Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: BlueByLiquid on May 25, 2013, 11:25:29 PM
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Hi guys,
Just got word from AW that I can't release my iPad spellbook builder. I initially created it for my own personal use but since it worked so well I wanted to release it as an app. I only mention it because I had spoken to some of you guys and I told you I was trying to get it released. I am sharing just to show you guys what I have working since you won't get to see it). Here are some of the features I added hopeing to release it. Don't hate on the design as all the artwork is placeholder which a professional artist and animator had started on replacing for me (see notes on this below).
1. Extremely fast to build a spellbook. One figer tap on a card adds one copy of the card to the to the deck. two fingers removes it. You can literally build the example spellbooks in under a minute. This is great for verifying someones spellbook in a very quick fashion to make sure they are not cheating (or simply that they can add an multiple properly)
2. Generates an alphanumberic code which will regenerate your spellbook inside of the app so you can easily share your book with someone. Also you can email it or post a link to twitter. This was my favorite as sharing spellbooks is Awesome but almost impossible currently as it would take forever.
3. Cards you can't add to your deck (Because of your selected Mage are faded out so you can still see them but your aren't distracted by them.
4. You can filter by everything on the card. Damage type, attribute, cost, benefit, (if it is on the card you can filter by it).
5. You can see detailed statistics showing how much each type of cards were costing you. (i.e Creatures, equipment, etc).
6. Each card displays the number included and the total cost.
7. You can just show your spellbook so you can quickly see your cards and remove any you don't want.
8. Resizable grid to any size and very fast vertical scrolling.
Stuff not shown in the screenshots and notes
- I had newer photos of work I had done but have lots motivation and for other reason (see next item) I can't release. as it will never see the light of day. That includes the filters shown are just the basic ones. I have a detailed sub menu showing these. Also this build it doesn't show the selected mage and uses a gesture to switch between them.
- I have a much better interface but was working with an artist and animator on a conditional release and cannot show his work since we were unable to get permission to release the app. It had some really neat effects and much better icons.
- It also runs on Android and Windows.
- I haven't shown the alphanumeric generator. I spent a lot of time on making sure the spellbooks could be generated in as few characters as possible so you could write it down without too much effort and I didn't want to give any of this away. I am sure someone could do it to just I thought I did some neat work in this area.
Notes: please note I really like mage wars and would like to have released this but I am in no way bitter or angry, (maybe a bit sad :) , I just wanted to show you guys what I have done because it is really great to use and really helps me develop better spellbooks on my iPad.
So here are a few images with my prototype artwork:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img46/2114/overviewc.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img10/3046/pointscalculation.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img266/3372/ordering.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img593/3171/size2.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img546/3236/spellbook.png)
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that's some nice work man, i would use it just for the photos of the cards.
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Looks amazing man... sure wish we had access to an app or online spellbook builder. :-\
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Oh man that is outstanding. A virtual spell book would be a major step forward. Very likely to increase player base. The only downside would be the loss of my spare time.
What is the issue with release?
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did they mention anything why you are not allowed to release it?
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Hunh, that doesn't bode well for me being able to share a printable pdf...
What did they say about why you couldn't release it? If you don't mind me asking.
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Hunh, that doesn't bode well for me being able to share a printable pdf...
Well I can't see why you'd think that a company would want you posting a printable PDF of their cards online. :-)
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Hunh, that doesn't bode well for me being able to share a printable pdf...
Well I can't see why you'd think that a company would want you posting a printable PDF of their cards online. :-)
Hi pixelgeek,
You write that, and I would normally agree, but there seems to be an abnormal level of altruism or at least support for good companies in the board game world. My experience would suggest that BGG'rs would always pay the price to support their favourite companies, and just use on line stuff to support play. We seem to have an honest and supportive community.
Heck, I'd be happy to just give AW some money, given the excellent game they have created... :)
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Hunh, that doesn't bode well for me being able to share a printable pdf...
Well I can't see why you'd think that a company would want you posting a printable PDF of their cards online. :-)
Sort of a like this http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/magewars/mage-wars-card-spoilers/_/core/ (http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/magewars/mage-wars-card-spoilers/_/core/), what kind of company would do that? My guess is these are not hi-res scans, but are still easily printable.
My guess is they have already licensed the rights to do this to someone else or they are already doing it in-house. Which hopefully means we will get to see something here soon. Just a swag at it though....
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point 1: it's not exactly economical to print and cut out cards yourself, in fact you would spend a lot more then the price of just buying them to get the same quality.
point 2: In order to be used for reference the cards don't have to be at full size. In the case of the pdf in question they are only about 2/3 the size of the actual cards.
point 3: Watermarking the cards wouldn't impair the useability of a reference.
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For the love of god... let the guy release this. Im still having sexy dreams about that app!!!
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I'm with jack
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I'm sure the inhouse solution will be awesome, but the community could use a fast and easy to use deckbuilder, that can even share decks. For now typing in your decks to the forum could be a chore. Was this deckbuilder intended as a paid app? Because than I would see the problem. Other than that I don't think it is denied in the defence of the cards since the base set is on cardgamedb, and you can find the FMvsWL scans online if you really want to. Bottom line, I can't wait for a good deckbuilder, be it the inhouse one, the extended cardgamedb one, or this beauty.
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For the love of god... let the guy release this. Im still having sexy dreams about that app!!!
:o
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For the love of god... let the guy release this. Im still having sexy dreams about that app!!!
Maybe I am in the minority but the screenshots he has shown look very rough. Its difficult to see how the app is meant to work, it doesn't look like an iOS app at all and the idea of having to save alphanumeric strings leaves me cold.
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Maybe I am in the minority but the screenshots he has shown look very rough. Its difficult to see how the app is meant to work, it doesn't look like an iOS app at all and the idea of having to save alphanumeric strings leaves me cold.
Not to insult and as you are the man I will tread lightly here. The alphanumeric string is as he describes, a way to share spellbooks. E-mail the string to a friend, bring it into the App (think about bump sharing with your Galaxy-S3/4) and you have a new built spell book. Total awesomeness!
I love the game, I love Arcane Wonders, but like it or not are very slow. If AW wants to build a online Card Reference and Spell Book Build, please do. But if it is going to take a year and you have a partner ready and willing....license it out for a year. AW is happy and the Community is happy. Same same with the IOS builder.
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The alphanumeric string is as he describes, a way to share spellbooks. E-mail the string to a friend, bring it into the App (think about bump sharing with your Galaxy-S3/4) and you have a new built spell book. Total awesomeness!
I suspect that there may be a cross-platform limitation with tool being used to develop it or maybe there is just no way to develop a simple way to email out a file from the app itself but any time you have to copy strings you provide room for error.
I love the game, I love Arcane Wonders, but like it or not are very slow.
I'm not sure what you are expecting from a company as small as Arcane Wonders but even someone the size of Privateer Press had to outsource development of a game tool for Warmachine.
If AW wants to build a online Card Reference and Spell Book Build, please do. But if it is going to take a year and you have a partner ready and willing....license it out for a year. AW is happy and the Community is happy. Same same with the IOS builder.
Licensing isn't as easy as you make it out to be.
I am sure that everyone is excited about the prospect of a cross-platform tool but I think that in this case everyone is getting more excited than warranted by a few screenshots.
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I think we (the players) need to appreciate the complexities of managing intellectual property of a CG like Mage Wars. The company needs to strike a perfect balance between allowing "fair use" and giving up their copyright.
Fortunately this is a small company so the number of IP lawyers is probably very low (which is a good thing) but also invites caution on arcane wonders side because mistakes are easily made. All in all the best strategy for AW is to _not_ sanction any fan made app or program as it opens the door to trouble.
So what is an avid fan to do with an idea for a utility?
Go ahead and "publish" it as a non-profit fan made tool and be prepared for a cease & desist notice if it get's out of hand or threatens the business model of AW.
Unfortunately for Ipad's you can't publish stuff under the radar, but that's an entirely different discussion.
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Check out the love for the Xia Kickstarter on the geek and on KS. Open source boardgaming. Boardgamers do it for the love.
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So what is an avid fan to do with an idea for a utility?
I don't think that anyone wants to squelch a fan's love of the game. The problem is that if a company lets one fan have free reign with IP then it opens the door for other people, and perhaps less scrupulous people, to do the same.
A small company like AW spends a disproportionate amount of time and money on items like art and they have to be protected quite rigorously.
Work is underway on getting an online tool ready but the size of the team and the amount of other tasks means that this project is not moving forward as fast as fans would like.
I am one of them so trust me, I want this done probably as much as anyone else. :-)
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Check out the love for the Xia Kickstarter on the geek and on KS. Open source boardgaming. Boardgamers do it for the love.
It isn't open source per se, they have licensed parts of the game under a Creative Commons license. Catalyst Game Labs did that for their Leviathans game as well.
The folks behind Xia have a lot less invested in terms of art than a game like Mage Wars since they haven't had to create 100s of pieces of art for individual cards.
For Xia the benefit is that they allow people to create their own expansions and help to build and expand the audience for the game.
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Wow, that does look cool! Pixelgeek is right though, there is far less investment in the art of this game, not only in terms of quantity of pieces but also in terms of quality. I'm not sure that a modable system would be at all effective for a competitive strategy game like Mage Wars, but it seems like a great opportunity for inovation in the realm of multiplayer board games. Correct me if I am wrong, but even the idea of a Sandbox style board game sounds new and is one of the enabling factors in it being open to modding.
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I guess it depends what you mean by a sandbox boardgame. There are a few that may qualify such as Civilisation, clash of Cultures, etc.
I also just found a site which has Mage Wars available on line on PC. It is down right now but looks interesting.
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I also just found a site which has Mage Wars available on line on PC. It is down right now but looks interesting.
Can you PM the URL to me?
Thanks
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I also just found a site which has Mage Wars available on line on PC. It is down right now but looks interesting.
Can you PM the URL to me?
Thanks
I don't know the URL but the site us called OCTGN. they have several on line card games up.
How about releasing a Vassal module for Mage Wars?
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How about releasing a Vassal module for Mage Wars?
We'd need to find someone with Vassal development experience.
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Personally I prefer OCTGN much more (for cardgames at least), and the guy's plugin is kind of playable already, you just have to do a lot of things for yourself. Or are you against OCTGN? (but than it would mean that Vassal is a no go aswell, right?)
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Or are you against OCTGN? (but than it would mean that Vassal is a no go aswell, right?)
Never used OCTGN as it is a Windows only app but the question was about Vassal and there appears to be an OCTGN plugin already.
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I'm a boardgamer much more than a card gamer, so I have never heard of OCTGN but I am very familiar with Vassal. In fact, Zun Tsu is probably the best option for Mage Wars. But, heck, I don't care as long as I can find a way to play Mage Wars on line.
I spent four hours today trying to get Mage Wars on OCTGN to work , and finally succeeded. It is rough and clunky, but..
I CAN PLAY MAGE WARS ON LINE!
OUTSTANDING!
Pixelgeek - are you ok with me posting this more generally, or are you lukewarm to OCTGN?
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Pixelgeek - are you ok with me posting this more generally, or are you lukewarm to OCTGN?
I am not sure what the official Arcane Wonders line on OCTGN but I just view it as a way for people to continue to game and help expand the community so I am personally fine with it.
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And why not allow this app on the same grounds?
Seriously, where I live people are sort of losing interest in Mage Wars. I am not saying that a spell-book builder would necessarily reverse this trend, but it sure wouldn't hurt.
I also don't understand why they need to be so cautious. What is the worst thing that can happen with their IP if they allow this app? Can someone please provide a concrete example of a worst-case-scenario where “one fan have free reign with their IP”. If this leads to another less scrupulous person making something worse, can’t AW, at that point, just tell that less scrupulous person to stop?
Not allowing a free, fan developed app, for me that makes the warning bells start to ring. Please AW, don’t be overprotective about your IP. I am convinced you can become more successful than Games Workshop without adopting their idiotic IP and trademark policies that alienate so many fans.
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Failure to defend your IP interests can allow anyone else to use it, because a big iisue in IP law and people taking your IP is how well or what actions one took to protect those interests. It is as simple as that.
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So if a company lets one person use its IP, then its free for all to use it? Hmm. I don't buy it.
If it's your IP it's your IP. You decide who can use it and for what.
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So if a company lets one person use its IP, then its free for all to use it? Hmm. I don't buy it.
If it's your IP it's your IP. You decide who can use it and for what.
If you let unlicensed use of your IP happen you can lose those rights, that's why companies sue like hell for copyright, trademark, and patent infringement. If you know about it and don't stop it, you will lose it. You don't have to buy it, that's one big way you lose it.
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Or, you just license it to them...
Jesus, Fantasy Flight Games, for example, has tons of sites that "use their IP" for deckbuilders etc. Same with Privateer Press.
Can you give a concrete example of a company that has "lost control of their IP" due to fan sites and fan created apps?
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Cockatrice was created mostly for players to play M:TG online. IT was free to play, and it wasn't all that hard to use, and to deck build in. What else has M:TG online? Well WotC's Magic the Gathering Online, which is not free to play at all, but is really simple to use. Needless to say, the profits they lost due to Cockatrice's illegal use of IP for free content was grounds to send a Seize and Desist for the website.
You are also comparing Giants of the industry to Arcane Wonders, an amazing company, albiet small and growing. I'm not sure where there are deckbuilders for "Jesus", but I would love to see that.
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And I can see the love for MW online, but just looking at the MW module, it seems to be lacking. I don't think this is the kind of "love" people want to see when first picking up the game, but this is solely my opinion, and I would want to show new players something prettier, more elegant, and a more streamlined approach than what this has to offer.
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MtG is another example where tolerance for out of house IP use seems pretty relaxed. Tons of fan built deckbuilders out there for MtG.
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And I can see the love for MW online, but just looking at the MW module, it seems to be lacking. I don't think this is the kind of "love" people want to see when first picking up the game, but this is solely my opinion, and I would want to show new players something prettier, more elegant, and a more streamlined approach than what this has to offer.
A very strong analogy here is Vassal for boardgames and more particularly wargames. Publishers allow use of their IP by independent guys who design modules for their favourite games. That allows fans to play on line. I have never yet met a guy who played the game on Vassal without owning it in real life.
A case in point is Memoir 44. It was on Vassal for a long time. Helped build a strong following. The publishers then got serious and created their own official on line version. Slicker and more professional than the Vassal module. The publishers thanked the original Vassal module guys and moved it on. Bottom line was a bigger audience with happy players.
It is mental that there's no online spell book auditor, if not an actual game module...but wait. Cosworth has, with Spike's help I believe, created a fan made independent module for Mage Wars on OCTGN. The tragedy is that although the game and graphics work well, the actual overall system of OCTGN is a bit arcane in terms of loading games, and communicating.
Did I say 'a bit arcane' ?
Sounds as though Arcane Wonders should create a streamlined version...
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So if a company lets one person use its IP, then its free for all to use it? Hmm. I don't buy it.
If a company has a copyright or trademark and does not enforce that then they can, at a later date, be unable to enforce that IP right in another case.
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Can you give a concrete example of a company that has "lost control of their IP" due to fan sites and fan created apps?
Unless you are aware of the agreements that those sites have made with FFG etc then its not the same case as we are discussing.
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There are quite a few complicating issues that are making this entire issue not as clear as it appears from the OP's original comments. I am not at liberty to divulge them but rest assured that there is a lot going on at the moment.
Unlike companies like FFG, WoTC etc there is, AFAIK, only one fulltime person at Arcane Wonders and they don't handle IP licensing :-)
Larger companies have people and lawyers dedicated to this issue and you can't expect a smaller producer to be able to enter into agreements as quickly as other larger firms can.
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It is mental that there's no online spell book auditor, if not an actual game module...
No it isn't :-)