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Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: echephron on June 06, 2014, 11:19:10 PM

Title: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: echephron on June 06, 2014, 11:19:10 PM
Edited: OP is long gone.

Bold statement: If you have a question about the rules or cards of the new set, and if the answer is on the forum, then its in this post. Search by the keyword like the spell name or effect. Feel free to add questions as we go too.
 
1) Fireweaving: EDIT july16th overrulled previous answer.
The lady Warlock cannot move burn markers onto Flame Immunity or burn-proof creatures. You choose which order [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ01] Adramelech's Torment[/mwcard] and Fireweaving take place.
If you are immune to something you cannot have that condition on you. So If you are flame immune, you cannot have burn tokens on you. It doesn't matter how they were moved their.

2) Flame +1 applies to every attack, including doublestrike and [mwcard=MW1I02] Battle Fury[/mwcard] attacks, unlike Melee +1. It also increases your effect die roll by one. Flame -4 and tough -4 together can reduce a fire attacks effect die from 1 to -7, but attacks always roll at least one attack die.

3 & 9) Demonic Reward & [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ02] Bloodfire Helmet[/mwcard]: If your demon has multiple attacks with one action(eg. [mwcard=MW1I02] Battle Fury[/mwcard]), and it applies a burn marker before the last attack against an object, the later attack against that creature gains the bonus.

4) [mwcard=MW1I07] Dissolve[/mwcard] and [mwcard=MW1E29] Nullify[/mwcard]: If a dissolve is nullified, you have to pay the 2 mana from [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ05] Harshforge Plate[/mwcard], but not the 2 mana from the object having a rune nor the 4 mana from [mwcard=MWSTX1CKE01] Armor Ward[/mwcard]

5) Runes & Power Rune: Each rune specific requirements to be placed on an equipment, so read those before trying to put armour +1 on a ring of command or something. Power Rune cannot be placed on equipment which alters the cost of spells(Discount rings, [mwcard=FWQ06] Horn of Gothos[/mwcard]). The equipment must have a spell action on it. The Power Rune still gives a discount when you use a spell action to change the bound spell to spellbind equipment.

6) Battle Orders and [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC07] Gurmash[/mwcard]: Your warlord and Gurmash may both cast one Battle Order in the same round. You may stack the same order twice on the same creature, just like a [mwcard=FWI06] Power Strike[/mwcard]. Ex. [mwcard=FWC06] Goblin Slinger[/mwcard] can receive "Take Aim" twice to gain piercing+4 for his ranged attack.

7) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFI02] Conquer[/mwcard] and Walls: You cannot target walls with the spell "Conquer". You can cast a Wall with your free action from the "Conquer" spell.

7.1) By conquering and recasting an epic conjuration of which you already have a copy in your spellbook, you may end up having two copies of that Epic conjuration in play, but not two copies of a unique or legendary conjuration. Ex. two [mwcard=FWJ03] Barracks[/mwcard] spells controlled by one mage is ok, but not two [mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ04] Armories[/mwcard].

8) [mwcard=FWC04] Goblin Builder[/mwcard] and [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC09] Otto Kronig[/mwcard]: The goblin builder cannot repair walls. Otto has the same language, but includes a bracketed section stating he can target walls. There is plenty of goblin builder walls discussion elsewhere.

10) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC10] Sardonyx[/mwcard]: You do not take two damage. You lose two MAX LIFE. Same situation as when you make a Bloodreaper. I only say this here because so many people get it wrong (including myself once upon a time).

11) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFE01] Adramelech's Touch[/mwcard]: You do not have the opportunity to reveal this enchantment between the moments when your opponent rolls his burn dice and removes burn conditions that rolled a zero.

12) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFE06] Lion Savagery[/mwcard] and Charge: You gain the Charge bonus if you move out of a zone, move into that zone, and attack over one creature's turn. Good examples are [mwcard=MW1C37] Thunderift Falcon[/mwcard], [mwcard=MW1C07] Cervere[/mwcard], and an elusive lady beastmaster.  Charge bonus does not apply to teleport movement([mwcard=MW1C05] Blue Gremlin[/mwcard]).

13) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02] Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]: You can reveal this after the roll you'd like to reroll. It cannot be used to reroll an enemy defense. With this card and [mwcard=MW1J09] Temple of the Dawnbreaker[/mwcard], players choose in order of initative whether to reroll.

14) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFI03] Disarm[/mwcard] & Disable: Disable on equipment removes every single thing which effects your mage(attack bars, armor, flame -2, unmoveable, ect) but maintains things that effect the spell itself(unique, cantrip, ect).

15) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC11] Sersiryx, Imp Familiar[/mwcard] can cast [mwcard=MWSTX2FFA01] Devil's Trident[/mwcard]


16) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ04] General's Signet Ring[/mwcard]: If you deploy a discount ring on yourself, during that same deployment, you can immediately use the ring to discount something else being deployed. You can still discount a [mwcard=FWJ03] Barracks[/mwcard]creature if your mage didn't have to contribute mana.

17) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ05] Harshforge Plate[/mwcard]: you pay the extra 2 mana when you cast the enchantment and not when you reveal it. also see "4)".

18) Unstoppable and [mwcard=MW1J22] Tanglevine[/mwcard], [mwcard=DNJ10] Stranglevine[/mwcard], [mwcard=FWJ07] Quicksand[/mwcard]:  EDIT :march2015: These cannot target an uncontainable creature.

19) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC13] Wildfire Imp[/mwcard]: Unlike other teleporting creatures, the teleport requires line of sight to the zone(but not line of sight to the burn marker) and has no range limitation. Burn markers on walls can't be used for this teleport.

20) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ01] Adramelech's Torment[/mwcard]: [mwcard=FWQ09] Sectarus[/mwcard] counts as an attached curse, so you can give yourself a burn marker.

21) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFI06] Defend[/mwcard]: does not count as a guard action, so [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06] Guardian Angel[/mwcard] does not get healed

22) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFI01]Combustion[/mwcard]: Cannot be intercepted.
----------------
I'm adding a oldschool Warlock and Warlord section for the old cards which are getting misused now that ppl are trying warlock and warlord again. I'll just add them when I see them in reviews and talks n such, so dont expect much breadth here.
a) The curse sword can't kill something AND add a curse to it(ie rise again)
b) You can stack copies of the same incantation on a creature such as power strike
c) Walls: cannot be affected by anything which only targets a zone, including imp teleport, goblin builder repair, conquer, zone attacks, ect.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Kharhaz on June 07, 2014, 03:33:16 AM

1) Fireweaving: Can the lady Warlock move burn markers(such as off of herself) onto fire-immune or burn-proof creatures, thus negating those burn markers? You can choose which order "Adramelech's Torment" and Fireweaving take place I believe.

2)Flame +1 applies to every attack, including doublestrike and "Battle Fury" attacks, unlike Melee +1. It also increases your effect die roll by one.

3) Demonic Reward: My understanding is this: If your demon damages an enemy creature which already had a burn marker at the start of your attack, your demon heals one. Do you heal one if the creature didnt start with a burn marker, but gains one during your attack?
(For a month I kept reading it wrong and thought it meant "If your attack causes a burn marker to be placed on that creature, you heal one damage" )

4) Dissolve and nullify: If a dissolve is nullified, you have to pay the 2 mana from "Harshforge Plate", but not the 2 mana from the object having a rune nor the 4 mana from "Armor Ward"

5) Power Rune: It cannot be placed on equipment which alters the cost of spells(Discount rings, Horn of Gothos). The equipment must have a spell action on it. The "Power Rune" still gives a discount when you use a spell action to change the bound spell to spellbind equipment.

6)Battle Orders and Gurmash, Orc Sergeant: Your warlord and Gurmash may both cast one Battle Order in the same round, but you may not stack the same order twice on the same creature? Ex. Goblin Slinger cannot receive "Take Aim" twice to gain piercing+4 for his ranged attack.

7) Conquer: Can you target walls with the spell "Conquer"? If yes, are their any additional limitations? Can you cast a Wall with your free action of the "Conquer" spell?

7.1)By conquering and recasting an epic conjuration of which you already have a copy in your spellbook, you may end up having two copies of that Epic conjuration in play. Ex. two Barracks spells controlled by one mage. This does not apply to Unique spells, since you cannot cast one, if you control another copy of it.

8)Goblin Builder and Otto Kronig: can the goblin builder still not repair a wall bordering his zone? Otto has the same language, but includes a bracketed section stating he can target walls. Is goblin builder result an overlooked technicality(meaning I should let him repair walls in my personal games), or is it intentional. Link to previous thread: http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13322.0

9)Bloodfire Helmet: If your demon has multiple attacks with one action(eg. Battle Fury), and it applies a burn marker before the last attack against an object, the later attack against that creature gains the +1 melee from this helmet. The same ruling applies to Demonic Reward's healing from damaging a burning creature I presume.

10)Sardonyx: You do not take two damage. You lose two MAX LIFE. Same situation as when you make a Bloodreaper. I only say this here because so many people get it wrong (including myself once upon a time).

11) Adramelech's Touch: You do not have the opportunity to reveal this enchantment between the moments when your opponent rolls his burn dice and removes burn conditions that rolled a zero.

12)Lion Savagery and Charge: You gain the Charge bonus if you move out of a zone, move into that zone, and attack over one creature's turn.

I can knock a few of these off:

1) She cannot move a burn condition to an object with burnproof. However, you can move it to a flame immune creature. As immunity only prevents targeting from spells and attack and the burn condition is a flame condition so the damage is prevented.

2) Correct

3) The burn condition must be present when the attack is declared and damage is dealt.

4) Correct

5) Will have to check the fine print on the ATW

6) Correct

7 & 7.1) Conquer can not be used on walls. They are not in any zone and a soldier cannot control the area between zones. It is perfectly legal to have two Epic conjurations under your control at one time. Epic is a spellbook limitation only. P.S. Two construction yards is a lot of fun.


8)As far as i know there was no update to the Goblin Builder's ability wording.

9) Correct. Melee +x applies to the first attack that creature can make with that bonus, as per the melee trait codex.

10) Correct. It is 2 off the top

11) Correct

12) "zig - zag" is all good and does grant the bonus. Does require elusive and fast if an enemy, non pest, creature is in the same zone prior to the "zig-zag"

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: jacksmack on June 07, 2014, 05:28:21 AM
why is 6 correct?

Just because you cant take "more" aim?
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Shad0w on June 07, 2014, 03:44:58 PM
why is 6 correct?

Just because you cant take "more" aim?

It is not

Warlord ability card states the Warlord may cast each battle orders choice once per round and only one choice may be made.

Gurmash can cast battle orders from his controlling Warlord. Gurmsah does not have that (ie. each battle orders choice once per round and only once may be made) restriction so it may cast the same order in the same round.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: echephron on June 07, 2014, 05:45:34 PM
Shadow just confused me, so I'll lay out the whole idea with battle orders:
a)Can a soldier be affected by two instances of the same battle order at the same time (the example was two instances of "Take Aim!" affecting the same creature)? I would have guessed the answer is NO since it is similar to casting two "Power Strike" command incantations on the same creature(last I checked, you can't stack duplicates of something on a creature including incantations, enchantments, equipment, ect).

If a is no, then b)Can a soldier be affected by two instances of different battle order at the same time? We all would say YES.


Shadow said YES Battle Orders can be cast more than once per round via exploiting Gurmash.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Kharhaz on June 07, 2014, 06:39:34 PM
Shadow just confused me, so I'll lay out the whole idea with battle orders:
a)Can a soldier be affected by two instances of the same battle order at the same time (the example was two instances of "Take Aim!" affecting the same creature)? I would have guessed the answer is NO since it is similar to casting two "Power Strike" command incantations on the same creature(last I checked, you can't stack duplicates of something on a creature including incantations, enchantments, equipment, ect).

You can stack multiple effects on the same target depending on the source. A creature can be under the effect from two Rajan's Fury or, before it was changed to unique, two hands of bim. You can even double up on the power strikes as well. You are allowed to stack unless it is stated that you cannot like with enchantments and equipment.

10 out of 11 should still be worth a bushel of banana stickers though :P
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: sIKE on June 07, 2014, 09:09:24 PM
Look at the old Battle Fury vs. the errata version. The last sentence was added with the errata: Only one Battle Fury spell may be cast be cast per round on the same creature. You could have your mage QC BF and a Thoughtspore cast one on to your Forcemaster or Steelclaw Grizzly and be it would stack so hi that they "had to" errata it....... 
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Shad0w on June 08, 2014, 02:14:51 AM
Shadow just confused me, so I'll lay out the whole idea with battle orders:
a)Can a soldier be affected by two instances of the same battle order at the same time (the example was two instances of "Take Aim!" affecting the same creature)? I would have guessed the answer is NO since it is similar to casting two "Power Strike" command incantations on the same creature(last I checked, you can't stack duplicates of something on a creature including incantations, enchantments, equipment, ect).

You can stack multiple effects on the same target depending on the source. A creature can be under the effect from two Rajan's Fury or, before it was changed to unique, two hands of bim. You can even double up on the power strikes as well. You are allowed to stack unless it is stated that you cannot like with enchantments and equipment.

10 out of 11 should still be worth a bushel of banana stickers though :P

I will get you one since you answered both the OP and this.  8)
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: klaymen on June 08, 2014, 11:42:53 AM
This is maybe a more general question, but revealing Brace Yourself (0 reveal cost) while having Ring of Command equipped does have no effect, right?
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: sIKE on June 08, 2014, 01:05:17 PM
Correct.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Wildhorn on June 09, 2014, 08:49:25 AM
Just sementic about #1, there is no such thing as Fire Immune. It is Flame Immunity.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: echephron on June 09, 2014, 08:03:12 PM
13)Akiro's Favor: Can I reveal this after I make the roll which I'd like to reroll? I'm guessing no. The reroll effect happens at the end of the roll dice step and makes you redo the roll dice step?  With this card and temple of the dawnbreaker, I'm guessing people choose at the end of any roll dice step whether to reroll in order of initiative.

14)Disarm: What exactly does disarm not effect? I believe it only prevents "active-y things" like attacks and action bars. so armor, flame-2 ect are not effected.

sidenote: I liked the old flavor text more on Hurl Rock.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: ACG on June 09, 2014, 08:11:37 PM
14)Disarm: What exactly does disarm not effect? I believe it only prevents "active-y things" like attacks and action bars. so armor, flame-2 ect are not effected.

"Disabled objects lose all attack bars, action bars, and non-trait abilities."

Armor and Flame -2 would be affected. The equipment does not have those traits itself; it provides them to the mage as part of the text. Things not affected would be traits like Cantrip, Epic, Unique, Spellbind, etc.

Equipment objects tend not to have many functional traits, so for most equipment, everything will be disabled.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Kharhaz on June 09, 2014, 09:15:21 PM
This is a handy bit of info when looking at disarm does:


Quote from: WHAT IS A TRAIT? sidebar, p. 7
What is a trait?
Spells, creatures, objects, and attacks may all have a number of special abilities called traits, printed on their card. These traits may allow you to act in ways not normally allowed, such as moving farther during an action phase.

Traits are listed at the bottom of a spell card or inside the attack bar. Some spells and abilities may also add traits to an object. For example, you might cast an enchantment to give a creature the Fast trait.

Many traits are followed by a value. For example, the Highland Unicorn has the Regenerate 2 trait. This number shows the strength of the trait. Regenerate 2 means that the Unicorn will heal 2 damage every Upkeep Phase.

Sometimes, this strength value has a plus or minus sign. Multiple traits of the same kind with plus or minus signs can be combined on the same object. So, if a creature with Lightning +1 is enchanted with a spell that gives Lightning -2, those two traits combine and the creature now has Lightning -1.

If a trait does not have a plus or minus sign, it does not combine with other traits that have the same name. Only the trait with the highest value counts. If the same unicorn was enchanted with a spell that gave it Regenerate 3, it would only heal 3 damage every round, not 5.

In these rules, and on the spell cards, traits are always capitalized. See the Codex at the end of this rulebook for a list of all trait effects.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: echephron on June 09, 2014, 10:05:50 PM
I now think of traits on equipment as something that they give to the mage, especially if it has a number. I'm guessing there aren't many non-trait words(unique/legendary/epic, cantrip, ?)
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: jacksmack on June 10, 2014, 01:38:29 AM
13)Akiro's Favor: Can I reveal this after I make the roll which I'd like to reroll? I'm guessing no. The reroll effect happens at the end of the roll dice step and makes you redo the roll dice step?  With this card and temple of the dawnbreaker, I'm guessing people choose at the end of any roll dice step whether to reroll in order of initiative.

Im curious about this as well.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Shad0w on June 10, 2014, 03:49:47 PM
At the convention center WiFi is only so so can you get me wording on please :-[ :P




Stupid auto correct
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: sIKE on June 10, 2014, 04:39:14 PM
Since the card has no additional requirements (like Mind Control) you would follow normal Enchantment reveal rules.  So, I think that this would be legal as long as you have not applied damage to the creature in question from the dice roll.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Lord0fWinter on June 10, 2014, 04:47:13 PM
13)Akiro's Favor: Can I reveal this after I make the roll which I'd like to reroll? I'm guessing no. The reroll effect happens at the end of the roll dice step and makes you redo the roll dice step?  With this card and temple of the dawnbreaker, I'm guessing people choose at the end of any roll dice step whether to reroll in order of initiative.

Im curious about this as well.

The rulebook states you can reveal an enchantment "At the end of any of the eight steps of an attack or three steps of casting a spell."

So I would think you can reveal it after step 3, which is the roll dice step, and before you apply the damage/effects, which is in step 4.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: echephron on June 11, 2014, 12:31:35 AM
13)Akiro's Favor
I agree Lord0fWinter that you can reveal it just after the roll dice step, but my guess is that you cant reroll dice outside of the roll dice step, so revealing just after the roll dice step is too late. The problem is that I dont know 100% where is the steps that rerolling happens. I hear a new rules and codex supplement in enroute for next week.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: sIKE on June 11, 2014, 12:45:20 AM
13)Akiro's Favor
I agree Lord0fWinter that you can reveal it just after the roll dice step, but m guess is that you cant reroll dice outside of the roll dice step, so revealing just after the roll dice step is too late. The problem is that I dont know 100% where is the steps that rerolling happens. I hear a new rules and codex supplement in enroute for next week.
Not to be a smart-aleck but it would still be in step 3, after you have applied damage and effects you would not be able to change the outcome. The Temple has worked this way since release, I see no reason why Akiro's Favor would be any different, other than it being an Enchantment. The main difference of course is it being revealed after the dice roll of step 3. I think this is what causes the most head scratching, with an Enchantment it is possible to reveal it after one thing happens (the dice roll) and before the step that typically follows it happens (apply damage/effects) thereby interrupting (re-rolling dice) what would flow normally.

I could be wrong though.....
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: jacksmack on June 11, 2014, 04:12:11 AM
Im pretty sure its not possible.

Assuming Akiro's favor is face down:
By the time you realize you rolled bad and wish to re-roll you will not be able to reveal this card before the dice roll step is over - The first chance to reveal would be between the dice roll step and apply damage step.


Which is sad for Akiro. Not so much because of the 1 mana you have to reveal, but more because of the facedown enchantment is now revealed to your opponent.

Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Kharhaz on June 11, 2014, 07:07:20 AM
At the convention center WiFi is only so so can you get me e wordind on favor please :-[ :P

Akiro's Favor:

" Once per round, if this creature makes a melee or ranged attack, you may re-roll all of the attack dice, or the effect dice, for that attack. Or, if the attack has to roll to hit (such as with a Daze condition), you may re-roll that die roll instead. Use a ready marker to keep track of this ability."

I think this is what causes the most head scratching, with an Enchantment it is possible to reveal it after one thing happens (the dice roll) and before the step that typically follows it happens (apply damage/effects) thereby interrupting (re-rolling dice) what would flow normally.

I could be wrong though.....

Yes you can reveal between the dice roll and apply damage/effects. That is usually where you use healing charm to snatch victory from the opponents grasp. ;) More specifically: "At the end of any of the eight steps of an attack or three steps of casting a spell."

So in order to use Akiro's Favor the enchanted creature has to make an attack or make a roll to hit. All eight of the steps are "making an attack" so anytime during this action qualifies for the first and second ability.


By the time you realize you rolled bad and wish to re-roll you will not be able to reveal this card before the dice roll step is over - The first chance to reveal would be between the dice roll step and apply damage step.


What happens here is you reveal Akiro's Favor between step 3 and step 4. That allows you to re-roll either the attack or effect dice, but before they are calculated in step 4. The only thing that is required to use Akiro's Favor is that the creature makes an attack, which it is doing.

If it said, " Once per round, if this creature declares a melee or ranged attack........" then you could not reveal after the roll and still use the ability.

Furthermore, "if this creatures makes a melee attack or ranged attack...." applies if the creature only makes one attack that round as well. It does not need to complete the attack action to "activate" Akiro's Favor.

So the simple version is that yes you can reveal after the attack roll, but before damage and effect is applied to the target.

Lets hope that makes sense without the morning coffee.......
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: jacksmack on June 11, 2014, 08:11:03 AM
It does not make sense. Is this the official ruling?


Basicly what your saying is:

Attack Order:

1: Declare Attack

- option to reveal enchantments -

2: Avoid Attack

- option to reveal enchantments -

3: Roll dice

- Revealing Akiro -

3: Repeat step 3: Roll dice

- option to reveal enchantments -

4: Damage and Effects


No where in the rules does it say that a step in the attack order or spell casting order can be repeated once its finished. If what your saying is correct, then this has to be added to the FAQ.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Kharhaz on June 11, 2014, 08:22:24 AM
It does not make sense. Is this the official ruling?


Basicly what your saying is:

Attack Order:

1: Declare Attack

- option to reveal enchantments -

2: Avoid Attack

- option to reveal enchantments -

3: Roll dice

- Revealing Akiro -

3: Repeat step 3: Roll dice

- option to reveal enchantments -

4: Damage and Effects

- option to reveal enchantments -


What happens is that you never "repeat step 3"

Step 3 does not end because you re roll the attack in step 3 before you ever get to step 4. Once step 4 begins you can not go back and re roll.

So it looks like this:

Step 3
- Roll
- Reveal Akiro's Favor
- Activate Akiro's Favor
- Re roll

Step 4
-
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: jacksmack on June 11, 2014, 08:27:48 AM
your not allowed to reveal the enchantment during step 3.


At the end of any of the eight steps of an attack or
three steps of casting a spell.
Example: After the Avoid Attack Step of an attack,
you could reveal the Rhino Hide enchantment on
your creature to reduce the amount of damage it
will take from that attack
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: lettucemode on June 11, 2014, 08:40:46 AM
jacksmack is right, you can't reveal during an event. Either Akiro's Favor lets you repeat step 3, which is awkward, or the latest you can reveal it to get its effects is after step 2.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: sIKE on June 11, 2014, 09:12:40 AM
Here hope this helps:

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=5986.msg5992#msg5992 (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=5986.msg5992#msg5992)

I knew I had read this ruling somewhere else before.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Kharhaz on June 11, 2014, 10:08:08 AM
jacksmack is right, you can't reveal during an event. Either Akiro's Favor lets you repeat step 3, which is awkward, or the latest you can reveal it to get its effects is after step 2.

You are not repeating step 3.

you make an attack roll.

At the end of step 3 you reveal Akiro's Favor (just like the Rhino Hide example)

Akiro's Favor goes into effect immediately (still before step 4)

You can then activate that ability and re-roll the attack. It is not repeating step 3, you are simply re-rolling either the attack roll or effect roll.

Example that better illustrates the Akiro's Favor example.

Sir Corazin (with a hidden Akiro's Favor) uses his quick melee attack against a Timber Wolf (with a hidden Rhino Hide and Bull Endurance)

Sir Corazin rolls 4 dice and gets blank - 1 normal - 1 normal - 2 normal

Before that damage is applied in step 4 the Timber Wolf reveals Rhino Hide.

Still before step 4 Sir Corazin Reveals Akiro's favor, and re-rolls his attack and now has - blank - 2 critcal - 1 critical - blank

Still before step 4, Timber wolf decides to reveal Bull Endurance.

Damage applies as per normal in step 4
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: jacksmack on June 11, 2014, 12:54:39 PM
So what your saying is... Akiro's favor allows you to re-roll attack dice outside of the attack step?

I guess that makes sense, like you can roll dice for healing between steps with healing charm.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: echephron on June 17, 2014, 02:08:02 PM
I updated the OP and included a couple more points on the end. Akiros Favour is still in dispute, but we should be getting a rules supplement thingie this week from the makers.

We need a statement from the higher ups saying that a reroll happens during the step in which the original roll happened. Or if a reroll happens in its own little pocket outside of the attack steps, we need to know when that pocket happens.

Here is the Akro's Favor card text:
"Once per round, if this creature makes a melee or ranged attack, you may re-roll all of the attack dice OR the effect die, for that attack. Or, if the attack has to roll to hit (such as with a Daze condition), you may re-roll that die roll INSTEAD. Use a ready marker to keep track of this ability"

(http://magewars.weebly.com/uploads/2/1/7/6/21761652/5462763_orig.jpg)

Here is how I would have worded the card to simplify and avoid the confusion:
"Once per round when this creature is making an attack you may re-roll one of the following: the damage dice, the effect die, or a roll to miss such as from daze."

My text is shorter (so we can get some flavor text up in here), clearer, and more grammatically correct(such as by not starting a sentence with "Or" or over-relying on bracketed statements. I felt even worse about stranglevines wording.

does AFavor work against enemy defenses? i'll add that to the list.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: jacksmack on June 17, 2014, 03:56:04 PM
The card has nothing to do with the dice roll step as such. Yes you are rolling dice, but you also do that with a lot of other spells such as mana drain and healing charm. Both examples just tells you to roll dice when you reveal (charm) or cast (mana drain).
Just like Akiros favor gives you the option to reroll dice when spending its ready marker.

With this card you could in theory reveal the card between step 4 (apply damage and effects) and 5 (multiple strikes) reroll after damage is applied.
But it would make no sense because it wouldn't change anything as damage and effects step is already over.

- this took me a while to get straight.



The card has nothing to do with the enemy using a defense.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Shad0w on June 17, 2014, 05:03:11 PM
Akro's Favor

Can be used to reroll as long as the damage was not already been applied.

This applies to roll to hit effects like Helm of fear and daze. It also applies to effect and damage rolls.

It does not apply to defense rolls
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: echephron on July 06, 2014, 03:41:18 PM
new question:
16) Can you discount a barracks creature if the barracks can pay all the mana for the creature?

I stole 20) from a post, so I'll update it once I know the answer. its probably true.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Shad0w on July 06, 2014, 09:15:47 PM
new question:
16) Can you discount a barracks creature if the barracks can pay all the mana for the creature?

I stole 20) from a post, so I'll update it once I know the answer. its probably true.
It depends on the discount source. If it requires the mage to cast the creature then no.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: sdougla2 on July 07, 2014, 11:12:15 PM
General's Signet Ring gives the discount when you or a Spawnpoint you control casts a soldier spell, so yes, you can get the discount even if the Barracks is casting the soldier entirely with it's own mana.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Shifthappens on July 11, 2014, 08:27:50 PM
Does a wildfire imp still has LoS to teleport to an obscured target? Technically, the obscured and burning creature is not targeted by the teleport, since i believe the zone is the target, yet with obscured its a lil bit confusing.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: ringkichard on July 12, 2014, 08:56:37 AM
You need LoS to the zone, since it's the zone that's targeted.

It doesn't matter if the creature is obscured by Cloak of Shadows; you could teleport to a Warlock with Cloak from across the board. However, if the destination zone is obscured with Rolling Fog, the Imp must be at range 1 or range 0 to Teleport.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Shad0w on July 12, 2014, 01:20:45 PM
Ring is correct.


If you ran a quick search before asking you would have found the answer in this thread. 8)

Wildfire Imp & Teleport  (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14275.0)
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: ACG on March 22, 2015, 07:12:07 PM
15) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC11] Sersiryx, Imp Familiar[/mwcard] can cast [mwcard=MWSTX2FFA01] Devil's Trident[/mwcard] because...reasons in another thread to be worked out?

Here's why:

Spells are only separated into spell-levels when spellbook building. In the actual game, spells and levels are separate.

In the actual game, a spell is not "Level 1 Fire, Level 1 Dark". It is level 2, and counts as both a Fire spell and a Dark spell (in much the same way that a Bitterwood Fox counts as both a Canine spell and an Animal spell)

So [mwcard=MWSTX2FFA01]Devil's Trident[/mwcard] satisfies all three conditions to be legal for casting by [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC11]Sersiryx, Imp Familiar[/mwcard].

1. It is a Level 2 spell
2. It is a Fire spell
3. It is an attack spell


Unstoppable and Tanglevine, Stranglevine, Quicksand: These cards can still target creatures with this trait, but are destroyed when the creature moves to a new zone?

An unstoppable creature automatically gains the Uncontainable and Unmovable traits, and so is an illegal target for Tanglevine and Stranglevine (because it is Uncontainable).

But [mwcard=FWJ07]Quicksand[/mwcard]...well, it gets a little weird, based on a literal interpretation of the rules.

Quote from: MW Rulebook and Codex pp.16
A few conjurations target an object instead. These spells are attached to the target object and move with it if it is moved.
(emphasis mine)

But unlike Tangle/Stranglevine, there is nothing in Quicksand that prohibits casting it on an Uncontainable corporeal creature (such as Sardonyx, Talos, or even Devouring Jelly)

Which means (and I would like to stress that there is no rules ambiguity on this point whatsoever) if you cast Quicksand on one of these creatures, it will follow it wherever it goes.

Seems worthy of an official clarification, not to mention a change to the wording of Quicksand for future releases.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on March 23, 2015, 07:14:03 AM

15) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC11] Sersiryx, Imp Familiar[/mwcard] can cast [mwcard=MWSTX2FFA01] Devil's Trident[/mwcard] because...reasons in another thread to be worked out?

Here's why:

Spells are only separated into spell-levels when spellbook building. In the actual game, spells and levels are separate.

In the actual game, a spell is not "Level 1 Fire, Level 1 Dark". It is level 2, and counts as both a Fire spell and a Dark spell (in much the same way that a Bitterwood Fox counts as both a Canine spell and an Animal spell)

So [mwcard=MWSTX2FFA01]Devil's Trident[/mwcard] satisfies all three conditions to be legal for casting by [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC11]Sersiryx, Imp Familiar[/mwcard].

1. It is a Level 2 spell
2. It is a Fire spell
3. It is an attack spell


Unstoppable and Tanglevine, Stranglevine, Quicksand: These cards can still target creatures with this trait, but are destroyed when the creature moves to a new zone?

An unstoppable creature automatically gains the Uncontainable and Unmovable traits, and so is an illegal target for Tanglevine and Stranglevine (because it is Uncontainable).

But [mwcard=FWJ07]Quicksand[/mwcard]...well, it gets a little weird, based on a literal interpretation of the rules.

Quote from: MW Rulebook and Codex pp.16
A few conjurations target an object instead. These spells are attached to the target object and move with it if it is moved.
(emphasis mine)

But unlike Tangle/Stranglevine, there is nothing in Quicksand that prohibits casting it on an Uncontainable corporeal creature (such as Sardonyx, Talos, or even Devouring Jelly)

Which means (and I would like to stress that there is no rules ambiguity on this point whatsoever) if you cast Quicksand on one of these creatures, it will follow it wherever it goes.

Seems worthy of an official clarification, not to mention a change to the wording of Quicksand for future releases.

Even if it's teleported?
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: ACG on March 23, 2015, 07:18:23 AM
Even if it's teleported?

No. If a creature is teleported, all attached conjurations are destroyed. But if it moves or is moved (non-teleport), all attached conjurations move with it.

This hasn't come up yet because all such conjurations so far restrain creatures and make them unmovable anyway. But in the case of quicksand, some of the legal targets cannot be restrained.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Kharhaz on March 23, 2015, 07:21:14 AM

15) [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC11] Sersiryx, Imp Familiar[/mwcard] can cast [mwcard=MWSTX2FFA01] Devil's Trident[/mwcard] because...reasons in another thread to be worked out?

Here's why:

Spells are only separated into spell-levels when spellbook building. In the actual game, spells and levels are separate.

In the actual game, a spell is not "Level 1 Fire, Level 1 Dark". It is level 2, and counts as both a Fire spell and a Dark spell (in much the same way that a Bitterwood Fox counts as both a Canine spell and an Animal spell)

So [mwcard=MWSTX2FFA01]Devil's Trident[/mwcard] satisfies all three conditions to be legal for casting by [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC11]Sersiryx, Imp Familiar[/mwcard].

1. It is a Level 2 spell
2. It is a Fire spell
3. It is an attack spell


Unstoppable and Tanglevine, Stranglevine, Quicksand: These cards can still target creatures with this trait, but are destroyed when the creature moves to a new zone?

An unstoppable creature automatically gains the Uncontainable and Unmovable traits, and so is an illegal target for Tanglevine and Stranglevine (because it is Uncontainable).

But [mwcard=FWJ07]Quicksand[/mwcard]...well, it gets a little weird, based on a literal interpretation of the rules.

Quote from: MW Rulebook and Codex pp.16
A few conjurations target an object instead. These spells are attached to the target object and move with it if it is moved.
(emphasis mine)

But unlike Tangle/Stranglevine, there is nothing in Quicksand that prohibits casting it on an Uncontainable corporeal creature (such as Sardonyx, Talos, or even Devouring Jelly)

Which means (and I would like to stress that there is no rules ambiguity on this point whatsoever) if you cast Quicksand on one of these creatures, it will follow it wherever it goes.

Seems worthy of an official clarification, not to mention a change to the wording of Quicksand for future releases.

Even if it's teleported?

When a creature is teleported all attached conjurations do not go with it and are destroyed. That is in the "fine print" of teleport.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: Laddinfance on March 23, 2015, 09:15:04 AM
Quicksand cannot target an uncontainable creature. If this was not already part of another ruling, I'm sorry. I'm actually working on several updates to the Rules and Codex supplement. I'm hoping to have that soon. If you have any other questions please let me know.
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: iNano78 on March 23, 2015, 10:35:38 AM
Quicksand cannot target an uncontainable creature. If this was not already part of another ruling, I'm sorry. I'm actually working on several updates to the Rules and Codex supplement. I'm hoping to have that soon. If you have any other questions please let me know.

Thank you.  My thematic explanation for how Sardonyx dragged Quicksand around from zone to zone, only to be enveloped by it several zones from where he first became attached to it (e.g. "stepped in it?"), required some pretty significant suspension of disbelief.  ;D
Title: Re: Forged in Fire expansion big list of questions
Post by: echephron on March 23, 2015, 12:08:31 PM
It's Alive!!!   (the thread)