Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Halewijn on September 20, 2015, 07:22:24 AM
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Can you choose the order of the push&slam? in that way you can slam, and push a flying creature trough a wall... seems logical but I'm not sure.
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[mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard] can't target flyers.
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If we ignore that the source of the efect is surging wave, i would still like to know, how those effects are executed.
My guess would be that i, controller of that spell is choosing an order of those effects. But that is just my assumption. :)
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surging wave can't target flyers... damn, I've been doing some things wrong.. :p
If we ignore this, still want to know the answer.
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If I recall correctly the Slam is the result of the Push.....
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you are thinking about [mwcard=FWI03]Force Bash[/mwcard]. Since [mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard] gives you a slam without a push when you have a 3-7, this is not the case.
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you are thinking about [mwcard=FWI03]Force Bash[/mwcard]. Since [mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard] gives you a slam without a push when you have a 3-7, this is not the case.
You are correct, though if you take the Flyer out of the equation, I really do not seeing it make a difference. My guess is that if a spell like this was made to affect flyers the Playtesters and those who make this decisions would have a long conversation about this topic and the wording on the card would clarify how these two effects and there order would affect the targeted creature.
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are all wall attacks unavoidable?
i have the cards not with me but the pikes are not i think,
there it would make a difference as you can't use the defense if slammed first
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You're correct that the Wall of Pikes attack isn't unavoidable. I like the way you think!
I don't know that this has ever been ruled on. I went looking for the rule in the FAQ that I thought would say that the controller of the creature would decide the order, but could not find it.
I'm so used to Zuberi being faster than I am. I'm getting rusty :)
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I was all set to tell you all that Wall of Thorns isnt unavoidable, till i checked my druid book (just to be sure) and i realized that of the 3 copies it runs, only one of them is from my core set, i guess it got fixed cuz the other two both said unavoidable. makes that card even more awesome, but onto the OP i cant think of any other situation where it would matter the order. But We've always played the slam as the last result of the attack.
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You're correct that the Wall of Pikes attack isn't unavoidable. I like the way you think!
Actually Wall of Pikes' attack is unavoidable. It's because there's a rule stating that every wall attack is unavoidable.
This is a special kind of attack that is neither melee nor ranged, cannot be avoided, and does not trigger any damage barrier or Counterstrike attacks (see “Attacks” on page 22).
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Wall of Pikes is not unavoidable. In the supplement it specifically calls this out as it was not unavoidable on purpose. I understand the sited text, but Wall of Pikes is the exception.
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Faq entry for Wall of Pikes.
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Okay, now I would like to know a reason for this confusing exception.
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I believe it stems from the concept of the card. When you pass through it's actively attacking you, unlike say Wall of Thorns. I know that Bryan specifically wanted this card this way.
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I believe it stems from the concept of the card. When you pass through it's actively attacking you, unlike say Wall of Thorns. I know that Bryan specifically wanted this card this way.
The irony of that situation. You can avoid the wall that's actively trying to attack you while you can't against one that's just sitting there :P
Ultimately I would say that all results happen simultaneously, which is why you roll the effect die while rolling damage. In this regard the defender would take the damage and be knocked down while being pushed. Order isn't necessary in this specific instance because all effects are present at once.
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If all the effects are simultaneous, in this instance, that's the same as applying the slam last.
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However it isn't, as the push generates a movement action, for the purposes of timing a wall attack, cited by the rule summary sheet 4e.
Personally my logic say this: you roll enough for push and slam. you generate the slam and the push at the same speed, however the result of the push triggers a movement action, which is covered by those rules. Thus the card is resolved before the action triggers, it generates, are resolved.
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That's not bad.
Not that we'd make a card like this, but what about a card that said 8+ Push and Stuck?
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When making attacks with multiple effects you should always define what happens first. maybe you could use some code for it. :)
push & slam: creature is pushed and afterwards slammed.
slam & push: creature is slammed and afterwards pushed.
In real-time I would see this movement as a diagonal downward movement. It's up for interpretation if the creature is low enough to hit the wall when crossing the border.
Another possibility is letting the controller of the creature/attack decide.
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There are two timing rules:
when two players want to do something then it's resolved by initiative (for example revealing enchantments);
when effects are affecting an object its owner decides order they are resolved (burn and regeneration).
If there isn't anything else about timing then the owner of attacked creature should decide order of resolving effects.
I agree with Halewijn that it could be resolved by more detailed card reading rules.
That's not bad.
Not that we'd make a card like this, but what about a card that said 8+ Push and Stuck?
Jelly stream?
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There are two timing rules:
when two players want to do something then it's resolved by initiative (for example revealing enchantments);
when effects are affecting an object its owner decides order they are resolved (burn and regeneration).
If there isn't anything else about timing then the owner of attacked creature should decide order of resolving effects.
I agree with Halewijn that it could be resolved by more detailed card reading rules.
That's not bad.
Not that we'd make a card like this, but what about a card that said 8+ Push and Stuck?
Jelly stream?
Surging tar stream.......