Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: ShamanX on October 04, 2012, 05:04:00 PM
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So my next game looks to be me as Wizard vs. Priestess. I'd love some thoughts/ideas on initial strategy, opening moves and spell type priorities. I've played a full game with the Priestess and won, I've played an apprentice game with the Wizard and lost. Thanks!
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Priestess Advice:
It really depends on how you've built your spellbook, and how aggressive a player your opponent is.
Example: Against a slower opponent who tries to build an attack base over 2-3 turns before moving in, I like to prioritize Temples, Mana, and an Archer or two. The Temple of Asyra and a Mana Crystal or Flower, or a Temple of Asyra and an Amulet to start the mana flowing. The Priestess doesn't have a lot of options for cheap characters, but a Temple and a Cleric is also a decent opening play.
Temple + Cleric = spawnpoint and a character turn 1.
Turn 2 you have 15 mana, so you can put down an Archer and give him a nice enchantment (Hawkeye is a good one to have on the Archer for obvious reasons), and use the Cleric to put mana on the Temple.
Turn 3 you have enough mana to put down a 2nd archer between your base mana supply and the 2 mana on the Temple.
That's an option that gives you decent board control with the Archers. It does, however, require a few turns of freedom from the opponent, which a Wizard may or may not give you, depending on the build.
If you think the Wizard is going to be highly aggressive, I might start with a Temple and hold a Pillar of Light in case the Wizard jumps over in your face, giving you a chance to stun or daze him while still getting your spawn point into play. If he doesn't jump into your face you've got 20 mana in the bank for turn two, so I'd again grab a pillar of light, and maybe put down a block or perhaps a Dawnstar Ring to increase the Pillar's effectiveness. Reverse Magic if you have it in your spellbook is a really solid play against the Wizard.
-nihil
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Having played some Wizard lately, my advice is:
1) The Wizard becomes much weaker if you can shoot down Huginn. Huginn's infinite defense has a 58% chance to avoid any avoidable attack, so it's best to use unavoidable attacks. Perfect Strike on a Royal Archer has a 38% chance to kill Huginn in a single shot, and a 94% chance to kill with two shots.
2) Melee units really suck against Wizard because of the Darkfenne Hydra and Suppression Cloak. The Hydra is extremely strong against other melee units. Suppression cloak is just amazingly strong period. Stick to archers and temple of light as much as possible. Legendary Angels are an exception to the no-melee rule because they are just amazingly powerful.
3) If and when you get a Legendary Angel out, keep her adequately protected with Nullifies, Reflects or Dispels so that she doesn't end up with an Essence Drain or Force Hold. Sure the wizard can spend Seeking Dispels to remove your Nullify, but that's one more round that your Angel is free to fly around and attack.
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Legendary Angels are an exception to the no-melee rule because they are just amazingly powerful.
Unless they have three weak counters on them and the Preistess doesn't have enough mana to take them off.
Hedge
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He is playing the Wizard, so while you guys had some great advice/thoughts there, anybody have any of that type of advice from the Wizard perspective?
I'm also getting ready to play this match-up, so I'm keen to learn from the more experienced among us.
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The wizard needs some escape spells in case of a buff/in your face priestess.... some people pay extra for that, but in this game, survival is key, so pack a teleport, eagle wings, etc.
Jet Stream damages and pushes, bust them up against the wall for a bonus 3 dice. Force push is great too. Against a priestess, the force orb is nice. Sleep is great too for that early big creature.
Early creatures (the thunderift falcon is completely awesome---A fast flyer cannot be underestimated.) will harass the opponent to force a reaction.
Follow that up with a mana crystal, an enchantment, or a piece of gear--- lightning ring is great.
Bottom line, to win, you have to damage.
Lightning bolt stuns and is your friend. Chain lightning is awesome too. Hawk eye boosts that along with lightning ring.
The best decks I have seen (that isn't saying much about me as I don't have massive exp) stack the mage to bust up the enemy. Wizard has built in damage reduction, so he is about as good as it gets at going hand to hand.
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Wizard advice:
1) Don't let the Priestess build up a fully staffed Temple of Asyra (2 Asyran Clerics + Harmonize) as this will summon a ridiculous number of Angels and you'll have trouble keeping up. One area-effect spell (rain of fire, chain lightning, etc.) will kill or severely injure all of the Clerics. Blue Gremlins are amazing at hunting down clerics, or if you are a creatureless build just blast them with a second Attack spell.
2) Keep Huginn alive. If she has archers, keep Huginn well out of arrow range unless you really need his spell that round. Huginn throws dispels, dissolves, and teleports so that your Mage can use his actions to drain, control, and nuke.
3) Use as many harmful enchantments as possible. The Priestess innate ability can remove Sleep, Stun and Poison but not enchantments. Essence Drain and Enfeeble are great for countering big creatures (and all of her non-Asyran Cleric creatures are big). Poisoned Blood on the Priestess herself is very useful to prevent healing.
4) You can protect your debuffs from Dispel by putting Nullify on the afflicted enemy creature.
5) If you are playing a creature Wizard, build up a "kill zone" with a hydra + gorgon + other creatures. Teleport enemy creatures into the kill zone and annihilate them in a single round of attacks. This really helps nullify the Priestess's healing. (yes, she can still resurrect, but it's more expensive)
6) If you are playing a creatureless Wizard, nuke her early and often with direct-damage spells. Every point of Mana she spends healing herself is a point of Mana that isn't summoning Angels and Knights. A creatureless wizard can't hold off large numbers of big creatures forever, but with the help of Mana Drain he can slowly wear down her healing ability. Make sure to protect your Elemental Wand with Nullify so it isn't dissolved.
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I played this match-up last night and got smoked. Reading over piousflea's advice, this seems like some really good ideas that I wish I had seen prior to the game. I think the biggest issue, as others have said, is that the Wizard takes a more skilled and suavy approach, and I lack both right now.
I felt like I was constantly behind on mana the whole game. His temple was able to pump out creatures at will, and he always seemed to have a large chunk of mana to bring out what he wanted. I got the bird shot down early as I couldn't make a defense roll at all. This was careless, but I really didn't know how to play him I guess as using him to cast incantations usually means putting him in harms way. I think I was too aggressive. He camped in his starting corner while I moved up diangnol to him, putting myself two spaces away. I had hoped to direct damage him, put he kept rolling well on his effect dice, and I felt like my wizard spent most the game stunned or at least dazed. My best move of the game was teleporting his legendary angel 2 spaces away so he couldnt' attack me that round, but that was a small reprieve. I had hopes to teleport my hydra into his grill, but that didn't work out well. I'm guess my big issue was not moving around enough. I kind of set up shop and tried to take him out. Like I said, it felt like each turn I started with 15 mana and he had upper 20's Not sure why, though he was casting very few spells with his priestess.
things I did learn though:
* I need to get in and blow up his creature factory (temple/clerics)
* teleport is really good, really, really good for a lot of things
* "Slow" creatures combined with the beef of the Gate of Voltari (sp?) means that should be cast much closer to the enemy mage
* I dont' understand how to use my creatures very well. I felt very outclassed, an not just by his angels.
* I think the wizard is probably best sticking and moving, instead of just setting up shop.
* One big heal would go a long way to helping my out if I do get in a jam.
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Replayed this match-up again, with some slightly retooled decks. I also tried to follow some of the tips on here, as well as some of my observations from the last game.
He turtled up again in his corner. I added the 1 cost falcons, and this was a really nice addition. I stole a bear strength enchanment and went after his clerics. It still took me a few turns to get there, but getting that Temple/Cleric combo shut down was key. I didn't kill the Temple, but it only getting one Mana a turn was much better than three. I also dropped my spawnpoint much closer to him. We went back and forth with a little damage, and he was still getting some good creatures out. Eventually, the threw up a wall to keep my Gorgon and Hydra from getting to him. I had picked a teleport for just such an occasion, and teleported him into the kill zone. There, my Gorgon and Hydra pounded him. I also dropped a poisen blood (with Nullify) to prevent healing. He fled, but not far enough away from the mighty Thunderbolt. Game over, win for the Wizard. Good thing too, b/c I was almost dead.
what I learned from this battle:
The kill zone idea is great. Set up your creatures, then teleport him into the kill zone so your slow creatures can get him
Poisen blood is crucial on the priestess. So is a nullify to protect it. I waited until late game, on a turn he activiated her first and had no hidden enchantments on her. I then dropped both on her. From then on, I made sure to have another nullify in hand incase he tried to clear her poisened blood off, and thus used up my nullify. He did, so I reapplied nullify to keep her health down
Don't underestimate Essence Drain. making him pay 2 mana didn't seem like much to me at first, but consider dropping 2 mana crystals costs 10 mana, and only provides an additional 2 mana a turn. That's a nice investment going forward, and if he clears it off, that's less clearance for the debuffs you want to put on his priestess or big angels
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Wizard advice:
6) If you are playing a creatureless Wizard, nuke her early and often with direct-damage spells. Every point of Mana she spends healing herself is a point of Mana that isn't summoning Angels and Knights. A creatureless wizard can't hold off large numbers of big creatures forever, but with the help of Mana Drain he can slowly wear down her healing ability. Make sure to protect your Elemental Wand with Nullify so it isn't dissolved.
I cut out most of your post hope you don't mind. Great post by the way, one question though.
Can you protect your elemental wand with a Nullify? My Nullifys say corporeal creature in the target line.
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things that would destroy the wand target the mage who has it equipped. the mage is a corporeal creature.
Hedge
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I see what you mean. I am glad that it plays this way. It makes keeping equipment on the board less difficult.
Thanks
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"Poisen blood is crucial on the priestess. So is a nullify to protect it. I waited until late game, on a turn he activiated her first and had no hidden enchantments on her. I then dropped both on her. From then on, I made sure to have another nullify in hand incase he tried to clear her poisened blood off, and thus used up my nullify. He did, so I reapplied nullify to keep her health down"
Actually, I think you played wrong. If you reveal Poisoned blood on opponent mage, you can't protect it from Dispel by using Nullify enchantment. And here is why not:
If i'm Prietess (or other Mage) and i use Dispel incantation (Destroy the target. X = total mana cost of target enchantment (hidden plus reveal cost).) to remove Poisoned blood it won't trigger Nullify, because target of this spell is not Creature but Revealed Enchantment.
Nullify works:
When this creature is targeted by an incantation or enchantment spell controlled by an opponent, you must reveal Nullify during the Counter Spell Step. That spell is countered. Then, destroy Nullify.
You can try to block Dispel incantation by Jinx enchantment though...
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"Poisen blood is crucial on the priestess. So is a nullify to protect it. I waited until late game, on a turn he activiated her first and had no hidden enchantments on her. I then dropped both on her. From then on, I made sure to have another nullify in hand incase he tried to clear her poisened blood off, and thus used up my nullify. He did, so I reapplied nullify to keep her health down"
Actually, I think you played wrong. If you reveal Poisoned blood on opponent mage, you can't protect it from Dispel by using Nullify enchantment. And here is why not:
If i'm Prietess (or other Mage) and i use Dispel incantation (Destroy the target. X = total mana cost of target enchantment (hidden plus reveal cost).) to remove Poisoned blood it won't trigger Nullify, because target of this spell is not Creature but Revealed Enchantment.
Nullify works:
When this creature is targeted by an incantation or enchantment spell controlled by an opponent, you must reveal Nullify during the Counter Spell Step. That spell is countered. Then, destroy Nullify.
You can try to block Dispel incantation by Jinx enchantment though...
Jinx is the card you would need
Jinx
When this creature casts a quick spell, you must reveal Jinx during the Counter Spell Step. That spell is canceled and is returned to its owner’s spellbook. Any mana spent to cast that spell is refunded to the caster’s mana supply. Then, destroy Jinx.
The thing to remember when using jinx is that all it does is buy you time. It does not stop the problem. :blink:
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I also played the wizard against a Priestes, and i realy got screwed up, 5 (!!) times in a row!!!
I tried different tactics, but always without any creatures in my Book!
There was always this turningpoint in the game when everything tipped over!
I tried to limit her mana with Siphon, Mordoks Obelisk and Supression Orb, which are all quite costly.
In this time a damaged her with Lightningbolts and such things, but after some time i was overrun by a hord of knights and angels! :(
The tempel combo is realy brutal!! Shot me with Tempel of Light and summoned and healed with the other ones!
I must say my opponent playes the Priestes like a Warlock, super aggresiv, marching forward not wasting a thought on getting damage! But this realy worked out quite well, fife out of fife times......
Is the only way to deal with her to get rid of her spawning tempel and the clerics?
Meanwhile it's very frustrating! :(
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I had two similar games last night but playing the Priestess against a Wizard using a very similar strategy.
Mordok's Obelisk is good but against the Priestess I would add the Suppression Orb and Mana Siphon and then sent out Creatures specifically to target Temples and Mana Crystals or Flowers.
You can lock down a Priestess quite well but at some point you need to start doing damage to her Temple structure and Creatures or you will get taken out.
As such I think that Mordok's Obelisk is counter-productive since it damages you as much as it damages the Priestess especially if it pushes you to do a Creature light list.
There are some really great Enchantments that you can use to also lock down her Creatures such as Essence Drain, Force Hold and Pacify. Essence Drain and Pacify are great if you already have
the Suppression Orb out as it really starts to eat the Priestess' Mana supply.
If you are using Huginn, Raven Familiar then you should have some additional Mana each turn as he can cast things like Dispel and Seeking Dispel for you so you should be able to easily afford things like Gate to Voltari and then use it to summon some big nasties like the Darkfenne Hydra.
So lock down her Creatures, hunt down her Temples and then send things like the Hydra at her and you should do well.
I'd also suggest rushing her with creatures like the Blue Gremlin. Putting the Priestess off balance and not letting her set up a series of Temples also helps limit the amount of damage that she can do in return.
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Thank you for the great reply!
Hmm, so what you're saying is, adding Creatures to my book is recommended?
I liked the idea of playing without, but it seems rather impossible!
Maybe i should try the Gate to Voltari, as you said!
The game before i cornered the beastmasters lair with two walls of fire, and locked up his creatures that way! That was pretty cool :) Should try this on the Princess temple...
So enhance mana first, playing mana Crystal and Moonglow A. with harmonize, than the Gate and than rushing forward bashing the spawning temple to dust... :) ignoring her temple of light and hoping some of my creature from my Gate will handle it later... :)
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... Then not than... Sorry for my spelling... :blink:
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That is certainly a route I would try. It is certainly what I was hoping my opponent wouldn't try last night :-)