Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Diji on July 02, 2013, 10:59:25 AM
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My fellow Mages,
This year Mage Wars was a nominee for best board game at the Origins Game Fair and the Arcane Wonders team did a great job in getting the vote out. Unfortunately, we came just short and Lords of Waterdeep (a great game in its own right) took the top spot. :-[
I'm convinced that this game has one of the better if not the BEST player cores out there. We help each other refine spell books, share new ideas and strategies and then square up in the arena - I might be biased, but I'm simialrly convinced that the game has more to offer than LoWaterdeep and many other games for that matter. And so upon a recent visit to boardgamegeek.com, I noticed that Mage Wars has made the leap from the forties to the thirties (as it concerns popular board game rankings) and that got me very excited. Mage Wars is tracking at 37 overall, Waterdeep is 29. Am I crazy to think that it's within range? (0-8, 8)) I don't know, but in any case I've resolved that my mission is to see them one spot below this clearly superior game of ours.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting or endorsing sabotaging LoW or harassing those with a negative opinion toward Mage Wars. I have a BGG account, I own LoW, I scored it a nine and it'll stay that way. To be the best you have to beat the best and Mage Wars has rightfully earned its placement by proving its value to the board game community. By staying the course we're already poised to accompany the likes of the elite - I hope you will join me in my mission, our mission, to further showcase the greatness of a game we love.
Thanks.
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I agree with everything above. It'll happen, before GenCon. Then we will go to GenCon and celebrate, after I drive 6-ish hours.
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Yezir!! But here's the thing... If I had your car I'd love being on the open road.
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That's what I said! Who wouldn't love driving a dart?
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It's not so much the time driving her, it's the miles.
But here's the thing: I'm still way more excited for GenCon then I should be.
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For the uninitiated, Sarkath has quite the impressive automobile. Side-note, he is also a professional puppeteer.
But here's the thing... that second part is a lie.
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I feel your love, but what are you suggesting we actually DO?
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I don't get the point of the post either.
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Great question.
My suggestions:
-If you haven't already, sign up for an account @ boardgamegeek.com and give Mage Wars your honest review score.
-Participate in the BGG forums by helping out new players with questions and offer up suggestions for them to try and make there experiences more enjoyable.
-Go to your local game shop and teach your friends how to play. If they enjoy the game - ask them if they would go to boardgamegeek.com and show some love.
-"Like" the official Mage Wars Facebook page. Post comments, meet people in your area that love the game.
-Contribute in any other way you can - write-up an epic play session or review on BGG, if you use custom cut outs or minis with your set - post some pictures, (a tournament player at Origins had a Forcemaster mini that was DOPE!) sign up to be an ambassador, encourage your FLGS to run tournaments, find players in your area and start a league.
-Etc. ;D
Personally, I am never more interested in a game than when I feel every person except me is playing and/or knows how to play it. Exposure is paramount in achieving this effect and by getting together at your FLGS and inviting onlookers to come spectate your games, running tournaments and the like we can bring more people into the fold. Im sure we are in collective agreement that Mage Wars is masterclass, and from what I can tell, the retention rate for this game is very high meaning we only need to get people's feet wet and metaphorically speaking, we do that by flooding the room with water... or blood, if that's your thing.
But here's the thing... blood will stain your jean cuffs, wear the black windbreakers.
Thanks for question Fentum!
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I hear you Texan. The initial post was a not real detailed about how to achieve said goal.
But the primary objective of the post (beyond smashing LoW) is to go out and get people excited about the game! Conference season is the time of the year where people are really excited about trying out new games. Everyone on this forum loves the game, I just want to encourage people to stretch that out to across other avenues online and in their local shops.
By the way, Padwan and I got some things cooking that we should be providing info about in the coming weeks.
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It's all about hitting the pavement, sometimes for long drives, to help spread this game.
I'm scared about what you two have planned; it can't be good.
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Here's the thing: In order to maintain a healthy lifestyle, one must drink eight 8oz glasses of water a day.
As well, it's not good. It's incredible. Bigger than country in the South man.
Expanding the community to include everyone that would even THINK about playing Mage Wars is the goal. Right now, we are David, facing the insurmountable Goliath. We need more Davids. And moar DoTs.
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Ok man. I got you.
I am fairly active on BGG and ALREADY scored Mage Wars a ten.
I introduced three guys to the physical game so far.
I posted up on these forums and BGG ref the OCTGN site. MAN THAT IS KEY TO THE SUCCESS OF THE GAME.
I have lovingly nurtured a couple of news guys on OCTGN, having been lovingly nurtured there myself.
The number one thing that would improve the player base is an easy to use spell book / online system or app.
So go out and spread the love.
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This could have been solved by tldr:
And I watched lords of waterdeep how to vids, and I think the game looks dumb. But more than that it is very unlike Mage wars, but I do agree everyone on here should help support MW on BGG with word of mouth and general word of mouth.
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Hope everyone had a great 4th! Quick update - we've jumped from 37 to 36! That's awesome!
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Told you man, top 15 by Gencon. Bet money.
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I'll bet you money it won't get that high. The BGG audience isn't a great fit for it.
It should go higher than LoW though. That is clearly not a top 50 game.
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I agree that I would be shocked if it hit top 15, BGG is way too Euro-game centric for games like Mage Wars to get that high, but it's possible I suppose. I'd be thrilled if this game made top 25 honestly.
Personally, I just want it to top Summoner Wars. Although I LIKE Summoner Wars, Mage Wars is FAR superior and should be above that game in ratings IMO and we don't have far to go to top that.
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I hear you Koz, and as impractical as it is Ima ride with my brother Padawan - swing for the fences! Realistically though, when the dust settles some time after GenCon I believe we'll get inside the top thirty and then continue the climb from there.
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Mage Wars from 36 to 35! Awesome!
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BGG is way too Euro-game centric for games like Mage Wars
Yeah, seriously. Euro games can be ok, Dominion and Carccasone were ok when I tried them, but the flavor is just so flat and dull it makes me yawn just thinking about it.
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There has already been a considerable shift away from "purely Euro" at BGG - there's quite a few AT-ish titles in the top 50, that wouldn't have been possible 5-6 years ago already. Android: Netrunner is at the fifth place, there's X-Wing at spot 29, and Mage Wars at 35 is great as well considering there's several ten thousand titles in the database ;)
Personally, I'm not much too fond of Euros either. I just mostly ignore the top-rated games when it comes to looking at whether I'd like a game or not; there's plenty of top 50 games I find to be rather boring indeed.
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Eurogames are usually very well designed when it comes to the mechanical elements of the games, but largely because of the multi-lingual audience that they market too there is little focus on concept and story in the games, with those elements really just tacked on top of the mechanics sometimes in a way that doesn't even make a ton of sense. I really appreciate a well crafted American game because while the mechanics may be a little less elegant at times, but the concept is what draws me in and when the concept and rules are well integrated I feel like it creates a superior game play experience
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Yea, I must admit that I appreciate a solid euro. Specifically, Castles of Burgundy and Stone Age are fantastic! However, I agree with Wiz in that the vacancy of story is a major detractor despite stellar mechanics and gameplay. Red and Haslo also make great points, I for one will never jump at the chance to play Carccasone any time in the near future and the fact that A:Netrunner (great game as well) has advanced ( 8)) so high in rank is encouraging, it absolutely validates that the shift Haslo mentioned is legit.
I'm of the opinion that in time the best games will receive their time center stage, and the longer Mage Wars continues to grow the stronger the overall game becomes - you can't ask for more than that. We're already in a GREAT position, but their is certainly more greatness to be realized and in time I believe we'll get there. Yezuh!
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It's crazy to believe that in a month we've covered so much ground on BGG. Not for nothing, but I want to shout out and recognize any and everyone who has been an active part of making that happen. This community is awesome! Lets keep this thing going! Gen-Con 2013 on deck. Hope to see you guys out there.
And with that said... From 35 to 34! (Right on top of Summoner Wars!) We're kind of a big deal - jussayn! ;D
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As a mage wars fan I thought that this geeklist was a little sad. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/160432/the-top-50-most-purchased-games-july-2013-edition/page/1?
I think it presents a different picture to the view in this thread that BGG is all about euro games. A lot of the top 50 in this list are strongly thematic games. There are a fair few cube pushers too, but I was disappointed over all to see that despite Mage Wars advancing in the rankings, its not even close to BGG recorded sales.
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I was kind of surprised AW credited some random reviewer that put MW into the "Ameri-Trash" category, even if he did make it the #1 Two players game pick. I mean, I guess the theme of MW has been repeated multiple times over many games, but there's a lot you can do with a "Mages" theme, and MW clearly takes it into a different direction and plays far differently than some MTG knock-off.
I guess Europe and Germany specifically are places in which board games are more popular, but I don't really know where Euro-gamers get off calling American-made games "trash," like they're somehow inherently inferior. I guess it's some Old World egoism I don't understand.
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I was kind of surprised AW credited some random reviewer that put MW into the "Ameri-Trash" category, even if he did make it the #1 Two players game pick. I mean, I guess the theme of MW has been repeated multiple times over many games, but there's a lot you can do with a "Mages" theme, and MW clearly takes it into a different direction and plays far differently than some MTG knock-off.
I guess Europe and Germany specifically are places in which board games are more popular, but I don't really know where Euro-gamers get off calling American-made games "trash," like they're somehow inherently inferior. I guess it's some Old World egoism I don't understand.
As offensive and unnecessary as it is I can see how some games might be categorized that way, but I see no basis for applying a label like that to Mage Wars. If anything it speaks to me of how threatened the Eurogame people are by the increasing quality and popularity of American made games.
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When I first heard the ameri-trash/euro game labels l was a bit offended. Now they seem to represent different styles of game design. While I'm not an expert wouldn't MW fit better in the ameri-trash category?
Edit: I just commented on another thread that I hope tournament MW doesn't become like a euro game. I hope I'm not failing to understand the two categories.
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That's what the newly cited review on the homepage says, yes. The review basically categorizes MW as "Ameritrash," though the reviewer doesn't seem to imply the term offensively for the most part. Idk, because I've seen/heard the terms used in a teasing, yet benign sense sometimes and genuinely mean-spirited sense other times.
Considering that most Eurogames I'm aware of seem to be just a lot of resource management, I don't get the attraction. I guess if you're not managing lots of different resources at once, each of which is represented by poor production quality art and components, you clearly aren't making use of your brain. ::)
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Its my understanding another of the key differences is player elimination. In euro games players aren't eliminated. The game ends after x turns or some other condition and then the players count victory points to determine the winner.
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I enjoy a good euro, matter in fact my favorite game before Mage Wars took the crown was Agricola. Very fine game, lots of resource management and board development needed to win the game (sounds like MW right).
My buddy I play with is a consummate Board Game collector, and the term we are discussing in modern terms are mostly non-derogatory. In the past 70's-80's games from this side of the pond were typically of poor design but high in quality for the game pieces (mostly) hence the term Ameri-trash. Good looking but not fun to play...
Euro are mostly resource management games with small amount of direct conflict with you opponents, which is typical of them, they are lovers not fighters(once again mostly), so Euro style game can also be used in a derogatory manner also....
just my 2 pence/pfennigs/pennies
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There are websites dedicated to Ameritrash that use and own the term. Get to know the history an context before you get offended would be my suggestion.
I'd also recommend trying some Euros if you never have. My view is that a good game is a good game. There are some that don't appeal on either side, but the great ones are great regardless of origin.
On the other hand, Ameritrash tends to be the games I'd be less likely to play at work, where the figurines and miniatures can create too many echoes of d&d and uber nerdism.. But what I do in the privacy of my own home is all good.
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Just reviewing the link below (top 50 most purchased games) -While Mage Knight and Lords of Waterdeep are on there and Mage Wars isn't, neither is summoner wars. It might just be that the two player card battle type game doesn't have the same love as some rule finicity never ended even when it should have 2 hours ago slog, or a geeky pasted theme on a light worker placement games ;)
As a mage wars fan I thought that this geeklist was a little sad. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/160432/the-top-50-most-purchased-games-july-2013-edition/page/1?
I think it presents a different picture to the view in this thread that BGG is all about euro games. A lot of the top 50 in this list are strongly thematic games. There are a fair few cube pushers too, but I was disappointed over all to see that despite Mage Wars advancing in the rankings, its not even close to BGG recorded sales.
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Yea, it's disappointing that we didn't make the top 50 list for July.
That said, I'm confident that this years GenCon will get this game in the hands of many new players and I'm excited about that.
Also, what a leap on BGG! I look away for one second and WE ASCEND FROM 35 TO 32! Like. A. Boss.
Oh, and here's the thing - why did the collective whole rest on AmeriTrash as a descriptive reference for board games in the first place? Even if its not meant to be malicious, if I called someone's mothers cooking MamaTrash (say it with a smile) then I don't know how anyone could take that as not offensive in a small way. Jussayn!
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Yea, it's disappointing that we didn't make the top 50 list for July.
That said, I'm confident that this years GenCon will get this game in the hands of many new players and I'm excited about that.
Also, what a leap on BGG! I look away for one second and WE ASCEND FROM 35 TO 32! Like. A. Boss.
Oh, and here's the thing - why did the collective whole rest on AmeriTrash as a descriptive reference for board games in the first place? Even if its not meant to be malicious, if I called someone's mothers cooking MamaTrash (say it with a smile) then I don't know how anyone could take that as not offensive in a small way. Jussayn!
It is offensive in a small way. For me it's the type of thing I just get over. I don't like me when I'm angry. So I try to only get upset over the big things, and then I try to get over those as quick as possible.
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I thought some of the comments regarding the origins of the term here
http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Ameritrash
Were interesting. Hadn't really thought about it as a spin off from the term eurotrash ...
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There are websites dedicated to Ameritrash that use and own the term. Get to know the history an context before you get offended would be my suggestion.
I'd also recommend trying some Euros if you never have. My view is that a good game is a good game. There are some that don't appeal on either side, but the great ones are great regardless of origin.
On the other hand, Ameritrash tends to be the games I'd be less likely to play at work, where the figurines and miniatures can create too many echoes of d&d and uber nerdism.. But what I do in the privacy of my own home is all good.
The term "Ameritrash" is clearly meant to be pejorative. Just because some gamers "use and own the term" doesn't mean it isn't an insult. African American's use and own the N-word but that doesn't mean it isn't an insult when used against them.
I think the Ameritrash term is crap and shows some sort of insecurity when used by "Euro-gamers". Clearly some of these gamers have chip on their shoulder about certain types of games, but I honestly have no idea why. There is some strange sort of contempt that goes with "American-style" games, even down to the components. I've seen "Euro-gamers" rail against sculpted minis as if there is something wrong with them and only their precious meeples will do in a game. While I'm the opposite and prefer mini's over meeples, I've never gotten myself worked up or disgusted over one vs the other. It's just strange to me.
Personally I don't like Euro-games much. I think they tend to be a bit dry and too mathy for my tastes, but they can be fun from time to time.
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I'm not a huge fan euro-games either, although I do like small world quite a bit.
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Who cares whether it be Ameritrash, Euro or Eurotrash.
If you like a game, play it and be proud!
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I'm not a huge fan euro-games either, although I do like small world quite a bit.
Really? Smallworld was a huge flop in my gaming group. It was unique, but the gameplay was nothing short of yawn-worthy.
Not that all games need MW-like depth, but I can only laugh at Muddy Mudmen so many times.
heh-heh...damnit.
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There are websites dedicated to Ameritrash that use and own the term. Get to know the history an context before you get offended would be my suggestion.
I'd also recommend trying some Euros if you never have. My view is that a good game is a good game. There are some that don't appeal on either side, but the great ones are great regardless of origin.
On the other hand, Ameritrash tends to be the games I'd be less likely to play at work, where the figurines and miniatures can create too many echoes of d&d and uber nerdism.. But what I do in the privacy of my own home is all good.
Just because there are people who own the term does not mean it is not offensive. The term is inherently offensive because of the word trash. I could make mention of other offensive words that are 'owned' by people but I'm afraid that the mods would not appreciate my doing so. Futhermore, the origin of the term was intentionally derogatory, so I would appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me to learn the history before I get offended. I wasn't in fact offended at any rate, I was merely speaking to what I thought would or would not be an appropriate label. I am however a little preterbed about you telling me how I should react.
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I'm not a huge fan euro-games either, although I do like small world quite a bit.
Really? Smallworld was a huge flop in my gaming group. It was unique, but the gameplay was nothing short of yawn-worthy.
Not that all games need MW-like depth, but I can only laugh at Muddy Mudmen so many times.
heh-heh...damnit.
I don't know how to explain it. It's not my type of game but I like it anyways. One of life's little mysteries I guess.
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I didn't like Small World that much the first time I played it, but it's grown on me since I tried playing with more cutthroat players. Just because it has silly elements doesn't mean you can't play it as a highly tactical/strategic game. Since playing with the new group, I've been much more impressed with the game.
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Quick aside...
...If you haven't heard, Mage Wars successfully surpassed Lords of Waterdeep on BGG and is ranked 30th overall! In less than two months this community made it look EeeeeeZ!
It'll certainly be a difficult position to maintain but at this moment, today - Mage Wars Mission Accomplished!
Shout out the the Mage Wars community... lets go crack top 25. See you @ GenCon!
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I was just on BGG and Mage Wars was at 29...
Pretty impressive really
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I been trying to get players in my local area to play it, but it's not easy heh.
they all want to play magic cards, and think that's the only game in the world
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I know how you feel. It's the same here. I now have about three serious players and three to five casual players where I'm at.
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I been trying to get players in my local area to play it, but it's not easy heh.
they all want to play magic cards, and think that's the only game in the world
It is a tremendous challenge. At my LGS, one of the card designers for The Spoils TCG has been demoing that game on Saturdays for about a year, but he says it's a constant struggle to win over people from MTG.
His advice is to just say,"Hey, you're right. MTG's a great game. If you've got 15 minutes, I'll show you why Spoils is a great game and let you know why I think it's (different/better/more strategic, etc.) than MTG."
Another way I'll be trying to drum up new players in my area is by attending board game meetups - there are these group meetups all around the Tampa area, where I live, on different nights of the week. I'm going to try to start going to them once a month with the four apprentice spellbooks in hand to show people how to play.
Some of the key selling points, to me, are the strategic back-and-forth to each turn, and the momentum shifts of changing who has the initiative, as well as the fact you don't have to buy endless packs or trade for the cards you want - everything's available. The length of the game can be an obstacle, but in apprentice mode game shouldn't last much longer than an hour. Then, you can preach that even in games that have taken 3 hours, it feels like time flies by because you're so immersed.
Best of luck!
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I introduced the game to friends that are really into Magic the Gathering so kind of faced the same. The biggest winning over selling point was the increased focus on "strategy" and less on "luck". Namely having a Spellbook that you can pick ANYTHING out of ANYTIME you want (provided you have mana, which you can plan for). The minor drawback to that is dice rolls add an element of "luck" which I was trying to go away from, but you could have the best Magic deck in the world and it is ALL luck of the draw in that game. Sometimes you draw all land or all big creatures or all spells and you just can't get the right things off. You don't have that limitation in Mage Wars, which I love.
In fact my couple friends of mine that do play Magic have been playing Mage Wars more instead which was big. I still play Magic but Mage Wars is cool on a whole other level. Also if they are really into thinking "Magic" I've found it easy to explain it to them in terms of color/control strat. Like holy is like white, or death is like black, nature is green. I realize MTG cards don't directly translate to MW cards but I found that was a way to sort of bridge the gap to get them interested so they could relate to it in a method they are used to.
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Hey All!
Quick update - Mage Wars had a great show at GenCon this year! I'm excited that new players are getting into the game and are already building spell books with new and awesome card synergies! (I played some great games!)
We've taken a temporary hit on BGG falling from just inside the top 30 to 32 :(, however I'm confident that once our new players get acclimated (and we get Druid v Necro out this October) we will ascend beyond our peak of 29 ;). I have never been more energized to get out and show the game to new players in my local shops and am already planning some demo events! Keep sharing and encouraging your group to try out Mage Wars - we already know its dope, it everyone else that needs informing.