Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sartalo on July 25, 2014, 04:38:56 PM

Title: Expansion cards
Post by: Sartalo on July 25, 2014, 04:38:56 PM
Hi All,

I have seen many posts regarding the number of certain cards included in the core sets and expansions that have come out since. I am one of those players who keeps multiple spellbooks prepared because I am usually the one supplying the game and introducing new players.  It can therefore become annoying facing the lack of certain core cards (I'm looking in your direction dispel and disolve).

My comment is this.  When a new expansion comes out and the rulesheet has a listing of the suggested cards to use as a basic spellbook utilizing a new mage, would it not be possible to include a copy of all the necessary cards? It would be a huge help, especially for new players wanting to get into the game.  Rather than immediately investing in the core box, they could purchase an expansion and could get right into the game.  For those of us who have been playing for a long time and have all the expansions, I know there are plenty of us out there who would not say no to having more copies of certain basic cards.  I mean lets face it, I have 12 spellbooks, why would I not want to have them all loaded and ready to go!

I have seen arguments about how you can put a place holder in the spellbook and then swap out the cards you require from another spellbook, but I find that a bit of an annoyance when you are trying to do it on the fly with limited time to play.  I would even love to see another "Core Spells" set that offers up another collection of previously printed (but universal and incredibly handy) spells.  Things like, dispel, disolve, block, regrowth belt, minor heal, retaliate, just to name a few.

Has anyone from Arcane Wonders commented on this possibility yet?
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Wildhorn on July 25, 2014, 08:44:26 PM
If you want extra spells from the Base Box, juste buy Core Boxes. No need to add basic spells in expension, it would just increase the price and be useless for people who already have tons of these cards.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Brian VanAlstyne on July 25, 2014, 10:52:38 PM
Yea, just spend $60. No big deal.

If Arcane Wonders doesn't see the possible monetary potential in the idea of selling core mage booster packs for $10.00 or core school spells (Holy, Dark, Nature, etc) for $10-$15, they're missing out on a world of possible money.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 26, 2014, 04:51:15 AM
Hehe yeah core sets don't come cheap that's for sure. Cheaper than most games to get the comparable amount of stuff but still. Spell Tomes we have out are ok but you do end up paying $20 for basically the five or six cards you wanted extras of(like oh say another Grizzly) while just taking the extras of what you don't want as well.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Boocheck on July 26, 2014, 05:03:51 AM
Some kind of personal online expansion builder will be cool.

You will just put into basket all cards you need and order them. This kind of e-shop would be awesome :) ... and pretty complicated.

Right now, i am fine with current numbers of cards. But that doesnt mean that i dont want to hoard more of them :)

Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: magerunner on July 26, 2014, 06:56:45 AM
Some kind of personal online expansion builder will be cool.

You will just put into basket all cards you need and order them. This kind of e-shop would be awesome :) ... and pretty complicated.

Right now, i am fine with current numbers of cards. But that doesnt mean that i dont want to hoard more of them :)
This is a good idea, and not unheard of (CCG/TCG singles).  If the ideas that it could hurt the purchase of core sets, that is possible.  Core set (while expensive) offer a huge amount of cards and accessories for the price.  So much so that after a second core it be comes cumbersome to keep up with all of it.

If I could go to a card maker at arcanewonders.com and then choose X number of previously printed cards (I am thinking core set and possible some from older expansions) and then have them shipped to me.... oh yes I would.  Wanting to play a beast master (core) then realizing that you only get 2 Thundergrif Falcons per Core, very irritating. 
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 26, 2014, 09:30:26 AM
You know how for some games if you lose certain components you can buy replacements? I'm missing my ring of curses card, and I have no idea how it went missing or where I can find it. But it would be nice if there was some way to replace just that card, even if only temporarily for an organized play event.

I'm wondering about the idea of mage booster packs where you know exactly what's in them before buying them. Not sure if this would be worth it though.


And now I just thought of another idea that will be even better. I might be wrong, but at origins if you didn't have a custom spellbook they would let you use one of their preconstructed books, right? I wonder if they could loan single cards like that? Like say, if someone is missing a ring of curses card and wants to put one in their spellbook for a tournament, the tournament organizers could lend one to them temporarily for the duration of the tournament and that card would be returned at the end just like a whole preconstructed book would be.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Wildhorn on July 26, 2014, 11:47:04 AM
Yea, just spend $60. No big deal.

If Arcane Wonders doesn't see the possible monetary potential in the idea of selling core mage booster packs for $10.00 or core school spells (Holy, Dark, Nature, etc) for $10-$15, they're missing out on a world of possible money.

/facepalm

Yeah, Core Spell Tome 1 & 2 (http://www.arcanewonders.com/products/accessories) are absolutely not what you are asking for...
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: barriecritzer on July 26, 2014, 12:05:11 PM
If you are going to buy both spell tomes you might at well just buy another core game and get all the extra components, if you only need 1 of the spell tomes then yes the spell tome is worth it
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Master Ruprecht on July 27, 2014, 04:32:41 AM
I totally second this. As local organiser of OP and someone wanting to spread the love for Mage Wars, I tried to have all of the preconstructed books as well as two or three own builds prepared. Sadly there is several cards missing, the Thunderrift Falcon being really annoying as even with two Cores and one of each Tomes you lack one if you want to build a Beastmaster with six Falcons.

I would love the idea of being able to buy single cards. Or preconstructed books. Or a third Tome with cards like Barracks, Falcon, Standard Bearer, Teleport, Regrowth Belt, ...
Or maybe those cards (with alternative artwork?) for OP Kits?
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: kiwipaul on July 27, 2014, 08:18:25 AM
So, where are you based Master Rupert
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Laddinfance on July 27, 2014, 08:25:41 AM
I would love the idea of being able to buy single cards. Or preconstructed books. Or a third Tome with cards like Barracks, Falcon, Standard Bearer, Teleport, Regrowth Belt, ...
Or maybe those cards (with alternative artwork?) for OP Kits?

In future OP Kits we have alternate art Teleport, Rhino Hide, and Bear Strength.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: barriecritzer on July 27, 2014, 10:21:50 AM
good we need more teleports, I have 2 copies of the base game and 2 of each spell tome and still run short on teleports.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Master Ruprecht on July 27, 2014, 03:55:04 PM
In future OP Kits we have alternate art Teleport, Rhino Hide, and Bear Strength.

Great!

And I vote for Falcon, Standard Bearer and Barracks next, then Regrowth Belt, Leather Boots and Gloves   8) ;D

So, where are you based Master Rupert

I am living in Germany (Marburg at the moment, Freiburg waiting).
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: BoomFrog on July 27, 2014, 04:16:08 PM
Why standard bearer and barracks? Those are both things you will only want 1 of in a book and only for a single mage. It's not something sl most people will run short of.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Master Ruprecht on July 28, 2014, 08:18:45 AM
I know, but I definitly want both a second time to have both preconstructed Warlords at the same time, and a third time to build at least one Warlock of my own (better yet a forth time so I can buid both in addition to the preconstructed).   8)
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: DailyRich on July 28, 2014, 09:21:51 AM
Why standard bearer and barracks? Those are both things you will only want 1 of in a book and only for a single mage. It's not something sl most people will run short of.

If you want to build both Warlords simultaneously, you'd need two copies of FvW, since each comes one to a box.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Cnoedel on July 30, 2014, 05:46:27 PM
It surely would not hurt to print one more "Barrack" and "Standard Bearer" and have it in the FiF.

In conclusion it is either:

- Not thought through because AW didn't expect us to put all prebuild Mages together at once

OR

- nasty businessmaking on the back of their customers

...This isn't the fist time this issue appeared and sadly i think it won't be the last - I won't complain since I am  not able to play that often but i see myself buying a second core somewhere in time so i guess they already won :D >:(
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Lord0fWinter on July 30, 2014, 06:38:24 PM
It surely would not hurt to print one more "Barrack" and "Standard Bearer" and have it in the FiF.

In conclusion it is either:

- Not thought through because AW didn't expect us to put all prebuild Mages together at once

OR

- nasty businessmaking on the back of their customers

...This isn't the fist time this issue appeared and sadly i think it won't be the last - I won't complain since I am  not able to play that often but i see myself buying a second core somewhere in time so i guess they already won :D >:(

Or it's because they are trying to get as many new cards out there as possible. People who try building all the spellbooks at once are in a very small minority, so they are basing their card distribution on getting out new cards instead of reprinting old ones. Laddin has mentioned something along these lines before I think (too lazy to find it).

I know they are aware of this issue and are discussing ways to fix it. I also remember a post discussing the possibility of releasing a Barracks and Standard Bearer card with alternate art for the Anvil Throne Warlord, basically a Dwarven Barracks instead of an Orcish one. Can't find it, sorry. Hopefully this isn't my imagination playing another trick on me -_- Just know that they're doing what they can.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Cnoedel on July 30, 2014, 06:53:25 PM
We are talking about 1x Barrack and 1x Standard Bearer - or in general: All Unique cards that came in Expansion packs (since the core set ones are added in the second core spell tome i suppose)

Reprinting 2 cards and add them to FiF is not a big deal at all, regarding that this small minority of hardore fans/supporters need to buy the set all over again thus pissing them off.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: BoomFrog on July 30, 2014, 06:57:34 PM
2 more reprints of old cards means 2 less copies of new cards. Exactly which 2 cards should they have removed from FiF to make room for the extra barracks and standard bearer?
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Cnoedel on July 30, 2014, 07:19:54 PM
"2 more reprints of old cards means 2 less copies of new cards."

Because there was not enough space in the Box for 2 more cards? You have got to be kidding me :D
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: sIKE on July 30, 2014, 07:47:44 PM
"2 more reprints of old cards means 2 less copies of new cards."

Because there was not enough space in the Box for 2 more cards? You have got to be kidding me :D
This it's the real question. What two would you pull out to put those two in? Only so many cards can be printed and packaged for any given set. So once again which two? Understand that there will be someone or some group that will feel the same about the two cards that you choose to pull out, the same way you feel about these two cards. No win situation honestly.

Maybe one day they will release a spellbook builders expansion pack that helps with this kind of situation.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Cnoedel on July 30, 2014, 08:02:24 PM
If under any circumstances Arcane Wonders is unable to put in two more cards, yes you both are right, i wouldn't cut off a single card in FiF ( Haha, I dislike Sardonyx so he could have been the chosen two :D:D, just kidding)

But why isn't this the real question? Why is there a limit that cannot be crossed by two cards? I don't want to judge on AW but i cannot see the problem there
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Laddinfance on July 31, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
If under any circumstances Arcane Wonders is unable to put in two more cards, yes you both are right, i wouldn't cut off a single card in FiF ( Haha, I dislike Sardonyx so he could have been the chosen two :D:D, just kidding)

But why isn't this the real question? Why is there a limit that cannot be crossed by two cards? I don't want to judge on AW but i cannot see the problem there

Not to go into too much detail, as I'm sure I'd bore you all with production, but the quantities of cards in our sets are precisely numbered to coincide with the size of card sheets that our manufacturer uses. If we do not print based on the quantities on their print sheets then our cost goes up greatly, as they effectively have to print the whole sheet regardless of how many extra cards we need.

Right now Forged in Fire has a quantity of cards that fit this. If we add two cards, then we would need to fill the rest of the print sheet to keep from disproportionally increasing cost.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: V10lentray on July 31, 2014, 07:05:26 PM
good we need more teleports, I have 2 copies of the base game and 2 of each spell tome and still run short on teleports.

I rarely run more than 1 Teleport. You must be doing something wrong...
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: ringkichard on July 31, 2014, 08:44:43 PM
I rarely run more than 1 Teleport. You must be doing something wrong...

Oh, my sweet summer child.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 31, 2014, 10:15:45 PM

good we need more teleports, I have 2 copies of the base game and 2 of each spell tome and still run short on teleports.

I rarely run more than 1 Teleport. You must be doing something wrong...

You rarely run more than one teleport, your local meta game must be different. Here's an experiment to try: play an earth wiz kill zone build with 4 teleports and see if the number of teleports your opponents include in their builds changes, and also see whether this changes the number of teleports that you yourself end up deciding to include in the future.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Wildhorn on August 01, 2014, 06:32:16 AM

good we need more teleports, I have 2 copies of the base game and 2 of each spell tome and still run short on teleports.

I rarely run more than 1 Teleport. You must be doing something wrong...

You rarely run more than one teleport, your local meta game must be different. Here's an experiment to try: play an earth wiz kill zone build with 4 teleports and see if the number of teleports your opponents include in their builds changes, and also see whether this changes the number of teleports that you yourself end up deciding to include in the future.

Try to stack armor and then laugh at golem pit.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: jacksmack on August 01, 2014, 09:14:07 AM
I thought golem pit was - if not completely then partly - replaced with jelly pit.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Wildhorn on August 01, 2014, 09:25:58 AM
I thought golem pit was - if not completely then partly - replaced with jelly pit.

Those are even funnier to deal with. A Repulse and you are out of danger.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on August 01, 2014, 10:00:04 AM
I thought earth wiz kill zone builds nowadays use both jellies AND golems?
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: Mrmt on August 01, 2014, 12:15:36 PM
A simple 'no teleport' rule would solve a lot of these issues, I suspect.
Title: Re: Expansion cards
Post by: sIKE on August 01, 2014, 12:31:54 PM
A simple 'no teleport' rule would solve a lot of these issues, I suspect.
"Simple" is not simple.....