Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Archwizard07 on June 18, 2014, 10:12:06 PM
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So I know that it is currently the fashion to play an early aggro style spellbook and rush the opposing mage as soon as possible, but that's not my style.
I prefer 4-5 rounds to really let my master plan unfold, which means I frequently need to find a reasonable way to hold off the early rush.
My favorite moves for rushing mages are
1) Walls - often expensive and sometimes quickly beaten down, but they can also buy me a round or two
2) Blocks - cheap, disenchantable, and side stepped by unavoidable attacks, but again they can buy a round
Even using my preferred methods, many games I am racing the "life clock" to get my game plan in motion and survive the initial onslaught, but hey, that's my style.
So how do you other spell slingers slow/halt the early rush?
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Tanglevine and Enfeeble can slow it down nicely sometimes. You can also go Surging Wave someone and knock them backwards with a Slam if you're lucky.
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Here a few things for you to think about:
1) Summon a "hard to kill" creature, guard, and support that creature
2) [mwcard=MW1E38] Teleport Trap[/mwcard] (super useful)
3) [mwcard=MW1E14] Enfeeble[/mwcard]
4) [mwcard=MW1I28] Teleport[/mwcard]
5) Armor plus [mwcard=DNQ07] Veteran's Belt[/mwcard]
6) [mwcard=DNJ10] Stranglevine[/mwcard]
7) [mwcard=MW1J22] Tanglevine[/mwcard]
8) [mwcard=MW1E11] Divine Intervention[/mwcard]
9) [mwcard=DNQ08] Vinewhip Staff[/mwcard]
10) [mwcard=MW1I12] Force Push[/mwcard]
11) [mwcard=MW1A09] Jet Stream[/mwcard]
12) [mwcard=MW1C35] Stonegaze Basilisk[/mwcard]
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[mwcard=MW1W04]Wall of Thorns[/mwcard] + [mwcard=MW1I12]Force Push[/mwcard] (x2) and/or [mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKC07]Dwarf Panzergarde[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKC08]Gargoyle Sentry[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C18]Gorgon Archer[/mwcard]
If you are a Druid spread your Vine Markers all over the board.
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Divine Intervention is fantastic for this. Remember to try to counter something juicy with this if you get the chance, or at least cancel an attack.
Playing a bit of armor can go a long way. Particularly Dragonscale Hauberk/Elemental Cloak against Lord of Fire. You can go all the way to 5+ armor and Veteran's Belt, but I think every build should run at least 3 armor for their mage.
With my Johktari Beastmaster, I put creatures in the way, and then try to maintain range 2. My opponent is typically hindered by my creatures, and I can use Tanglevine, Teleport, Mongoose Agility, and Surging Wave to help me maintain that range. Hindering + running away is a great way to slow down aggro.
For more passive builds, I like to use Block, but a defense like Deflection Bracers or Cobra Reflexes can help too.
Gorgon Archer supported by Teleport, Tanglevine, Teleport Trap, and other position control can really hurt many rushes. Once you've stacked enough Weak conditions on your opponent's creatures, they're not nearly as threatening.
Tough guards go a long way. Pet Timber Wolf and Iron Golem particularly come to mind, as they are relatively cheap for their stats, can go toe to toe with an aggressive mage, and are just solid options.
Agony can be huge, particularly on creatures with Doublestrike/Triplestrike/Sweeping. It's my favorite thing to play on an enemy Brogan or Lord of Fire.
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Tanglevine and Enfeeble can slow it down nicely sometimes. You can also go Surging Wave someone and knock them backwards with a Slam if you're lucky.
Good suggestions, but not particularly effective against an experienced player. When running aggro, I choose Teleport nearly every turn as a backup in anticipation of my opponent playing some kind of movement or control.
I also usually play Nullify no later than the first quick cast of turn 2 to counter many of the cards mentioned.
Guards are easily avoided with [mwcard=MW1E28] Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]. Plan on your aggro opponent to be packing two, and perhaps even the elusive [mwcard=MW1C07] Cervere, The Forest Shadow[/mwcard].
Defenses are a similar story: count on your opponent having a Falcon Precision or two.
Be aware of the power of the power of [mwcard=MW1I23] Rouse the Beast[/mwcard]. Your opponent will be looking to start a turn in your square, have your mage tap out, then summon and rouse a heavy hitter. Ideally the hitter will be summoned on a turn when the aggro mage does not have initiative, so he can first quick cast a Jinx the following turn and have the hitter get in another full attack. Keep hitting your opponent with effects that make him burn actions, so he does not have tempo to drop Rouse the Beast.
Things that disrupt aggro:
- Destroy their Battle Forge. Many aggro books will stall out if starved for actions.
- Alternatively, put a LOS blocking wall between the Battle Forge and the aggro mage. Very annoying.
- Agony. Usefully in nearly every book.
- A carefully timed [mwcard=MW1I09] Drain Power[/mwcard] is very effective at stalling. Due to the high spellbook cost, this is likely to only be an option for Wizards.
- Previous statements about Nullify and Mongoose Agility notwithstanding, the new FIF cards Defend and Fumble are strong against the rush. Disarm also has possibilities.
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Without support, Cervere doesn't hit hard enough to deter me. If I have 2 Armor, eh, whatever.
Sure, Mongoose Agility and Falcon Precision allow you to ignore guards and defenses respectively, but only with one creature. If you're only attacking me with one creature, there are a lot of options for trying to avoid you and make you waste actions, plus your damage output is not going to be as scary.
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Traps, teleports and putting out a medium to large creature early on
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Teleport Trap is a pretty damn effective way to repel an aggro.
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All great stuff! Also while we all know there is a way to counter any strategy I appreciate that this didn't devolve into that!
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[mwcard=MW1E09]Agony [/mwcard], [mwcard=MW1E14]Enfeeble [/mwcard] and Armor counter early aggro best imho.
It's too easy to play around guards and armor alone is too easily corroded.
Armor comboed with defensive curses is the most effective way I can think of to stop early aggro.
I actually don't play defensive books, so this is what I find toughest to play aggro against.
EDIT:
Also just having a hidden enchtantment on you can save you from a Wall+Push combo because the "threat" of revealing a RhinoHide or Nullify forces the aggressor to spend an action (and by that slowing down) to deal with that.
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Teleport Trap is a pretty damn effective way to repel an aggro.
I agree. Teleport Trap has saved my life many times playing as wizard. It doesn't do much against swarms but against large threats it can work very well.
When it comes to defending aggro I usually choose one of the following: delay tactics (walls, traps, force push, teleport, teleport trap, tanglevine, etc); creatures that make excellent guards; protective enchantments & equipment; or aggression (fight fire with fire). The one I choose depends on what mages are in play.
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put 2 x velt belt(mayabe 3x ) + 3armor in your spellbook.
only need 12 mana and 5~9 spellpoint
This will save you efficently from most of rush (even bears).
And force your oppenent to dissolve velt belt again & again
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Be aware of the power of the power of [mwcard=MW1I23] Rouse the Beast[/mwcard]. Your opponent will be looking to start a turn in your square, have your mage tap out, then summon and rouse a heavy hitter. Ideally the hitter will be summoned on a turn when the aggro mage does not have initiative, so he can first quick cast a Jinx the following turn and have the hitter get in another full attack. Keep hitting your opponent with effects that make him burn actions, so he does not have tempo to drop Rouse the Beast.
Hello everyone! I'm pretty new here (as you can see), in fact, I just played my 3rd game of Mage Wars last night. I was teaching a friend to play and he did something interesting. He bound [mwcard=MW1I23] Rouse the Beast[/mwcard] onto his wand which made me think that an opening of something like that with a Mana Crystal followed by Ring of Beasts and a Summon could be an effective opening play for the Beastmaster. Granting every creature you cast from turn 2 on "haste" seems pretty strong. Anyone had success with that type of opening play?
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Be aware of the power of the power of [mwcard=MW1I23] Rouse the Beast[/mwcard]. Your opponent will be looking to start a turn in your square, have your mage tap out, then summon and rouse a heavy hitter. Ideally the hitter will be summoned on a turn when the aggro mage does not have initiative, so he can first quick cast a Jinx the following turn and have the hitter get in another full attack. Keep hitting your opponent with effects that make him burn actions, so he does not have tempo to drop Rouse the Beast.
Yes actually this has worked for me in the past. Since most of the Beast Masters early game creatures are normally Level 1 creatures like Falcons and what not this can be a VERY good plan to surprise an opponent with an early game swarm.
Hello everyone! I'm pretty new here (as you can see), in fact, I just played my 3rd game of Mage Wars last night. I was teaching a friend to play and he did something interesting. He bound [mwcard=MW1I23] Rouse the Beast[/mwcard] onto his wand which made me think that an opening of something like that with a Mana Crystal followed by Ring of Beasts and a Summon could be an effective opening play for the Beastmaster. Granting every creature you cast from turn 2 on "haste" seems pretty strong. Anyone had success with that type of opening play?
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While I tend to quick cast Teleport Trap in my zone on turn two to give myself some extra time, I also sometimes cast a reasonable "defensive" creature on the first turn where I think that my opponent or his likely turn one creature might try to get to my Mage early. The creatures that I usually choose are: Devouring Jelly with Wizard (hard to kill and hard to ignore), Bobcat pet with Beastmaster (defense plus the extra hit points both help), and Skeletal Knight Eternal Servant with Necromancer.
This isn't the way I typically like to start a game with these Mages, but you need to have more than one opening plan, since you have to be able to handle all kinds of openings from your opponents... aggressive or otherwise.
The Mages that I see as potentially aggressive include: Forcemaster, Warlock, and Holy mages in general (due to Divine Intervention).
Also... if you don't have a Teleport Trap, quick casting a Decoy in your zone can have the effect of warding off the use of Divine Intervention in particular. The theory is that your opponent will presume that you have a Teleport Trap in the zone, and not want to "waste" the 10 mana to reveal the spell on his Necro Vampiress (or whatever).
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In my experience, Divine Intervention is much stronger defensively than offensively, particularly early in the game. I've never been impressed by the offensive opportunities afforded by Divine Intervention rushes. If my opponent wants to spend 12 mana and an incredibly strong Epic spell to attack me in a way that they could have accomplished with a Teleport anyway (unless they wanted to make a full attack with the creature), they're welcome to.
Any mage can be aggressive, but I expect it more from the Warlock, Forcemaster, and Straywood Beastmaster.
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Divine Intervention does too many things for me to spend it on harassment. You absolutely can use it to get something in your opponent's grill on turn two. It's not a bad play, but it is one dimensional. You're going all in from turn two on, with limited mana and options for following turns. If your opponent has a "solution" to your harasser then you're left in a very bad spot, and all it takes is a few spellpoints to have an "answer" to a rush like this.
In my experience, many of these builds relied on dropping out many Hand of Bim-Shalla's and a Temple of Light. They were able to put out this infrastructure even with the mana demands of Divine Intervention. However, Hand of Bim-Shalla became unique and that puts a serious roadblock in this style of play.
At the end of the day, Divine Intervention is one of those cards that does something no other card does (similar to Enchantment Transfusion). You're better off trying to take advantage of those things than using it as a "super teleport".
To me the key to any rush strategy is sustained pressure. There are several mages who can provide that, and those are what I would go to for a "rush" spellbook.
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My favorite "rush" opening right now (I only have the Core Set) is with the Beastmaster.
T1 - Move 2 up and towards center, QC [mwcard=MW1C37]Thunderift Falcon[/mwcard] and pay 2 for Pet. (-8 = 11 mana remaining)
T2 - Move 1 and cast [mwcard=MW1Q30]Staff of Beasts[/mwcard]. (-7 = 13 mana remaining)
With very little investment I have the potential of a 7 attack die Fast/Flying combatant on turn 2 with Mana and flexibility to build from there. If my opponent is playing defensively I can cast a Mana generator and fall back on a Lair to control center with a spawnpoint to go for a swarm set up or if I want to pour on the aggro I can follow up by casting [mwcard=MW1Q19]Mage Wand[/mwcard] and binding something like [mwcard=MW1I02]Battle Fury[/mwcard], activate both wands and roll 14 attack dice with my Falcon.
As far as countering goes, I hate playing re-actively so I would try to think of something long term that would continue to be an answer for future problems...something like binding [mwcard=MW1A06]Flameblast[/mwcard] or [mwcard=MW1A02]Chain Lightning[/mwcard] early to try and eliminate their threats while I build my own.
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Thunderift Falcon pet is one of the best harassment tools in the game. It's cheap, and you can play it as your final quick cast on a turn you do not have the initiative. He demands an immediate answer. Otherwise your opponent will have to deal with at least 4 dice each turn. He's a favorite play. There is a reason he ended up on my list of favorite pets.
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@ Blackirishguilt
You won't roll 14 dice with your Falcon, you'll roll 10. The first attack will be 3 dice + 4 dice from Melee +X traits. The attack from Battle Fury will not benefit from the Melee +X traits, and will only be 3 dice. You're actually much better off attacking with your mage and your Falcon, as you would get a 7 dice and a 4 dice attack, and it wouldn't cost you mana or require the setup of a wand.
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@ Blackirishguilt
You won't roll 14 dice with your Falcon, you'll roll 10. The first attack will be 3 dice + 4 dice from Melee +X traits. The attack from Battle Fury will not benefit from the Melee +X traits, and will only be 3 dice. You're actually much better off attacking with your mage and your Falcon, as you would get a 7 dice and a 4 dice attack, and it wouldn't cost you mana or require the setup of a wand.
Good call sdoug...as I said I'm still learning. :P
I was all ready to fight you on it but then I saw the relevant ruling in the Codex under Melee +X. Quick feedback: it would probably be helpful if that was somewhere on the attack modifier page of the rulebook as well.
Back on topic: What's the general consensus on Walls at hindering early aggression or "shaping" the battlefield? I've been experimenting with a T1 Move up 1, cast [mwcard=MW1J10]Lair[/mwcard] NC, QC [mwcard=MW1Q25]Ring of Beasts [/mwcard], T2 double [mwcard=MW1W04]Wall of Thorns[/mwcard] to fence myself in and start building an army on T3 with a [mwcard=MW1J13]Mana Flower[/mwcard] effectively Channeling +4 for animal spells. I realize I'm weak to flame attacks here but if they are taking actions either attacking or moving around my walls I'm okay with that. In sample openings I can have a pet [mwcard=MW1C37]Thunderift Falcon[/mwcard] and an [mwcard=MW1C12]Emerald Tegu[/mwcard] out by T4 pretty easily along with another [mwcard=MW1J13]Mana Flower[/mwcard] to generate towards larger creatures.
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I have been a fan of walls as a form of battlefield control since the beginning, which makes me very excited for the new dwarf who can add armor or reconstruct walls!!
Most of my spell books involve a spawn point on T1 and then preperation for an extended wall on T2 or 3.
This usually gives me an extra turn or two for getting my mana and spells in order.
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I rarely make much use of walls, and I've been meaning to try including them more in my play.
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Just yesterday I tried the Pet Falcon rush mentioned above. Good stuff!
My opponent (turtling Priestess) had initiative on turn two and played a Bloodspine Wall (which didn't stop the Falcon, of course, but it stopped my Mage from running over and punch the Priestess). The Falcon did some decent damage and my opponent panicked so actually played Banish on it! 14 mana and 6 spellbook points on a creature worth 8 mana and 1 spellbook point. 8)
Since he was still without armour, I Force Pushed him through a Wall of Thorns twice and that was pretty much it.
After the game, he said he should've equipped some armour/defense instead of the wall, and I think I agree. Banish was a good idea, I think (although it was so expensive), but he didn't use the time to set up some defense.
In any case, early rushes can be extremely frightening if you go for a long-term strategy - and this is when people make mistakes.
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Just go on guard...the counter strike will kill it real quick. A bit of armor and a Bear Strength = Rotisserie Chicken....
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Instead of (or along with) guarding, a damage barrier would be good. You keep the ability to use your actions if you wish and still do damage to the offending falcon.