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Messages - webcatcher

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31
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 28, 2014, 11:59:25 AM »
As a general rule I think it's always going to be better to fix the Wizard than to fix everyone else, just because that involves fewer moving parts.

32
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 28, 2014, 10:14:35 AM »
+1 to sIKE. Wizard has too many options.

33
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 28, 2014, 08:49:48 AM »
Quote
Alternate Solution #2: Someone (too lazy to look up who right now, sorry) mentioned giving every mage training in level 1 Arcane. This is a horrible idea. It again homogenizes the game, would flood the market with such spells (like the Novice idea would), and have such a huge impact on the game on whole that nobody could possibly predict the consequences. I do like that it wouldn't require any card errata or even any new cards. It could be implemented over night. So I applaud you on elegance, but it is an elegant nightmare.

That was me. I'm not going to try too hard to sell this idea since I think it's one of a number of viable options, but I don't think it would have nearly the impact you think it would. Remember, anyone who wants to can already load up on level 1 arcane spells just by playing a wizard. All this solution would do would be to let people do the same thing without recourse to the wizard. In my opinion, this is the opposite of homogenizing the game, because you get more viable builds vs the Wizard. As BoomFrog pointed out, Arcane is very strong and is the only thing that can counter Arcane. As we've seen, this is not healthy for the game. Releasing cards in muliple other schools that can counter arcane or releasing multiple novice spells are both valid solutions, but they're slow and carry their own potential balance pitfalls. At the end of the day, any of these solutions will change the game balance, but that's what we want, right? The game balance right now is Wizard on top with privileged access to most of the game's best spells, and everyone else playing at a disadvantage.


34
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 27, 2014, 07:12:59 PM »
Quote
What will this do to the meta? I am quite sure the majority of builds will include 5-6 Dispels and 2-4 Seeking Dispels. In such a meta how many builds will include enchantments which cost more than two spellpoints? I might take some enchants for three spellpoints in my books (e.g. triple cost lvl one), but I would really hesitate to include level two out of school enchants into any book or level four enchants like Forcefield.

It'll definitely change the meta, but I'm not sure it'll be for the worse. I think one of two things is likely to happen.

1) People will begin saving their large enchantments for the endgame after they've already drawn dispels with lesser enchantments. If I'm playing a forcemaster and I want to use my forcefield(s) late game I might drop a magebane or two early game so my opponent has to choose between leaving the magebanes in place and saving his dispels for the big stuff or he can suffer the effects of the curse the entire game. And since I'm getting my own dispels and nullifies cheaper I'll have the extra book points to add the extra magebanes.

2) People will cluster their enchantments more (BB style). My forcemaster might not jump into the fray until she's got a facedown bear strength, mongoose agility, forcefield, nullify, decoy, regrowth on her. Then I reveal all at once and let my opponent either try to dispel them one at a time (very time and mana intensive) or go for the purge magic (and let him hope he guesses right on his seeking dispel lest he target the decoy).

A change? Sure. A change for the worse? I don't think so.

35
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 27, 2014, 07:05:14 PM »
I think we could exempt creatures for the sake of flavor. The enchantments, incantations, conjurations and equipment would solve a lot of arcane-school-utility-concentration issues and would retain the fluff (because why wouldn't a master mage in any discipline be trained in basic arcane spells?)

36
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 27, 2014, 02:47:11 PM »
I agree that Epic is the simplest and best fix for the tower. Here's an alternative to the Wizard nerf off the top of my head. What if this sentence was added to the Training section of the rulebook: "Because they are critical for any mage and are among the first spells learned in any magic curriculum, all mages are considered trained in level 1 arcane spells regardless of their other training restrictions."

37
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 27, 2014, 09:59:18 AM »
I seriously doubt two restricted schools would cripple the Wizard.  Heck,  I'm not convinced it would go far enough. A wizard can make a perfectly terrifying book using just arcane if he wants to.

38
Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: The Chargeotaur (Warlord)
« on: February 26, 2014, 08:38:46 PM »
Casting evade plus charge in the same turn doesn't leave you a lot of wiggle room. I suggest adding an enchantment or two to take some of the weight off (cheetah speed or mongoose agility).

39
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 26, 2014, 08:37:10 PM »
Quote
This approach with Wizard is to
(a) remove what makes him special by giving lesser versions to everyone at the same cost
(b) create CHOICE when you build books - go with 4 Dispels or 2 Dispels + 4 Novice Dispels? (Both 8SPs)

One of the things that makes the wizard special is his school flexibility combined with two trained schools and no restricted schools. I think that's one of the most important things to fix, and it'll take an errata. Otherwise you maintain the problem of the wizard benefiting as much from another mage's new cards as the other mage does.

40
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 26, 2014, 03:33:35 PM »
While we're on the subject of changing or not changing the wizard's stat card, there's another angle I think we should look at. The folks at AW want their game to stay accessible to new players, and with good reason. They rightly conclude that having a bunch of card erratas running around makes the game less accessible for new players who can become frustrated when they learn that the cards in their new game don't do what they say they do. However, the wizard is broken and needs fixing. Right now it looks like there are two options for fixing it.

1) Errata a mage card
2) Release cards in future expansions (hopefully beginning with FiF) to bring the wizard into check.

So what's easier for a new player to swallow? In scenario 1, the new player gets the frustration of having a major modification to their base game. In scenario 2, the base game works as advertised (except for the 3 erratas already in place, but they're minor). However, when they start buying expansions the power level of the different mages gets all out of whack until they've collected them all (and until all the major wizard fixes get implemented, which I expect to take 2 expansions, it just won't get fixed).

So which of these options will serve the game better by being the most accessible to new players?
For new players who just want the base game and aren't going to make a hobby out of it, option 2 is better, but I honestly don't think it matters because I don't think that sort of player will pay any attention to the errata (just as there are base-game only players out there somewhere right now applying Bear Strength to both attacks after casting Battle Fury). Option 1 is much better for players who are going to make a hobby out of the game, not only because it allows them to maintain approximate parity with their friend who already owns all of the expansions while they take 6 months to a year to get caught up, but also because most people who are used to hobby games take a little errata in stride (and at this point MW has a very minimal amount of errata).

For this out-of-game reason, as well as for in-game reasons (which I also think favor an errata to the wizard, although I know others disagree) I think an errata to the wizard card would be a vast improvement over the alternative.

41
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 26, 2014, 12:33:04 PM »
I've said it before,  but I vote for changing the wizard's stat card.

42
Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: The Chargeotaur (Warlord)
« on: February 26, 2014, 12:28:54 PM »
Can you show us a copy of the minotaur card?

43
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 26, 2014, 10:02:07 AM »
Zuberi, let's use push as an example since there are obvious  similarities to teleport. Eagleclaw boots are a great counter to push and I'm glad they exist. Iron golem is a bad counter because it negates push, also negates the other major advantage of the mage most likely to use pushes, and would be a good creature even without push negation. The task with Teleport is to release multiple cards of Eagleclaw boots power level without straying into Iron Golem territory. I think it's a fine idea,  but let's be careful.

44
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 26, 2014, 08:55:06 AM »
I think having more novice spells would be great. In hindsight I think they should've initially decided that either all mages or no mages were trained in arcane to maintain parity, but since that ship has sailed more novice spells will restore the balance some. I think non mandatory Nullify and block are too powerful, though.  I'd revise them so optional Nullify could only affect level 1 spells and block reduced attack dice by 4. That way books that depend on a big few creatures or spells aren't completely hobbled.

45
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 26, 2014, 07:29:11 AM »
Creating other-school alternates to teleport is a great idea and I endorse it. In that case we're just creating options that are on parity with existing cards but which are easier for other mages to access. And creating cards to specifically counter currently strong builds is not, in itself, a bad move. The reason I remain cautious is that there's a thin line between a new card that helps Mage X beat Mage Y because it counters one of Mage Y's high-power cards and a new card that helps Mage X beat Mage Y because it increases Mage X's overall power level. In my opinion a good example of this is the Iron Golem. The Forcemaster was coming out and she had tons of board control and psychic enchantments, so they released an unmovable psychic immune creature to combat her. A good move in theory, but the creature also has high armor, a good swift attack, and plenty of health, and it's only disadvantage is that it's slow (barely a disadvantage in an era of teleport dominance). Had the Iron Golem come with a 4 dice attack and 7 health, I'd think it was a nice situational counter to Forcemaster cheese. As it is, it's a very strong creature in its own right in addition to completely negating the FM's advantages. Consequently, it was (and maybe still is) one of the dominant creatures in the game and will arguably grant an auto-win to a competent player against certain builds. That's the sort of thing I think we need to avoid, and balancing conjurations and enchantments is probably even more difficult than balancing creatures.

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