Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spells => Topic started by: Halewijn on January 15, 2017, 05:52:39 AM
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How would you use mordok's tome? What kind of wizard strategies would really benefit for having that extra spell planned? Do you think it is worth 5 mana?
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Next time im playing Wizard im opening with Gate to Voltari + Modok´s Tome.
So i think Mordok´s Tome might be better than +1 Mana for the entire game.
Elemental Wand/Mage Wand
Seeking Dispel + Dispel (so they cant reveal on you)
2 Jinx (keep em Jinxed)
Nullify (instant replacement of Nullify)
Dissolve
Hoodwink?
All seems like good options :)
I think you would loose the third spell on your hand if Mordok´s Tome gets dissolved.
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I think you would loose the third spell on your hand if Mordok´s Tome gets dissolved.
Not at all! The extra spell isn't attached to, or even associated with, Mordok's Tome in any way. The tome is giving you an effect during the Planning Phase which allows you to prepare an additional spell. That extra spell isn't treated any different than any other spell you've prepared though and will simply go back into your spellbook at the start of your next Planning Phase along with any other uncast spells.
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To elaborate a little further, the Tome isn't actually allowing you to have a 3rd spell out at a time. It's allowing you to GET a third spell out during the Planning Phase. There isn't actually any rule saying that you can't have more than 2 spells prepared at a time. There's just no way possible to get more than that prepared without the tome, because the rules normally limit you to only getting 2 out during Planning, and force you to put unused spells back.
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Thanks for this info Zuberi!
At some points of the game I only feel the need for 1 spell in my hand. This happens when I want to attack or guard or doublemove with my full action anyway.
On the other hand there are moments when my enemy surprises me and I have 2 useless spells with me. Then a third could maybe be helpfull. But is that worth 5 mana, 1 sbp and one action? I am not sure!
If you have a book that has some fragile strategie that depends on what the other mage is doing, then maybe the tome is a good choice.
Let me know when you try it what you feel about it!
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I currently feel like the wizard is actually one of the mages that would benefit the least from such an effect since he has so many ways to plan spells automatically and action generators. although action generators are a smaller issue here.
- He already has an attack spell planned each round (arcane zap)
- easy access to mage wand & elemental wand
action generators
- Wizard tower
- Huggin
- Gate to Voltari
- Battle forge
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Fun fact: the art for Mordok's Tome is a combination of the art on the 2 spellbooks that came with the first edition of the game. My 11 year old just pointed that out to me this morning.
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Next time im playing Wizard im opening with Gate to Voltari + Modok´s Tome.
So i think Mordok´s Tome might be better than +1 Mana for the entire game.
I disagree. I mean sure it depends on your plan for the game but if I had a dollar for every time I wanted 1 more mana in a planning phase......
Personally I think this card is a safety net for early game to make sure you react better against a certain mage. Is this AD Warlock Rushball (Curse+Firehaper Ring+Hawkeye hit fireballs for a ~3 Turn kill), Swarm, Buddy, Misc? The 3rd card allows me to hold an ace in the hold to react better, HOWEVER this does NOT give you an extra action, if anything it takes the same action and mana as I would use on Mana efficiency. You can only cast 2 spells a turn, so holding 3,4, or 10 cards in your hand doesn't matter. It gives you options however to punish the over committed mage, but not much else.
However having better game smarts by spotting the signs and knowing other builds by playing them is better; this saves mana and actions. Mana and actions are the difference in winning and losing.
Same example as before, Wizard vs ADW:
T1 Mana Crystal and Battle Forge. No move, to see what he does.
What does he do? Single move, enchantment matrix on mage and Fireshaper ring. I smell Rushball.
T2: Deploy: Elemental Cloak Cast: Raincloud, Nullify and no move.
If he double moves to get into range for Marked for death? boom countered! That's his whole turn wasted! Where as I am at -4 Flame, and he now has to spend mana and actions to get back to where he was a turn before. If not then I am -4 Flame (his damage type), -2 Acid, Regen 1, can remove burns, have a counterspell banked on me, and I have 1 armor. That is a win-win situation for Mr. Wizard.
Did this need Mordok's tome? No. It used game smarts and didn't even gain this advantage from being in the Arena. This was won at the book building stage. Somewhere Mordok's Tome doesn't effect.
Also the longer the game goes on for the less useful this card becomes, in my opinion. Wizard is the master of the long game and once you have the opponents plan A blunted, while building up still, does it really matter that you have these extra options? No, not really.
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Mordok's Tome is an interesting card. As an ability on a Mage, it would be good, but is it worth an action and mana (and an equipment slot) - my view is generally no, but it might be in some builds.
I think it definitely helps you more when you don't know what you should be doing - whether that's because you are new to the game, or facing an unknown metagame, or even an unknown book. The more you can read your situation (and this includes knowledge of your own book), the less you need it. Of course, none of us are perfect, and we could all benefit from it sometimes, the question is, is that enough to be useful?
Personally, I don't think I'd play it early - whilst I can see the attraction, I don't think a slow mage prefers this over economy, nor a quick mage over their setup and early aggression (in fact I can't see an aggressive mage wanting it at all), but mid-game maybe... but 5 mana and a weapon/shield slot? That's wand mana and slot, and the point you are starting to look at using wands also...
I think it's an interesting idea, but I've never been prepared to pay the cost. Never say never though.
I do think it's a good option to give a new player (of any school, start with it in play) to help them in the first few games, if you think they need a little edge.
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There have been several moments in three-for-all Domination matches where I wished I had a 3rd planned spell - e.g. a third possible course of action depending what my opponents chose to do. That said, often the same could have been accomplished by playing a Wand in a previous round (e.g. with Defend or Battle Fury (to double-tap an orb) or Whirling Strike (to hit guard(s) and one or more orbs), or Teleport attached) and then only needing to have two spells planned (e.g. often a wall and/or Astral Anchor and/or something to make a friendly creature Elusive or strip an enemy creature of its guard token, like Shrink or Knockdown or Tanglevine).
That said, I could imagine an alternate wizard with abilities that make better use of Mordok's Tome... (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=17348.msg80225#msg80225)
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There have been several moments in three-for-all Domination matches where I wished I had a 3rd planned spell
I can definitely see it would be more useful in multiplayer games, as the chaos factors increase hugely, and this helps you mitigate them. So yes, if you play a Wizard in multiplayer Domination (kinda specific!) then yes, it's probably worth including there, at least if you plan to have both opponents be relevant to you.
That said, I could imagine an alternate wizard with abilities that make better use of Mordok's Tome... (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=17348.msg80225#msg80225)
I'd be very interested in it as an ability on Alt Wizard....
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I think tome is a nice card, but only sometimes.
Currently I am playing a wizard based on votari throwing pals, while he basically disrupts my rival´s strategy. In this case I like using tome so that I can allways chose a dispel/dissolve apart from other things, to react on the same turn (this is a lovely play, specially as it grants a demoralizing blow). But I never use it against rush and normally not until turn 3-4. You have to be ahead on something (mana generation, attack dice on table...) to take advantage on disruption, so it´s not allways available.
Then, as I try to use tome when I can, I find I cannot use two wands in every game, and that is pushing me to throw more attack spells and incantations to be able to use them multiple times without having a wand when needed... this is not a big cost in wizard decks, but it´s something. I am wondering if I should put the tome out and also some attacks/incantations and use the SBPs to add a whirlwind spirit!!!
So, even when I play a dedicated disrupting wizard, well, I kinda like the tome, but only sometimes.
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I think the tome is completely overpowered. It gives you a flexibility the whole game. Imagine for example having a seeking dispel chosen the whole game. Then you can play your ordinary game and know that you always got a SD. And thats just a thought experiment. I can have a dispel the whole game or perhaps a nullify, you get the point.
In my experience it lets you focus on your game with both of your planned cards and still have a backup plan if something bad happens.
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I have not yet used Mordoks Tome.
But im fairly certain that its not worth casting before mid game.
The good thing about Mordoks tome is that its almost never worth a dissolve unlike a mage wand which often is.
In a game where mana and actions are tight i just can see myself cast this one. I think it has to be vs a slow book.
I think one of the strongest spells you can have as backup with this card is actually teleport while you can keep your original game plan with the 2 normal prepped cards.
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I think the tome is completely overpowered. It gives you a flexibility the whole game. Imagine for example having a seeking dispel chosen the whole game. Then you can play your ordinary game and know that you always got a SD. And thats just a thought experiment. I can have a dispel the whole game or perhaps a nullify, you get the point.
In my experience it lets you focus on your game with both of your planned cards and still have a backup plan if something bad happens.
I have added it in a book lately. But never once did I cast it. It might be good in some situations. But I for sure don't think it's OP.
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One problem might be that the tome is good globally speaking. Like having the option is definetely nice.
but in every particular round there is a locally better option, so it just doesn't see play. :D
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I think the tome is completely overpowered. It gives you a flexibility the whole game. Imagine for example having a seeking dispel chosen the whole game. Then you can play your ordinary game and know that you always got a SD. And thats just a thought experiment. I can have a dispel the whole game or perhaps a nullify, you get the point.
In my experience it lets you focus on your game with both of your planned cards and still have a backup plan if something bad happens.
What you describe is strictly worse than having a Mage Wand with Seeking Dispel on it the whole game.
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how is it strictly worse? both option let you cast sd whenever you want. But if your wand gets dispelled eg in first qc, your sd is also gone, while with the tome you still have it.
Also switching is free with tome
I would still prefer the wand, as it preserves spell points after the second or third use.
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how is it strictly worse? both option let you cast sd whenever you want. But if your wand gets dispelled eg in first qc, your sd is also gone, while with the tome you still have it.
Also switching is free with tome
I would still prefer the wand, as it preserves spell points after the second or third use.
There's no switching if you keep Seeking Dispel as your 3rd option all game, as per Rinc's thought experiment.
With the Tome, you use up the SD every time you cast it; with the Wand, you never run out of SD as long as your opponent doesn't Dissolve your Wand.
You're right, though, about losing your SD if/when your Wand gets Dissolved, but only if you never cast your SD. As long as you get 1 use out of your Wand (compared to getting 1 use out of your Tome), then the Wand is strictly better in a situation where you always choose SD as your 3rd spell option - even if it gets Dissolved.
(OK, there's another situation where a Wand isn't better: if your non-Wizard opponent uses [mwcard=FWI09]Steal Equipment[/mwcard], they'll get to keep your Mage Wand of Seeking Dispel, whereas they wouldn't get to keep your Mordok's Tome.)
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I think the tome is completely overpowered. It gives you a flexibility the whole game. Imagine for example having a seeking dispel chosen the whole game.
Seeking Dispel on a Mage Wand is far better! (and you can switch it)
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It seems I didnt think that thought experiment through. On the other hand, as soon as I put on a mage wand, it will be dissolved. The tome, I get to keep almost every time.
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It seems I didnt think that thought experiment through. On the other hand, as soon as I put on a mage wand, it will be dissolved. The tome, I get to keep almost every time.
If it's ntt worth Dissolving, then it's clearly not broken...
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It seems I didnt think that thought experiment through. On the other hand, as soon as I put on a mage wand, it will be dissolved. The tome, I get to keep almost every time.
If it's ntt worth Dissolving, then it's clearly not broken...
Either that, or the opponent does not understand the value I get from it. Anyway, only time will tell if it will be used or not. For me it´s a staple.
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ב"ה
So far, with a wand and arcane zap as options, specifically with a wizard I didn't feel I need an extra spell prepared. It takes the same slot as a wand and cost the same, but usually I prefer the spellbind trait of the wand over the versatility of the tome, especially with arcane zap as an option that exist anyway. If only it was "mordok's crown" and not compete with the wand on the same slot, it could have been a more interesting option.
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this does NOT give you an extra action, if anything it takes the same action and mana as I would use on Mana efficiency. You can only cast 2 spells a turn, so holding 3,4, or 10 cards in your hand doesn't matter. It gives you options however to punish the over committed mage, but not much else.
Just to be sure I didn't play it wrong all the the time: you actually can cast three spells, as long as they are all quick cast spell, can't you?
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this does NOT give you an extra action, if anything it takes the same action and mana as I would use on Mana efficiency. You can only cast 2 spells a turn, so holding 3,4, or 10 cards in your hand doesn't matter. It gives you options however to punish the over committed mage, but not much else.
Just to be sure I didn't play it wrong all the the time: you actually can cast three spells, as long as they are all quick cast spell, can't you?
No you cannot. You have a Quick Cast action that allows a spell and a Full action which allows a Full Action spell OR a Move and ONE quick action spell.
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this does NOT give you an extra action, if anything it takes the same action and mana as I would use on Mana efficiency. You can only cast 2 spells a turn, so holding 3,4, or 10 cards in your hand doesn't matter. It gives you options however to punish the over committed mage, but not much else.
Just to be sure I didn't play it wrong all the the time: you actually can cast three spells, as long as they are all quick cast spell, can't you?
No you cannot. You have a Quick Cast action that allows a spell and a Full action which allows a Full Action spell OR a Move and ONE quick action spell.
Whoa, that's a big mistake. Thanks for clarification.
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No. You are still restricted to all of the normal casting spells requirements. This card just gives you one extra option. So instead of preparing to spells to cast around you now prepare 3 but can still only cast 2