defensive capabilities, and Samara Tree enables earlier, stronger protection than Vine Tree does.

3. This is just conjecture, but I suspect the sight of a Samara Tree will inspire aggression in most players. I don't have enough evidence to verify this though. Forcing your opponent to advance sooner than they might otherwise have done can be useful; if they are moving then they have a harder time preparing threats.


Now - why use seedling pods? It is a mistake to think of them as primarily mana generators, though they certainly do become that if left unattended for too long. It is also a mistake to think that the advantage lies in being able to cast any plant, because there are not enough non-vine plants for this to matter. The main benefit of a Seedling Pod is that it lets you postpone your decision about what to cast until you have seen what your opponent is doing - i.e., to Procrastinate. Normally, in the early game actions are at a premium and you have to use them or lose them. Sometimes, you make a choice that later turns out to be ineffective against your opponent's strategy. With a Seedling Pod, you can bank your action and then get it back later, making it easier to react to your opponent (and harder for them to react to you).

It is worth mentioning that the benefits of Procrastinating are strongest in the early-mid game. In the late game, quick reactions become more important. As long as you have your tree cast a Seedling Pod as often as possible, though, you should still be able to react almost as fast as the Vine Tree using the stored actions from previous turns.

Presently, the selection of options to cast with the pod is a bit limited, though there still is enough variety to make Procrastinating beneficial. In the future, as more plant spells are released, this strategy will grow stronger. Each plant is a tool in the Procrastinator's toolbox, to be used when needed.

In Practice:

I tested my Procrastinator build against a slightly modified version of this build earlier today. My opponent's strategy simply consisted of summoning Skeletal Knights and Bridge Trolls (along with equipment and various enchantments) and directly attacking my mage  or (if not available) my other plants. I took heavy damage early on, but then my plants overwhelmed my opponent's army. The game ended with a boulder to the face followed up with a 6-die attack from my (buffed) Druid. I had 4 damage on my Druid at the end due to her spectacular regenerative abilities (via Barkskin).

Some observations:

- Tataree is fantastic. More on how best to use him below.

- I usually do not cast many enchantments, but found myself casting a lot. This build works well with enchantments.

- I only ever had 4 Seedling Pods out at a time. 5 may be overkill, though I might have been able to put out another if my opponent had been less aggro.

- Vine Raptors are amazing guards, especially when enchanted with Rhino Hide

- Vine tokens are great for blocking your opponent's escape, especially since you use them much less.

How to Use Tataree

Here is a simple heuristic you can follow to optimize use of Tataree's ability:

1. Which do you need more: actions or mana?
     If actions, go to 2
     If mana, go to 3

2.  Do the first available action from the following list:
     1. Pollinate a pod with exactly 1 mana.
     2. Pollinate a pod with 2+ mana or the Samara Tree
     3. Pollinate a pod with exactly 0 mana.

3. Do the first available action from the following list:
     1. Pollinate a pod with 2+ mana or the Samara Tree
     2. Pollinate a pod with exactly 1 mana.
     3. Pollinate a pod with exactly 0 mana.

Note: When choosing between pollinating a 2+ mana pod or the Samara Tree, you should pollinate whichever one you think is more likely to cast a spell next round.

Here's the logic:

- If a pod has 1 mana, pollinating it will allow it to bloom on the following round (2+1 from channeling), so this is highest priority if you are in need of actions. In other words, pollinating a 1 mana pod gives you <+1 action> next round, relative to not pollinating anything.
- If a pod has 2+ mana, pollinating it will give you an effective discount if you decide to let it bloom on the following round. Mana soon is better than mana later. <+1 mana>
- Similarly, pollinating the Samara Tree will give you a discount on the next pod you cast. If you think you are more likely to cast a pod than to let a pod bloom, then the tree is a better choice. Usually, you are more likely to want to allow a pod to bloom (unless you are currently Procrastinating). <+1 mana>
- 0 mana pods are the lowest priority because pollinating them does not give you a benefit next round. Never pollinate a 0 mana pod unless you have a really good reason (the rest of your pods are burning with poisoned flames or something) or no other options.

There may of course be occasions where positional considerations make a particular pod more attractive to pollinate than the above would suggest.

Planned changes for the next iteration of this deck

- Remove 1 seedling pod
- Add Enchanter's Ring, 2 rhino hides, and Eagle Wings

Enchantments are encouraged in this build, so an Enchanter's Ring is a good investment. I found myself casting a lot of enchantments (Enchantments are another way to procrastinate, though with less flexibility). Rhino Hide is the number 1 enchantment for plants, as it dramatically improves their survival rate.

Anticipated Questions

Why no Druid's Leaf Ring?
I have found that my Druid on average only personally casts about 2-4 plant spells over the course of the game. Spending 2 mana and one of my precious early-game actions is not worth the measly return.

What is the deal with the Gorgon Archer?
You want to encourage your opponent to rush you, counter-intuitive though it may seem, because of the lack of mobility of your army. Gorgon Archer is quite effective at this, and good at deterring the strategy of sniping you from outside your grove of seedlings. Eagle Wings, which I plan to add, makes the Gorgon dangerous even at 0 range. Plus, she can shoot over Bloodspine walls.

Why Cervere, rather than Grizzly?
Cheaper. Also, you have no shortage of heavy hitters; Cervere provides mobility and elusive attacks to get around guards.


That's it for now. Suggestions, questions, and comments are welcome, of course.