I'd not harmonize it, but rather have an extra mana flower (1 more expensive) but you different target

best finisher from fun perspective: Stranglevine

Quote from: Borg on October 19, 2016, 05:48:00 AM

Quote from: bigfatchef on October 19, 2016, 05:13:31 AM

Bloodwave: vet tokens for 2 mana when soldier summoned? And vet get also ranged+1?

Two mana/token seems about right, but I would NOT add Range+1 to it simply because the BW can also give an order to give Range +1.
A Crossbowman with Vet and an order would as such be able to attack at range with 5 dice + Pierce +2 - seems a bit too strong imo ... so melee & armor +1 for 2 mana seem fine to me.

Quote from: bigfatchef on October 19, 2016, 05:13:31 AM

Priest:
And 5 life is a good deal for 3 (level2) mana, even without further bonus.

Well, I don't agree there.
The purpose of the game is still to eliminate the opponent before he eliminates you and giving a creature +5 life is not really doing much to help you achieve that whereas +2 attack dice + Pierce +1 is much more effective in that regard, so I really think that all the built-in restrictions on the HA ability need to be removed ( Damage requirement and the HA himself being excluded - so this guy gets mad when you swing at his buddies but not when you swing at himself ? Come on

I would have thought that this myth that it's useless to attack enemy nonmage creatures would have been dispelled by now. Yes you have to kill the Mage to win, but defensive strategies still do work. Keeping your own creatures alive longer is a good tactic. Giving a creature five extra life for only 3 or 4 mana, and giving them an extra offensive boost on top of that should be powerful. The fact that the priest is not doing that well probably has little to do with his channeling stat.

The wizard is 10 channeling and his voltaric shield costs two mana every round that he uses it. And yet no one would say that the wizard is underpowered. And the forcemaster tends to pay a lot of upkeep.

the priest is not doing bad, he is just doing worse than the priestess in any case and that has to do with his channeling

Maybe so, but you forget the epicness of your pet-croc being buffed in the opponents sea! 

Never forget awesomeness in your calculations.

awesomeness is not in particular competetive

And sirenes call can make it quite useless

I think Ill add one in my nature mages books. The aquatic subtype is great against sirens.

think about it Yes of course nice against sirene, but how long can it truly survive? The Sirenes creatures still roll the extra die in shallow sea, and the sirene player probably knows that he has to get rid of that croc. So you invest 6 sbp in a very situational card, aren't you better of with 3 of dispel/crumble/dissolve/purify/disperse/removecurse...

Quote from: Mystery on October 18, 2016, 12:22:46 PM

Quote from: SharkBait on October 18, 2016, 11:58:56 AM

Quote from: Halewijn on October 18, 2016, 11:30:05 AM

I really don't know the cards, but I'm interested. If the Crocodile and the Crab would be applying for a job in your deck, who would you pick and why? 

Depends on the deck, what it's doing, and possibly the training of your mage.

That being said, I love using the croc in beastmaster books. He's a phenomenal pet for straywoods that can also be a sturdy reptile if you run kinships. I also run him in a JBM that I call the bleedmaster too due to grapple being all around awesome and the deathroll having a 5+ bleed chance.

The Crab (multiple, actually) shows up in my siren book as anti-zombie tech. Zombies are notoriously hard to kill due to resilient, so the 2 damage in the upkeep to whatever the crabs have grappled is very effective. The 5 armor of the crab also lets it shrug off otherwise high damage hits from the zombies themselves. Akiro's favor and Iguana regrowth are fantastic accompanying spells for the Crabs too.

At some point, I'm going to try a pet crab out as well. I'm a HUGE fan of both of these creatures because they have the potential to be big, hard to kill threats that can also hold enemy creatures in place for you.

A pet crocodile? just take a pet grizzly and be done with it. The crocodile does of course reduce 2 dice of the grappled creature but first loses 1 die and pierce for the initial move in and later 5 dice vs 7 dice pierce 1 or if the grizzly is your vicitm 5 dice pierce 1 vs 5 dice bleed, the bleeds will stack after some time but initially (until they die and no healing the piercing will give you the same) On top it wastes two of your precious spellbook points.

I am still of same opionion as in playtesting to weak initial dice or at least it should be a 4 spellbooks point creature for either not 6. But the croc has some interaction with the sirene and the deptones, but that takes long set up and the sirene is rather squishy for it. Just the 6 spellbooks points will mean you hardly can afford a back up. It as not a down the road creature but small buffs could have made it a good creature

To the comparison both have the benefits, but for the mana cost you get just better stuff with the crocodile in my pov.

But the bear doesn't do the same job as the croc. The bear's not a reptile, so no armor gain from kinships. The bear can't grapple, so it can't hold a target in place. The bear doesn't cause bleed, which will also add up as you point out. The bear also costs more extra mana (though the difference is minor.) If the pet I wanted was there strictly for damage potential, the bear would be the better choice. Seeing as a pet croc still rolls upwards of 6-7 dice in the same zone as the BM, it's still going to put the hurt out.

Not saying the bear's a bad choice, but it has a different tactical job.

have you ever seen a competetive high level kinship book? Your bear is probably more the problem then your reptile. The in place yes, but it takes first a weak attack to grapple it then it will cause bleed two out of three rounds. It is totally usless against regenerating creatures where it is really just 1extra dmg. In place is nice for stuff you want to keep in place, but with your pet you want to be in that zone so you don't want to be away to shoot and keep it in place. You can also keep it in place with a tanglevine, the problem a single teleport (now even minor teleport) can remove your grapple and then the croc has just been a 4 dice creature (or 5/6 with pet) for 2-3 rounds (depending on effect die and move) for far too long. As said its not a bad creature but small adjustments could have made it a good one. All mixed level creatures have been just hard to include anyway.

Quote from: Halewijn on October 18, 2016, 11:30:05 AM

I really don't know the cards, but I'm interested. If the Crocodile and the Crab would be applying for a job in your deck, who would you pick and why? 

Depends on the deck, what it's doing, and possibly the training of your mage.

That being said, I love using the croc in beastmaster books. He's a phenomenal pet for straywoods that can also be a sturdy reptile if you run kinships. I also run him in a JBM that I call the bleedmaster too due to grapple being all around awesome and the deathroll having a 5+ bleed chance.

The Crab (multiple, actually) shows up in my siren book as anti-zombie tech. Zombies are notoriously hard to kill due to resilient, so the 2 damage in the upkeep to whatever the crabs have grappled is very effective. The 5 armor of the crab also lets it shrug off otherwise high damage hits from the zombies themselves. Akiro's favor and Iguana regrowth are fantastic accompanying spells for the Crabs too.

At some point, I'm going to try a pet crab out as well. I'm a HUGE fan of both of these creatures because they have the potential to be big, hard to kill threats that can also hold enemy creatures in place for you.

A pet crocodile? just take a pet grizzly and be done with it. The crocodile does of course reduce 2 dice of the grappled creature but first loses 1 die and pierce for the initial move in and later 5 dice vs 7 dice pierce 1 or if the grizzly is your vicitm 5 dice pierce 1 vs 5 dice bleed, the bleeds will stack after some time but initially (until they die and no healing the piercing will give you the same) On top it wastes two of your precious spellbook points.

I am still of same opionion as in playtesting to weak initial dice or at least it should be a 4 spellbooks point creature for either not 6. But the croc has some interaction with the sirene and the deptones, but that takes long set up and the sirene is rather squishy for it. Just the 6 spellbooks points will mean you hardly can afford a back up. It as not a down the road creature but small buffs could have made it a good creature

To the comparison both have the benefits, but for the mana cost you get just better stuff with the crocodile in my pov.