Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kingslayer on August 01, 2013, 05:41:33 AM
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Hi guys, I have a few questions with regards to a little idea that my friend and I had.
Having bought the game relatively recently I wanted to watch a game be played in a bid to pick up the rules and strategy of the game. Naturally I headed to Youtube and watched every video even vaguely related to Mage Wars, and found some very useful introductory videos but only one game played in its entirety. This left me with a craving for an insight into different people's insight into strategy and deckbuilding, which in turn led me to here, the forums. Seeing different ideas is great, and I have taken a lot of ideas from reading posts on strategy and spellbooks, but sometimes I find it difficult to visualise how some strategies would work against an organic opponent. What I'm trying to say is:
1. Would there be an interest in seeing a video of a game being played in full, albeit by relative newbies (about 30 games of experience by now)? We would also be extremely grateful of any feedback on our strategy and tactics that more experienced and accomplished players could give.
2. Would posting a video of this nature infringe on copyright laws? I'm not exactly an expert on the matter and just wanted to make sure everything was above board.
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Yes, man. Video a game and post it up. Would be great to see more stuff.
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Cheers labartels, I have seen both of those yt vids :D I just wish that there was more
Thanks for the enthusiasm Fentum, I'll arrange a game for as soon as possible and I'll post a link when it's uploaded to youtube. Hopefully in the next couple of days
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Absolutely yes. There are just too few on the net. Looking forward to see you guys playing a game of Mage Wars. :)
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'Crits Happen' is, for me, the best series of Mage Wars vids out there. Well worth a look via BGG or You Tube.
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Crits Happen does great reviews and unboxings, but to be honest, I think Tox is more of a casual player. He himself admits this, and while his videos are entertaining, they shouldn't be taken as sound strategy..
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I couldn't agree more, when I was learning the game theat critical play video was fantastic. However, I for one would love to see the beatdown forcemaster or solo warlock or earth wizard played before I spend a few hours trying to take apart my spellbooks* and try them out.
Also, I've arranged a game for today with my Aussie housemate, and should either have it uploaded tonight or tomorrow. He's playing the warlock, and I'm playing the Johktari beastmaster.
*as a side note: I have bought the core set, the forcemaster vs warlord and the conquedt of kumanjaro expansions. With which I have built a permanent 6 mage setups without having to share cards. I'm sure my ultimate strategy suffers for that, but at the same time I like to mix things up. Variety is, after all, the spice of life :D
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Crits Happen does great reviews and unboxings, but to be honest, I think Tox is more of a casual player. He himself admits this, and while his videos are entertaining, they shouldn't be taken as sound strategy..
Ah yes. I get you now.
Tox's video is GREAT to learn the mechanics, but not the greatest demonstration of tactics.
My advice would be to try OCTGN. You can get several games in easily, and there is nothing supports learning like a live enemy.
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Good news: We've managed to record a full game, and have uploaded the first part here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exd77X0Jiy4
The second part is currently being uploaded. Unfortunately, we aren't youtube partners yet, and as such are restricted to videos under 10mins in length, and our recording equipment leaves a lot to be desired (we've had a lot of trouble with the audio). Hopefully we'll all of it uploaded in the next couple of days.
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Based on Part 1, here's some critiques:
1. To the Warlock player: Frankly, Flaming Hellions are not good; you should just go with Slayers pretty much every time if you're looking for a meaty demon. Warlock is probably my most played mage, and even though I've tried to like Hellions in many different builds, they have not earned their spot. Their Ranged attack rolls too low and at a poor range, and they do not have the stats to stay in melee very long to take advantage of their mediocre melee attack.
This has been made worse with the release of the powerful intercept creatures...
Consequently, this makes them a poor choice for Bloodreaper as well, which you really need to be making use of. In that context, a Bloodreaper Slayer is incredibly formidable. In fact, besides Adramelech, you can count on Slayers to do most of your heavy lifting, and should incorporate them into every opening you make as the Warlock.
2. I recommend casting 2 Mana Crystals/Flowers instead of one. In post-Conquest MW, things have slowed down a bit. Previously, it was much easier to rush the opposing mage, because you could very reliably throw attack spells at the enemy Mage without having to worry about much stopping you (apart from Walls cutting LoS, but with how LoS works, diagonal positioning easily got around it, to say nothing of flying creatures).
This also heavily impacted the viability of expensive, high-damage, low-survivability ranged creatures such as Grimson, Royal Archers, Gorgon Archers, etc, which you could very efficiently burst down with an attack spell or two plus maybe some creature attacks if you needed them.
With the reality of Intercept on creatures with a Defense and superb defensive stats, however, it's a lot less of a no-brainer in terms of using attack spells, and very aggressive strategies are more difficult to execute. Enough so that I now recommend most builds start with 2 Mana Whatevers on Turn 1. It may seem like a nitpick, but trust me, it's not; after significant testing, I've found that 2 Mana conjurations is difficult to disrupt from Turn 1, and that extra mana usually means the difference between winning and losing.
After Turn 1, however, casting Mana conjurations starts to interfere with tight opening summons, and may make it too difficult to survive/end the game if your opponent is aggressive/defensive enough. Suffice it to say that you should just go with 2, because it offers a lot of advantage at very little risk.
That's all for now, I'll post more after part 2 is up.
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Wow :D thanks reddawn. That's some incredible insight into the warlock players strategy after seeing just three rounds! The guy playing warlock is by far the most aggressive opener in our play group, and most of his victories have come from combining attacks, burns and curses in early rounds. I know that Chris will try and take on board all of your advice, as will I (the beastmaster player). Particularly the two mana generator open, I've always liked that idea and now knowing that it proves to be optimal in playtesting will probablysee me doing that in 80% of future games :)
Part two is now up here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQcuwzqON0 and will be the last for tonight (its currently 2am in the UK)
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Just saw them episodes... niiiiiice
As i started playing MageWars and started trying to find for info, gameplay.. theres close to nothing... theres only so many times u can see tutorials and box openings untill you get bored XD... (like 4 tutorilas :l)...
I thought of doing this myself... althought i would prefer to record on OCTGN, you should maybe try it... since you can get better quality recording..without the need of a cam..and you can focus on having good audio...
Well thast my recomendation, based on what i wanted to do... but if you dont..maybe i will xD... and i you do... would love to be on a recorded match :D...
Regarding Stragedy and Plays...
Play alot of warlock... like what i saw so far, i really dont like bats tho :/ they are 1 hit punchbags...if u can get one alive enough maaaybe u can get a rot... but seems like really big investment... but still..this is only 2 parts out of 10... cant jugde untill seeing the whole game, and still would not judge...
As for the Johktari BeastQueen <3, i like her :3... cant saying anything bad about her...(or the player)... just interested in seeing how the game progresses for the bestmaster.
Congrats on being the first to upload, and keep it up... :)
and seriously, if your up for some octgn recording... i would love to join, and i not... would love to know so i can start doing that :D, we need to fill channels of mage wars...spread the fever!
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Yeah bats are kind of whatever...the problem is the fact that the Warlock doesn't really "play well" with them. At least you can make Imps emergency Bloodreapers, and their 6 life survives most creature swings. Plus, the burn chance is better.
Either way, it's not really a big deal, since either creature is a pretty small play.
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Thanks for the video. Great job. Looking forward to the next parts and hope to see more from you guys.
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Good video. Well done.
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I do have a some notes for the BM player; Galador, in my experience with the Johktari BM, is mainly there for the Holy mage/Warlord matchup, since Galador basically craps on lots of War and Holy school creatures due to Lightning +2 (you might need to Sniper Shot to force through his attack against the Knights and intercept Dwarves, but it's worth it).
Outside of that matchup, he's ok, but not generally as good as Makunda, because his ranged attack doesn't interact with Wounded Prey, and his melee attack is usually subpar for his cost. The difference seems minor, they're both relatively sturdy heavy-hitters, but imo, the bleeds really help if your goal is to kill creatures (which it probably should be, since that's what the Johk BM excels at).
Makunda and Dire Wolves in particular are very good at killing non-mage creatures. If I need a creature boost after Makunda/Steelclaw and a Dire Wolf or two (sometimes a Spider or Tarok, for flyers), or just in later rounds, I like to use Emerald Tegus + Rouse the Beast if I think I can afford to. Tegus are fairly sturdy for their cost, work with Wounded Prey, and also are good at killing creatures with their Rots. They're like mini-dire wolves, but it's kinda better since Rots require Purify rather than heals, so it sometimes forces your opponent to be more flexible.
I haven't gotten a chance to watch the second part yet, but just a general Johktari BM strategy tip; try to incorporate some damage-dealing curses like Chains of Agony and Ghoul Rot so that you have immediate access to Wounded Prey when you need it. Marked for Death is also great, as with most control-ish BM builds.Learning this was a key event in me getting better at the Johktari BM, since I didn't have to actually spend my creatures actions causing the initial damage needed for the ability, and the curses themselves are plenty good on their own. You don't need more than 1 of each btw.
Also, not sure if you cast a bow later on, but I've found the Ivarium Bow to be more useful than the Hunting Bow. Maybe I just haven't had luck with it, but the extra piercing and chance to bleed rarely goes off (it's hard to plan for) and is rarely relevant. Not really worth the extra 3 mana, but at least it's cool.
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Thanks once again reddawn, you really have some great tips. Here are my (the Johktari player's) thoughts on your strategy tips:
This was only the second time that I had played the JBM, and as such a large reason that I played Galador (and later a lot of other new cards) was because I hadn't played them before and wanted to see what they could do. I like playing a large creature early on, and as such it was a toss up between Galador and Makunda (from the Conquest cards), but Galador won out in my strategy in an an effort to have a flexible way to protect my mage from a potential Adramalech summon, without sacrificing the long term potential.
As a side note here, and I hope that I don't come across as arrogant by saying this, I am comfortably the best player in my play group (I've only ever lost three times, and very rarely play my strongest mages - the wizard and forcemaster) and trying to make new cards work is a fun way for me to level the playing field without deliberately making bad plays. So what I'm saying is that I completely agree with your 'Makunda/Steelclaw being the better choice', I just thought that you might want to know the thought process behind my plays.
I do end up equipping a hunting bow, and team it up with a dire wolf hoping to inflict bleeds, along with a few other newbies. I did wonder about the Ivarium longbow, I might give it a go in the future (along with the curses ;) )
Also, parts 3,4 and 5 are now online, the rest will probably follow shortly
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBn3tnQDz9Y
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If you were just testing Galador, no problem, I was just giving you my experience on him. Gotta test stuff to know for sure, after all.
Like how I tested going control Warlorck vs earth Wizard today against Charmyna. Not one of my better ideas lol (kicked my ass). Definitely cannot wait long or the Wiz's mana advantage is just too much. Needs an aggro package against high-channel mages for sure.
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I am very grateful for you sharing that experience too :)
I love playing a control game, which is probably why I like the forcemaster and the wizard so much tbh. From what I've read in the forums, Charmyna sounds like a formidable opponent, at least that way you're giving your control warlock a trial by fire, he'd probably like that idea ;)
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If you were just testing Galador, no problem, I was just giving you my experience on him. Gotta test stuff to know for sure, after all.
Like how I tested going control Warlorck vs earth Wizard today against Charmyna. Not one of my better ideas lol (kicked my ass). Definitely cannot wait long or the Wiz's mana advantage is just too much. Needs an aggro package against high-channel mages for sure.
He is very tough to beat....
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I think I would have stood a better chance if I hadn't tried to out-channel him. By the time I realized I needed to attack, I knew I was in trouble lol.
Probably pretty dumb to try to out-channel a Wizard, but hey, I openly admit I have close to no experience playing against the Wizard, so time to learn.
Edit: I did kill a Bear though. Drain/Life/Soul-ed it. At least I had some Bear jerkey before I died.
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If you were just testing Galador, no problem, I was just giving you my experience on him. Gotta test stuff to know for sure, after all.
Like how I tested going control Warlorck vs earth Wizard today against Charmyna. Not one of my better ideas lol (kicked my ass). Definitely cannot wait long or the Wiz's mana advantage is just too much. Needs an aggro package against high-channel mages for sure.
Great to read that you are on OCTGN. I am in hols right now but look forward to seeing you in the arena soon.
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If you were just testing Galador, no problem, I was just giving you my experience on him. Gotta test stuff to know for sure, after all.
Like how I tested going control Warlorck vs earth Wizard today against Charmyna. Not one of my better ideas lol (kicked my ass). Definitely cannot wait long or the Wiz's mana advantage is just too much. Needs an aggro package against high-channel mages for sure.
Great to read that you are on OCTGN. I am in hols right now but look forward to seeing you in the arena soon.
I've been playing a ton IRL over the past half a week or so (4-6 games or more per day :o ), but yup, I'll be online more starting Tuesday prob. Been playing against lots of Forcemaster and Wizard, so I'd like to think I'm getting better at those match ups. 8)
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I really enjoyed this video series. thanks guys.
Only tips I would suggest would be in tactical positioning: I think the warlock was too slow at closing space on the beastmaster in the early turns. It seemed like you were circling the action rather than going through it. For the beastmaster, I would think you ran away too much when you put up the wall of vines, it meant were completely incapable of supporting your dying spider, reindeer and ferret.
Otherwise a great game and good see an exploding regrowth belt and a flying Wolf spider.