Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: Moodiz on March 14, 2013, 01:26:33 AM
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What happens, if I take control over the Beastmasters PET? Does it immediately lose the PET-marker because the bond is broken? (that would make much sense to me thematically/logically)
Or does the creature keep the PET-markers benefit although the missing link to the BM? And if it loses the PET-status, what happens, when the BM regains control over that creature? Since the PET-marker can only be placed on a creature that just came into play, he couldn't re-make it his PET, right? (we had a long discussion during the last game and i gave up for the evenings peace - so after regaining control it was his PET again...)
If that's the case, Mind Control would be a (not cheap, but at least a) way to deal with the PETS. Or at least it would be a nice side-effect... ;)
(I got rid of it the next round by playing the mordoks obelisk/mind control-combo... ;) !BANG! You can't pay for that look in his eyes... :ohmy:
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Its is still the BMs pet. This is done for simplicity because like you said if a MCd it and then the BM got it back later it would cause even more problems.
I hope that helps
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The best part of mind controlling the BM's pet is that it still gets +1 Melee for being in the same zone as its beast master...even though its attacking him and not defending him in this case.
Same with a mind controlled blood reaper... the warlock will still heal himself for 2 points even if you attack him with his own reaper.
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Yup baron is correct
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In my opinion, mages' abilities that grant a creature special status (like Beastmaster's Pet or Warlock's Blood Reaper) should also give that creature the "Mage Only" trait (ex. Beastmaster's Timber Wolf Pet will have "Beastmaster Only" trait), thus making them immune to Mind Control. This will prevent some absurd situations and make it a little more thematic (for example, the Warlock's Blood Reaping Firebrand Imp is unique and different creature than the other Firebrand Imps in his army).
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They do not for a few reasons but I cant say why for now..........Sorry
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They (pets) currently do not gain the "Mage Only" trait. Mind Control is a bit expensive unless the creature has some enchantments on it (or a Pet marker).
We certainly can make a ruling so that Pets are an exception. However, we prefer to not make a change unless it is necessary, and we have a consensus amongst the players. Lets keep an eye on opinions coming in and revisit in a few weeks. Thanks!
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They (pets) currently do not gain the "Mage Only" trait. Mind Control is a bit expensive unless the creature has some enchantments on it (or a Pet marker).
We certainly can make a ruling so that Pets are an exception. However, we prefer to not make a change unless it is necessary, and we have a consensus amongst the players. Lets keep an eye on opinions coming in and revisit in a few weeks. Thanks!
I think Mind Control has enough red tape on it at current to leave it as is...
high upkeep
stuns target when cast
cannot be shifted
must be within 1 zone to reveal
can only be revealed between action steps
set introduced a brand new free-to-reveal psychic counter spell
Personally I have no problem with ForceMaster mind controlling pets and reapers.... or to state the other way I dont like Pet/Reaper being a built in hard counter or a way to negate mind control for the best creature in your arsenal. (ie the most enticing target)
Also though, Mind Control doesnt say anything about the target creature having to be one that the FM could normally cast in the way that steal equipment or steal enchantment does, so would "mage only" stop it?
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As per the FAQ's rules clarifications on Restricted Spells it would indeed stop it. If a spell is restricted to a particular Mage or school of training you cannot use or control that spell unless you are a Mage of the said type or trained in the corresponding schools. In fact there is an example using Mind Control in the FAQ's. I quote: "The Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control on Huginn, Raven Familiar because it has the Arcane Mage Only trait."
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Oh, and I'm ok with you being able to mind control a Pet. The only thing I find a little non thematic is the extra Melee +1 the Pet would get "when in the same zone as his Beastmaster." Perhaps that could be rephrased to "when in the same zone as his controlling Beastmaster."
The Blood Reaper still healing the Warlock while being mind controlled makes more sense thematically to me because he was the one making the sacrifice and the dark pact after all, not the Mage controlling the Mind Control.
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I would not object to a pet or blood reaper gaining corresponding "mage only" traits.
It feels right with me, also its not like the beast master isnt going to churn out other critters for mind controling, or waste a ton of spell book points.
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The problem here is should the theme take precedence over the rules or should the rules take precedence over the theme.
I am a fan of rules over flavor for simplicity sake.
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A corollary please: If the BM's pet is mind controlled (or otherwise made useless or worse), may the BM then remove his pet marker and reuse it on a different animal soon to be summoned?
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The problem here is should the theme take precedence over the rules or should the rules take precedence over the theme.
I am a fan of rules over flavor for simplicity sake.
In my mind, it IS in flavor though.
A Beastmaster has a favorite fox, so he imbues that special fox with extra powers, and in his presence said magics stronger. A forcemaster takes control of its mind.. those powers and embuings don't go away. The beast master gave this creature a magical boon, and its being used against him which is incredibly in flavor of the forcemaster.... to me its no different in theme or flavor than mind controlling a creature with bear strength on it. Just because the creature has been tricked into thinking the beastmaster is his enemy doesnt mean those magical gifts no longer work.
Same with the Warlock. He creates a link with a reaper so when that demon draws blood and he heals himself, and makes the creature ravenously blood thirsty. The fact that a mage who specializes in psychic dominance overrides its will doesnt break that link, or make it less blood thirsty..it still wants to feast on blood and that link still feeds the Warlock 2 health (even if it was 6 damage worth his own blood).
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A corollary please: If the BM's pet is mind controlled (or otherwise made useless or worse), may the BM then remove his pet marker and reuse it on a different animal soon to be summoned?
Under the current rules the pet needs to die before you replace it.
@ baronzaltor
If you truly care about what you made would you not try to gain it back?
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A corollary please: If the BM's pet is mind controlled (or otherwise made useless or worse), may the BM then remove his pet marker and reuse it on a different animal soon to be summoned?
Under the current rules the pet needs to die before you replace it.
@ baronzaltor
If you truly care about what you made would you not try to gain it back?
If I truly cared he would have had a Mind Shield or a Nullify on him before I let him near a Force Master.
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With initiative, a Seeking Dispel into Mind Control is unstoppable.
The upkeep is easy when you don't summon your own creatures.
Against the Forcemaster you need to save your Dispels for Forcefield & Mind Control & Charm &...
I'm a fan of Pet & Blood Reaper being "Mage Only"
The Forcemaster is crazy good because of her tempo and options available.
She can spend two turns just dropping Mana Crystals and develop any strategy necessary against the opponent:
If he rushes in solo, equip Cantrip and Bear and just roll dice and Jinx.
If he rushes in with a friend (piousfly's warlock build), just play the mind control/nullify game and beat up the warlock with your sword.
If he swarms by spamming creatures, simply play Obelisk to drain his mana to the point that he can't even dispel your Mind Controls... and Forcefield gives her 4 cancels anyway.
When does the next expansion come out that's supposed to balance her?
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Solo warlock can take her down with fire shaper ring, LOH, bear strength, and Gauntlets easy.... Add a battle fury to that and the warlock can do 18 attack dice in a hurry, and with the burns it gets ugly quick. Shoot her with gorgon archers and she has no attack power from the weak condition. Keep her away with push or give the archers indirect and hide them behind a wall if you have to. Have the beastmaster summon six Darkfenne bats by turn four and rot her to death. play mana syphon and some mana leaches or a drain power and she will have no mana for her upkeep. Play decoy to counter her nullifys (or nullify her nullify). Im not trying to being a jerk or anything, just the first thoughts from the top of my head. She is good, but I wouldnt say unbalanced.