Arcane Wonders Forum

Quote from: jacksmack on May 30, 2018, 09:41:55 PM
(Pre nerf) I don’t understand how you can “just” finish off a priestess with 6 bims out since she can use them to heal herself or armor herself while she throws healing spells on top of that.

1: Sprint + Teleport / Forcepush
2: Summon something w/ Ranged (or just a Tegu) + Magebane/Ghoul Rot (@ Priestess)
3. Summon something + Direct Dmg

Summoning 6 HoBS would put you behind the 8-ball in this rushdown scenario. The times we saw Priestess win in the face of serious rushdown are when you counter the Rush with Armor and Summons, not more HoBS. Yes, I run Magebane and Ghoul Rot in every deck (should be Dark Only, IMO).

Quote from: zot on May 29, 2018, 04:38:19 PM
as one of the two players who inspired the nerfs to be required, I will say that I think the changes were elegant. and absolutely required.  being able to spam the board with hob, and a temple is way broken. to the point where you can attack someone for 12dice melee, and then do a free 6plus dice temple shot, and still have a qc to use. ridiculous beyond belief. so if you are running house rules like the old days, priestess should be near 100% win ratio. if not, then they are playing it wrong.

Our local group play-tested the ever-living crap out of HoB/Temple spam and it was hardly unbeatable. And this was before "Lesser Teleport!" Too often the Priestess got (4) HOB out and was already eating 10-15 dmg per turn with no chance of continuing to (6) HOB before dying. It was incredibly "unwise" to cast #5 and #6 in our rushdown testing. Keyword: Rushdown.

Granted, you made the NERF decision with Turtle vs. Turtle in mind, and that kinda bothers me as well.

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hob being unique balances the card extremely well. useful, bit not overpowered. which for a card is a sweet spot. not all decks run any. so in general solid useful card.

I couldn't stand seeing every "class/school" running (1) HoB. Guess I'm a M:TG player at heart.

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same for temple. there are few cards that have an attack that do not require mana as a cost. I cannot come up with one at the moment, but maybe there is one card that does not. so multiple dice for zero mana is broken. put this way you should come to the same conclusion. even if you restrict it to mage/school only. you may not like it, but can  hopefully see the reason why it had to be changed.

Yes, but... You start the match with 0 Temples and 0 Laser-Temples. And we're back to Massive Design Decisions being made for a Turtle vs. Turtle scenario. Rushdown really hurts Turtle-Hob/Laser spam. And here's the rub: There are MANY ways to rushdown the opponent(turtle) but there is only one way to spam HoB/Laser (lay and pray).

I wish these non-mage-specific "power-cards" didn't homogenize the deck-building meta as much as they did/have/continue to do. And I wish Dev/Playtest/QA cared about this issue as much as I do.

Edit: Our local meta died around the same time the HoB/Laser nerf hit... Consensus being homogenization over specialization.

EditEdit: On second-thought, I'm also suggesting I would've been fine with UniqueHoB *and* Priestess-only.

A Wizard without a single Hawkeye!?! What dimension am I in? Wait, did they nerf* Arcane Zap while I wasn't looking?

(* So as to not synergize w/ Range +1)

Having played Mage Wars since First Edition coreset (pre FM/Warlord), I can honestly say Rule-Uncertainty (no denying it exists) isn't my biggest problem with Mage Wars, nor the reason I took a break/quit shortly after the HoBS/TempleLight nerf. I didn't like the flavor of the nerf(s). Still don't.

I feel as if 99% of the nerf(s) should be "____ Mage Only" adjustments. This would buff (round-a-bout) a particular mage without crushing deck-building meta. Temple of Light was nerfed into dust. HoBS too. Both should have been Priest/Priestess Only (not Holy, anticipating Pally later).

Pillar of Righteous Flame should be Pally Only, Tsunami should be Siren Only, and so on. My small group is currently in talks about house-ruling Pillar and Tsunami this way as they appear in every friggin deck (they are just that good value-wise, a druid with tsunami is kinda broken) and 120sbp is plenty of room.

Even when I play Priestess, I tend not to "trade dice" using healing to mitigate direct-dmg(rushdown). Instead, I've cut way back on healing spellbookpoints in trade for things like Pillar of Righteous Flame and more Knights! In the name of an armor-theme, I've added Tegu as well... cheap way (SBP(s)) to get some budget "curses" into my Priestess build without paying triple-cost.

Dodge, Block, Brace Yourself, and Reverse Attack

Quote from: Coshade on May 04, 2018, 11:10:25 AM
One of the good things about rushes is that it teaches you how to get the most out of your defensive cards. I have experienced that when a lot of players figure out how to deal with the turn two rock/boulder/hawkeye/akiros favor combo johktari they can generally deal with most other aggression as well. I think that's why a lot of veteran players go for a mid game timing push as their earliest point of aggression rather then anything before turn 4.

Good point(s). I will often fake the Rush, but you gotta establish the dangers of one first.

Quote from: RomeoXero on May 03, 2018, 12:03:11 PM
You really hold a lot of respect for the flash port attack spell rush don't ya? Does nobody play brace yourself agaist you? Wot pushes? Reverse attack, block, or dodge? I really wonder whats happening when you sit down to play this game. Are all of your games over by round 4? Who are you playing this Rushmaster style agaist, and why haven't they discovered surging wave? Or literally any of the myriad of answers to that kind of aggression?

I think you have "my style" in reverse. I play rushdown because of the massive respect I have for the Long-game ROI during Engine/Spawnpoint/SimCity style play. If left unchecked, you either get ramped with tremendous dice/action advantage or you force a juicy 3-4 hour game.

And I do switch playstyles in the blink of an eye. But the biggest misconception is that I haven't experienced proper Rush-Counterplay. I've lost a lot of Mage Wars games regardless of my opening; due to incredible counter-play.

The purpose of Rush isn't to win outright, it's to deny the opponent a comfort-zone.

Seeking Dispel their Brace Yourself and we're back to making the opponent very uncomfortable.

Quote from: Reddicediaries on May 03, 2018, 07:59:15 AM

Quote from: werner on May 03, 2018, 07:33:01 AM
I was fine with Temple of Light nerf. And Battle Fury nerf. But I feel Rushdown (SprintForcePush / SprintOGTeleport) already balanced HoBS spam perfectly. If you lost to a Mage who casted 6 HoBS, you did a lot wrong that game; starting with allowing all that cheese to happen.

I feel Holy Only was the proper nerf as HoBS really finds Added Value in 4-melee-Mage books.

IF/WHEN Tsunami is nerfed, please consider Siren Only (it's too much Added Value for Druids).

Is Druid the only mage you are concerned about running Tsunami?

No. But in making a case for "Siren Only," I want to highlight the [added value] of Druids running Tsunami. It's more than just Synergy.

I was fine with Temple of Light nerf. And Battle Fury nerf. But I feel Rushdown (SprintForcePush / SprintOGTeleport) already balanced HoBS spam perfectly. If you lost to a Mage who casted 6 HoBS, you did a lot wrong that game; starting with allowing all that cheese to happen.

I feel Holy Only was the proper nerf as HoBS really finds Added Value in 4-melee-Mage books.

IF/WHEN Tsunami is nerfed, please consider Siren Only (it's too much Added Value for Druids).

Quote from: RomeoXero on May 02, 2018, 06:28:04 PM
Personally, HoBS being non unique was insanely broken. In 3 rounds a naked mage could swing 9 dice, for free...

A 3-Melee Mage cloaked in +6 Melee (HoBS) has paid 30 mana and 6 actions. Nothing in Mage Wars is free. Heck, I'd take 3 Lightning Bolts in 2-turns over 6 HoBS in 3-. It will more greatly effect the other mage's spellbook selection/AP. Not to mention 2 lightning bolts on Turn 2 (sprint / force push opener) greatly reduces the odds of more HoBS.

Quote from: RomeoXero on May 01, 2018, 06:22:05 PM
I mean this in the most absolute awesome of ways, so please don't be offended, but id really like to play agaist you with a druid sometime. Are you on octgn? I'm super interested in the way you guys play.

I find upside in all things said, I have no time to take offense. My brother, Alex, just got OCTGN running (plays that aggressive Sniper/Ballista Warlord) and I've been meaning to come over and watch a few games on OCTGN. Me personally, I don't like playing Tabletop onScreen/online--Not even Catan.

Quit Mage Wars for a long time (salty over some of the decisions AW made; Bim Shala nerf should have been Holy Only, IMO... no limits (Holy needs it, IMO)). Got back in when we picked up a bulk collection for a 500% discount. Updated Bim Shala rant: Tsunami should have been and needs to be Siren Only. I digress.

Best thing about coming back? Lesser Teleport. Turn 1 Sprint and Lesser Teleport for (2) going into Turn 2 in FarCenter with 28 mana? You had better not cast that second spawnpoint/tree.

Quote from: Biblofilter on May 01, 2018, 10:58:34 AM
Id like to see that in an Arcane Duels Video soon :)

Ive seen a lot of Druid matchups on Arcane Duels and I'm shocked at how little FIRE they have to navigate. I run a Necro that is summoning Gorgon Archer in B2 on T2 and then lighting fires while you deal with a Gorgon. If you can force a Druid not to Vinetree-Cast (for lack of mana), you are doing something right.

Quote from: RomeoXero on May 01, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
Unfortunately you can't have more than one seedling pod attached to any single zone. If someone in your meta is doing that the easiest way to crack that turtle is to inform him that it's not a legal move ;)

Thanks for this, our local meta is far from Turtle, so it never came up. Our local meta is one of Sprint/LesserTeleport/Turn2TurtleBusterInFarCenter.

by "cheap fire" I mean spellbookpoints (Combustoid(Imp) and Firestream). Fire that can go in every deck, including Nature's premium on Fire.