Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: sIKE on February 19, 2013, 10:02:07 PM
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Here is the current iteration (v7) of my Priestess deck. It is designed to counter my friends Warlock beatdown deck which gets into your face very quickly. The idea is to buy enough time to get the small army of powerful creatures who will then quickly turn the tide in my favor. I lost three games in row then with v6 version of my deck I was able to take the Warlords head quite easily. Some tweaking after that and here is what I have today. I am looking forward to running this deck again hopefully next week.
Mage: Priestess
Total Cards: 49
Attack: 4
2 - Jet Stream
2 - Geyser
Conjuration: 2
1 - Mana Flower
1 - Mana Crystal
Creature: 4
2 - Knight of Westlock
1 - Royal Archer
1 - Highland Unicorn
Enchantment: 15
1 - Reverse Magic
2 - Block
1 - Agony
1 - Divine Intervention
2 - Teleport Trap
1 - Bull Endurance
1 - Hawkeye
3 - Nullify
1 - Force Hold
2 - Bear Strength
Equipment: 8
1 - Ring of Asyra
1 - Moonglow Amulet
1 - Elemental Cloak
2 - Elemental Wand
1 - Mage Wand
1 - Dawnbreaker Ring
1 - Deflection Bracers
Incantation: 15
1 - Dissolve
2 - Rouse the Beast
3 - Piercing Strike
1 - Purge Magic
1 - Charge
1 - Steal Enchantment
1 - Heal
1 - Knockdown
1 - Minor Heal
1 - Explode
1 - Seeking Dispel
1 - Teleport
Wall: 1
1 - Wall of Thorns
B)
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I think you are going about this the wrong way with the Priestess IMO. If you want to be well rounded and counter beat-down builds you should focus on stacking miss chances. By that I mean get Defense dice on your Priestess and use a lot of Daze/Stun effects. Your opponent will do a lot of swinging at air. Daze/Stun lock is very powerful and very hard to deal with.
Had I gone to Bashcon I would have run a Priestess like this and done well because it is very strong against solo-beat down and mage + big creature beat down because they will be missing with their swings... a lot. Swarms are actually a bit tougher for the Priestess because she doesn't have easy access to powerful AOE spells. Blinding Flash doesn't do quite enough damage, although the Daze/Stun is very strong on it. Against swarms you basically have to rely on your more powerful creatures to cut through them.
It seems like you are basically trying to do Priestess-beat down. While you can do that, it's just run better out of another mage really. You aren't really taking advantage of what makes the Priestess so powerful, which is her Daze/Stun effects and powerful Temples.
Those are my thoughts anyway, take them as you will ;)
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Very surprising build! That may be the first priestess book I've seen with no temples. Not just "light" on temples, but none! Wow :) I agree with Koz that it seems to me a build that is fighting against the mage's best strength.
Did this book come about in specific counter to a friend's warlock book?
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I think that is what I am doing with the Geyser on the Elemental Wand for the Daze w/ Deflection Bracers + Block, Reverse magic, Elemental Cloak for the miss swings is what you are suggesting. My game is to take those that solely focus on the mage to come at me dodge/minimize as many hits as possible and then let my critters womp on them and heal them up as we go with the other wand with Minor Heal/Heal attached (which means she is growing stronger the longer the game goes) which carries into the later part of the game, way after a typical beat down would happen. The deck is designed to counter a Warlock that put out Deathlock and Idol of Pestilence rounds one and two, then on round three starts beating on you with a buffed LOH and Doublestrike. The Burns start stacking up real high and death comes quite quickly, much to my trash talking chagrin the first couple of matches with this particular Warlord.
If I am missing something for a strategy for the Priestess visa vie the Warlock I am not sure of what it is. She cannot get biggies out very fast due to the high mana cost, she is poor at defending herself, she is weak HP wise at the start of the game. My experience as shown me that the Priestess has to survive into later round before she becomes a force to be reckoned with and then eventually swamps her opponent with a devastating amount of power.
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@KOY
I had a Bimshalla in the v6 build but took it out for the v7 build as I was looking at a WoT/Push (or Jet Steam) combo, I also lost the Angel in v7 which was replaced with another Knight, which are wicked bad when you Steal Enchantment "Bear Strength" from the Warlock. :ohmy:
That 120 points really makes for some difficult choices....
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A couple of post referenced the priestess temple build. The temple build is more dependent on extra card sets than most other spellbooks. What is your card pool?
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Currently, Core + Tome 1 with Tome 2 and WvF to be added very shortly! It not that I unable not build out a Temple type of deck for my tome, it has more to do with time, value and mana costs.
My analysis:
Temple of Asyra: Costs 10 Mana + 2 Clerics costs 10 more Mana to get 2 extra mana a turn and can only be used to summon Holy Creatures. For 10 mana, I can get two Mana Crystals/Flowers out and have 2 Mana for whatever I am in need of. The Spell book cost is 5 spell points vs. 4 spell points for the Mana Crystal/Flower combo. Overall value: Negligible
Temple of Light: Costs 9 mana and gets one attack dice. Each additional Temple nets 1 more attack die. For 4 more Mana you can summon a Knight of Westlock and get 5 attack dice from the start. Overall value: Minimum
Temple of the Dawnbreaker: Costs 8 Mana, the re-rolls are nice, but only are used once per round. Might consider adding this one back into my deck eventually. Overall value: Fair
Hand of Bim-Shalla: Costs 5 Mana, +1 Armor or +1 Melee or heal 1, running a deck with several creatures this card is very handy and would be most likely added back into my deck as it Spell Book cost is only 1. As I write this I am seriously thinking about adding it back into my deck. Overall Value: High
So as you see a lot of thought has gone into the deck and how useful Temples are with the build purposes of the deck. If I had more time, the temples would provide value but when you are dying around round 5 with no heals available you quickly learn that no they are not that useful.
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Daze (Pillar of Light) and Defenses (Knights of Westlock) are extremely powerful against a big creature beatdown deck, such as my Lock deck.
This is a rather specific "metagame" deck and would almost certainly kill "Lord of Fire" type builds very easily. I think it would be weak against swarms though, especially a Lair type build that gets an extremely large swarm before attacking. Knights underperform against swarms to begin with, and you don't have any area attacks at all.
Also, other than a single Royal Archer (easily killed by attack spells) you don't have anything that can kill flying units. A swarm of Bats or Falcons is likely to completely embarass this build.
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I did say I would like to run my Deck against yours :cheer: . True it is a meta deck designed to counter your type of deck. Against a swarm type play I would have to swap back in my Angel. However with a Minor heal on a wand I would think that the swarm might take me out but I would go down swinging. Once again, if it got out into Round 10 or so, I think I could take almost any deck. I'm not real sure of that, but sure get the feeling the Priestess will just get stronger as things move in to the late game. Add in a couple of new cards from the FvW expanison like say Force Hammer and Hawkeye and I think that she would be a tank.
As for flying Geyser would work in that area and once again when the bats melee it 2 die and rot (I can knock those off eaisly) it would loose the Flying Trait and be wiped out in one or two attacks.Same with the Falcons, they would have to come down to fight me and loose quickly I would think. A large swarm would be 6 of them and that would be a major handful to even think about early in the game.
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I would swap out the geysers with pillars of light. I would consider swapping 3 piercing strikes with 2 battle furies and a perfect strike. Unless you find your self with just 3 mana extra on turns. Also the more holy spells you have, the more you gain from the priestess ability. I love the unicorn but I don't think I would take him with only two knights. I keep trying to put him in my beast master deck and it find it is really tough to get him in the same zone as my damaged critters (without putting my self in a situation where my units will all get fire stormed.
As others have said, you need at least one anti swarm spells. Perhaps a circle of lightening would work well? Since you have Knights, I would go with circle of fire, just in case your spell gets stolen.
To be honest, I have found my mage with equipment is the best counter to a one big guy rush. No matter how buff the knights are, they will have a tough time with one big. So try and keep them alive and put your self in the fray. Send them after the mage while you battle the big unit. Or force hold the big and attack the mage.
You deck looks strong defensively but I am not really seeing a way you can ramp up damage quickly. If you are going to play the long game, you might need more heals?
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Almost everything you have said here makes much since.
Once Deathlock comes out you are at least 6-10 rounds out from getting your heals / health buffs back. During that time the stacks of Burns become much more of a threat and Geyser plays a strong role in countering that along with being Water for the Walls of Fire (+ Push = Nasty). The deck is focused on minimizing Fire damage.
Take a Knight (13 Mana) + Bear Strength (5 Mana) you have a 7 die tank with a Defense, 3 Armor, and 10 HP. Now spin 2 of those up.Let your Unicorn or Mage take the first swing at your opponet (if there is a defense) then throw a piercing strike on 7 dice * 2 and you have a go chance to blow a hole in the side of someone/thing :)
The Unicorn is real nice for the Regen (Burns) and Charge when you enemy decides its time to flee.
With Deathlock and Idol of Pestilence you can't tank with her as she is weak on hit point and will get Curses thrown on her which make matters even worse.
So it is run around the arena buying time and building up a strong army, send them forth and kick some booty while behind them you heal. More of a Warlord like approach now that I think of it.
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Also, other than a single Royal Archer (easily killed by attack spells) you don't have anything that can kill flying units. A swarm of Bats or Falcons is likely to completely embarass this build.
Gravikor?
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Why do you have the Dawnbreaker ring? You don't even have any light attacks?
Here is what I propose, play these cards, not necessarily in this order:
Staff of Asyra +1 (take mage staff if you are dealing with flying)
Dawnbreaker ring +1
Gaunlets of strength +1
Bear Strength +2
Dragonscale
elemental cloak
nullify
Battle fury
This is 8 dice. battle fury make it 16 dice (16 damage average). In two rounds that is 24 dice (no battle fury the second round). You might also get in a attack or two from one of your knights. That will deal with most big guys. If the creature is dodgy, you will need those perfect strikes. Or force hold them.
If you don't get rushed, you can buff up your knights and play less offensive equipment cards. Always play the offensive cards just before attacking so you don't telegraph your plan.
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Daze (Pillar of Light) and Defenses (Knights of Westlock) are extremely powerful against a big creature beatdown deck, such as my Lock deck.
This is a rather specific "metagame" deck and would almost certainly kill "Lord of Fire" type builds very easily. I think it would be weak against swarms though, especially a Lair type build that gets an extremely large swarm before attacking. Knights underperform against swarms to begin with, and you don't have any area attacks at all.
Also, other than a single Royal Archer (easily killed by attack spells) you don't have anything that can kill flying units. A swarm of Bats or Falcons is likely to completely embarass this build.
Agreed with Piousflea. Stacking miss chances is a great way to counter solo-mage and mage + big creature beat down, but you HAVE to have a way to deal with swarms if you want your build to be well rounded and have any chance in an OP or tournament setting.
Right now the Priestess has access to Blinding Flash as an AOE which isn't that strong damage wise (but great for the Daze/Stun). What you can try (and what I run) is Circle of Lightning (more Daze/Stun + crowd control) and 2 Blinding Flashes. However, now that the expansion is out, you might want to try out Whirling Strike. I'm thinking that a Knight of Westlock or Grey Angel (or a Priestess with Staff of Asyra) can cut through a lot of weenies with that spell (especially if buffed by 1 or more Hands of Bim Shalla's). It's a bit expensive though so I'm not sure it's the answer. An Electrify might be better (which is something I've been trying to figure out how to fit in my build).
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Almost everything you have said here makes much since.
Once Deathlock comes out you are at least 6-10 rounds out from getting your heals / health buffs back. During that time the stacks of Burns become much more of a threat and Geyser plays a strong role in countering that along with being Water for the Walls of Fire (+ Push = Nasty). The deck is focused on minimizing Fire damage.
Take a Knight (13 Mana) + Bear Strength (5 Mana) you have a 7 die tank with a Defense, 3 Armor, and 10 HP. Now spin 2 of those up.Let your Unicorn or Mage take the first swing at your opponet (if there is a defense) then throw a piercing strike on 7 dice * 2 and you have a go chance to blow a hole in the side of someone/thing :)
The Unicorn is real nice for the Regen (Burns) and Charge when you enemy decides its time to flee.
With Deathlock and Idol of Pestilence you can't tank with her as she is weak on hit point and will get Curses thrown on her which make matters even worse.
So it is run around the arena buying time and building up a strong army, send them forth and kick some booty while behind them you heal. More of a Warlord like approach now that I think of it.
Well, I guess it comes down to what you are trying to do. If you are tyring to counter one specific build then I guess you should go with whatever works. A lot of the advice in this thread is from people who look at builds from a "how would this hold up in an OP or Tournament environment?" But if that's not what you are going for then a lot of this advice isn't going to be all that helpful.
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Also, other than a single Royal Archer (easily killed by attack spells) you don't have anything that can kill flying units. A swarm of Bats or Falcons is likely to completely embarass this build.
Gravikor?
Which did not actually end up being in the expansion which means we are waiting for it until at least the NEXT expansion.
For the record the expansion also does not include the Minotaur, Hurl Meteor or the Ballista. :(
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Sigh, I would like to take the deck and make it swarm formidable, but really need to run it against one to get the feel for what needs to be done to tweak the deck. It would love for it to be tourney ready of course!
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Get rid of an explode (Knights are already good vs equipment build) and a Force Hold (your build already owns big-creature builds), and pick up an Eagle Wings or two, and a Circle of Fire. (The fire damage shield)
This should increase your versatility against air and swarm builds.
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Nice! Wings on my Knights would be brutal! Also looking at losing the Dawnbreaker ring as pointed out eairler and add in the Enchanters Ring. Then add in Ring of Fire. I'll see how that works.
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Looking at this spell book it makes me think my book construction is WAY off. I'm looking at this list thinking you have an incredibly limited pool with which to actually kill your opponent. Four creatures, four pretty weak attack spells (which yes, can be 'wand-ed', but that's easy enough to get rid of) and then it's down to the priestess herself.
Am I way off here? Does this not need more 'oomph'?
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Looking at this spell book it makes me think my book construction is WAY off. I'm looking at this list thinking you have an incredibly limited pool with which to actually kill your opponent. Four creatures, four pretty weak attack spells (which yes, can be 'wand-ed', but that's easy enough to get rid of) and then it's down to the priestess herself.
Am I way off here? Does this not need more 'oomph'?
You should post yours in another thread so we can see it too. We can definitely stand for the posting of more spellbooks.
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I completely agree Sausage. I look at the posted books and it is almost a different game than how we are playing up here. I simply can't imagine going into a duel with a single dissolve for example. The spellbooks in my group are very in school too, the "cherry picking" from all available schools is almost unheard of. It's too expensive and too much core power is lost.
In this particular book with the one dissolve, only 4 creatures (one archer?!), no real attack spells to replace the lost creature damage... it is completely different, as I've said.
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@Koy and @Sausageman, I love the game and it truely is an adaptive deck that has evolved (now on v7) away from most of the light spells other than creatures and healing type spells. I had many of the spells you would think would go in this kind of deck but died before I ever got a chance to get them out. I would like to see your how your deck for the Priestess looks and I might even try to run it. The flip side of the coin is what has she been dueling against? My buddies Warlock has alot of the dark spells in his deck but does have other schools in it.
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sIKE I understand completely and please let me offer my apologies if it seemed in any way I was criticizing or attacking your spellbook and/or playstyle. I am far from an expert, just a very enthusiastic fan that plays the game every day while huddled for warmth in long winter nights.
However, as this is your thread on your book let's talk more about it! I am curious about how your games play out. What is the average duration of a duel with this specific priestess deck vs your warlock friend? I know you've started enjoying recent success against your warlock buddy, so I would love to know how you get your kill?
You do have two Elemental Wands, which suggest that is a key card, but I would happily trade shots with you if your wand is slinging Geyser or Jet Stream and I'm throwing Fireballs, Thunderbolts, Lightning Bolts, Drain Life etc. I suspect the wands are really to keep the geysers flowing to combat the Burns your warlock friend is dishing out?
With no weapons for your mage to wield, and no strong attack spells, I can only assume your creatures are the pain bringers. The archer is surely a strong a card, especially with a Hawkeye, but one alone can't project enough power and would (in my circle at least) die extremely fast as a priority target card.
The two knights are certainly incredible but with no Dawnbringers to get defense dice rerolls they aren't being fully maximized. As a side note, my preferred mage is the wizard of the lightning variety, so I don't get to see many Knights used against me. :)
The unicorn is a good creature and goes to great when it supports your forces, but with only 4 total other creatures possible the AOE regeneration isn't quite as strong. Assuming this is the big draw of the unicorn for your book (unless the Charge +2 is), I'd argue that perhaps a better creature could serve your deck as the Big Bad.
To answer your questions, the Warlock is the heavy favorite of all the players in my circle. (As much as they whine non-stop about how much they hate playing against the Wizard, they seem to hate actually playing him even more so.) When I play it is almost guaranteed that I am facing a Warlock.
As for my Priestess book, it is the usual "temple build" and as a wild over simplification it basically wins by either having a ridiculous reaction advantage with Hand/Dawnbreaker spam with the Temple of Light dealing heavy damage + control effects, or the enemy mage starts devoting resources to killing my temples which means they aren't hurting me or my creatures. It's a very tough choice to play against and I have always felt it was "too good" as a book strategy. When you add in the simply ridiculous ability the Priestess has to shoot Daze/Stun control around and it's just a ridiculous mage to fight.
As an aside, I had assumed the expansion would end the temple build with all the ballistas and the like, but I am hearing that the ballista didn't make it in the set, so maybe it will stay strong? *shrug*
Mostly, I am curious about how your book performs for you. I make a point to build books that don't counter one specific build like yours does, so between that paradigm shift and the meta shift from how your group plays versus mine, this is a fascinating thread!
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I am not offended what so ever! I am fasicnated with others game play as of this time it has been me vs my friend. The Warlock I play typically Drops Deathlock then moves and Equips LOH. Round two Idol of Pestelensne then moves again in my direction and defense Bracers. Round three Charge and smack with LOH or move + Fireball. Round 4 (Charge + LOH) or Bear Strength + LOH, afterwards is drop more equip or curse and smash with LOH, he will chase me around the board and use teleport to stay up in my grill drop the dbl strike card. Thats the deal. No healing on my side. The main purpose of the Archer is to kill the Deathlock. If I survive that long I can then slowly start turning the tide. The Knights are the main tool for that buff them up and send them to beat on the Warlock, I stay behind and heal them. With their defense and armor I typically can cast a heal/minor heal on each one every other round, and either Geyser them to get rid of burns or if i'm lucky send it the Warlocks way.
This is way simplifed, but you should be able to figure out the punch/counter punch that goes on here.
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it is the usual "temple build" and as a wild over simplification it basically wins by either having a ridiculous reaction advantage with Hand/Dawnbreaker spam with the Temple of Light
IMO, the "Temple Build" is really only overpowered against extremely "slow" builds. (such as having a spawnpoint + multiple mana crystals) A fast beatdown deck should always win against a "Temple build", purely out of mathematics:
- A Hand costs 5 mana for a choice between +1 melee, +1 armor, or 1 healing. Meanwhile, Bear Strength costs 5 mana (4 with Enchanters Ring) for +2 melee, and Rhino Hide costs 5 mana (4 with Enchanters Ring) for +2 Armor.
- A Dawnbreaker costs 8 mana for the chance to reroll an enemy attack and make it deal less damage (or no damage). An Imp or Bat costs 5 mana for the guarantee of being able to perform an attack.
- A Temple of Light can roll a lot of dice if you have a lot of temples. Problem is, you pay a minimum of 24 mana (Light + 3xHand) to get a 4-dice attack. That's the same cost as a Lord of Fire.
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In this particular book with the one dissolve, only 4 creatures (one archer?!), no real attack spells to replace the lost creature damage...
4 big creatures, supported with bear strength and heals, is more than enough to win a game. When playing a beatdown deck I never play more than 2 big creatures in one game.
Also, Wall of Thorns + Jet Stream can deal a lot of damage for very cheap mana.
I would recommend that you drop the Moonglow Amulet and pick up a Staff of Asyra instead. A 6-dice attack (staff + bear strength) with a high Daze/Stun chance is EXTREMELY powerful, a lot of people don't expect the priestess to melee but she's not bad at it.
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@piousflea
As the current reining Queen of Battle, I listen closely to what you have to say! :) I have swapped in a couple Eagle Wings and a Enchanters Ring and pulled out 8 points elsewhere. I have to say that was very painful execise and now adding these two in will probally want to make me cry. I am hoping to test the deck Monday or Tuesday. If it works well I will post up the newest rev.
I got my copy of FvM in yesterday. I am reviewing the cards this evening, I really am thinking that I like the Force Hammer on a Wand + Hawkeye. Very mana effeicent though a bit costly. Just would have to figure out what 6 points to swap out... :unsure:
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sIKE if you go with force hammer, you might want to bring it out only after having 20 mana in the bank. I would suggest having a invisible fist in your deck in case you don't have enough mana for the force hammer. With the expense of a elemental wand in your deck, you want to make sure you have more than one use for it.
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it is the usual "temple build" and as a wild over simplification it basically wins by either having a ridiculous reaction advantage with Hand/Dawnbreaker spam with the Temple of Light
IMO, the "Temple Build" is really only overpowered against extremely "slow" builds. (such as having a spawnpoint + multiple mana crystals) A fast beatdown deck should always win against a "Temple build", purely out of mathematics:
- A Hand costs 5 mana for a choice between +1 melee, +1 armor, or 1 healing. Meanwhile, Bear Strength costs 5 mana (4 with Enchanters Ring) for +2 melee, and Rhino Hide costs 5 mana (4 with Enchanters Ring) for +2 Armor.
- A Dawnbreaker costs 8 mana for the chance to reroll an enemy attack and make it deal less damage (or no damage). An Imp or Bat costs 5 mana for the guarantee of being able to perform an attack.
- A Temple of Light can roll a lot of dice if you have a lot of temples. Problem is, you pay a minimum of 24 mana (Light + 3xHand) to get a 4-dice attack. That's the same cost as a Lord of Fire.
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In this particular book with the one dissolve, only 4 creatures (one archer?!), no real attack spells to replace the lost creature damage...
4 big creatures, supported with bear strength and heals, is more than enough to win a game. When playing a beatdown deck I never play more than 2 big creatures in one game.
Also, Wall of Thorns + Jet Stream can deal a lot of damage for very cheap mana.
I would recommend that you drop the Moonglow Amulet and pick up a Staff of Asyra instead. A 6-dice attack (staff + bear strength) with a high Daze/Stun chance is EXTREMELY powerful, a lot of people don't expect the priestess to melee but she's not bad at it.
I think you are off on your analysis of the Temple build. My Temple build can and does handle beat down well (whether solo mage or mage plus big creature). Your analysis of the Temple of the Dawnbringer is off because you don't account for it's best feature, the rerolling of Defense dice. Your analysis about Temple of Light is flawed too because the number of dice rolled on the attack isn't the point of the card, it's the Daze/Stun lock it helps set up. How much mana is it worth to Daze/Stun an enemy mage or big creature? You didn't account for that in your analysis by focusing only on damage dice. The Temple of Light Daze/Stuns 50/50 with only two Temples out and fires for free. Very strong.
I've seen your Warlock build and your write up about how you play it. My Priestess (pre-expansion) runs like this:
Turn 1 (20 mana): Temple of the Dawnbringer (8 ) + Cobra Reflexes (9) = 17 mana (I now have a 50/50 Denfense that can be re-rolled, very strong
Turn 2 (13 mana): If opponent looks to be rushing then cast Temple of Light (9) + Pillar of Light (4). Cast the Temple and fire immediately. Only use the Pillar if the opponent cast a big or failed to get Dazed/Stunned from the Temple (save mana otherwise)
Turn 3 (10 mana if cast Pillar or 14 otherwise). Depends on the situation. If you have 14 mana, cast a Knight. If you have 10 and they are up in your grill get out some Armor (Leather Boots or Gloves or Dragon Scale Hauberk if they have LoH out) + Pillar of Light.
This forces a reaction out of my opponent immediately if he is playing beat down. If they ignore this set up, they will be missing me... a lot. If they react to what I'm doing then I gain Tempo advantage while I produce a couple of really strong creatures (Knights are good vs rush). Starting on turn 2, the rushing mage (and his "big" if he has one) will be getting hit with multiple Daze/Stun effects from the Temple and Pillars. Once the miss chances start to stack up from Daze/Stun and Defense dice, they will have a hell of a time hitting anything. Stacking the miss chances also keeps you safe even vs. things like Knockdown and Unavoidable attacks becuase they will most likely be Dazed as well.
Very strong.
If you are rolling through Priestess builds with your beat down Warlock I have to question how good the Priestess builds and the strategy behind them are. No offense to anyone who is playing that build of course, my experiences are just different. Playgroups have different experiences to be sure, and this build/strategy is far from unbeatable (nothing is) but it's VERY strong vs beat down.
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I would recommend that you drop the Moonglow Amulet and pick up a Staff of Asyra instead. A 6-dice attack (staff + bear strength) with a high Daze/Stun chance is EXTREMELY powerful, a lot of people don't expect the priestess to melee but she's not bad at it.
I agree, if people aren't running it, they sure should be. I try to get mine out early in the game vs beat down just to keep stacking the Daze/Stun effects.
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Koz,
Great post! How are you dealing with Deathlock and Idol of Pestelence? That was my main issue with your approach. Yes Daze/Stun will slow him down, but do come off at the end of the round. Every other round he will have initiative and if you get hit by the LOH and have some burns placed on you they are much more effective than Daze/Stun as they potentially cause damage each round.
Depending on Rolls of 9+ to keep your attacker at bay seems quite risky. At round 2 you have two temples out so you are getting 2 Dice to roll. With the potential to re-roll once someone's dice.
Compare that to the LOH "if" it hits you, then its Burn rolls start at 7, much closer to 50/50 of one being added to your creature and if you get two on you from one roll, your (and mine too) Priestess will start going down real quick then the actual dice damage from the melee buffed Warlord/LOH. Between the DOT's, the in-ability to heal or add Life points and if luck is on your side and if only 25% of the LOH hits you, the Warlord will still win the duel rather quickly.
I haven't even touched on curses and such. Many who play the Warlock like to use Curses and place them on your Mage. Typically one or two in a round. At that point you typically have to Dispel all of the Enchantments on your Mage, think about Cobra Reflex.
One last question, why Cobra Reflexes instead of Defense Bracers? 4 Cost vs 2 and Mana cost is 9 vs 6. To help with ranged attacks? Avoiding Explode or Dissolve?
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Koz,
Great post! How are you dealing with Deathlock and Idol of Pestelence? That was my main issue with your approach. Yes Daze/Stun will slow him down, but do come off at the end of the round. Every other round he will have initiative and if you get hit by the LOH and have some burns placed on you they are much more effective than Daze/Stun as they potentially cause damage each round.
Deathlock and Idol can be rough, no doubt. The good news is, if they spend their mana on that, they aren't spending it on direct offense so that gives you some time to get out stuff you need to try and win. Basically, the defense route I chose is stacking miss chances, in the hope that they will be missing so many swings and actions that you won't NEED to heal. If it goes poorly and the dice aren't rolling average or better I may end up getting hit a lot and then I'll be in real trouble. It happens. Adapt the best you can.
Depending on Rolls of 9+ to keep your attacker at bay seems quite risky. At round 2 you have two temples out so you are getting 2 Dice to roll. With the potential to re-roll once someone's dice.
You aren't depending on a 9+ to keep your attacker at bay. Take another look at the strategy. Firstly, when the Temple of Light attacks you add the number of Temples you have in play to the effect die, so even with just itself in play it Dazes/Stuns on 8+. With the Dawnbreaker out that you cast first turn the Temple of Light is Daze/Stunning on 7+, which is 50/50. Now add in the fact that you also prepared a Pillar of Light which Daze/Stuns on a 4+ and you have a Cobra Reflexes on which provides a 50/50 dodge with a re-roll and you have a very strong defense that works vs melee or ranged (including Fireballs and the like). Obviously an Unavoidable attack gets around the Defense die, but that's where you hope the Daze/Stun takes care of that.
I haven't even touched on curses and such. Many who play the Warlock like to use Curses and place them on your Mage. Typically one or two in a round. At that point you typically have to Dispel all of the Enchantments on your Mage, think about Cobra Reflex.
Curses kill slowly though so while some of them are a problem, they aren't so scary that they need an immediate reaction from you to deal with.
One last question, why Cobra Reflexes instead of Defense Bracers? 4 Cost vs 2 and Mana cost is 9 vs 6. To help with ranged attacks? Avoiding Explode or Dissolve?
I choose Cobra Reflexes initially because it works vs both melee and ranged. If you just go Bracers then they can smack you with a Fireball or something and not worry about the Reflexes just yet. Having out the Reflexes backed by a Temple of the Dawnbringer forces your opponent to deal with it or ignore it and pray to the dice gods. As a side note, I also run the Bracers in my build as well as Force Sword/Orb. It's all about stacking miss chances as a means of survival, as well as Aegis and armor. I don't even run that much healing because the plan is not to get hit too often.
My Forcemaster will be running the Temple of the Dawnbreaker too and it will be even stronger with her because her Defense die can't be removed. ;)
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I think you are off on your analysis of the Temple build. My Temple build can and does handle beat down well (whether solo mage or mage plus big creature). Your analysis of the Temple of the Dawnbringer is off because you don't account for it's best feature, the rerolling of Defense dice.
The Temple of the Dawnbringer can be thought of as a fractional Block.
The best case scenario for the Dawnbringer is one of these two:
1) Attacker rolls unusually high (critical 2's). You reroll his dice, and they come up unusually low (all 0's).
2) Attacker declares an attack. You roll a Defense and fail. You re-roll the attack dice. Your Defense succeeds.
Either of these cases are, at best, equal to one Block. (4 mana value) However, both of these cases are far from guaranteed. In fact, scenario #1 is incredibly unlikely (although I have seen it happen) and it doesn't contribute a large % of Dawnbreaker's effectiveness.
It is easy to calculate the additional Defense chance that a Dawnbringer gives you:
A standard 7+ Defense is exactly 50% chance to Avoid. Therefore, there is a 50% chance you will need the Dawnbringer. If you use the Dawnbringer, there is a 50% chance you will succeed. Therefore, a Dawnbringer has an overall 25% chance per turn of functioning as a Block (4 mana value).
Basically, a Dawnbringer is not mana-efficient until it has successfully turned 2 successful attacks into blocked attacks, which on average will take 8 attacks against a 7+ Defense.
The Dawnbringer is extremely efficient over the course of a game, but it is highly inefficient for the first few rounds it is out. This makes it rather similar to Mana Generators - it's good to have, but you don't want too many against a beatdown deck.
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For a Priestess defending against a rush, it is much stronger to combine Stun/Daze with one or two temples, instead of investing very heavily on temples.
If you commit the mana to a Cobra Reflexes (9 mana) + 2 Dawnbreakers (16 Mana), you've spent 25 mana for a "guaranteed" defense against 1 attack, when a beatdown deck can throw 3 attacks per round at this point. (2 creatures + mage)
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On second thought, I think we are actually agreeing with each other. You're saying that a stun/daze heavy build with 1 dawnbreaker temple is really effective against beatdown. (I agree)
I guess my OP was more of directed toward the common (mis)perception that there is a super overpowered "Temples Build" that stacks something like 3 Bimshallas, a Dawnbreaker, and a Temple of Light.
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On second thought, I think we are actually agreeing with each other. You're saying that a stun/daze heavy build with 1 dawnbreaker temple is really effective against beatdown. (I agree)
I guess my OP was more of directed toward the common (mis)perception that there is a super overpowered "Temples Build" that stacks something like 3 Bimshallas, a Dawnbreaker, and a Temple of Light.
Yes, we are on the same page it seems. I don't go overboard on Temples really, one Dawnbreaker and the Temple of Light is often pretty solid just by themselves. The Hand is so good I try really hard to get at least one out early, but if I'm unable to do so due to having to adapt to my opponents strategy then I just deal without. Bascially, if I'm able to start getting out Hand's against beat-down then I am already doing really well and at that point I'm just "winning more". Most of the time when I get Hands out it's vs other builds (the extra armor is good vs swarms and the + melee and healing is pretty much good vs whom ever).
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As a side note, I'd like to comment a bit on a little strategy on using a Dawnbreaker that came to mind while looking at piousflea's excellent breakdown on the math behind using it. Basically it will be used most often to reroll a failed Defense die. However, there can and will be situations where you've successfully used a Defense die earlier in the turn without the need of the Dawnbreaker but are then hit by another attack. Do you use the Dawnbreaker or not? On average, a player will roll one point of damage per die rolled (don't include armor in this equation). If your opponent rolled average or lower, obviously don't use the Dawnbreaker, but if he rolled above average, use it. So if your opponent hits you with a 7 dice attack and rolls 8+ damage, use the reroll, otherwise, don't.
If you don't use the reroll for the damage dice, you can always use it to reroll the effect die. If they roll a "big" effect, such as a Stun or double Burn, then I'd definitely use it, but otherwise it's situational and risky. You don't want to turn a Burn into a double Burn, that's for sure ;)
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On Tuesday I got to play the v7 of my Priestess Deck and my Warlock opponent added in a couple of Mana denial cards for moving creatures and for the upkeep for creatures. Needless to say my strategy was very slow in the development as a result my Priestess lost her head. I did some turning after that match and came up with the next iteration of my Priestess deck. After the long conversation about a temple strategy, I decided to go for it. I pulled out 12 points from my spell book and put in three temples (Hand of Bim-shala, Dawnbreaker, Light) and Ring of Fire and Fortified Position from the FvM expansion. This time I caught my opponent completely off guard and after an 1 1/2 hours took his head. I am very happy with the results and I am looking forward to his counter to my counter!
Here is the latest version of my spell book:
Equipment
Dawnbreaker Ring x 1
Deflection Bracers x 1
Elemental Cloak x 2
Elemental Wand x 1
Enchanter's Ring x 1
Mage Wand x 1
Moonglow Amulet x 1
Staff of Asyra x 1
Creature
Highland Unicorn x 1
Knight of Westlock x 2
Royal Archer x 1
Attack
Geyser x 2
Jet Stream x 1
Ring of Fire x 1
Conjuration
Hand of Bim-Shalla x 1
Mana Crystal x 2
Temple of Light x 1
Temple of the Dawnbreaker x 1
Enchantment
Agony x 1
Bear Strength x 3
Block x 2
Circle of Fire x 1
Divine Intervention x 1
Fortified Position x 1
Harmonize x 1
Hawkeye x 1
Nullify x 3
Reverse Magic x 1
Teleport Trap x 1
Incantation
Charge x 1
Dissolve x 1
Heal x 1
Minor Heal x 1
Piercing Strike x 3
Purge Magic x 1
Rouse the Beast x 1
Seeking Dispel x 1
Steal Enchantment x 1
Teleport x 1
Wall
Wall of Thorns x 1
I tip my hat to Koz!
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Just wanted to update everyone on my Priestess Build. It is much easier for Warlock to make to adapt to my strategy. The next four games played the Warlock came out on top and most of the time handedly. I have gone through a couple of more iterations and landed at v10 of my deck and it played very well yesterday, beating the Warlock in almost exactly 45 minutes. I have say a temple strategy will not work against a very fast agro / beat down deck once Deathlock is out. I tried, trust me I tried. So I did a overhaul on my deck and thinned it out a bit, I now have 38 different cards in my deck with a total count of 45 cards. For the last game I used a Grimson Deadeye, Sniper / Archers Tower / Stone Wall statergery. I kept my mage under the watchful barrel of the sniper and used the Cleric to pick out any reverse attack enchantments and the blasted away with him along with a hurl bolder attached to the Elemental Wand. Dealing out ~15 dice of damage / round ended the game quite quickly and I have to say with a large amount of satisfaction on my side after loosing so many games in a row. I never lost tempo in the game once the armor/cloak came out (along with a well timed nullify) his ability to deal a large amount of damage went way down. Now it all wasn't me, my opponent played a bit more poorly than his use Can of Whoop A#%. His main fault is that he forgot that his demon had the flying trait and at any point could of easily flown over the wall and kicked the snipers booty. Got to figure out what to swap out for Gravikor now. Note only eight different Holy Spells and count of 15 in the total deck which brings the count of holy cards in at 40%. Honestly thinking about removing the Dawnbreaker Ring and Staff of Asyra for Gravikor. Here is my winning spell book.
Equipment
Dawnbreaker Ring x1
Deflection Bracers x1
Dragonscale Hauberk x1
Elemental Cloak x1
Elemental Wand x1
Enchanter's Ring x1
Mage Wand x1
Moonglow Amulet x1
Staff of Asyra x1
Creature
Asyran Cleric x1
Knight of Westlock x1
Grimson Deadeye, Sniper x1
Attack
Geyser x1
Hurl Boulder x1
Conjuration
Archer's Watchtower x1
Battleforge x1
Hand of Bim-Shalla x2
Mana Crystal x2
Temple of Light x1
Wall of Stone x2
Enchantment
Agony x1
Bear Strength x2
Block x2
Divine Intervention x1
Fortified Position x1
Harmonize x1
Hawkeye x1
Nullify x2
Reverse Attack x1
Reverse Magic x1
Incantation
Dissolve x1
Heal x1
Piercing Strike x2
Power Strike x1
Purge Magic x1
Seeking Dispel x1
Steal Enchantment x1
Teleport x1
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Is this build meant for casual or competitive play?
Also, how exactly do you deal with Adramelech? Seems like he pretty handily deals with your list.
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Note the reference to Gravikor. He is one tough SOB. I was thinking about adding in the Angel that deals damage to dark critters. I want to test it against a swarming deck before I decide if it is tourney ready. I think I can handle Argo, one/two big. but I am not sure about swarms.
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Ok, had a good day playing Mage Wars with my buddy yesterday. We played two Priestess vs. Warlock matches with me playing the v10 version of her spell book. I won both games. My strategy of avoiding damage as best as possible early on while building up her strength worked very well. He dropped Idol of Pestilence both games which was fine by me as I would much rather deal with Finite Life than Vampiric.
One valuable lesson learned yesterday was the power of guarding. He kept taking out my creatures before I could get them situated and ready to battle, when I brought out the Sniper I wanted him to last for a while as the sniper is very potent against the LoF. So I had my mage with the Staff, 2 Hands, Bear Strength, Ring of Light on Guard (9 Dice). The counter strike against flying is awesome and if he choses not to attack then the Guard marker lasts through the next round until he is activated again. Which is important for non-initiative rounds. The results were quite clear, he got in around 15 points of damage in both games while took his head. One side note, he was rolling bad through out the day, the D12 for Burns only landed twice while both games ran at 90 minutes.
Taking all of the lessons learned from the last 6 to 7 games, I have updated my Priestess to v11 and I think this deck is tourney ready. I need to test it against swarm types a bit more, but think it is very solid. Once Gravikor is tourney legal I will work it in to the build.
Equipment
Dawnbreaker Ring x1
Dragonscale Hauberk x1
Elemental Cloak x1
Elemental Wand x1
Mage Wand x1
Staff of Asyra x1
Storm Drake Hide x1
Creature
Asyran Cleric x1
Knight of Westlock x1
Grimson Deadeye, Sniper x1
Attack
Geyser x1
Hurl Boulder x1
Conjuration
Hand of Bim-Shalla x2
Mana Crystal x2
Mordok's Obelisk x1
Temple of Light x1
Wall of Stone x1
Enchantment
Agony x1
Bear Strength x2
Block x2
Divine Intervention x1
Force Hold x1
Fortified Position x1
Harmonize x1
Hawkeye x1
Nullify x2
Reverse Attack x1
Reverse Magic x1
Incantation
Battle Fury x1
Dissolve x1
Heal x1
Piercing Strike x1
Power Strike x1
Purge Magic x1
Seeking Dispel x1
Steal Enchantment x1
Teleport x2