Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: silverclawgrizzly on June 14, 2014, 12:14:06 AM
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Ok got into this game literally the last week of December last year very much by accident. Literally had the local game store had their orders right I'd have never played Mage Wars. But thankfully they didn't know what they were doing so hey now I'm an ambassador with a steadily growing local scene with a few large events under our belts and dreams of hosting a massive tournament next November. Anyway I'm bored at work(tell no one) so I thought I'd give my Likes and few Dislikes about the game so far.
Likes:
1. I'm still not that amazing at it. Main thing I like is I'm about on the same level as the majority of my local group. True I just got the crap beat out of me by our reigning tournament champ, but eh overall I win about as much as a lose. I've been "the man" in another competitive game(hero clix) and it's boring. I feel challenged when I play Mage Wars and I have to fight like a mad man for every win.
2. I love the sheer diversity of the game. Playing a Holy Mage is vastly different than a Mind mage, Druids play totally different from Warlords, and a Wizard isn't a Necromancer by any means. Overall the game is incredibly balanced and fun, I've yet to see any one mage that is vastly superior or inferior(this is NOT an invitation to start that argument again btw.)
3. Haven't gotten sick of it yet. That's saying a lot when I average 4-8 games a week. That's not counting if I go do a demo day at a local store. Btw local stores are ecstatic to have someone go run games for them I've noticed. Much more so than with clix or anything else I've ever demoed.
4. I love the flavor of the game. Spellbooks were a genius idea, who ever came up with that go buy yourself a giant ice cream sundae cause they're awesome. Spells like Tanglevine, Force Hammer, and Renewing Rain are my favorite types cause they're easy to imagine taking place in a fantasy world. This is a rare trait in a competitive game.
5. Matches actually feel like a duel of wits. I've no idea what's in your spell book. Yeah you put down a Priestess and I can probably guess "Oh yeah lots of healing and Brogan will probably show up" but I've no real idea what's coming until it shows up. I can dissect a hero clix team by simply looking at it. With Mage Wars I'm on my toes more.
6. The artwork on the cards is pretty good actually. Mind you I think we're past the point in gaming where the artwork can afford to be bad but there's some pretty nice cards out there.
7. It's a satisfying process to just constantly tinker with my spell books. I'm always adjusting, modifying, and trying new things in even my established books. I evolve or I lose plain and simple. I know I'm not the only one who enjoys simply adjusting their books.
8. The prize support is totally inconsequential. Promo cards you can't legally use in a major tournament? A year ago I'd have said they were worthless, however now they're great. It keeps the competitive scene relatively casual and free spirited.
Dislikes:
1. I hate group games. This is just a personal preference but anything past 1v1 gets bogged down in my view. Team battles aren't horrible(though the rules need to be hammered out more) but big melees always seem to end up with me having to fight off 2-3 mages by myself. Mind you I figure they're just jealous of my obviously dashing good looks and rapier wit but still.....you ever tried fighting 2 Force Masters with a Priest? Stupid Jedi....
2. Tournament play is a little rough sometimes too. In so far as you gotta house rule how to take care of ties. Tournaments are fun, they're a blast in fact so overall I love em, but yeah while house rules give a nice "local flavor" to an event I'd probably prefer some official rules there. Also yeah I know we'll get em eventually.
3. I hate Force Masters. Just saying. They're an awesome mage, well balanced and not at all over powered, but I friggin hate em. Mostly cause I lose to them a lot. Stop putting my bears to sleep! I cast them to eat your face not hibernate! I couldn't actually think of anything else I don't like about the game so I figured a petty personal gripe would suffice ;D
Overall my dislikes are all small potatoes(except the stupid Jedi) and I'm really glad I found this game. There are more reasons I like it but those are personal 8)
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I must agree, that tournament "rules" need some boost or polishing. 75 minutes are way too low for priestes vs priestes battles :)
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I must agree, that tournament "rules" need some boost or polishing. 75 minutes are way too low for priestes vs priestes battles :)
You can build an agresive priestess that kills in 40 - 45 minute range. Even without playing an agresive build a large percentage of players will get bogged down in planing phase or often lose site of the goal. To win kill the other mage.
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I am fully aware of an aggresive priestes or priest build, but if you put two novices against each other, feeling from the match for them leaves not a good memory thus desire to play again is lowered.
For not being discouraged to enter a tournament for new players, we had no time limit. It works just beause of low number of participants and i know, that if this would be applied on some bigger tournaments, it would be dissaster :)
And i agree, planning phase is a time killer. I will try to set a timer for planning phase. Maybe this will help :)
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When we first started playing locally the Priestess players turtled up and took a while to get going. Now they still get the ground work going at the beginning but are better at playing aggressively so as to threaten their opponents.
I by no means think tournaments are bad(and would much rather focus on the positive aspects of my post.) I've had an absolute blast running two and even playing in another.
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In reference to time limits and spellbook.
I will say that just like any competitive game, there are casual and tournament builds. If you know you have a time limit you do not build a book that will not get going for 12-20 turns.
75 minutes is a long time, for a completive environment, for one round. When one guy rolls his opponent in 15 minutes he has to sit for an hour. It can happen, I have seen it twice.
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If you're taking twenty rounds just to set up, then your opponent has already won long before then even if they're playing the most defensive well-designed spellbook possible. The only reason the game would take that long that I can think of is that both you and your opponent are taking twenty rounds to set up. If that's the case, I think you should try to diversify your local metagame by introducing more aggressive builds.
Also, people should really know their spellbooks before entering a tournament. From my experience it can take a couple days to a week to come up with a decent spellbook, but a month or two to make it really good. That includes a lot of testing your spellbook and practicing with it, after game discussions, and breaks in between.
Sure, if control player B and aggro player A both don't know their spellbooks well enough, they'll take way too long in the planning phase and it will go to time with A's victory.
But if they're both decent players who know their spellbooks well, it could be anyone's game, generally speaking.
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In reference to time limits and spellbook.
I will say that just like any competitive game, there are casual and tournament builds. If you know you have a time limit you do not build a book that will not get going for 12-20 turns.
75 minutes is a long time, for a completive environment, for one round. When one guy rolls his opponent in 15 minutes he has to sit for an hour. It can happen, I have seen it twice.
Mage old friend you've got a fantastic point. At both our tournaments we have had people just sitting around haven't we? Maybe we should bring some "filler" stuff like comic books or crayons next time.
I'll tell you what WOULD be neat for tournaments though. I saw the prints that were handed out at Origins, if Ambassadors could order stuff like that and offer them up then that'd be really really cool.
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I'll tell you what WOULD be neat for tournaments though. I saw the prints that were handed out at Origins, if Ambassadors could order stuff like that and offer them up then that'd be really really cool.
I don't know about other artists, but Lorraine Schleter has prints you can order of some of the art she did for MW on her website at -->HERE<-- (http://www.lorillustration.com/shop/).
I've got a couple myself and they're really nice. It would be cool if you could order them with the Ambassador points though.
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Hmm, points... where can i check my points? :)
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Hmm, points... where can i check my points? :)
Hmm not sure.. I'm still waiting to be accepted as an Ambassador at all :P I just applied like last week but I should have done it ages ago.
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Hmm, points... where can i check my points? :)
Boo as I actually had to figure this out myself I'll answer you 8). Log onto the Arcane Wonders Store. They should have you set up as an Ambassador, if not e-mail Patrick. Click on "My Account" in the top right corner. Then click on Bonuses. It'll tell you how many points you got. Be patient when it comes to waiting on them to update your points from events, it's a busy time of year and they got a lot of plates on a lot of fires right now.
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Thanks! Will do it slowly :) i am not in a hurry :)
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3. I hate Force Masters. Just saying. They're an awesome mage, well balanced and not at all over powered, but I friggin hate em. Mostly cause I lose to them a lot. Stop putting my bears to sleep! I cast them to eat your face not hibernate! I couldn't actually think of anything else I don't like about the game so I figured a petty personal gripe would suffice ;D
I totally agree with your opinion on the Forcemaster. She is balanced and powerful but she is the only mage I can't stand. I hate playing as her and I hate playing against her. I'm hoping the next Forcemaster will be radically different from the first.
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I hate trying to kill a Forcemaster that stacks 4+ armor, 3 defenses, and Forcefield. You just can't get any meaningful attack damage through all of that. Curses can help, but it's still annoying, and for mages without lots of curses, it's downright frustrating. Plus I just don't like Mind Control.
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Eh they're ok, I can generally beat two out of the three folks in my area who use Force Masters at least half the time. I haven't played one yet cause I like the idea of having a "rival" mage for me to battle. Plus if I play them I'll better understand how to beat them and I prefer to learn through trial and error. They really are cool mages honestly, they stick out in terms of play style more than any other in my opinion which is awesome.
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Don't get me wrong. I beat them. It can just take so long if they layer their defensive options and heal. It's not that they're too good, it's that they can be frustrating to play against.
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Yeah you mentioned curses earlier, we're getting Arcane Corruption soon and that'll be a game changer as will perhaps the Harshforge Monolith. In fact the moonlight may be even more so as a typically creature light Force Master will have to dedicate a higher percentage of their resources to take it down as opposed to a Beast Master with lots of minions to do the work for them.
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Try this format for events
It is the current one I am testing
75 minute rounds
4 points for a win before time - 0 points to the loser
When time is called you complete the current round you are in then. To see if a winner can be decided after time we looked at the highest remaining life totals.
3 Points for a win after time - 1 point to the loser
1 point to each player for a perfect draw
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Try this format for events
It is the current one I am testing
75 minute rounds
4 points for a win before time - 0 points to the loser
When time is called you complete the current round you are in then. To see if a winner can be decided after time we looked at the highest remaining life totals.
3 Points for a win after time - 1 point to the loser
1 point to each player for a perfect draw
I have been chewing on the idea of giving a point to anyone who holds an opponent off and survives the round. I have an event on the 29th I'll bring the idea up at but I don't know if the venue will go for it. Next time we have a tournament on campus I'll try it out though.
I look at total damage taken over a round as opposed to remaining life. If a Warlock and a Force Master both take 20 damage well then obviously the Warlock has more life remaining he started with 38 but the Force Master was fighting just as hard. We actually give players note cards and pencils and say "Write down when you take damage please" in case they heal up.
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As someone who plays in Silverclaws tournaments I do think that method works but it really does hamper my Priestess strategy because if I can't put away the opposition they are guaranteed to do more damage to me because of healing. So while the opposition may be closer to death I most likely have taken more damage.
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Try this format for events
It is the current one I am testing
75 minute rounds
4 points for a win before time - 0 points to the loser
When time is called you complete the current round you are in then. To see if a winner can be decided after time we looked at the highest remaining life totals.
3 Points for a win after time - 1 point to the loser
1 point to each player for a perfect draw
I have been chewing on the idea of giving a point to anyone who holds an opponent off and survives the round. I have an event on the 29th I'll bring the idea up at but I don't know if the venue will go for it. Next time we have a tournament on campus I'll try it out though.
I look at total damage taken over a round as opposed to remaining life. If a Warlock and a Force Master both take 20 damage well then obviously the Warlock has more life remaining he started with 38 but the Force Master was fighting just as hard. We actually give players note cards and pencils and say "Write down when you take damage please" in case they heal up.
We tried total damage taken and even at major events some player forgot to write it down. ???
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Counting damage, mana, creatures, actions, spellpoints... i think that law, order and math are not proper tools to decide, which mage/player is a winner of actual game.
I was thinking about referee as a judge in this kinds of situation. He will listen to both players, their plan for next three rounds, check their spellbooks and then decide a probable winner.
If i will play attrition priestess, keeping my two knights alive, neutralizing all threats and step by step building a point (hold, step, situation) in which i will start defeating my oponent. That moment (point) is not always visible or easily reachable. I fully understand reasons why cannot there be a 2 hours for one match.
Referee decisions like in boxing would be an elegant solution from my point of view. But that will also depends on quality and experience of those "judges".
Statistics or math could be applied if you take all creatures, unplayed attack cards, their mana cost and level and do some cool formula, then roll specific ammount of dice simulating next 5 rounds minus healing effects and armor and apply this on actual live value of mage... :)
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As someone who plays in Silverclaws tournaments I do think that method works but it really does hamper my Priestess strategy because if I can't put away the opposition they are guaranteed to do more damage to me because of healing. So while the opposition may be closer to death I most likely have taken more damage.
Devil it's possible we can take a slightly different approach to help balance it out for the Priestess builds.