Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Phillus on March 25, 2017, 08:23:42 PM
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Would the Sunfire Amulet be good with the Siren —having 30 life— in a regular game of Mage Wars or is it not worth the action?
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its real value is purely determined by how early you play it, and how long you can keep it. yes it is worth it. but play it very early, turn one or two. it really shines in a game that goes long.
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Sunfire Amulet is an awesome and underplayed card. I have seen this card played first turn and generate an insane amount of life. If played early enough, put enough pressure on your opponent that he has bigger issues to deal with, and push him to prioritise those over this card; you can loop the status board.
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An early Sunfire Amulet in a vacuum is superb. What keeps it honest is that the same books wanting to play a long game are the same ones that want those first few actions playing economy even more. In a nutshell it's a great choice for some builds, but economy is often even better.
I have a couple of books that use it well, and it can be a big deal, but be aware of the opportunity cost of not doing something else.
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Good for tanking. Deploy it from Forge, or have cassiel cast it.
It does have healing subtype right?
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Cassiel would complain about having to work for a non-holy mage..
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I love the sunglow amulet with the siren it helps alot with being paired with the guard angel with forge
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A curse item on a Sunfire Amulet would be hilarious.
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A curse item on a Sunfire Amulet would be hilarious.
It's a dissolve with range 2.
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A curse item on a Sunfire Amulet would be hilarious.
It's a dissolve with range 2.
It's really not. They don't serve the same purpose.
Dissolve removes the equipment.
Curse item's job to make all their decisions bad. Let it stick and they take dmg, If they have regen, this counters it. If they dispel it, that's one less dispel to worry about.
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Sunfire amulet is a nice target for curse item. Especially since it is range 2 and if youre a dark mage you can still use it with the cloak on and stay obscured.
On the original topic, though. Sunfire with a siren sounds good. Even if its out for just a few turns, you have them use a dissolve and you may survive another attack or 2. I wouldnt worry about curse item as a siren. You stand in a shallow sea and regen 1 anyways. You could dispel it, or just stay in a sea and extend healing madrigal and heal your mage and a few friendlies at the same time.
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A curse item on a Sunfire Amulet would be hilarious.
It's a dissolve with range 2.
Fact lore true
1. This card puts the following mana cost on life:
#upkeeps in play / Mana per life gained.
1 / 6
2 / 3
3 / 2
4 / 1.5
5 / 1.2
6 / 1
2. The following cards have the following mana cost per life gained:
Bull Endurance - 1.25
Drain Soul - 2.6
Elfric's Life Ring - 1
Etherian Life Tree - 3.5
Gator Toughness - 2
Iguana Regrowth - 4 (mage is lvl 6)
Restore - 2
So this card makes your opponent make the bad choice and not you, even with Curse Item. I will expalin this more in a second. After 2 turns in play this card trumps Iguana Regrowth and Etherian life for mana cost per life gained (and gives the same amount of life). After 3 turns in play this card trumps everything else other than Elfric's Life Ring, which it trumps at the Turn 6 mark as it has generated more life at this point. The longer it is in play the harder the decision for the opposing mage not the mage with this card. They are effectively damned if they do and damned if they do not.
Cursed Item is an interesting counter but not as effective as it would first seem. Again the longer it is out the easier it is to elect to destroy, as at the 3rd upkeep phase it can die and still be 87.5% more mana effective than any other life gaining method. Also would I take 6 damage to gain 6 life. A possibility this interaction brings up. If I am on a high life level (6 damage is a life level) then yes I will take that. I can either regen over time or burst heal that away (Yes a single heal goes in every book) and I am left with 6 life ahead.
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I think Beldin is making some very good points but neglects 3 downsides:
The first is the high spellbookcost for most mages.
Secondly, unlike all the other cards (Bull, ...) Sunfire amulet has to be played during the first 1-3 rounds or maybe at the latest turn 4/5. If played later, you probably won't get much use out of it. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but the vast majority of the games tend to take 8-13 rounds.
This means that you have to play it during your opening where every spell you cast is mostly key for your gameplan. Setting aside 6 mana and a quick cast so early in the game is a big investment since that could also be used to cast a bigger buddy, an armor, a battle forge or anything else to help your main assault.
Thirdly, it can be countered by finite life as well which is mostly not the case for the other examples since they work immediately. (assuming you did not have a FD poisoned blood on your mage)
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Bull Endurance - 1.25
Drain Soul - 2.6
Elfric's Life Ring - 1
Etherian Life Tree - 3.5
Gator Toughness - 2
Iguana Regrowth - 4 (mage is lvl 6)
Restore - 2
It's the right sort of analysis, and whilst it's technically like for like; being life gain, I think the closer comparison is to Regenerate (with the corollary that you can't heal until you have taken damage).
I think it's more like a Regenerate: 1 that doesn't have the damage prerequisite. Being able to do without damage is certainly twice as powerful, and if use Regrowth and Regrowth Belt as our benchmarks then they cost 2.5 and 3 per point, whilst Sunfire is 6 per point, so it's about what we'd expect, but heavy on SBP.
The thing with the life gain cards, is that they are useful on creatures giving them a whole lot more lifespan, very few of those are commonly used on a mage.
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I hadn't considered Regenerate cards within this and looked at straight life:life benchmarks. I do concede that it is a high SBP option, however as I keep stating if it is the correct tool for the job in that build then it is worth those points.
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Had a great surprise win using a Necromancer playing a Sunfire Amulet and an Idol of Pestilence round one. Essentially meant I was getting +2 life difference every turn which made the enemy come straight in, into a barrage of Drain Souls and Drain Lifes.
Magical.
In that particular instance it was well worth the SBP it cost me.
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I hadn't considered Regenerate cards within this and looked at straight life:life benchmarks. I do concede that it is a high SBP option, however as I keep stating if it is the correct tool for the job in that build then it is worth those points.
It's really not that bad in terms of SBP. Sure for the Siren it would be 4 points, but for any other mage it's 3 points.
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It's really not that bad in terms of SBP. Sure for the Siren it would be 4 points, but for any other mage it's 3 points.
Actually, it's 5 sbp's for a Necromancer, as well as for Both Warlocks.
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It's really not that bad in terms of SBP. Sure for the Siren it would be 4 points, but for any other mage it's 3 points.
Actually, it's 5 sbp's for a Necromancer, as well as for Both Warlocks.
And especially the warlock can get use out of it when playing Mhgeddon!
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I have included Sunfire in my siren book a few weeks ago, but I could not try it yet. Today will be my first try. I will tell.
What I like from this is: being the siren a fair flexible mage, this move does not define your strategy too much, and you can act from there according to your best interest against this or that move from your oponent.
I mean, if you see a jokthari, and you begin with sunfire+crystal, you gain time to see if he plays lair or not, so decide if you play turn 2 echo or turn 3 elemental...
As pointed above by arkdeniz (but for his necro), another option for siren could be Sunfire+Idol+shallow sea... that will force anyone but a necro to attack your siren. But...