Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Player Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Iudicium86 on April 07, 2016, 08:38:42 PM
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In discussions with other players about Warlord, an idea evolved regarding his Battle Orders.
They are limited to zone-only at time of casting, which makes positional maintenance a pain when trying to manage more creatures. They are also much weaker or less efficient versions of some of the other real command spells. In addition, the Battle Orders lose much of their uniqueness when the better versions of the commands are only marginally more in mana, available to other mages (with most at novice cost) and actually worth the precious Quick Cast action a Battle Order takes up.
On Guard! - 1 mana, in-zone only, Melee & Armor gain +1, only while guarding.
Brace Yourself - 2 mana, has a range 0-2, gives armor+4, for rest of round as well. Accessible to other mages, at novice level.
Hold the Line! - 1 mana, in-zone only, Armor +1 and Toughness -2
Glancing Blow (upcoming Academy card) - 2 mana, 0-2 range, 3 less attack die for that enemy action. Effectively a 2 mana cost single use Aegis 3 enchantment. Or one cost with an enchanter ring. Also, yet again available to other mages at novice cost.
To Battle! - 1 mana, in-zone only, Charge +1 (effectively just a Melee +1 only if you happen to take a move action)
Power Strike - 2 mana, 0-2 range, Melee +2, also available to other mages at novice cost.
Take Aim! - 1 mana, in-zone only, ranged gains piercing +2 for one attack.
Sniper Shot - 3 mana, 0-2 range, piecing +1 and unavoidable (which can be argued to be valuable). If used with a Archer's Watchtower, then it also gains a free Ranged +1 to the acting creature further increasing its mana efficiency. These two cards are also available to other mages.
Or compare to Piercing Strike. While for melee and not ranged, it costs 2 mana, 0-2 range, gives a piercing +3 bonus, and yet again available to other mages at novice cost.
Also, mind you, any of these command incantations could also be attached to a Helm of Command anyways. Even better if you use Runsmithing for mana-1.
This of course seems like the ideas are for large swarms, and of course lets not forget Horn of Gothos. However, if you use the horn then you can't also use the Warlord's main weapon. You must settle for a one-handed weapon or an elemental wand attached with most likely an Earth Attack spell.
So the idea toward making this work is making the Battle Orders a free action at the very least, with a range of 0-1. Then Horn of Gothos changes the Battle Orders to an actual Quick Spell to take the current arena-wide effect, paid as normal.
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All of the command spells you mention are single target only. The virtue of the fact that battle orders can affect every friendly creature in your zone makes the balance point based on number of creatures that will benefit and not really actions spent.
At what point does Charge +1 become better than power strike? Probably 2 creatures. since you're giving +2 attack dice at a reduced cost. Similar calculations can be made regarding the rest of the commands and battle orders.
Additionally, Battle Orders give the Warlord flexibilty. You can prepare two spells and have three other buff spells waiting if you need them on any given turn.
Horn of Gothos is for the Warlord who is the general in the back rather than the front. I highly recommend giving it a try with even only 3 creatures. See how it goes.
I agree that we don't see the orders used that often. Perhaps someone should show us how it's done. Any takers?
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Try the Warlord in Domination.
"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women." Seriously, Warlord doesn't need help in Domination.
Play Wizard and Forcemaster and Warlock in Arena, Warlord and Beastmaster and Druid in Domination, Necromancer in either, and you'll do just fine.
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There's more to Battle Orders than You think.
They don't target any creature so they can't be nullified, even an Arcane Ward cast on zone with Warlord won't prevent Battle Orders as those are neither Incantation or Enchantment.
Depending on your book You may want to run [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ03]Eisenach's Forge Hammer[/mwcard] instead of [mwcard=FWQ11]War Sledge[/mwcard]. Then You will have a free hand for the Horn. If You want to use the Horn then I doubt You will find yourself in situation where a full action sweeping attack from your mage would be best choice often.
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There's more to Battle Orders than You think.
They don't target any creature so they can't be nullified, even an Arcane Ward cast on zone with Warlord won't prevent Battle Orders as those are neither Incantation or Enchantment.
Depending on your book You may want to run [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ03]Eisenach's Forge Hammer[/mwcard] instead of [mwcard=FWQ11]War Sledge[/mwcard]. Then You will have a free hand for the Horn. If You want to use the Horn then I doubt You will find yourself in situation where a full action sweeping attack from your mage would be best choice often.
I'm not hating on the warlord, because he's one of my favourite mages, but his battle orders are just NEVER worth the quick action without the horn. You always have better things to do.
I have never had good use of the horn even though I really tried. With the horn you need an extra action + 3 mana to cast the horn and afterwards 1 command will cost you 3+1 mana.. Again totally not worth it.
--> theoretically the horn is useful in swarm builds, but for those builds, I don't have a battle forge, nor mana to spare.
The warlords have some awesome tactics, but the battle orders are, according to me, the worst mage abilities by far. (the johktari's wounded prey and the veterans probably after those)
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There's more to Battle Orders than You think.
They don't target any creature so they can't be nullified, even an Arcane Ward cast on zone with Warlord won't prevent Battle Orders as those are neither Incantation or Enchantment.
Depending on your book You may want to run [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ03]Eisenach's Forge Hammer[/mwcard] instead of [mwcard=FWQ11]War Sledge[/mwcard]. Then You will have a free hand for the Horn. If You want to use the Horn then I doubt You will find yourself in situation where a full action sweeping attack from your mage would be best choice often.
I'm not hating on the warlord, because he's one of my favourite mages, but his battle orders are just NEVER worth the quick action without the horn. You always have better things to do.
I have never had good use of the horn even though I really tried. With the horn you need an extra action + 3 mana to cast the horn and afterwards 1 command will cost you 3+1 mana.. Again totally not worth it.
--> theoretically the horn is useful in swarm builds, but for those builds, I don't have a battle forge, nor mana to spare.
The warlords have some awesome tactics, but the battle orders are, according to me, the worst mage abilities by far. (the johktari's wounded prey and the veterans probably after those)
demonic reward, also has very few real uses
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There's more to Battle Orders than You think.
They don't target any creature so they can't be nullified, even an Arcane Ward cast on zone with Warlord won't prevent Battle Orders as those are neither Incantation or Enchantment.
Depending on your book You may want to run [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ03]Eisenach's Forge Hammer[/mwcard] instead of [mwcard=FWQ11]War Sledge[/mwcard]. Then You will have a free hand for the Horn. If You want to use the Horn then I doubt You will find yourself in situation where a full action sweeping attack from your mage would be best choice often.
I'm not hating on the warlord, because he's one of my favourite mages, but his battle orders are just NEVER worth the quick action without the horn. You always have better things to do.
I have never had good use of the horn even though I really tried. With the horn you need an extra action + 3 mana to cast the horn and afterwards 1 command will cost you 3+1 mana.. Again totally not worth it.
--> theoretically the horn is useful in swarm builds, but for those builds, I don't have a battle forge, nor mana to spare.
The warlords have some awesome tactics, but the battle orders are, according to me, the worst mage abilities by far. (the johktari's wounded prey and the veterans probably after those)
I think battle orders work well with a squad of soldiers rather than individual soldiers. So you need a good team to take into battle and use the battle order action to enhance them each round. The Captain familiar can help by expanding the location from which your battle orders can be cast. This strategy also works better if you plan on taking a battle order action each round rather than quickcast another spell. With the command ring the mana cost for the action is zero. With your main action you can plan to summon every other turn and attack between summoning turns. I.e. you plan your strategy with a spend plan of 18 mana every other round rather than spending 9 mana each round. This approach allows you to build a team of elite soldiers rather than try and swarm with lower level creatures.
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I think battle orders work well with a squad of soldiers rather than individual soldiers. So you need a good team to take into battle and use the battle order action to enhance them each round. The Captain familiar can help by expanding the location from which your battle orders can be cast. This strategy also works better if you plan on taking a battle order action each round rather than quickcast another spell. With the command ring the mana cost for the action is zero. With your main action you can plan to summon every other turn and attack between summoning turns. I.e. you plan your strategy with a spend plan of 18 mana every other round rather than spending 9 mana each round. This approach allows you to build a team of elite soldiers rather than try and swarm with lower level creatures.
Might actually be a very good idea.. I'll try to build a deck around it and give it a try!
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the good thing of course if you compare them to the incantations: they cost no spellbook points, and if you have your two goblin slingers gain piercing +2 anyway planned you can prepare two spells for your other action depending what happens.
Giving Ludwig Boltstrom the command just came to my mind: Zone attack 3 dice piercing or tripple strike with pierce +2 is also nice.
it gives you kind of flexibility and i proabably as Dwarf doesnt have to have charge so often as I can just give them fast when I'm in the same zone of course (without horn) without using a spellbook point, which then increases my overall flexibility in spellpoints so i could include more of the pay tripple cost arcanes.
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Buy dominación, play warlord, win.
That said, i think warlord are not as up as people say. But, like every other game, people tebd to cry over balance issues. I think that warlord need some chances, but he is not unplayable
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I think the warlord's battle orders are just something most people haven't quite figured out yet. If you're not using the horn then you're going to want to be in the same zone as your creatures a lot of the time. You're going to want to concentrate your creatures in the same zone, and then move them together. Or maybe you can have more than one "squad" and use different groups at different times, or exchange creatures from one group to another or something.
This means that, if you're not using the horn, then you have to have creatures that are big enough to survive zone attacks and keep going.
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I was thinking, that if Siren can be skilled in Pirate creatures, can Warlord be skilled in Soldiers? Would not this break the balance?
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Im talking purely from an arena perspective (no domination experience).
The warlord war cries sucks big time and the reason is the same as why the corresponding incantations sucks.
They are simply not good enough for their cost / action compared to their corresponding enchantment.
(ie power strike vs bear strength.)
Actions are just too damn valuable.
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I agree 100% for the warlord's battlecries, but not for commands in general. :P For me they work if you are spending most of your mana on your spawnpoints or casting big things (battleforge, barracks, ...). As a warlord, I like using my full action to melee attack something and my quick action to cast a command or something else that won't cost much. Then I can save up 5-7 mana for my spawnpoints each round.
btw: I tried using the battleorders with 3 creatures but it went as bad as before. Also, I can"t seem to make Gurmash work even though I really tried. I keep wanting to use his attack instead of a command spell. Mostly he ends up with 3-4 mana before the opponent kills him.
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I agree with Jack's and Halewijn's arguments.
I feel like the Warlord should be allowed to cast one of his built-in commands as a FREE ACTION once per round ( use a ready marker to keep track ) before or after a friendly creature activation.
Same reasoning for Gurmash.
He's only worth it if he can shout out a Command AND attack during the same round ( should work like a QC for him imo )
I mean, even from a reality standpoint, why can't he shout and fight at the same time ? :)
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Warlords' Battle orders shouldn't be compared to enchantments, but to spells like [mwcard=MW1I03]Call of the Wild[/mwcard] or [mwcard=DNI06]Zombie Frenzy[/mwcard]. The orders are always prepared and don't cost sbp.
One of the advantages of commands over enchantments is versatility. You don't have to fear that after casting [mwcard=FWI06]Power Strike[/mwcard] on level 1 creature, the creature will die before it can benefit enough from the spell as opposed to [mwcard=MW1E01]Bear Strength[/mwcard]. If You got your opponent to 0 armor it makes no difference if additional two dice are used by Thorg or goblin grunt.
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What if [mwcard=FWQ06]Horn of Gothos[/mwcard] applied to Command Spells instead of just Battle Orders? Suddenly those Commands like Power/Piercing/Critical Strike, Sniper Shot, Battle Fury and Whirling Strike look a lot better when you can pay an extra 3 mana to apply them to your whole army! (More like Zombie Frenzy and Call of the Wild).
*edit* Might need some word smithing; non-Enchantment Command spells or something, since casting or revealing a Brace Yourself shouldn't interact with the Horn.
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*edit* Might need some word smithing; non-Enchantment Command spells or something, since casting or revealing a Brace Yourself shouldn't interact with the Horn.
Command incantations?
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I feel like the Warlord should be allowed to cast one of his built-in commands as a FREE ACTION once per round ( use a ready marker to keep track ) before or after a friendly creature activation.
Seems a great idea to boost the warlords since the action is the main issue for the commands. However, the mana cost might have to be rechecked for balance afterwards.
Same reasoning for Gurmash.
He's only worth it if he can shout out a Command AND attack during the same round ( should work like a QC for him imo )
I mean, even from a reality standpoint, why can't he shout and fight at the same time ? :)
Of course, Gurmash should have to do it before or after his attack.
Warlords' Battle orders shouldn't be compared to enchantments, but to spells like [mwcard=MW1I03]Call of the Wild[/mwcard] or [mwcard=DNI06]Zombie Frenzy[/mwcard]. The orders are always prepared and don't cost sbp.
yeah, but have you used those two spells much? I think I have seen call of the wild twice in total.
Zombie Frenzy is amazing if the right situation arrives, but is also incredibely situational.
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*edit* Might need some word smithing; non-Enchantment Command spells or something, since casting or revealing a Brace Yourself shouldn't interact with the Horn.
Command incantations?
It could say "when he casts a Command Incantation or uses his Battle Orders ability..." Or it could say "when he casts a non-Enchantment Command spell..." since Battle Orders counts as a Command spell. The text needs to be able to fit on the card.