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Messages - ringkichard

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1186
Strategy and Tactics / Re: Beastmaster vs Ranged
« on: April 10, 2013, 12:01:45 PM »
Quote from: "FernandoKL" post=10703
Thank you Red and Ringkichard!

I was just at this moment trying to put a teleport in my BM Spellbook, with some other things. But I'm having (a lot of) trouble with "What-to-remove" to open space for them!!!  :S

But 3 Teleports Ringkichard?!!  :blink:  12 spellbook points?  Can you post your spellbook for me to see what you putted in (and out)!


Up front, I should say that this is a non-standard Beastmaster build. Some of these irregularities will be innovations (I hope!), and some will be errors (I'm sure).

Because of the limitations of the CardGameDB (no forcemaster update) the Force Hammers have been replaced with lightning bolts in this list.

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Mage Wars Deck Builder

Mage:
Beastmaster (Core)


Total Cards: (57)

Total Spellbook Cost: (120)

Attack: (2)
Lightning Bolt (Core) x2 (actually Force Hammer x2)

Conjuration: (0)

Creature: (12)
Bitterwood Fox (Core) x3
Steelclaw Grizzly (Core) x2
Timber Wolf (Core) x2
Valshalla, Lightning Angel (Core) x1
Thunderift Falcon (Core) x3
Fellella, Pixie Familiar (Core) x1

Enchantment: (19)
Agony (Core) x3
Bear Strength (Core) x3
Cheetah Speed (Core) x2
Jinx (Core) x2
Maim Wings (Core) x1
Mongoose Agility (Core) x2
Nullify (Core) x2
Rhino Hide (Core) x2
Vampirism (Core) x2

Equipment: (9)
Elemental Cloak (Core) x1
Enchanter's Ring (Core) x1
Gauntlets of Strength (Core) x1
Leather Boots (Core) x1
Mage Staff (Core) x2
Regrowth Belt (Core) x1
Ring of Beasts (Core) x1
Bearskin (Core) x1

Incantation: (15)
Battle Fury (Core) x3
Dispel (Core) x2
Dissolve (Core) x4
Shift Enchantment (Core) x1
Teleport (Core) x3
Seeking Dispel (Core) x2

Wall: (0)

1187
Strategy and Tactics / Re: Beastmaster vs Ranged
« on: April 09, 2013, 11:22:22 AM »
There's a reason my Beastmaster book has three teleports in it.
The first is to pull in ranged attackers.
The second is to dismiss quicksand.
The third is to send away slow creatures or capture fleeing targets.
I guess that's actually 4 reasons.
Work with me here.

I also use Force Hammer for my attack spell because it can smash up incorporeal problems like poison gas cloud as well as doing a bunch of damage to corporeal conjurations like stone walls and temples.

1188
Spells / Re: Spells you would like to see
« on: April 08, 2013, 12:32:20 AM »
Spells

Leaping Drag - Incantation - corporeal creature
Level 1 war
4 mana - range 0-2.
Until end of turn, when target creature moves from a zone, you may push one corporal enemy creature from that zone toward the target creature.

Art shows a leaping Orc Butcher tackling a Gray Angel that flew too low to the ground. The orc is rushing forward, passing the angel, and he has the Angel's neck in the crook of his arm lariat style. The angel is being overbalanced backward, wings cramped, sword useless.

--

Bull Rush - Enchantment - Living non-flying creature
Level 2 Nature
2 mana cast, 4 mana reveal - range 0-2
When this creature moves from a zone, you may push one corporeal enemy creature without flying in from zone toward this creature.

Art shows the panther Cervere, The Forest Shadow charging a Warlock. Cervere is surrounded by the blue ghostly outline of a bull, head lowered in a charge. In the distant background, the sky is hidden by a large Wall of Thorns.

Reason:
To give melee oriented midrange decks a bit more board control against fast agro decks by dragging their key pieces out of place. Also gives swarm decks the ability to push back against Few Big creature strategies, and brings push out of solely the force school to encourage more tactical board play. These cards also provide alternatives to teleport, which are important to have if a metagame hoser is being developed against that very powerful spell,

Tactical notes:
Fast and elusive creatures love these spells, as noted in the art for Bull Rush. The spells can trigger twice for creatures that can move twice, but note that the pushed creature still hinders. A fast elusive creature will be able to attack after moving twice and all creatures will be able to attack after moving once, unless they are slow.

Fireproof imps can drag enemies through walls of flame (without additional cost), or level 1 foxes can rush enemies into a wall of thorns. Climbing creatures may bash their targets against stone walls. Necropian Vampiress and Blue Gremlin are legal targets for these spells, and they too can do the bash trick.

Charging creatures like the Highland Unicorn can use this spell to gain the charge attack against creatures they share a square with.

Mages can both use and suffer from these attacks, usually with the intent of isolating the target.

While Leaping Drag would allow a goblin to push Adramelech one square, they won't help stall an attack that much; Adramelech will just move back. And no one will be dragging the immovable golems because the spells use the push mechanic.

Balance:

The costs for both cards are low because they require a creature to help push. Bull Rush excludes flyers for balance reasons as well as flavor, to prevent an enchanted falcon from making a circuit and repeatedly pushing things around without a chance of reprisal. Leaping Drag includes flyers because it's less repeatable/abuseable, and the flavor supports it. These spells do give pests a limited bodyguard use, which can be corrected--if required--by adding more text.

1189
League / Tournament Play / Re: Calling all NE/Central PA Mages
« on: April 01, 2013, 10:15:10 PM »
Yeah, we're about 50 minutes from Harrisburg. I just mentioned it because it's the major city between us.

1190
Strategy and Tactics / Re: Dominating Strategies
« on: March 30, 2013, 01:31:48 AM »
Note -- I've been thinking about this for a while, and this seemed like a relevant place to put this.
It's late and I'm gonna post this, but I may very likely come back later and edit it once I'm awake.


It might help to describe strategies by their resource plan re: the three major resources -- damage, actions and manna -- and the types of investments it makes.

Consider Piousflea's Lord of Terror Warlock build. Piousflea calls it a beatdown build in his writeup, but relknes would probably categorize it as a Few Big strategy.

That build spends a lot of actions in the beginning on movement to close the distance to the enemy, while saving up manna. It makes use of Cheetah speed and shift enchantment as cheep action investments with immediate payoff to fuel the initial movement action expenditure.
 
Then it dramatically makes a big manna payment and tries to end the game as soon as possible by efficiently spending all actions and manna on attacks or attack improvements. There are no long term investments in this strategy. All investments must pay off faster than any slower investments the opponent might have made while the Beatdown mage was moving.


I think we should describe this sort of Few Big strategy as:
[ul]
  [li]Near term damage payout[/li]
  [li]Minimal investment of manna or actions in manna generators[/li]
  [li]Efficient investment of actions and high investment of manna in action generators[/li]
  [li]No higher order investments of resources in action generator-generators or mana generator-generators[/li]
[/ul]

I'll explain. In this model, the most basic currency in the game is damage. Above damage are the twin currencies of manna and actions. Above those are manna generators and action generators. Above those are manna generator-generators and action generator-generators and so on. I'll give some examples:
[ul]

  [li]Manna generators are things like Manna Crystals and Manna Flowers. [/li]
  [li]Action generators are usually creatures.[/li]
  [li]Manna generator-generators are more rare. Fella casting harmonize on herself and your mage and your Lair would be an example of a manna generator-generator. [/li]
  [li]Action generator-generators are things like spawn points which can be used to create creatures, which themselves generate actions.[/li]
[/ul]

Note that Fellella is both an action generator and a manna generator as well as a potential manna generator-generator. Goblin Builders are action generators without being manna generators (no channeling stat). They're action generator-generators if they're used to build conjurations that can act (either attack some other action that can be converted to damage), and they could even be action-generator-generator-generators if they could build multiple barracks.  

All this generator-generator-generator talk is getting kind of complicated. Lets talk about these things as a "Order". Damage is a 0 order resource; it's what resources are ultimately converted into. Manna and Actions are 1st order resources; they're the things that are converted into damage. Creatures and manna conjurations are 2nd order resources. They're the things that produce 1st order resources. Spawn points and some familiars are 3rd order resources (Huginn is only a 2nd order resource, and so are the Psy familiars)

Your mage, of course, is the generator-generator-generator-infinity+1. Anything that you invest in comes out of your mage or some other investment your mage made. If some day they print an enchantment that spits out creature spawners, the mage will still be the impetus. Of course, the mage also generates 2 quick actions every turn and a tremendous amount of manna, and needs to be considered an exceptionally powerful 2nd order resource as well as a potential resource at order n+1.

As an aside, Spellbooks are not an investment type resource. It may be best to think of them as order 0, or as a top level n resource, from which all other resource generation comes from, or just as a completely orthogonal resource.  Cards in the spellbook are either depleted or preserved (and very rarely restored) but never generated. If damage is work, and manna and actions are solar and wind sources of renewable power, then spellbooks are a non-renewable fossil fuel like crude oil. Wands are a way to preserve the spellbook resource, so they're maybe a 1st order spellbook resource, too.

Enchantments that deal damage like Magebane or Ghoul Rot would be 1st order resources in this system (if that matters?) on a par with manna or actions. They create damage.

Anyway, why does all this 1st order 2nd order stuff matter? Generally, the higher order an investment is, the more powerful it is, and consequently (because Mage Wars is a well balanced game) the more expensive it is and the longer it takes to pay off. A 15 manna Lair is only going to create damage indirectly through creatures which will create actions, and so is less immediately valuable than a 5 manna Bitterwood Fox. But if you leave a Lair in play long enough it will create lots of Foxes which will create lots and lots of actions which will create lots and lots of damage.

To return to piousflee's Lord of Terror build, he's relying on the initial starting manna and the pre-existing 2nd order resource of the Warlock himself to build a very expensive action generator (Adramelech, Lord of Fire) because Adramelech is also one of the most action efficient damage generators in the game.

This explains why Few Big does so well against Beatdown. Few Big is efficiently more invested in actions than Beatdown (Beatdown hasn't got any action generators except maybe Battle Fury or Whirling Strike on a Mage Wand or Helm of Gothos). Because Few Big has an easy time recovering its investments against Beatdown, it tends to dominate.

As I see it, the reasons Few Big can recover its investments vs Beatdown are

[ul]
  [li]The investments are only modestly larger than the dominated strategy[/li]
  [li]The investments are efficient and take advantage of natural sweet-spots[/li]
  [li]The investments are well targeted[/li]
  [li]Actions are more scarce than manna[/li]
[/ul]

In this case, I mean that Lord of Terror only invests in one action generator, compared to Beatdown's zero investments. Avoiding over-investment is key. Further, the investments LoT makes are in good, powerful cards that are probably at the outer edge of the balance window. And finally, the investments hit the metagame at the right spot. High power flyers are valuable metagame pieces that have the potential to Just Win.

The important reason that high investment strategies don't always beat low investment strategies is that a low investment strategy can trade off its own low order resources for the opponent's high order resources. A creature can kill a spawnpoint. Manna and an action can be used to cast an incantation or attack spell (making that spell a transformed 1st level resource, because it's not going to stick around)  and that spell can have an immediate adverse effect on the opponent's investment. Trading low order resources for high order resources can be great because the high order resources tend to be more expensive (again, because that's how Mage Wars is balanced.)  

Finally, lets look at relknes's categories again:

Quote
conjurations (temples, mana crystals, Mordok's Obelisk, etc.) are dominated by Beatdown
Beatdown is dominated by Few Big
Few Big is dominated by Control
Control is dominated by swarm
Swarm is dominated by conjurations


Some of these interactions are just related to the balance of the different resources, but for example, the reason Control is dominated by Swarm is that Swarm makes a heavy investment in action generators while Control makes a heavy investment in manna Generators, and, in that matchup, actions scale faster than manna.

The control mage starts channeling 10 manna a turn, and gets 2 actions. That's 5 manna/action. 2 Manna flower equivalents and a Gate to Voltari will keep this ratio the same (15/3), or 5 manna flower equivalents will nudge it up to approximately +50%. This costs aprox 25 manna, and between 3 and 5 actions.

The Swarm mage scales much faster because each creature only takes 1 action to summon and pays for itself the next turn. Summoning just a single creature is a +50% increase in actions available.

Against a Big Few strategy, Control can use its lower order resources (actions, order 1) against the opponent's higher order resources (action generators, creatures, order 2) and because the Big Few strategy isn't equipped to take advantage of the superior scaling in creatures vs. manna, the Control player can live long enough to see a return on his or her more powerful investment.

1191
League / Tournament Play / Re: Tourniment Rules
« on: March 27, 2013, 09:23:07 PM »
Part of the way WotC handles this is by tracking warnings and penalties through the DCI number/registration that all players use to register for tournaments. If a player accumulates too many warnings, he or she can be disqualified or sanctioned. This helps prevent the "two free cheats" otherwise inherent in the warning system.  

The way to handle a disagreement about a face down enchantment is to give both players a "disputed playstate" warning and then track those warnings across tournaments. Everyone will get a few, but cheaters will get more. So will sloppy players, but the system will probably help them tighten up their play, so that may be a feature, not a bug.

--
If technical solutions are an option, we might be able to borrow a trick from Warmachine: you can write on gloss card sleeves with a dry erase marker.  Just make a dot of the appropriate color on the back of the enchantment's sleeve: red for attack, purple for incantation, etc.

Alternately, records could be kept on pre-printed pads of paper with pre-printed checkboxes for each enchantment.

--EDIT--
If we're feeling really snazzy, we could pre-print those checkboxes right on the back of the card-sleeves.

1192
League / Tournament Play / Re: Calling all NE/Central PA Mages
« on: March 27, 2013, 08:42:16 PM »
There's a couple of us in the Lancaster area. I wonder if there are any players in Harrisburg?

1193
Rules Discussion / Re: Alright... weird enchantment question.
« on: March 27, 2013, 07:16:21 PM »
This ruling (whichever way it goes) has some interesting outcomes.

For example, I run a Beastmaster deck with three Nullifies and one Decoy. I'll sometimes use the Decoy as a "4th Nullify". My most common opponent also runs a Decoy, and likes to use it to check for Nullifies on my creatures. It's entirely possible that my Beastmaster will end up simultaniously enchanted with two Decoys, both his and mine.    

When my Decoy fails to react to his, and he doesn't reveal his Decoy, we'll both probably realize what happened, but we won't know for sure. My opponent will probably suspect that my enchantment is a Decoy, though, and will want to confirm this by revealing his own Decoy.

Should I have to reveal my own Decoy because I now know that the creature was enchanted with two of the same enchantment? Does it matter that it's only very briefly and that the enchantment is destroyed as soon as it's revealed?

Also, Death Link is another interesting case (in a Dark Mage v Dark Mage mirror match) and it shows how carefully this rule needs to be worded.

For example, if my opponent summons a Necropian Vampiress and enchants it, and if I think the face down enchantment is Death Link, can try to knock off his Death Link by enchanting his creature with my own Death Link and revealing mine before he gets a chance to?

Or, suppose I cast and reveal Death Link on my own creature, and then he casts and reveals Death Link on his Vampiress. Can I use Shift Enchantment to move my Death Link to his Vampiress, destroying his enchantment? I cast it first, and I revealed it first.

There's also some of this in the Holy Mage mirror match with Divine Intervention. If we both Divine Intervention the same creature, the natural thing to do would be to wait the other guy out. He triggers his, then I trigger mine to undo it. If the brief presence of his destroys mine, though, then it's a rush to reveal.

And I really don't want to dig into the timing rules to figure out who gets priority to reveal a Divine Intervention.

Also, this ruling matters when enchanting zones. Either Sacred Ground or Fortified Position might get cast twice on the same zone. If my opponent casts and reveals one of these on a Zone I have similarly enchanted but not yet revealed, do I have to announce and destroy my own enchantment?    

Or my opponent and I might both cast Hellfire Trap or Teleport Trap in the same square. Should triggering one automatically destroy the other?


Not that anyone asked, but my recommendation is to limit the rule to revealed enchantments only. If I'm not playing enchantments with red reveal costs I shouldn't have to keep track of them for forced revelation. The game already requires me to remember and monitor a lot. In a tournament, there's no reason to penalize my opponent just because he forgot to reveal and destroy an enchantment because of a rare corner case in the rules.

If I reveal a duplicate enchantment, mine should get destroyed (his should stay). But I shouldn't be able to use Shift Enchantment or Steal Enchantment as a wrecking ball to try to fish for my opponent's face down spells. It's already powerful enough that I can block them from being revealed until my own enchantment gets destroyed (Dispelled).

1194
Strategy and Tactics / Stupid Mage Wars Tricks
« on: March 26, 2013, 10:56:54 PM »
I had a couple of combos occur to me, and I thought I'd share them with the community. Like the title says, these are stupid. They're amusing, but no one will ever confuse them for an efficient combo.

Hellfire Trap x6 + Teleport Trap x6
In a less balanced game, you'd be able to stack multiple Hellfire Traps in a single zone. Since we can't do that, we can do a similar thing: cast both a Hellfire Trap and a Teleport Trap on every zone available. Assuming that teleporting a creature to a new zone counts as "entering" that zone, you can set up a roller coaster of fire that dasy-chains from one zone into the next. When a creature enters the first zone, trigger both enchantments. Resolve the Hellfire first, then teleport the creature into the next zone, where two new traps are waiting.

Is this efficient? No. Is it amusing to bounce a mage (or other enemy creature) back and forth around the board dealing up to 6, 4 dice attacks? Yes. Add Mangler Caltrops for even less intelligent fun. And end in a poison gas cloud. Why not?

Enchanter's Ring + Decoy x6
Haven't wasted enough actions on the last combo? Try this one too!
Once a turn, Enchanter's Ring lets you spend one less manna to cast an enchantment on a friendly creature. So cast Decoy on yourself for only 1 manna. At a later date (for example, right before casting another decoy on yourself), reveal it for 2 manna. Net gain of 1 manna. This is actually not a completely stupid combo if you're going to have the Enchanter's ring out anyway (it's a good card!). If you're ever in a situation where your mage can't use up both his actions, you might as well meditate on a decoy to gain 1 manna, right?

Both of these combos could also be used with Fellella. She provides extra actions to make laying down all those traps somewhat less stupid, and though casting a decoy with Fellella prevents you from using the Enchanter's Ring, it does convert a little mana from your Familiar to mana for your Mage, which can be a useful one time tactic if you're 1 or 2 short on a big turn.

Got any other stupid combos?

1195
Spells / Re: Quicksand - Not Really That Great
« on: March 24, 2013, 07:30:41 PM »
Shapeshifter, how are you getting 5%?
The way I play Quicksand, you get 4 attempts to free yourself, and they get harder each time.
Are we playing the card differently?

a. Chance of rolling an 8+   =  5/12 =  .417
b. Chance of rolling a 9+=  4/12=  .333
c. Chance of rolling a 10+=  3/12=  .250
d. Chance of rolling an 11+=  2/12=  .167

The formula is p=(1-a)*(1-b)*(1-c)*(1-d)

Which simplifies to
(10!/6!)/12^4 = .243

Which is just slightly less than a 25% chance of slow murder by quicksand.

Of course, the chances of the quicksand killing the creature climb the longer the creature fails to escape.

0 failures= 24.3%
1 failure= 41.7%
2 failures= 62.5%
3 failures = 83.3%
4 failures = 100% (die, die, die!)

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