Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sailor Vulcan on June 14, 2015, 11:43:51 AM
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So I want to systematically investigate why mage wars arena has not caught on in the Columbus, Ohio area. It's such a great game, and Columbus has a lot of cultural diversity and a LOT of people, including (presumably) quite a large gaming population.
Hypotheses:
1. Lack of word of mouth because a lack of players? But this presents a chicken/egg problem since what im' trying to determine is why the lack of players in the first place.
2. Because there used to be ambassadors here, but they all left the area early before mage wars had the chance to spread, or maybe without them there was not enough organized play support? (then why am I the ONLY active mage wars arena player left here? Do others exist? And if so, are they simply ignoring my attempts to reach out to them, for some reason? Possible but unlikely.)
3. lack of publicity?
Find out what Arcane Wonders has tried to increase mage wars arena publicity in Columbus Ohio area.
4. because of a cultural norm/custom/value/trend of some kind? I.e. maybe most people here don't play games that take more than 30-45 minutes because they don't have time since they're always busy with something? Maybe a tendency to prefer multiple quick activities over a long deep one, like going to restaurants vs hosting a big dinner at home.
Another possibility is that people here are not adventurous enough, and tend to not want to try new things, or at least new things with a big learning curve. This could also go into the time and efficiency thing.
3 is supported by the fact that most people I talk to, including gamers, have never heard of mage wars, or oftentimes they've heard of it vaguely but don't know anything about it. Or they just confuse it with Summoner Wars or Mage Knight.
4 is supported by my own personal experience trying to share things I like with other people in similar cultural demographics as myself. Among people who like watching anime, reading novels, playing tabletop and videogames, and writing creatively, people I talk to almost never have any specific interests in common with me. We usually watch different animes, read different novels, play different games, and others (at least irl) almost never care to read what I write. So this might be more a property of my own life rather than of the things I like, such as mage wars. Or it could also be the ultimate freak coincidence.
2 is supported by the fact that there used to be more mage wars players in this area, but according to what I heard either on these forums, from AW or both, most of the community moved away rather early on.
1 could also be explained as a difficulty in describing and explaining what the game is like to people who have never tried it before, but I'm not sure. It's easier to describe mage wars in terms of games that already exist than by itself. However, that might be because Customizable Strategy can be kind of a niche genre outside of a couple CCGs (Magic, Yugioh, Pokemon) and most people have never heard of LCG's or "LCG-like" games. So when you say something like "Summoner Wars meets MtG" or "Tabletop minis game meets CCGs with some DnD-ish flavor" then most people, and even a lot of gamers, will have no idea what you are talking about.
What do things look like if 1 is true?
Mage Wars players have trouble explaining what kind of game it is to non-mage wars players, and therefore have trouble convincing people who are most likely to enjoy it to try it.
Test: Send out an email survey to ex-ambassadors, both to specifically ex-columbus ambassadors, and to people who just aren't ambassadors anymore, and ask them how things went for them, and where things succeeded and/or failed. (this test does not distinguish between 1 and 2)
What do things look like if 3 is true?
A large chunk of the target audience in the Columbus, Ohio area have never seen or heard of mage wars at all, or maybe the majority have heard of the game, but not anything about it. Furthermore, advertisements for mage wars in the area are being placed in locations where they will not be seen by enough of the target audience.
Test: Ask arcane wonders what they have or have not tried to increase mage wars publicity in this area.
Note: If both 2 and 3 are true than 3 could be the result of 2. Not sure how to untangle them if that's the case.
What do things look like if 4 is true?
Mage Wars Academy will be significantly more popular than mage wars arena. 4 might be difficult to untangle from the null hypothesis of 3 (if there WAS enough publicity and that wasn't the reason Mage Wars arena didn't catch on.)
Test: Track how popular Mage Wars: Academy is over the next 2-4 years after it's release later this year, using a combination of BGG ratings, facebook likes and surveys. Record both the total # of mage wars arena fans over time vs the total # of mage wars academy fans over time, and check how many of the academy fans knew about arena before trying academy. Do this test for both Columbus specifically, and the world.
Thoughts?
Also do we have any scientific experts on these forums who can help with this? I am just an undergraduate neuroscience major and I do not know anything about marketing or consumer psychology.
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This topic was largely discussed already in your other thread, but I'll go ahead and reiterate my previous thoughts.
It kind of makes sense that most people haven't heard much about Mage Wars. I only learned about it through youtube channels and online lists of highly rated new board games. Arcane Wonders is a small company, and can't afford a lot of extravagant advertising. To be honest, Mage Wars is also a really generic name (especially for a game that, at the moment, more closely resembles a duel or tournament than an actual war). I can easily see uninformed people confusing Mage Wars with Wiz-War, Summoner Wars, Mage Knight, etc.
But I think the main problems with wide-spread adoption are portability, game length, complexity, and a lack of new content. In short, people do tend to prefer shorter activities to 2 hour or more in-depth games (as much as that depresses me, since I've been trying for what seems like forever to get a group of my friends to play Battlestar Galactica with me). That preference is especially true with intimidatingly complex games, which Mage Wars definitely is. A lot of people I know have played one game and then refused to play any more out of frustration.
People are also less likely to play a game of Mage Wars spontaneously, since carrying around the requisite materials is a lot harder than it would be for most regular card games (most only need two decks of cards). Mage Wars Academy seems to be designed around fixing the portability and game length issues (and might possibly tackle the complexity issue as well, since it will eliminate typical board movement).
For people who have already gotten into Mage Wars, I think the biggest problem is lack of content. I respect Arcane Wonder's dedication to balance and quality, but the last new cards came out July 2nd, 2014. The last new Mage archetypes were released in November of 2013 (if my info is correct). You can't have such a massive gap in content and not expect players to get bored. I am excited about Domination, but at this point I think the community desperately needs even more. If Paladin vs Siren doesn't ship by the end of the year, I will really worry about the future of the game.
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This topic was largely discussed already in your other thread, but I'll go ahead and reiterate my previous thoughts.
It kind of makes sense that most people haven't heard much about Mage Wars. I only learned about it through youtube channels and online lists of highly rated new board games. Arcane Wonders is a small company, and can't afford a lot of extravagant advertising. To be honest, Mage Wars is also a really generic name (especially for a game that, at the moment, more closely resembles a duel or tournament than an actual war). I can easily see uninformed people confusing Mage Wars with Wiz-War, Summoner Wars, Mage Knight, etc.
But I think the main problems with wide-spread adoption are portability, game length, complexity, and a lack of new content. In short, people do tend to prefer shorter activities to 2 hour or more in-depth games (as much as that depresses me, since I've been trying for what seems like forever to get a group of my friends to play Battlestar Galactica with me). That preference is especially true with intimidatingly complex games, which Mage Wars definitely is. A lot of people I know have played one game and then refused to play any more out of frustration.
People are also less likely to play a game of Mage Wars spontaneously, since carrying around the requisite materials is a lot harder than it would be for most regular card games (most only need two decks of cards). Mage Wars Academy seems to be designed around fixing the portability and game length issues (and might possibly tackle the complexity issue as well, since it will eliminate typical board movement).
For people who have already gotten into Mage Wars, I think the biggest problem is lack of content. I respect Arcane Wonder's dedication to balance and quality, but the last new cards came out July 2nd, 2014. The last new Mage archetypes were released in November of 2013 (if my info is correct). You can't have such a massive gap in content and not expect players to get bored. I am excited about Domination, but at this point I think the community desperately needs even more. If Paladin vs Siren doesn't ship by the end of the year, I will really worry about the future of the game.
Well crap. I think they said at Origins that academy would probably be released sometime around the holidays. I love mage wars, it's my favorite game ever, but the longer I've been playing, The more bleak things have seemed. I tried so hard to increase the player base here,
And it's like people are just jumping to conclusions and ignoring me. I keep thinking that since mage wars is such a great game, that if people actually gave it a chance, I would not be the sole active player for miles and miles around! If the problem were just mage wars, then there might be like, at least five active players, but I am the ONLY one. Believe me I've searched everywhere very thoroughly. It seems improbable that I would be the ONLY active Mage wars player in my area, and actually the only player whatsoever until very recently. I mean what could possibly be so special about me in particular that I am the only person in the entire area of central Ohio who plays mage wars arena and not just apprentice mode? This seems like too much to be a coincidence.
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I don't know Ohio... but:
I'm sure that the length problem is real: the trend I observe in all irl games is simple rules and 1h30 max.
MW is a lot of rules, a few hours spellbook building and 1h30 min.
About publicity, I think a problem is that gameshops don't know MW!
When I go in a shop in Geneva or France, They telle me: "I heard it's a cool game, but I never played". They can't tell me about MW, they can't show me the box, the cards, etc.
A player who knows the game has to go on the web and a player who doesn't know the game... won't know it.
I'm sure FB, youtube, etc is a great publicity channel, but talking to people irl is one too...
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I think one of the other problems for Mage Wars could be that it is a replacement for Magic the Gathering (at least for me).
1) It's significantly cheaper to have a tournament worthy, extremely fun spell book in Mage Wars rather than Magic.
2) Magic the Gathering and other CCGs are largely responsible for the survival of many game stores.
I can understand a game store owner not wanting his patrons to switch over to Mage Wars from MtG so that he could continue to stay in business. There's not a whole lot of incentive to be exited about losing your income.
In short, Mage Wars is good for the gamer and bad for the game store owner.
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At Origins this year, we had many people from the Ohio, and surrounding area, come up to our booth to buy and play Mage Wars. It sounds like you may be referring to the Diversions group that are playtesters for us in the area, but may not be actively running events recently in terms of the Ohio area scene. I can't speak for them as to why they are doing, or not doing that, but I can assure you, there are many players in the area.
The number one thing I hear from players at all the conventions I go to is "I don't have a lot of people in my area that play this game." There's no easy way to answer the question of "how do I fix this" either, as the real answer is "it depends".
Here's things I've been told by others, that helped them find players:
1.) Speak to the FLGS employees and ask if they know of other players?
2.) Remember that not every player wants to play competitively and may only purchase the game for home use - let's face it, not every one is comfortable just playing with anyone and sometimes they just like playing with close nit friends.
3.) Make flyers or posters and ask you FLGS if you can hang them, to set a night for players to meet - and know that the first few nights may be very light, if nothing at all. I've heard of fans having to go through 2-5 nights to get it to stick, so persistence is the key to this one
4.) If you are going to play, play at a store, so other see you playing and ask questions. - This is huge.
5.) Be active on the forums for your FLGS
6.) Ensure your FLGS is on our Retailer Locater. - http://www.arcanewonders.com/retailer-locator
In terms of what we do, yes, we're a small company but we still make every effort we can. We advertise regularly, on a monthly basis, on BGG, in Meeple Monthly, and have a monthly newsletter that goes to over 800 retailers with a very high percentage of click rates.
We offer a Retailer Locater for FLGSs to ensure their store is on and there's no cost to them for that. We allow anyone to post on our social media pages to promote events (store owners or fans) as well as have the forums here to post about events coming up, or that have been held.
Yes, we have focused on Academy to be a tool both for new players to be introduced to the world of Mage Wars and allow existing players a new way to play, and have a lower barrier to entry option to teach new players about the game they love. Our hopes and plans are that Academy is a stand alone game on it's own, but also acts as a springboard into Arena.
Culturally speaking, I do think we fight an uphill battle every day. If you look at the world of tabletop gaming in general, it's seen an influx of smaller, more portable, faster paced games since the introduction of Love Letter a few years ago. Everyone is trying to capture that magic, and, as well, there's been an influx in social games.
Social gaming, like Sheriff, One night Werewolf, Avalon, Resistance, Coup and many others, attract new consumers to the hobby, but they are most likely casual consumers. They are looking for low price to entry and fast gameplay. They don't want a 90 minute game, they want 3 x 30 minute games. This affects Mage Wars directly as new consumers see the 45-90 minutes and immediately can be turned off. We're not about to lie about how long a game takes, so this is simply a dichotomy of the industry we must work with.
Mage Wars has been consistently successful since 2012. We have not flooded the market with an overload of cards where players couldn't keep up, but admittedly, we can do more than what we have done. We're not Asmodee or Hasbro, but we have our hearts set to make Mage Wars the best game it can be. That starts with us, and continues with our customers who help promote the game.
As for PvS, that was simply announced WAY too soon. The team who was here before I got here, made that public before it was even under development and it's hurt the company overall. I won't mince words about that, as in my opinion, it being announced so soon sets an expectation that can't be fulfilled and upsets everyone, most importantly, our great fans. We are working hard to get that out this year, towards the end of the year. I can promise you it will be awesome when it hits!
Now, as for today... I'm about to post a big announcement right now, which I hope makes everyone a bit happy, if not intrigued for Gen Con...
As always, my "virtual door" is always open to our community. If anyone has questions, just let me know and I'll always do my best to answer them.
In the near term, thank you for your efforts to help promote our game. They are appreciated and frankly, no matter how good a game is, if there's not a great community behind it, it will fail. We believe we have a tremendously awesome community and love all of you!
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I think one of the other problems for Mage Wars could be that it is a replacement for Magic the Gathering (at least for me).
1) It's significantly cheaper to have a tournament worthy, extremely fun spell book in Mage Wars rather than Magic.
2) Magic the Gathering and other CCGs are largely responsible for the survival of many game stores.
I can understand a game store owner not wanting his patrons to switch over to Mage Wars from MtG so that he could continue to stay in business. There's not a whole lot of incentive to be exited about losing your income.
In short, Mage Wars is good for the gamer and bad for the game store owner.
While I don't think game stores are actively working to keep Mage Wars down in order to keep MtG popular so they can stay in business (I don't think they have anything to worry about), I do generally agree that Mage Wars is an MtG replacement for some players (in a nicotine patch sort of way). Unfortunately, I think that one of the reasons it isn't more popular, at least with converting competitive CCG/LCG players, is that Mage Wars matches take as long as they do. It's easy to run an MtG tournament on a weeknight (see popularity of "FNM") because standard/draft matches take ~ 20 minutes. It's very difficult to run a Mage Wars tournament on a weeknight because each round is going to take 1.5 hours or more. Even a 3 round MW tournament is going to take longer than a 5+ round MtG tournament. Perhaps Academy will change that... but I see Academy more as a springboard to Arena rather than a competitive version of MW. Similarly, miniatures gamers (e.g. Warhammer/40k, Warma-Hordes) are used to longer matches and might be willing to put time into a Mage Wars tournament, but if they're already miniatures gamers, they'd probably rather play a miniatures game in that same time slot.
Instead of Academy replacing Arena for competitive/tournament play, hopefully the Mage Wars community will converge on a short Domination scenario (e.g. small map and low V'tar victory condition) that makes for ~ 60 minute matches that maybe becomes the standard for Mage Wars tournaments (?). That might attract players from MtG to try a "heavier" CCG/LCG-style game that isn't "too long," plus entice miniatures gamers into playing a "lighter/quicker" minis-style game (but with cards) when they don't have time for a miniatures game tournament.
As for trying to build a gaming group in a reasonably medium/large city, have you tried attending other board game groups that play other types of games (like Euro-style board games, co-ops, hidden role games, etc)? I'm in a city of ~ 1M (when you include suburbs) and there are about a dozen game stores with open gaming, 4 or 5 board game cafes/pubs, and at least 5 or 6 regular open gaming groups that meet weekly or biweekly in public places, and several Facebook groups for general gaming, specific genres of gaming (like "hidden traitor") and specific games (like X-wing or Netrunner or whatever). My 3 favourite public game groups are held at local legions (e.g. places where military veterans tend to hang out to play pool and darts and drink discounted/subsidized beer) and an Irish pub. In my experience, many attendees are BGG regulars, have huge board game collections (e.g. 100+ designer games), are willing to try just about anything, and rarely play the same game more than once or twice per year - partly because they own so many games and are easily distracted by the new shiny = "cult of the new". Hang out with them for a while, spend some time playing lots of types of games, then introduce them to Mage Wars and convince them that it's the best competitive 2-player game on the market ("even Tom Vasel thinks so!")... and eventually you might find and convince enough players who would like to meet regularly to play something competitive - or might even be ex-CCG players for one reason or another and want to scratch that itch again (but without taking on a second mortgage to do it).
A common phrase in my region was "Mage Wars... the best game I never play!" That is, until I started a regular Mage Wars gaming night at a local store. Now it's "the best game a handful of people play casually but regularly every 2 weeks on a weeknight." And maybe a few months from now it will be "the best game that 8+ people play every 2 weeks plus the occasional tournament on a Saturday afternoon" or something. Fingers are crossed.
Be patient. It probably won't happen overnight.
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I have tried going to tabletop and boardgaming meetup groups. Also, there is only one boardgaming parlour/pub in the entire city that I am aware of, called Kingmakers, and they only allow you to use their games; you can't bring your own.
There are other active mage wars players in Central Ohio!? Are you sure you're not thinking of Northcentral Ohio? When I say Central Ohio, I pretty much just mean Columbus and its suburbs, which has a total radius of ~30-45 car minutes in all directions. I've been trying to find people here for AGES and I've looked in EVERY CONCEIVABLE PLACE, and no one ever responded. I started a facebook group for columbus ohio mage warriors, and the only person who's joined it so far is my older sister, who is still in apprentice mode and not an active player.
Besides her, there are only three other players in the area that I know of, and all of them learned the game from me, are still in apprentice mode, and are not active players.
If there ARE active players in this area, and I have been trying to reach out to them for several years and they haven't responded AT ALL, despite the fact that I have been looking and announcing it many times and pretty much everywhere and where everyone would be able to see it. And as far as I know, there are no active mage wars players in the Columbus area that frequent these forums. Either they're just flat out ignoring me for some reason, or it's like you said and they only want to play casually with a small group of friends and OUTSIDERS ARE FORBIDDEN.
Still, if there ARE active players in my area, even if they will never want to play with me, it's still reassuring that they at least EXIST.
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Now, as for today... I'm about to post a big announcement right now, which I hope makes everyone a bit happy, if not intrigued for Gen Con...
As always, my "virtual door" is always open to our community. If anyone has questions, just let me know and I'll always do my best to answer them.
Thank you for your response. A lot of employees at companies seem to be unwilling to communicate their real thoughts with their community, and instead speak non-stop PR. I just wanted you to know that I really do appreciate your willingness to openly discuss possible mistakes and other potentially uncomfortable topics instead of trying to pretend nothing ever happened. That kind of honesty is incredibly refreshing. :)
they only want to play casually with a small group of friends and OUTSIDERS ARE FORBIDDEN.
That pretty much describes how I play Mage Wars. I've never played in any store or tournament and honestly have no desire to. I wouldn't necessarily turn down an outsider who wanted to play a game or two with me, but I have way more fun playing with people I know. It's more relaxed, and you can more easily play mind-games with people when you know how they think.
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Have you tried starting a regular Mage Wars gaming night at places like The Guard Tower, Soldiery, etc? There are plenty of game shops around that would accommodate you if you ask them (at least they were willing when I lived in Columbus 2.5 yrs ago.) Just ask them to set up a weekly time to play and start spreading by word of mouth. I'm working on growing the game throughout my Columbus game group. It's starting to take hold, but it's a little on the slow side. I'll report back when the group actually buys the game and doesn't just play when I bring all the stuff back during my visits.
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The guardtower is 10-15 minutes away by car, but it's over an hour away by bus, and I have to take 2 buses and some walking to get there. It's pretty much downright impossible to transport my mage wars stuff like that. Not to mention the occasional bad weather. Also, taxis are really expensive.
If I had a friend in the area who was willing to drive me to the guardtower, as well as someone who could help demo with me, things would be MUCH easier.
The soldiery is not a good choice during the semester since they only have open game days on monday nights, which is a school night. And I would have to carry my mage wars stuff on foot much farther to get there. In contrast, the guardtower has opengaming every day or nearly every day of the week. (and it's a much nicer place too).
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There are other active mage wars players in Central Ohio!? Are you sure you're not thinking of Northcentral Ohio?
Sorry, yes, in Northcentral is my understanding. The people who told me they were from Ohio did tell me they traveled, so I'm presuming they are not Columbusians (sp?)
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Sailor:
2 things:
1) Trust Tox on all matters ;p
2) I live in Central Ohio COLUMBUS ... and am a board gamer. There are many of us. Mage Wars is and has been my favorite game since its inception. A few of us play on a regular basis. I don't post here a lot...but there are players here. They just may not have reached out to you. I'm a Gen X'er that has only ever had one thing I've considered "art-worthy" Of my 200+ board games.. this is the one that hangs in the game room. I do what I can when possible to promote this game at hopefully some of the FLGS's you may frequent. Columbus is a thriving city with people that love this game.
-runatyr
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I can understand a game store owner not wanting his patrons to switch over to Mage Wars from MtG so that he could continue to stay in business. There's not a whole lot of incentive to be exited about losing your income.
Ah, not really.
Imho, Mage Wars 'may' appeal to _some_ players who are unhappy with MtG. However, those players are just as likely (or even more likely) to switch to any of the LCGs. Mage Wars is a different kind of game. Game length alone puts it in a different category than MtG. In many ways it's also more reminiscent of a miniature skirmish game than a traditional CCG/LCG.
So, supporting Mage Wars can only increase a store owners profit.
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Sailor:
2 things:
1) Trust Tox on all matters ;p
2) I live in Central Ohio COLUMBUS ... and am a board gamer. There are many of us. Mage Wars is and has been my favorite game since its inception. A few of us play on a regular basis. I don't post here a lot...but there are players here. They just may not have reached out to you. I'm a Gen X'er that has only ever had one thing I've considered "art-worthy" Of my 200+ board games.. this is the one that hangs in the game room. I do what I can when possible to promote this game at hopefully some of the FLGS's you may frequent. Columbus is a thriving city with people that love this game.
-runatyr
Many of us!?
In other words people are just ignoring me. I doubt nobody's noticed my attempts to reach out. I've been reaching out ALL over the place for a very long time. It's not like I've been inconspicuous about it. Everyone in my playgroup except for my sister lives over an hour away, and my sister lives about half an hour away and she rarely is available. None of them have progressed past apprentice mode yet. They all learned the game from me.
I suppose the mage wars community in Columbus Ohio is either so casual and disjointed that there are many small playgroups of close knit friends that never interact with other playgroups, or they're just really private and exclusive... Or maybe they are aware of me and just don't like me for some reason lol.
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Okay, this has gotten ridiculous, and now I'm having a lot of trouble suspending my disbelief and giving people the benefit of the doubt.
For the past several years, I thought that I was the only mage wars player in columbus ohio. Whenever I try to reach out, people almost never respond, and it's impossible to organize anything. Besides those who I introduced to the game myself within the past half a year, only three mage wars players have EVER responded, and I only managed to meet one of them to play two games fo mage wars once, and then never saw that person again. Seriously, this is starting to get really, really, REALLY frustrating.
I've been looking everywhere and reaching out everywhere for years now. WHERE ARE ALL THE COLUMBUS OHIO MAGE WARS PLAYERS? I know you exist!
I honestly can't help thinking that people are just ignoring me on purpose.
And no, that's not paranoia talking, that's "I live in a big effing metropolitan area and I have reached out again and again for the past three years on facebook, boardgamegeek, game conventions, cafes/cofeeshops, these forums, and pretty much every other place where other mage wars players could conceivably be found except for reddit and twitter, and I only got responses from three people, only two of which were willing to schedule anything with me," talking.
Now that I think about it, I've only ever played 1, maybe 2 full nonapprentice games of mage wars in real life outside of Origins and Gen Con, and they were both against the same opponent, who I never saw again after that point because I made an absolute fool of myself in my stressed and sleep-deprived state.
Let me repeat that:
I'VE ONLY EVER PLAYED 1 OR 2 FULL GAMES OF MAGE WARS IN REAL LIFE OUTSIDE OF CONVENTIONS.
ALMOST ALL of my games are on OCTGN, and I've been playing mage wars for THREE YEARS now.
If there really are "many of us", then why aren't there any meetup or facebook groups for columbus ohio mage wars players beside the facebook group I made? And why have almost all of my attempts to reach out to people been completely ignored?
The most likely explanations I've been able to come up with are either
1) there ARE NOT many of us, and runatyr was simply wrong about that as a question of fact. Or maybe there used to be more and most oft them left the area and he hasn't seen them recently enough to know that they left.
2)Everyone is just ignoring me for some reason.
1 doesn't account for how many people have enjoyed mage wars at Origins, nor does it account for why most of the local community would have left the area at around the same time without a regular local player knowing about it.
Which leaves me with 2, but then that begs the question of WHY is everyone just ignoring me? Did I do something really bad to alienate the entire local community? Is there something about me that people just don't like? These sound extremely unlikely, but every other explanation I can think of is just as unlikely if not more so.
And no one seems to have a satisfactory answer to this question.
I am BEYOND fed up now.
I have half a mind to just ask Arcane Wonders how popular has Mage Wars REALLY been at Origins? I know that it's doubtful that they've been at all dishonest about that, but I'm clutching at straws here, and any information that would shed some light on why I can't ******* get any of the mage wars players in the whole Columbus area to play a single non-apprentice game of mage wars with me, would be VERY VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.
I'm hoping I didn't waste my money on Mage Wars Arena, since I really like this game. I'm guessing I'll probably just have to switch to Academy though, since my playgroup lives an hour away and we've never had time for a full non-apprentice game, and it seems evident now that NO ONE ELSE in the columbus ohio area is ever going to play mage wars with me outside of conventions.
This is very upsetting to me, and I am completely at a loss for figuring out WTF is going on with this whole situation.
Insert obscene language here.
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I know nothing about Columbus Ohio, but board gamers can be kind of insular, in my experience. They tend to game with friends, often in private residences, and don't really recruit much. This can make them difficult to find. The exception to this are games with active tournaments and organized play bringing people into game stores. The game length of Mage Wars makes this exception a hard category for it to fit into. Meanwhile, the fact that it is typically two player means that it is really easy to find a friend to play against and then never have to look elsewhere, and I think that is legitimately how a lot of people play.
So, it might not be that people are ignoring you. They may simply just not be looking for others at all. They already have 1+ people to play against, in private, and don't feel the need to find more.
This honestly is not the first time I've had issues with this kind of thing. As a freshman in high school I wanted to get into D&D. Even though I actually knew a few people who played, I could never seem to get into a game. After two years of failing to play, I finally bought the books, taught myself, and organized my own group. Sometimes if you want something, you have to make it yourself, including a game group.
I recently moved to Richmond, and for the past 3 weeks my partner and I have been going to a local game store every Thursday at 5:30, setting up the Arena, and putting up a sign inviting people to Demo the game. The first week not a single person tried it the whole 4 hours we sat there. The next week they had a huge Force of Will event, and again nobody tried out Mage Wars but we did talk to a bunch of people and several seemed interested. Even though they were there for other reasons, it got me publicity of sorts. This last week, we had multiple demos back to back the entire time there. It can be slow and painful, but I'm positive that I'll eventually have a regular group.
So, maybe you aren't having luck finding people to play with other than those who you introduce the game to yourself. But that can be enough. Persistence and consistency go a long ways. Some tricks that I've found useful:
1. Set a date/time to play and be consistent. People like forming habits/routines and being able to count on their schedule.
2. Don't take a vote on when/where you should meet. Simply set a place and time and tell people that's what you're doing. If others have issues with it, they'll tell you and if too many have issues you can choose to change things around. But again, you decide the changes. If you put these kinds of decisions to a committee, they will die in committee and nothing will ever get done. Remember that you can't please everyone.
3. Play in a public place, preferably one where interested gamers are likely to be. Unless you're only interested in people you're already friends with, inviting strangers over to your house is going to severely limit interest in joining your group. Playing in public makes people feel more comfortable usually, and playing around other gamers is basically free advertisement.
4. Advertise. Sounds like you're already doing this, but you might have more luck once you set a time/place as mentioned above. Vague requests to play a game sometime at some place isn't going to get as much of a response as "I'm going to be at specific place at specific time on a regular basis." With this information people will actually check their calendars, might even make room on their calendars since they know it is definitely going to happen, and don't have to negotiate with a stranger on issues of convenience and logistics which can cause loads of anxiety (and there's already plenty enough anxiety when joining a new group).
Anyways, I'm sorry you've had so much trouble finding people to play with and I hope it improves.
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1) there ARE NOT many of us
Most likely this in combination with what Zuberi mentioned:
I suspect that most of the Mage Wars players are not interested in playing in public and/or at tournaments. It might also be popular with couples.
I have/had a similar problem with the CoC LCG: While it seems a somewhat popular game that at least sells well, it's really hard to find (regular) players for it.
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I have never seen you in real life, so it can be really wrong, but you seem to be very intense about it. I can imagine you being very excited once you have found people and maybe be a little too intense and scare them off.
Also, you are very experienced in mage wars and I presume you kick their ass while playing a game? Maybe try not using too advanced strategys when teaching someone. No one likes getting destroyed in a game. Not saying you should lose on purpose. In general its always better when both people are new or both experienced.
And what jhaelen said.
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Part of the problem with that is that I'm not very good at pretending that I'm not holding back. If I go easy on someone they'll have a pretty decent chance of figuring it out. I'm thinking that if and when my playgroup moves on to the full game, I'll be playing a weaker deck. Maybe I'll lower my spellbook points or something. Not sure what the optimal method for handicapping is.
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Intangible was the one that actually got a lot of us into Mage Wars out here. What he did was just facebook all the people he knew played board games, and said lets all get together once a week an play! It ended up being a pretty consistent thing for a few months where we had 10+ people going. If most of the people from that group hadn't moved away I think we would still all get together today.
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Part of the problem with that is that I'm not very good at pretending that I'm not holding back. If I go easy on someone they'll have a pretty decent chance of figuring it out. I'm thinking that if and when my playgroup moves on to the full game, I'll be playing a weaker deck. Maybe I'll lower my spellbook points or something. Not sure what the optimal method for handicapping is.
I seem to be in the minority on this, but I don't think one should ever hold back in a game. Not only is it condescending, but it is actually unfair to your opponent. You are denying them the opportunity to learn from your strategies and improve their game play.
I think it's better to make your game play more transparent, especially to brand new players. By this, I mean you need to explain not only what you're doing during a game, but why you're doing it so that they understand your thoughts and strategies and have an easier time combating them. You're not holding back your punches, but you are telegraphing them, and once they know what to look out for they won't need you to hold back.
Also, you need to be able to win gracefully. When you win you shouldn't make them feel like you're gloating over their crushed remains, but rather that they are respected and a joy to play against. They need to feel like you're taking them seriously.
Anyways, as long as you find a way to make sure everyone has fun is the important thing.
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When I am teaching, I am never playing win, I am playing to teach. For example guards or flying or elusive. I try to position myself in way that I can illustrate the "counter" card that they could play to enhance the understanding of the game.
Next time you go to teach a 5 year old how to ride a bike, tell em: get on the bike, grab the handlebars and push the pedals with your feet as fast as you can, race you to the corner, the last one their is a rotten egg. Feels good to win does it not? >:)
Hope the sarcasm and the point come through clearly...
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When I am teaching, I am never playing win, I am playing to teach. For example guards or flying or elusive. I try to position myself in way that I can illustrate the "counter" card that they could play to enhance the understanding of the game.
Next time you go to teach a 5 year old how to ride a bike, tell em: get on the bike, grab the handlebars and push the pedals with your feet as fast as you can, race you to the corner, the last one their is a rotten egg. Feels good to win does it not? >:)
Hope the sarcasm and the point come through clearly...
I agree that the point is to teach the game. The game is about killing your opponent however, which makes the point teaching them the best way to kill their opponent. If you purposefully play badly, then they learn to play badly.
With the biking analogy, teaching them how to operate the bike would be equivalent to explaining the game before you play. The actual game would then be the bike race. If I purposefully avoid the most efficient path to win the race, then they probably aren't going to learn that path and be ill prepared for a legitimate competition. If we take out the racing competition and just focus on the learning to ride part, then I'm not going to teach them how to ride a bike by sitting on it backwards as a demonstration. You have to show them the proper way to do things.
Which is what I mean when I say you should play your best. It is so you can teach them how to seriously compete and proper tactics. You can do this without being a jerk. You most certainly illustrate the points of your positions and ways to counter your positions, but you take those positions because they are good positions to take.
Anyways, we're veering off topic. I was simply responding to his comment that he has trouble pretending that he's not holding back, probably because he realizes most people would be insulted to find out that he was just toying with them. So, I was letting him know that he doesn't have to do that. Or he could simply ask his opponent beforehand, "would you like for me to take it easy on you?"
To further answer Sailor Vulcan's question, if you do want to play with a handicap I recommend lowering your Mage's starting Life. This handicap is easy to scale and can be done without needing to modify your book any.
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I did not mean you should hold back. Just dont use advanced stuff when someone is playing his first 2-3 times.
Examples not to do:
-when the opponent has no armor, using the wall thorn push when he has the initiative. To do it again during your initiative.
-In general I wouldnt use sleep.
-Mana denial
-Extreme rushing him to dead early on.
-Etc...
In general, use a strong, but straight forward deck. Not denying their actions. Let them have fun using their own deck. Simply, dont hold back, but dont use the really nasty stuff. These things are fun once you get into the game more.
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if you play hard teaching and he/she plays again, then it's a future real MW-gamer!
(game darwinism)