Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fentum on June 10, 2013, 09:36:33 AM
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I have taught a couple of guys how to play Mage Wars now. Each is pretty smart, with a keen interest in odds, tactics and so on. The biggest hurdle to understanding the flow of the game has been confusion over the Quick Cast phase. They struggle to get the timing of Quick Cast and in particular they get confused by Quick Cast vs Quick Spell vs Quick Action. I can spell it out (no pun intended) and they nod. I can ask them to repeat the sequence out loud, and they do. Then they get confused again.
They pretty much get the Full Action vs Quick Action idea. They even get the Quick Spell idea.
One key issue is all the 'Quick' stuff.
Here's an idea...
Change 'Quick Cast' to 'Fast Cast'
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Wow...
I must confirm! It is much easier tu understand this mechanic really quick and fast :)
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:o
I just state that the Quick cast maker is for casting only. It may used during the Quick cast phase. It may also be use before or after a friendly action. I then show them examples of this.
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I have to agree with Fentum. The source of the confusion is just in the similarity of terminology it's a still a little vexing at times when talking about the game because people don't always listen closely.
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Glad to know this wasn't just me! I had difficulty with the action system at first. It is true that they could explain how actions work more clearly. It can be easy to confuse the terms "quick cast," "quick action," and "quick spell" when you are starting out. I wish they had come up with different terms. But I think once you make the distinction between those 3 terms clear it makes perfect sense.
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Glad to know this wasn't just me! I had difficulty with the action system at first. It is true that they could explain how actions work more clearly. It can be easy to confuse the terms "quick cast," "quick action," and "quick spell" when you are starting out. I wish they had come up with different terms. But I think once you make the distinction between those 3 terms clear it makes perfect sense.
Agreed, MrvSaucy. Why not make it easier by changing to Fast Cast? Nice bit of alliteration too.
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Because you cast Quick Spells not Fast Spells with the Quick cast marker. :o
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Because you cast Quick Spells not Fast Spells with the Quick cast marker. :o
Hi Shadow,
Thanks for the input on this one. I agree that in one way, it seems obvious to call it a Quick Cast as it allows the Casting of Quick Spells. However, it's possible to cast quick spells at other times too. In my own experience, it would have helped to separate out the clearly different 'Quick Cast' event from the normal turn flow by simply calling it something different.
Reading a couple of replies on BGG, it seems as though a couple of players at least have used alternative terminology to describe Quick Cast in order to avoid confusion over multiple 'Quicks'. They used terms such as small spell, little spell, free spell, etc.
I'm just keen to get as many people as possible playing this game, so anything that makes it easier is a good thing in my book.
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I work at a Software company and teaching terminology is one of the most important aspects of teaching our customers about our product. The terminology is very specific and very much tied to our product (as one would expect), every couple of years someone (new) typically comes along with a better idea of how to explain the product with slightly different terminology. Many times in the short term the wording is easier to pickup but it does not mesh holistically.
I completely agree that QuickCast Action vs. Quick Spell vs. Quick Action vs. First/Final QuickCast Phases is on the complex side of things and it probably add a good amount to the angle of the learning curve. But the terminology is precise and layered as result of the interactions and once learned make for simplicity in the rules and mnemonics of the rules.
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Here's an idea...
Change 'Quick Cast' to 'Fast Cast'
It's hilarious because it's true
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I always have a problem when teaching the game to a new player with this. They understand everything but keep getting quick cast, quick spell and quick action confused with one another. I have stopped with quick action and have been calling it half a action. That seems to help a lot when it came to me teaching, or switching something out for quick cast.
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Half action is a little confusing since you can only use spell and not other action, but even than I see how it makes easyer to understand, my friends had a hard time in the first 1-2 games aswell.
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I work at a Software company and teaching terminology is one of the most important aspects of teaching our customers about our product. The terminology is very specific and very much tied to our product (as one would expect), every couple of years someone (new) typically comes along with a better idea of how to explain the product with slightly different terminology. Many times in the short term the wording is easier to pickup but it does not mesh holistically.
I completely agree that QuickCast Action vs. Quick Spell vs. Quick Action vs. First/Final QuickCast Phases is on the complex side of things and it probably add a good amount to the angle of the learning curve. But the terminology is precise and layered as result of the interactions and once learned make for simplicity in the rules and mnemonics of the rules.
I agree. MAGE Wars is a very complex game. You should not concede elegance of rules.
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Image file getting uploaded when i get home. (upload sites blocked @ work).
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Feel free to print out and laminate.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6695/quickcast.jpg
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Thanks for the chart, but that is not the source of confusion. It is a simple word similarity problem.
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Thanks for the chart, but that is not the source of confusion. It is a simple word similarity problem.
what is confusing? explain this chart so they know when they can use it. tell about the 2 symbols: quick cast and full cast. Job done.
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Wiz pig is right in terms of my OP. It is the multiple use of 'quick' that causes the key confusion. Not the actual sequence of play.
Ref jacksmack...Is that chart a joke? I genuinely ask that. No slur intended. It made me laugh to think of the complexity of that chart. I thought it might be a sarcasm from jack!
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2 complex 4 ya bro? 8)
ill consider making a new 1 4 ya.
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2 complex 4 ya bro? 8)
ill consider making a new 1 4 ya.
Thank you kindly my good fellow, though the flow is perfectly adequate. It is simply the term 'quick' that causes angst.
8)