Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kharhaz on August 01, 2018, 11:35:11 AM
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Academy Necromancer
Academy Monk
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Sad day for Arena
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And not for selling?
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I’m confused, are you saying the Necromancer and Monk Academy decks are at GenCon? A friend of mine is at GenCon and going to pick up the new decks if possible and it’ll help if I can tell him which ones to look for.
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What the literal crap? There haven't been any previews? Did they even tell Arcane Duels about any of these sets?
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What the literal crap? There haven't been any previews? Did they even tell Arcane Duels about any of these sets?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk
My sentiments exactly.
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=18748.15 (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=18748.15)
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What the literal crap? There haven't been any previews? Did they even tell Arcane Duels about any of these sets?
It's almost like they don't care whether they sell it or not. The (lack of) advertising kind of proves that unfortunately.
They give us nothing for what seems like forever and then suddenly announce it before Gencon with no fanfair? Either they don't know how to build hype, or they simply don't seem to care.
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Er, I may have misunderstood. Are you saying there are 4 Academy prereleases at Gen Con 2018?
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Academy Necromancer
Academy Monk
Now
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Academy Necromancer
Academy Monk
Now
So no Academy Druid or Elementalist?
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I had not even heard talk of necro or monk, just druid and elementalist, hmmm is any there at gencon to confirm?
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Picture or it didn’t happen!
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I had not even heard talk of necro or monk, just druid and elementalist, hmmm is any there at gencon to confirm?
It's Druid and Elementalist, the fb post saying Necro and Monk were available was incorrect.
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Also hello forum, long time no see ;)
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Nice! Can you make photos of cards?
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Wish coshade and pudding could have been given ok to do a preshow, super excited
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Wish coshade and pudding could have been given ok to do a preshow, super excited
I'm sure CoShade and Puddn' wish the same. Brand Management this isn't...
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Wish coshade and pudding could have been given ok to do a preshow, super excited
I believe they will be doing card previews after the con ends. As such, I will leave it to them to post card spoilers. But I will say things might get a bit chilly with the elementalist...
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Ignore original post. I'm at Gen Con and have already bought Druid. I'll get Elementalist later.
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Also hello forum, long time no see ;)
Our Lord has returned! Just in time for frost spells, I suspect. Hallelujah! :P
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Welcome back Lord of Winter ;D
and looking forward to the new cards :)
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Which promo you can find on gencon?
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So these are at Gencon now, but are we still expecting the October ish release of these expansion for those not at the evnt or will it be available sooner? Can I pre-order both? When will arcanewonder have it on site to buy(October)?
I'm now speculating and giving thoughts below
I like the idea of academy Druid. Maybe more than just plants to use, such as insects. Maybe some plant type enchantments, attach to an enemy and a seed grows within them or a weed/parasite plant. Seems cool, we'll see.
I was expecting a necromancer but I'm ok with them not doing one or if he is in the spring 2019 release. I think arena necro has plenty of tools to use, while adding cards can provide more fun, options, or variety to his and others' decks, I feel he isn't the most imperative to boost through Academy release.
In regards to the elementalist, a bold move to introduce a new type of mage to the academy scene before having it in arena(you know Arena the main version of mage wars, the big brother to Academy). The excitement of the unknown gets me hyped and thinking of what could be. Will we see FROST SPELLS? Will there be more Elemental creatures, lesser versions of Arena ones? Will he work as a solo mage sweeping(literally sweeping, as in hit 2 targets or more) through enemies with some wild attack spells? Will we, and I think we will, see some crazy elemental based incantations and enchantment cards which incorporate the elements. Example would be Air school incantation, healing wind; target a creature and heal it a low dice amount like 2 roll, then if possible move to another zone and heal another creature 2 dice roll, then continuing in that direction do the same thing until u hit a wall/ run out of zones. So this would be like mending wave with the directional element( pun not intended) of tsunami. Or like an enchantment card that covers u in rocks so u gain armor but u gain the slow effect as well unless u are uncontainable or unmoveable and it only targets corporeal creatures.
These are the things this mage could do, anything is possible. People kinda trash talked arcanewonders for slacking on Mage Wars, but what if they were just silent because they knew they were going to bring the thunder.
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I just want to have them :'(
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I bet they will be gone just in a minutes :D
I will wait for standard way of things. Hitting refresh in our local e-store :D
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I’m kinda hyped about the elementalist though I don’t play academy.
But for the love of god! Give us an arena version of him.
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I’m kinda hyped about the elementalist though I don’t play academy.
But for the love of god! Give us an arena version of him.
+1
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Several people have bougth the new druida....I need spoilers please, too many years waiting foro this!!! Please help me!!! I acept spoilers send by pm.
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There's a potion that removes condition markers. 3 charges. Also Nature has an attack spell with Doublestrike at range 0-1.
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There's conjurations in Academy now. And a new tree creature who has a quick attack, isnt slow, and is very reasonably priced. Oh and you can summon bee swarms that do critical damage.
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Yes, insect builds could be a thing. I felt like bee swarms should be included for this. As for conjurations, are they zone exclusive? Do u have to destroy your opponent's zone exclusive conjuration b4 u play your own since Academy is essentially a single zone.
We heard about thw druid but what about the elementalist? What FROST SPELLS can we look forward to using
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Bee swarms ARE going to be the next big thing. Swarms make 1 attack for every hit point they have. Swarms only lose 1 hit point per attack unless it's a zone attack. Swarms have finite life. Bees have 3 life. Bees roll 1 attack die that's automatically critical damage. Bees fly. In short? Bees roll 3 crit dice and will eat zombies for breakfast.
None of the conjurattions are zone exclusive. I will try to get off my slacker butt and go buy Elemantalist today.
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I will try to get off my slacker butt and go buy Elemantalist today.
Get off that slacker butt right now!
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We need pictures!! Move your butt and put all them!!! ...pleaseee
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If I could I would buy both first chance I had. I'm stuck waiting on official release date. Is there a way to pre-order? I want to get both packs as soon as they drop.
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Freeze:
A creature with Freeze conditions rolls 1 less die on non-spell attacks. At the end of a creature's activation, remove one Freeze condition if possible. Each Freeze condition on a living creature is also considered 2 damage that cannot be healed. If there are ever Freeze conditions on an object with Burn conditions, remove 1 of each. Repeat this process until there are only Freeze or Burn markets remaining. This is a frost condition and has a removal cost of 2. In Arena, Freeze also grants the Lumbering trait to the affected creature.
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Freeze = lumbering. Fair enough, slow or restrain might be too strong for this condition considering it counts as 2 damage. So freeze is like a lesser taint condition, because it is easier to remove freeze but its added effect of lumbering gives it something to set it apart.
Any extra effect on flying creatures? In Pokemon flying type is weak against ice type attacks. Would be interesting to see if freeze could remove flight.
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Just like there is an enchantment to prevent burn removal, adremalech's touch; I wonder if we will see a freeze removal prevention enchantment (permafrost).
On that note, there is an incantation which damages a target based on the number of burns they have on them. Combustion has you roll 2x dice where x= number of burns on the target, then u remove all the burns. Could we see some sort of incantation of this nature but for frost/freeze. I would call it frostbite.
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It should be noted, every single attack spell that does freeze puts two on at a time. It is this possible for a Siren to put 12 damage on with Naiya's help.
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Cant wait for spoilers. I’m eagerly awaiting to see the artwork frost spells as well.
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For whatever reason my phone sucks at posting pictures on here. I will say the there's a new Terrain. It's in Elementalist. 1 Dark 1 Fire. Puts one burn on every object in its zone that doesn't already have one during upkeep. It can be beat down though. Don't remember exact life but it's not much.
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Thanks to Coshade, silverclawgrizzly and farkas1 you can see this new cards (not it all).
I will add new cards it time.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T1d01MDzYmbFkx7tjUFVloRCklAIKkJ7
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Amazing :)
Frost really is out ;D
So are there any Elementalist stat card/mage card for arena?
I think i heard a rumor, maybe it was just a dream.
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Looks like there is many interesting new cards.
In particular the “potions”, the owl and the new magma terrain.
I wonder if archers in dense fog are supposed to do ranged attacks to other zones.
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I completely forgot to ask but someone hinted to the answer to my question. What school of magic are frost spells? I would guess Air and Water combo but it could be just Water school. This would give the Siren a whole lot more options assuming frost spells can hit flying creatures. Running frost to cover the fact that hydro attacks cant hit flying creatures.
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(It seems) Most of the time OR sometimes AND.
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Frost Attack spells are water or air. The creatures are both.
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Frost attack spells are either Water OR Air.
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Living armor seems good as fuck!
That and the good old bark skin and your basically immune to corrodes while being extremely tankish.
While it might appear as a weakness that it’s armor goes down it could very well be a strength! (I find it weird that this cars slipped through playtest).
Reclamation is super cool... battle forge books are gonna be hurt.
Damned if you dispel damned if you don’t (especially with ward stone coming out before you dispel), and it only takes 3 upkeep’s to destroy a forge.
If you choose to dispel you can be sure another’s pops out the round after and your tempo (and maybe mana pool) is being drained.
Also Barracks Warlords will hate druids for this card.
Wand of ice and fire seems interesting when used late in a round without priority you can almost certainly stack 4 damage on a creature. Not sure it’s worth the actions though, but if you can finish off a medium / big creature it could be.
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Living armor seems good as fuck!
That and the good old bark skin and your basically immune to corrodes while being extremely tankish.
While it might appear as a weakness that it’s armor goes down it could very well be a strength! (I find it weird that this cars slipped through playtest).
Reclamation is super cool... battle forge books are gonna be hurt.
Damned if you dispel damned if you don’t (especially with ward stone coming out before you dispel), and it only takes 3 upkeep’s to destroy a forge.
If you choose to dispel you can be sure another’s pops out the round after and your tempo (and maybe mana pool) is being drained.
Also Barracks Warlords will hate druids for this card.
Wand of ice and fire seems interesting when used late in a round without priority you can almost certainly stack 4 damage on a creature. Not sure it’s worth the actions though, but if you can finish off a medium / big creature it could be.
And picturees of the cards to give opinions?
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Check link to Dropbox on page 3
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Add new cards, swarms and conjurations
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T1d01MDzYmbFkx7tjUFVloRCklAIKkJ7
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What is the lowest level frost spell? Having a level 1 frost spell seems weird considering it is either a water or air school spell. Druid has the level 1 water school, but seeing a plant mage have easy access to an ice spell, something that literally kills the green, would seem out of place. I'm assuming frost is level 2 and higher but I would like to know absolutely.
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Can someone please give the rules for Melting?
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Interesting that you don't have to pay 2 extra mana for 3+ level shields (since the target line only refer to minor weapons and any level shild) with Freeze Weapond.
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Interesting that you don't have to pay 2 extra mana for 3+ level shields (since the target line only refer to minor weapons and any level shild) with Freeze Weapond.
You have misread. The minor applies to the shield part as well. In English it is grammatically correct to apply an adjective to both nouns linked by a conjunction. I agree it can be confusing, is not how I would choose to do it, but it is correct English and Arcane Wonders has used this convention on lots and lots of cards in the past.
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And target bar says minor equipment so maximum is level 2.
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While it might appear as a weakness that it’s armor goes down it could very well be a strength! (I find it weird that this cars slipped through playtest).
It didn't slip through - we were well aware of the interaction, and the card was tested a lot. It's good to be sure, but Druid only and weaker vs swarms (strategy and cards), which is a good thing, as the general strategy needs encouraging.
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While it might appear as a weakness that it’s armor goes down it could very well be a strength! (I find it weird that this cars slipped through playtest).
It didn't slip through - we were well aware of the interaction, and the card was tested a lot. It's good to be sure, but Druid only and weaker vs swarms (strategy and cards), which is a good thing, as the general strategy needs encouraging.
Whats the thought behind dense fog and archers in the fog zone can shoot to other zones?
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Can swarms gain life from Etherian Lifetree?
Killer bees seem really good with it - flying, elusive, 6 dice critical damage for 7 mana and 2 sbp.
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Can swarms gain life from Etherian Lifetree?
Killer bees seem really good with it - flying, elusive, 6 dice critical damage for 7 mana and 2 sbp.
My current understanding of the rules says yes, Life Tree will buff all swarms. However, let's just make sure to mention that each time we talk about swarms we are not talking about a collection of X dice to roll all at once. We are talking about rolling 1 die X times. One singular Vet Belt and a Rhino Hide completely nullifies all swarm damage.
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Well its good to have a counter for it. My understanding of what swarms bring to the table is a creature that will ignore armor because it only crits. This makes swarms strong against zombies and high armored foes. I would like to fully understand how the conditions: weak, stagger(assuming they are not minor creatures, Idk plz clarify) and frost( since frost counts as minus 1 di for attacks) effect a swarm attack. To my knowledge they have no effect on the swarms dice roll since the minimum amount you can roll is 1 do and the swarms roll just 1 di but multiple times. This means swarms counter the effects of a couple of conditions because the conditions reduce number of dice rolled for attack not number of attack actions. Swarms seem strong and even bettet with the etherian life tree to increase how many times they can roll the di.
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They are immune to all conditions.
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Yea I have made my case about swarms on other channels. I do believe they are OP. Some of the wording in the current format contributes to that. Swarms bave been and always will be immune to all conditions. It is part of the text inside the Druid academy rules. They also cannot be targeted by enchantments or incantations unless it has swarm trait in the target line.
I believe they should have the rules text: swarms cannot gain innate life.
I do see the list of ways to counter the killer bees and that is great but when we can start to have the chance to have 9 dice critical, it just shouts OP. I’m a nature school lover and I just want to have balance in Mage wars. This card is far from balanced .
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Agree. Not only innate life, but also swarms shouldn't be heal any way: dorseus or martin's restor.
If we will have swars in view on card, it is great. Finaly i can play "Psylok".
Ps Malacoda, poison gas, idol works like AOE, so should kill all stuck of swams in one turne
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Add new cards, swarms and conjurations
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T1d01MDzYmbFkx7tjUFVloRCklAIKkJ7
Too many thanks!!!!
I don´t understand why several plants don´t have the vine trait, because druid need vine spells.
Do we have more creatures plants or vine?
Potions have slot? Can you have more than one potion?
Do we have a familiar for the druid?
Thanks for all.
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Druid herself doesn't need vine spells. It's Vine Tree that needs them. We got first vine attack spell, another vine enchantment in this expansion and two vine conjurations.
There's Fellela for druid and she can use vine markers to cast vine enchantments on distant targets.
Potions don't use slots and you can have few of them at the same time as long as they are different potions. You can't have two copies of same object attached to single object or zone.
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Can swarms gain life from Etherian Lifetree?
Killer bees seem really good with it - flying, elusive, 6 dice critical damage for 7 mana and 2 sbp.
My current understanding of the rules says yes, Life Tree will buff all swarms. However, let's just make sure to mention that each time we talk about swarms we are not talking about a collection of X dice to roll all at once. We are talking about rolling 1 die X times. One singular Vet Belt and a Rhino Hide completely nullifies all swarm damage.
Vet belt is good against bees for sure. On the other hand they break Block and Glancing Blow.
How do swarms interact with Reverse Attack and Divine Reversal?
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I don't remember that last book I played, or played against that didn't have a big stack of armour and at least one Vet Belt. It's too good not to include, even at triple cost.
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I don't remember that last book I played, or played against that didn't have a big stack of armour and at least one Vet Belt. It's too good not to include, even at triple cost.
And I can't remember the last book I faced that had either of those things. :)
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i think I prefer the ants. Breaking multiple guards and probing for blocks (and the like) on multiple targets seems incredibly strong.
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i think I prefer the ants. Breaking multiple guards and probing for blocks (and the like) on multiple targets seems incredibly strong.
It would break Domination matches completely, I suspect.
"Yeah, you know that zone of yours with two guards and two On orbs controlled by you? Not any more they're not. I'll just break your Guards and turn those orbs off with this little ant thing, and then come in with my two goblin legionnaires to turn them on for me. Sorry!"
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Hang on, do most swarm creatures have pest trait? Maybe we need to update pest to work the way it does in academy. That would probably fix this.
Edit: they don't have pest nvm
i think I prefer the ants. Breaking multiple guards and probing for blocks (and the like) on multiple targets seems incredibly strong.
It would break Domination matches completely, I suspect.
"Yeah, you know that zone of yours with two guards and two On orbs controlled by you? Not any more they're not. I'll just break your Guards and turn those orbs off with this little ant thing, and then come in with my two goblin legionnaires to turn them on for me. Sorry!"
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk
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Thanks to Coshade, silverclawgrizzly and farkas1 you can see this new cards (not it all).
I will add new cards it time.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T1d01MDzYmbFkx7tjUFVloRCklAIKkJ7
You made my day!!! wow, I can't wait to get my academy sets! Thanks a lot for the images!!!
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Thanks to Coshade, silverclawgrizzly and farkas1 you can see this new cards (not it all).
I will add new cards it time.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T1d01MDzYmbFkx7tjUFVloRCklAIKkJ7
You made my day!!! wow, I can't wait to get my academy sets! Thanks a lot for the images!!!
When we get more spoilers? i would to know if we get more vine creatures , seems few cards now for a new academic druid.
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I post photos of ather players, because I don't have this new sets. If people make new photos and post them, I'll add them in file. So, we can only wait...
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It seems like Incorporeal isn't a part of Acadamy, thus the effect of Incorporeal is instead written on every card. How will this play out towards Etheraeal (which of some reason is in this Acadamy set)? I assume it won't work?
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Arcane Wonders will be giving Arcane Duels review copies of the sets in the near future. The plan is to have the set spoilers completed and ready to post by the end of August or beginning of September. This is theplan. Plan's are subject to change sometimes.
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i think I prefer the ants. Breaking multiple guards and probing for blocks (and the like) on multiple targets seems incredibly strong.
It would break Domination matches completely, I suspect.
"Yeah, you know that zone of yours with two guards and two On orbs controlled by you? Not any more they're not. I'll just break your Guards and turn those orbs off with this little ant thing, and then come in with my two goblin legionnaires to turn them on for me. Sorry!"
Assuming your enemy doesn't roll poorly the ants won't be able to disable both orbs. The Ants have 4 life. Both guards will damage them and at 2 hp left the ants can make only 3 attacks.
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My understanding of swarms is
1 non spell attacks cant target or affect unless stated it can hit swarms
2 non zone attacks do max of one damage
The above notes are known by looking at the swarm trait summary in the photo link. Below is what I'm assuming is also correct about swarms
1 zone attack spells will do damage shown on dice
2 zone attacks like Oscuda or Ludwig boltstorm will do damage as shown on dice
I just want to be sure any type of zone attack will hit swarms normally.
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My understanding of swarms is
1 non spell attacks cant target or affect unless stated it can hit swarms
2 non zone attacks do max of one damage
The above notes are known by looking at the swarm trait summary in the photo link. Below is what I'm assuming is also correct about swarms
1 zone attack spells will do damage shown on dice
2 zone attacks like Oscuda or Ludwig boltstorm will do damage as shown on dice
I just want to be sure any type of zone attack will hit swarms normally.
Close! ;)
Here is a fixed version of your summary:
1 Both non-spell attacks and spell attacks can target and affect swarms, but do a maximum of 1 dmg
2 non-attack spells (i.e. enchants, incantations, etc.) cannot target or affect swarms, unless specifically stated
3 zone attack spells will do damage shown on dice
4 zone attacks like Oscuda or Ludwig boltstorm will do damage as shown on dice
And we can add some more pointers:
5 swarms are immune to condition markers
6 swarms have finite life
7 swarms cannot guard
8 and then finally, swarms gain additional strikes equal to remaining life
Lots of very specific rules.
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By the way: Usually innate life bypasses finite life, so I'm wondering how Etherian Lifetree interacts with the swarms. Seems like they would get life this way since they are living, and thus gain additional strikes, but I'm sure that isn't right. Right? ???
Edit: I see Santar and Farkas already pointed this out, but seems like no one has adressed it yet?
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Keejchen thanks for clearing up what attacks can or cant target swarms. Every attack can target them but damage dealt will differ depending on the type of attack. The points 5-8 I left out only because I was focusing on how swarms treat attacks against them but they are important for knowing what all a swarm is capable of doing, receiving or negating.
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Yep Keejchen swarms gain life and gain additional strikes with this combo. There is a way to get killer bee swarms up to 9 dice critical. I’m gonna let the forums figure out what other cards can combo to make additional strikes up to 9. I think they can get up to 10 but need to clarify if that is possible. 10 die critical attacks is possible now! :o
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Killer bees base = 4 attacks
Potion of rage + 1
Bim + 1
Both players play life tree + 4
Scout + 1
Marked for death + 1
So maximum with these cards is 12 and 10 if your opponent doesn’t play tree.
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IMO killer bees are way to OP by the fact that their attach is critical AND melee. Range would have been good enough ... Also that they only take one dmg per attack is ridiculous... with only lifetree you get them to 5 health and you need to hit these FLYING beasts 5 times if you don’t wanna waste a zone attack ....what a waste of actions ... and don’t forget that Dorseus (bypass the finite life) may heal these bastards. Nature school already has soo many good cards. Why on earth do we need more of those cards? Compared to the war school it is hilarious...
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Killer bees base = 4 attacks
Potion of rage + 1
Bim + 1
Both players play life tree + 4
Scout + 1
Marked for death + 1
So maximum with these cards is 12 and 10 if your opponent doesn’t play tree.
Wow!
And more than one swarm can be in play at a time? Everyone needs an Idol of Pestilence now. :)
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*grumbles about the plain silliness of the concept that bee stings will be the perfect counter to zombie hordes*
I could certainly see sense in Swarms only affecting Living things. But stinging fire elementals to death? Makes no sense. What is a bee sting (or an ant bite) if not a Poison attack?
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*grumbles about the plain silliness of the concept that bee stings will be the perfect counter to zombie hordes*
I could certainly see sense in Swarms only affecting Living things. But stinging fire elementals to death? Makes no sense. What is a bee sting (or an ant bite) if not a Poison attack?
Wait, it affecting only Living is not the case? Geeze. Bees stinging a fire elemental to death? While in real life we use flame against insects for its crazy effectiveness. hah.
sounds like something as crazy OP as Galaxxus in Domination. The sort of thing that players agree to be banned before playing.
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From the last documentation I have:
Swarm (Object Trait)
Creatures with the Swarm trait cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target Swarm creatures. Creatures with the Swarm trait may make multiple additional strikes when attacking. The total number of attacks they make is equal to their remaining health. Additionally, they are immune to conditions and healing. Non-zone attacks do a maximum of 1 damage to them.
Killer Bees have 3 health. So that should be a total of 3 attacks; not a base of 1 plus remaining health of 3 in this case.
Also Hand, Marked, Scout, etc apply to the first attack made each round. So it will be 1 +X critical dice, then the additional strikes at 1 dice each as per normal. Life Tree would then extend the number of extra attacks.
Not that it helps the innital reaction to them, but that is the closest thing I have to official verbage at the moment.
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From the last documentation I have:
Swarm (Object Trait)
Creatures with the Swarm trait cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target Swarm creatures. Creatures with the Swarm trait may make multiple additional strikes when attacking. The total number of attacks they make is equal to their remaining health. Additionally, they are immune to conditions and healing. Non-zone attacks do a maximum of 1 damage to them.
Killer Bees have 3 health. So that should be a total of 3 attacks; not a base of 1 plus remaining health of 3 in this case.
Also Hand, Marked, Scout, etc apply to the first attack made each round. So it will be 1 +X critical dice, then the additional strikes at 1 dice each as per normal. Life Tree would then extend the number of extra attacks.
Not that it helps the innital reaction to them, but that is the closest thing I have to official verbage at the moment.
That is not what the text of the Druid Academy Rulebook says. I don't have access to it right now, but I know it says something quite different.
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I have wrote this about swarms on other channels as well so here it goes.
This is what it says in the ruling about swarms:
Swarm
This creature is made up of countless Smaller creatures. Creatures with the swarm trait cannot gaurd and Cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures. When attacking, Creatures with swarm trait may make additional strikes equal to their remaining health. Additionally, they are immune to conditions, and have the finite life trait. Non zone attacks do a maximum of 1 damage to them.
I’m gonna break down the math and how it works with current ruling.
With the combo of scout, marked, and hand. From the text in the academy Druid set It says you may make additional strikes equal to your health. So the first strike with a fully healed killer bees you get 4 dice, then you do 1 die attacks equal to the bees health. 4+1+1+1, (+1+1 w/ life tree)
I'm not sure what the correct thing to do with swarms besides run them in every book
Options to fix
Possibly making them not being able to gain any additional dies for attack would be the easiest thing to do. 6 die critical with life tree is still pretty darn good.
Or making it so they can not gain innate life. Which would be also be ok it does allow it to get to 7die that way.
After looking at them and considering them more I feel this is the best way to balance them.
So the word additional was added from our last play test reading of the rules. Let’s take the word additional out. That takes them down one die. I’m leaning towards no life tree bonuses because it makes them too crazy to kill and hit too hard too fast.
IMO I don’t like that this one card or trait changes the meta this much. Making zombies and most creatures absolete. Yea vet belt and tons of armor gets carried in many books as well as running several more zone attacks. All that I know is that having 8+ Die with critical damage is too much and Even 6 die critical is a little crazy imo.
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"My Lord, a Swarm of Killer Bees and a Woolly Rhino are in the next zone!"
"No problem. My Force Wave will send them packing!"
*woowoowoowoo*
"What? The Bees are still there? The Rhino went tumbling head of heels, but the *Bees* are still there! Well, this will sort them out. Fireball!"
*ka-PHOOM!*
"My Lord, your fireball killed one Bee."
"One Bee. One. Really? Wall of Poison Gas!"
*ssssshhhhhh*
"They flew through, My Lord. You killed one again. Oh, and now some Ants are coming too."
"Well, Thorg, use that massive flat headed tenderizer of yours!"
"One bug pancake, coming right up!"
*blammo*
"Uh, boss, I think I winged one. And they just stung Talos into pieces."
"...!" *sigh* "This is ridiculous. I'm leaving."
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From the last documentation I have:
Swarm (Object Trait)
Creatures with the Swarm trait cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target Swarm creatures. Creatures with the Swarm trait may make multiple additional strikes when attacking. The total number of attacks they make is equal to their remaining health. Additionally, they are immune to conditions and healing. Non-zone attacks do a maximum of 1 damage to them.
Killer Bees have 3 health. So that should be a total of 3 attacks; not a base of 1 plus remaining health of 3 in this case.
Also Hand, Marked, Scout, etc apply to the first attack made each round. So it will be 1 +X critical dice, then the additional strikes at 1 dice each as per normal. Life Tree would then extend the number of extra attacks.
Not that it helps the innital reaction to them, but that is the closest thing I have to official verbage at the moment.
That is not what the text of the Druid Academy Rulebook says. I don't have access to it right now, but I know it says something quite different.
So they added a guarding restriction and changed the bit on the number of attacks; interesting
Devil's Advocate: Zone attacks are still very effective against them. A voltaic discharge and a volley of flame gets the job done more often than not. Gives[mwcard=FWC10]Ludwig Boltstorm[/mwcard] something to do too lol :P
@Arkdeniz +1
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Oi Arkdeniz, you forgot the bees would fly over the wall ;D
Seriously though, the more these swarms are discussed, the more I wonder how they pass through playtest. They are super cool in theory, but it feels like there are some oversights here.
Sure they can be countered, if you catch them in an AoE they evaporate, this seems like the best way to deal with them, but in arena they will likely just avoid whatever zone your mage is in. And if you spend an AoE spell on just 1 swarm creature you are losing out, not to mention you might hit your own stuff.
If you get a few attacks on them before they engage, they might not do a lot, but this way they will likely still generate more value than any other 7 mana creature.
Damage barriers will be very nice against them (or do they roll all attacks before being struck back? I always forget).
I can see that in academy they aren't as bad. Fewer ways to buff them, (almost) no resilient for bees to be silly against, and any AoE attack will always hit them (time to really spam AoE in academy).
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By by Forcefield...
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I think the swarm concept with only getting 1 dmg per hit if its not a zone attack is a bad idea. Not for acadamy but for areana. Killerbees for 7 mana with 4x1 die critical dmg AND FLYING ... that sucks ... veteran belt is a good solution but once desolved you are fresh meat for them and you can not protect your creatures.
For the fire elemental story:
The bees attack is not ethereal and fire elemental is incorporal so only 1dmgs on the dice count. So far that seems ok that it doesn’t kill the fire elemental so easily...
But:
Zombies killed by little stings? Come on ... Or an iron golem? WTF? Can you imagine bees trying to sting an iron block?
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Another one is bees hitting a Water elemental... uhh ahh that hurts screams the water elemental ... stinging water ... 22 mana vs 7 mana ... and expect for guarding he can’t do anything (kills one bee) ... ridiculous
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Oi Arkdeniz, you forgot the bees would fly over the wall ;D
True!
But the ants would just walk through with little trouble. The point stands.
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This is what it says in the ruling about swarms:
[…] Creatures with the swarm trait cannot gaurd and Cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures. […]
Given the wording of the second clause in this sentence, one could make the case that Etherian Life Tree or Idol of Pestilence do not affect swarms. Spells with terms like "All Living Objects" or "All Objects" would not affect a creature with the swarm trait since they lack the specific target reference to the swarm trait. i.e. "All Living Objects" is a general targeting term rather than a specific targeting term like "all swarm creatures". Some examples in the rules would have been nice to clarify the intent of this interaction.
With this interpretation all the Conjuration spells currently in Arena would not affect a creature with the swarm trait since the trait did not exist until now. Does this interpretation help lower the OP nature of swarm creatures?
Another house rule - simply remove the 'Critical Damage' attack trait. Is this trait inherent to all swarms or just the Killer Bees? Without the Critical Damage trait a swarm drops to a more realistic power-level creature with a different type of resilience to attacks, but most damage will be done to unarmored creatures.
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This is what it says in the ruling about swarms:
[…] Creatures with the swarm trait cannot gaurd and Cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures. […]
Given the wording of the second clause in this sentence, one could make the case that Etherian Life Tree or Idol of Pestilence do not affect swarms. Spells with terms like "All Living Objects" or "All Objects" would not affect a creature with the swarm trait since they lack the specific target reference to the swarm trait. i.e. "All Living Objects" is a general targeting term rather than a specific targeting term like "all swarm creatures". Some examples in the rules would have been nice to clarify the intent of this interaction.
With this interpretation all the Conjuration spells currently in Arena would not affect a creature with the swarm trait since the trait did not exist until now. Does this interpretation help lower the OP nature of swarm creatures?
Another house rule - simply remove the 'Critical Damage' attack trait. Is this trait inherent to all swarms or just the Killer Bees? Without the Critical Damage trait a swarm drops to a more realistic power-level creature with a different type of resilience to attacks, but most damage will be done to unarmored creatures.
Sorry, man. If you interpret the rules this way you also eliminate any attacks against the swarm because no creature's attack bar specifically targets swarms.
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I didn’t go to GenCon, but a friend of mine did and he picked up 2 copies of each of the new Academy decks for me. I don’t play Academy often but I’ve got to say I’m really excited to use a lot of these cards in my Arena books. The Elementalist deck in particular is fun because I see many different cards that I am looking forward to using in Arena books. Also I am really interested in using the Frost spells as well as a few of the Druid’s cards in my Siren book.
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I think wtcannonjr is onto something!
The swarm rules specifically say that swarms cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells. Which is a double negative... The swarms can only be targeted and affected by attack spells. But this restriction is purely for spells affecting them directly. It is implied that they can be targeted and affected by any attacks as normal (except they take maximum 1 dmg from non-zone, and conditions won't stick).
If we accept this interpretation, then that fixes the lifetree giving additional strikes and the extra critical dice from other buff cards. But it's not perfect either, because then they are suddenly not affected by stuff like terrain (I guess ants aren't hindered by a steep hill) or possibly even other creature passive abilities (malacoda comes to mind). But I think that's a whole lot better than 10 dice killer bees.
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Hey keejchen. Honestly that is how I interpreted them in playtesting with the different wording was similarly to wtcannonjr. And that is also why I did not really stress about them being OP during play testing. Wording was changed a bit during printing and I could see current ruling for them either way honestly which is pretty unfortunate. Because I did not want them to be this strong at all.
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Etherian Lifetree certainly boosted them in testing... It was in my book (back when we had a card to auto-heal them too...)
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This is what it says in the ruling about swarms:
[…] Creatures with the swarm trait cannot gaurd and Cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures. […]
Given the wording of the second clause in this sentence, one could make the case that Etherian Life Tree or Idol of Pestilence do not affect swarms. Spells with terms like "All Living Objects" or "All Objects" would not affect a creature with the swarm trait since they lack the specific target reference to the swarm trait. i.e. "All Living Objects" is a general targeting term rather than a specific targeting term like "all swarm creatures". Some examples in the rules would have been nice to clarify the intent of this interaction.
With this interpretation all the Conjuration spells currently in Arena would not affect a creature with the swarm trait since the trait did not exist until now. Does this interpretation help lower the OP nature of swarm creatures?
Another house rule - simply remove the 'Critical Damage' attack trait. Is this trait inherent to all swarms or just the Killer Bees? Without the Critical Damage trait a swarm drops to a more realistic power-level creature with a different type of resilience to attacks, but most damage will be done to unarmored creatures.
Sorry, man. If you interpret the rules this way you also eliminate any attacks against the swarm because no creature's attack bar specifically targets swarms.
The swarm trait rules specifically address how attacks are handled by covering zone attacks and all other attacks as separate cases. Thus, IMO all attacks fall under the "specifically target swarm creatures" wording.
From the recent discussion here, it seems like different interpretations of swarms may have existed among playtesters. Is there still a mechanism other than the forums for the playtesters to seek clarification on rules/cards AFTER publication? If so, this may be a time to use that process.
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I think the swarm concept with only getting 1 dmg per hit if its not a zone attack is a bad idea. Not for acadamy but for areana. Killerbees for 7 mana with 4x1 die critical dmg AND FLYING ... that sucks ... veteran belt is a good solution but once desolved you are fresh meat for them and you can not protect your creatures.
For the fire elemental story:
The bees attack is not ethereal and fire elemental is incorporal so only 1dmgs on the dice count. So far that seems ok that it doesn’t kill the fire elemental so easily...
But:
Zombies killed by little stings? Come on ... Or an iron golem? WTF? Can you imagine bees trying to sting an iron block?
Yeah, because first thing I think about when watching any zombie apocalypse movie is "Man, if only there were some bees around yeah?"
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I think the wording for this trait is just strange and way too complicated to fully understand. If even “experienced mage wars players” like us misunderstand this trait how could they publish something so confusing. Even if it sounds weird, IMO it would have been better with the simple wording swarms are « non living », take only 1 dmg per Hit (except AoE), roll 1 extra die for each Life left, psy immune ...
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Seriously though, the more these swarms are discussed, the more I wonder how they pass through playtest. They are super cool in theory, but it feels like there are some oversights here.
It has to be remembered that each playtester is a voice within a forum (a super secret one which only we see), much like here. We play with versions of the cards and give our feedback on the designed cards, however it is upto the designers to modify those cards and the final versions ultimately fit the image of the set that they want to create.
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Thanks Falcas1 we have much more images of new cards and stat's cards of Druid and Elementalist. You can find all information here: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/folders/1T1d01MDzYmbFkx7tjUFVloRCklAIKkJ7
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hmm.... Blowgun and no Poisoned darts? makes no sense to me
Is this an error on the Card or does the elementalist really have 43 spelbook points?
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Thanks Falcas1 we have much more images of new cards and stat's cards of Druid and Elementalist. You can find all information here: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/folders/1T1d01MDzYmbFkx7tjUFVloRCklAIKkJ7
Only wish for Christmas is now an arena elementalist!
Looks really cool!
(But corrode removal seems very easy now - maybe “bankers” will be the new thing again.)
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well, i love this "swarm" trait. the idea to have many tiny creatures in one is complicated and beautifull: so MW!
but they seem to have balanced it badly... that not usual in this game...
should be errated quickly.
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Any official word on what Melting trait is. 2 frost creatures have it and deep freeze nullifies melting. Not sure what it is, could be 2 damage per upkeep.
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Any official word on what Melting trait is. 2 frost creatures have it and deep freeze nullifies melting. Not sure what it is, could be 2 damage per upkeep.
You are correct. Melting X = X damage during upkeep (might be X life lost, but for non-living it doesn't matter)
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Cant be that alone puddin.
Is it for Living it doesn’t matter?
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Cant be that alone puddin.
Is it for Living it doesn’t matter?
No, Living it matters a ton. You can Heal damage. You can't Heal lost life. For Non-living you can't heal them anyway so it doesn't matter if it's damage or lost life.
Pretty sure melting is just another way of implementing dissipate.
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Add last new cards!
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/folders/1T1d01MDzYmbFkx7tjUFVloRCklAIKkJ7
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I'm a touch disappointed that the Tar Trap and Frost Trap target creatures directly, rather than targeting a zone like other trap enchantments.
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I'm a touch disappointed that the Tar Trap and Frost Trap target creatures directly, rather than targeting a zone like other trap enchantments.
Academy only has a single Zone... and with one exception, Traps can';t target a Zone with enemy creatures in it. What you are looking for are Arena cards, not Academy.
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What you think about the Diamond Golem i find him useless, 9 mana for him is to much.
He would have to negate at least the first 5 damage at his 3 live.
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Academy only has a single Zone... and with one exception, Traps can';t target a Zone with enemy creatures in it. What you are looking for are Arena cards, not Academy.
You are correct, I am looking for Arena cards. Pity there hasn't been any new ones released in a while. The arena needs more trap cards like that, and tar and frost would have worked perfectly for more options in that regard.
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Are those all spoilers? i miss a familiar for druid and elementalist.
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Are those all spoilers? i miss a familiar for druid and elementalist.
The Druid has Vine Trees, Seedling Pods, Samara Trees...
[and of course, as people have subsequently pointed out, she also has Fellella]
She does not need another familiar.
The Elementalist, well, let us see how it goes. It might not work well with one.
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The druid has a familiar. Fellela.
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What you think about the Diamond Golem i find him useless, 9 mana for him is to much.
He would have to negate at least the first 5 damage at his 3 live.
Here is one of the areas where MW differs from MtG the most in my opinion. In MtG you have room for less good/efficient creature or spells. This because you have drafts and other formats that let's you use these. But in MW this type of game styles are none existant thus requires all cards to be really equal/balanced or fit a very certain purpose. Otherwise they will never see sun light. I bet the Diamond golem will never see any good decks.
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Are those all spoilers? i miss a familiar for druid and elementalist.
The Druid has Vine Trees, Seedling Pods, Samara Trees...
She does not need a familiar.
The Elementalist, well, let us see how it goes. It might not work well with one.
Druid also has Fellela.
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Are those all spoilers? i miss a familiar for druid and elementalist.
The Druid has Vine Trees, Seedling Pods, Samara Trees...
She does not need a familiar.
The Elementalist, well, let us see how it goes. It might not work well with one.
Druid also has Fellela.
Fellela its nature mage, not only druid, i was asking for a familiar that could help to summon plant/vine spells, not only enchantments.
Beastmaster academy got one, Why not druid academy? Felella it´s too expensive for my taste.
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Wychwood Faerie is not strictly speaking a familiar. It's more of a discount ring on a creature's body. I highly doubt we will ever see proper familiars in academy. Also, Druid is the mage with the most ability to spawn of any mage in the game. I really don't see the need for yet another way for a Druid to get a discount or a free action.
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Wychwood Faerie is not strictly speaking a familiar. It's more of a discount ring on a creature's body. I highly doubt we will ever see proper familiars in academy. Also, Druid is the mage with the most ability to spawn of any mage in the game. I really don't see the need for yet another way for a Druid to get a discount or a free action.
[mwcard=DNC17]Tataree[/mwcard]
Is more or less the same for Druid.
"Also, Druid is the mage with the most ability to spawn of any mage in the game. I really don't see the need for yet another way for a Druid to get a discount or a free action."
+1000
And im a Druid player :)
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Are there more spoilers that we didn´t see? anyone knows how many left? thanks.
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Are those all spoilers? i miss a familiar for druid and elementalist.
The Druid has Vine Trees, Seedling Pods, Samara Trees...
She does not need a familiar.
The Elementalist, well, let us see how it goes. It might not work well with one.
Druid also has Fellela.
Fellela its nature mage, not only druid, i was asking for a familiar that could help to summon plant/vine spells, not only enchantments.
Beastmaster academy got one, Why not druid academy? Felella it´s too expensive for my taste.
You all ready have the vine tree, don't make Druid even more broken.😀
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All the necromancers here are missing a trick when it comes to the elementalist set, you blood thirsty lot.....
*Walks away grumbling about theme*
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Are those all spoilers? i miss a familiar for druid and elementalist.
The Druid has Vine Trees, Seedling Pods, Samara Trees...
She does not need a familiar.
The Elementalist, well, let us see how it goes. It might not work well with one.
Druid also has Fellela.
Fellela its nature mage, not only druid, i was asking for a familiar that could help to summon plant/vine spells, not only enchantments.
Beastmaster academy got one, Why not druid academy? Felella it´s too expensive for my taste.
You all ready have the vine tree, don't make Druid even more broken.😀
hahaha , only asking for more variety, they can do familiar that forbid another to avoid overpower, but it´s good to have several to get more variety in strategy, Maybe a tree creature that you can bond but only can make level 1 plant spells. pe.
Im not asking for overpower a mage, only to get more variety of strategics.
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"My Lord, a Swarm of Killer Bees and a Woolly Rhino are in the next zone!"
"No problem. My Force Wave will send them packing!"
*woowoowoowoo*
"What? The Bees are still there? The Rhino went tumbling head of heels, but the *Bees* are still there! Well, this will sort them out. Fireball!"
Ok, finally have my copy in hand. Can someone explain why Force a Wave, which targets a zone, affect swarms? Aren’t swarms affected by anything that would, for example, affect an invisible creature, e.g. Teleport Trap, Force Wave, etc?
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I'm pretty sure that it has to do with the trait wording: "...cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures. "
So, chock it up to poor wording, rushed development and almost no legitimate play testing time. Waves of force cannot move little insects. :P
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I'm pretty sure that it has to do with the trait wording: "...cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures. "
So, chock it up to poor wording, rushed development and almost no legitimate play testing time. Waves of force cannot move little insects. :P
But it is affected by Etherian Lifetree - because it's not a "spell" but rather a global effect at that point?
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I'm pretty sure that it has to do with the trait wording: "...cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures. "
So, chock it up to poor wording, rushed development and almost no legitimate play testing time. Waves of force cannot move little insects. :P
But it is affected by Etherian Lifetree - because it's not a "spell" but rather a global effect at that point?
Correct, Etherian Lifetree is now an "Object" and not a "Spell". This begs the question of whether objects are also spells since they were once spells, but that has not been officially clarified yet.
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I think this has been answered in other rule clarifications.
Example the ring of healing cannot benefit the angels that heal when they are summoned/destroyed.
Because at the point where they heal they are no longer a spell but rather a creature/object.
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Actually it's not the angel that's healing but the mage so You can use the ring.
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Im pretty sure at the time you reveal this it’s no longer a spell, so the ring doesn’t trigger.
Objects on the board are no longer spells.
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Objects on the board are no longer spells.
This
Object (Game Term)
Enchantments, equipment, creatures, and conjurations are spells which become objects in the game, remaining in play after they are cast. The mage is also considered an object. Incantation and attack spells do not become objects.