Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spells => Topic started by: isel on April 28, 2014, 03:36:23 PM
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Hello i would like to know if you think tha togorath its bad or good.
I thing togorath it´s bad because he have the following problems:
-Cost too much 21 mana.- Grizzly bear less and less level and have in full action 7 dice with piercing.
-Have a good hability to guard but can´t counterstrike, which meaning that its a big bag of take punchs.
-Cant move and strike- better a zombie with resilient.
This would change, in my opinion if he could have a quick melee attack, but now i prefer pay for 2 raptor vines that are more effectively.
Your opinion?
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I'll admit I've never seen him played. I've wondered this myself Isel.
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I rarely see him played, but when he is played he is devastating. He is expensive, but trust me when I say if he were any cheaper he would verge on being overpowered.
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i played him 2 times
-first he was target for a quicksand and die in 4 rounds, no teleporst left...
-second he was attacked by 2 zombies that put 5 tainted conditions on him, was a desaster, and he could´nt kill any of them for the resilient trait, and only one attack.
I would prefer a conjuration
"totem keep of the woods"
Vigilant, intercept, regenerate 2, totem gain a guard token at the end of action phase.
I played togorath because me an my friends believe that he could counterstrike, but know none like playing too much, i prefer a Grizzly bear, cheaper and effectively or kralathor (it´s big an can reach flying creatures, togorath it´s big and don´t have reach xd)
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I'm not gonna lie I prefer Kralathor for my giant monster plant purposes too.
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yeah, and i hope druid have a great disaventage becuase she uses normally the same plants because she have few to choose, i hope soon well see more plants or creatures that gain bonus for guard in his zone a plant .
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i played him 2 times
-first he was target for a quicksand and die in 4 rounds, no teleporst left...
-second he was attacked by 2 zombies that put 5 tainted conditions on him, was a desaster, and he could´nt kill any of them for the resilient trait, and only one attack.
I would prefer a conjuration
"totem keep of the woods"
Vigilant, intercept, regenerate 2, totem gain a guard token at the end of action phase.
I played togorath because me an my friends believe that he could counterstrike, but know none like playing too much, i prefer a Grizzly bear, cheaper and effectively or kralathor (it´s big an can reach flying creatures, togorath it´s big and don´t have reach xd)
Your example are useless... any creature would have died by that.
Togorath has Reach, I don't know why you say he doesnt.
Now, Togorath vs Grizzly:
Togorath will prevent a Hurl Boulder to crush your face because he has Vigilant. A Grizzly doesnt.
He can't be Force Pushed/Surging Waved away of your mage. A Grizzly would leave your mage defenseless.
He attack at 6 Dice + 50% chance of daze/stun. That is better than 7 Dice + Piercing 1.
He has 3 more hp, 1 less armor and Regenerate 2. He is harder to kill than a Bear.
He has Vigilant, which is better than a Bear guarding, here is why:
Bear either attack or guard. If it attacks, he can't guard, leaving your mage defenseless. If it guard, it doesnt attack unless it get attacked (but enemy could Knockdown, Force Push, etc making your bear wasted a whole turn).
Togorath attack BAM! Than it get on guard defending your mage. Yes it doesnt counterstrike, but it doesnt matter, it already attacked.
The only down side of Togorath is if the battlefield is moving, he can't move and attack. But if the battlefield is moving, than you should not use Togorath. He is made to defend and he is amazing at it.
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I rather have Kralathor or 2 raptor vines instead
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-second he was attacked by 2 zombies that put 5 tainted conditions on him, was a desaster, and he could´nt kill any of them for the resilient trait, and only one attack.
That is EXACTLY what Togorah is for. That is 5 Taint conditions (15 unhealable damage) and numerous attacks that did not get put on your mage or your life tree. Togorah's job is to take damage.
The thing to remember about Toggy is that he is a purely defensive themed creature, so comparing him to another creature based on potential attack dice or attack opportunities is unfair.
Togorah's main role is to stand in a zone you want protected and catch projectiles, absorb attacks, and punch back at creatures who do try to go headlong into his zone.
At 18 Health and 2 Armor with 2 Regenerate, he is really sturdy. Give the zone he is standing in a Fortified Position or drop a Rhino Hide on him and he is going to stick around for a while. (Since he Regenerates, Bull Endurance is bad on him either)
Fun Fact: During playtesting I was a big proponent of phrasing Druid's Treebond ability to include creatures so that she could tree bond with Togorah.
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My problem with Togorah is that after casting it you no longer have the resources to go on the offensive (since Togorah is nearly useless on offense). By the time you have the mana to get back on the offensive Togorah is dead or nearly dead. It's like giving your opponent a couple of turns to build up.
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By the way, is Togorah a level 6 or 7 creature? For a long time the card art for it on octgn said level 7 and now it says 6. Which is right?
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Six.
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Torgorath defensive? i know, its better in defense, but.....cost 21, i prefer attack at begin, and when im in position of defend normally i havent 21 mana free, if togorath cost lest would be bette because with his intercept i could stop range attacks to my tree, but the problem it´s that if i cast my treebond in firt turn, its very easy in second turn than a warlock throw me 2 fireball (ask to redhawk) and torgorath its impossible to summoned before that, i read that in test treebond wil be in any creature plant, i hope this would be now, because druid would be more interesting, because now all players that i played, knows the 3 first turns of a druid -tree-treebond- plant ... i hope this change soon.
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What I want to know is why they didn't reduce Togorah's power level in some other way than making it incompatible with tree bond. That's really crippling. I hope they'll make an alternate Druid at some point that can actually use Togorah effectively. Here's hoping that they make a short male Irish-ish Druid next March...
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I think Togorah is a good creature and appropriately priced. He is definitely geared towards defense, however. Given the aggressive tendencies that most people seem to have, he probably is being passed over a lot. However, in a defensive control build for the Druid he could be an awesome inclusion.
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I hope this doesn't result in my finding out we played wrong, but I did find Tog made a satisfying zombie once I beat him down and raised him from the dead using Rise Again :)
I was surprised I could, as it says non Epic, which seems to allow legendary resurrections correct...?
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Correct, you can re-animate legendary creatures if they aren't epic.
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hahahaa another reason to not play Togo, xd
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Except that reason applies to ALL non-epic creatures not just Togorah
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Also, since Togorath is Slow, he would start out Stunned when Raised. (In case you missed that.) He also couldn't regenerate, and takes six damage, so he likely wouldn't last all that long. There are much better creatures to Raise.
He is, all around, just a bad card.
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Also, since Togorath is Slow, he would start out Stunned when Raised. (In case you missed that.) He also couldn't regenerate, and takes six damage, so he likely wouldn't last all that long. There are much better creatures to Raise.
He is, all around, just a bad card.
I watched a game today where he took out the Wizards Tower all the while Intercepting its attack. He was not able to counter attack, but each round that full attack of his and then back on Guard was quite eye opening to watch.
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Also, since Togorath is Slow, he would start out Stunned when Raised.
Togorah is not slow.
Sadly, I have not been able to find a use for him either.
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Who uses plants and trees? Druid.
Both the druid and the treebonded vinetree are both extremely durable. The druid simply does not need the protection from Togorath.
Perhaps a future more fragile druid can use this creature.
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Togorah is not slow.
Gah! Teaches me not to type when I'm already halfway in bed thinking "sweet, sweet sleep..." ; )
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It seems to me that Togorah is intended to be a creature that gains his mage tempo if he is cast as a reaction to something else. He doesn't have the tools to carry a game himself, but he can blunt a powerful offense while doing enough damage to take out whatever is threatening you. Bring him out after the opponent has committed to some big offense, not before, and he'll earn his keep.
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It seems to me that Togorah is intended to be a creature that gains his mage tempo if he is cast as a reaction to something else. He doesn't have the tools to carry a game himself, but he can blunt a powerful offense while doing enough damage to take out whatever is threatening you. Bring him out after the opponent has committed to some big offense, not before, and he'll earn his keep.
Gain tempo spending 21 mana it´s loose time, with 21 mana you can cast in one turn 2 great creatures plant and one incantation to put you sure as teleport.
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Some of comparisons in this thread don't even make any sense. You play Togorah for his abilities. If you don't need his traits, you don't play him. Does that mean he's situational? Yes. Does that mean he's bad? No. ::)
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Some of comparisons in this thread don't even make any sense. You play Togorah for his abilities. If you don't need his traits, you don't play him. Does that mean he's situational? Yes. Does that mean he's bad? No. ::)
The discussion is over whether or not Togorah is worth spending 6 spellpoint to put into your book when it's highly situational at best, and there are other things you could put in instead that solve the same problems Togorah does except for less spellpoints and mana (and they likely also solve other problems as well).
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Some of comparisons in this thread don't even make any sense. You play Togorah for his abilities. If you don't need his traits, you don't play him. Does that mean he's situational? Yes. Does that mean he's bad? No. ::)
The discussion is over whether or not Togorah is worth spending 6 spellpoint to put into your book when it's highly situational at best, and there are other things you could put in instead that solve the same problems Togorah does except for less spellpoints and mana (and they likely also solve other problems as well).
I know what the discussion is over, thank you.
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Every Necro should have a [mwcard=MW1E08]Death Link[/mwcard]ed [mwcard=DNC18]Togorah, Forest Sentinel[/mwcard] standing in the middle of the [mwcard=DNJ04]Graveyard[/mwcard].
It's simply a matter of style.
Never played with him, but I think Togo is a cool design. 8)
It's a tragedy Druid can't Treebond him.
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Keep it civil everbody.
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Every Necro should have a [mwcard=MW1E08]Death Link[/mwcard]ed [mwcard=DNC18]Togorah, Forest Sentinel[/mwcard] standing in the middle of the [mwcard=DNJ04]Graveyard[/mwcard].
It's simply a matter of style.
Never played with him, but I think Togo is a cool design. 8)
It's a tragedy Druid can't Treebond him.
Poor poor togo, now its the keeper of the graveyard...snifff
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Every Necro should have a [mwcard=MW1E08]Death Link[/mwcard]ed [mwcard=DNC18]Togorah, Forest Sentinel[/mwcard] standing in the middle of the [mwcard=DNJ04]Graveyard[/mwcard].
It's simply a matter of style.
Never played with him, but I think Togo is a cool design. 8)
It's a tragedy Druid can't Treebond him.
Not sure a 21 mana 12 spellpoint creature (for Necromancer) would ever be worth it.
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Every Necro should have a [mwcard=MW1E08]Death Link[/mwcard]ed [mwcard=DNC18]Togorah, Forest Sentinel[/mwcard] standing in the middle of the [mwcard=DNJ04]Graveyard[/mwcard].
It's simply a matter of style.
Never played with him, but I think Togo is a cool design. 8)
It's a tragedy Druid can't Treebond him.
Not sure a 21 mana 12 spellpoint creature (for Necromancer) would ever be worth it.
Hide a Darkfeene Bat in the Necros start corner with a Regrowth Enchantment....
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Togorath is good. Maybe the imagery of the LOTR and Treebeard smashing stuff is what has skewered perspectives :P
Expensive yes. Slow yes. Is he a standalone offensive wincon? No. (Though you might be forgiven for thinking he looks like one) So if this is the bad where is the good?
He is purely a defensive/support unit. He defends dominates a zone or supports an offensive by absorbing enemy actions through Vigilance/Intercept. Against wolf packs/blobs/+2 decent fliers I look no further than Togorath. He controls what hits you take and and takes a lot of them.
Unmentioned so far (i think) is the Lifebond ability if you Treebond with Togorath, which you are going to do every time. Suddenly he is capable of healing 4 health a turn! Lifebond 2 Regenerate 2. Put Barkskin on Druid now nobody is even loosing health. He and the Druid can tank a lot and i mean a lot of damage this way.
ahh wouldn't that be nice...:(
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Togorath is good. Maybe the imagery of the LOTR and Treebeard smashing stuff is what has skewered perspectives :P
Expensive yes. Slow yes. Is he a standalone offensive wincon? No. (Though you might be forgiven for thinking he looks like one) So if this is the bad where is the good?
He is purely a defensive/support unit. He defends dominates a zone or supports (meaning you never send him in alone) an offensive by absorbing enemy actions through Vigilance/Intercept.
Unmentioned so far (i think) is the Lifebond ability if you Treebond with Togorath, which you are going to do every time. Suddenly he is capable of healing 4 health a turn! Lifebond 2 Regenerate 2. Put Barkskin on Druid now nobody is even loosing health. He and the Druid can tank a lot and i mean a lot of damage this way.
Against wolf packs/blobs/+2 decent fliers I look no further than Togorath. He controls what hits you take and is the best healer in the game when Treebonded. No other unit i have played with comes close to being able to tank what this tree can.
Understand him as action control/defensive support unit and he comes into his own.
"when a friendly tree conjuration comes into play"
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Yeah, you cant Treebond with him. But he is still an amazing defender et he will see more plays in druid build to protect the Vine Tree with all the fire stuff coming in FiF
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Yeah, you cant Treebond with him. But he is still an amazing defender et he will see more plays in druid build to protect the Vine Tree with all the fire stuff coming in FiF
welp scatch part of that, still learning :P My and my friends bad, tree bond the tree right, right?
I will nonetheless play him for the other reasons.
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I've always been disappointed i cant treebond this guy, because that would be so very awesome. I'd prefer a weaker treedude if that meant i could treebond him.
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I don't think he would need a tree bond if he were just one mana less to summon. I tried a tank Druid using Togorah for a while with this opening.
Round 1: Etherian life tree move to NC
Round 2: use a decoy to fake a nullify. Reveal decoy and summon Togorah. Not enough mana for anything else this round.
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Yeah, you cant Treebond with him. But he is still an amazing defender et he will see more plays in druid build to protect the Vine Tree with all the fire stuff coming in FiF
I think Guardian Angel would be a better choice. No Flame +2, 9 mana less to summon, same spellpoint cost for a Druid, Guardian Angel has a defense which Togorah lacks, and Guardian Angel will benefit more from Raincloud (netting Flame -2, heal 2 damage when guarding, and Regenerate 1 as opposed to Regenerate 2).
Also the Angel will get more benefit out of the Nature defensive enchantments, Rhino Hide and Regrowth, than Togorah will.
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I think people aren't understanding how they're supposed to play Togorah. The reason you play Togorah is his stats and abilities:
6 Dice attack with Reach and can Daze or Stun: can attack the enemy mage or attack threats
Vigilant: Always guards at end of his action phase as a free action
Intercept: can protect stuff from ranged attacks while guarding
Now since he costs 21 mana and has vigilant, it's hard to see him staying in one place all game protecting a vine tree that would be better protected by bloodspine walls, vine markers and tanglevines etc, especially considering that he also has a 6 dice attack. Unlike all the other trees which always stay put, Togorah is a MOVING TREE. What he wants to do is protect another creature (or perhaps a moving conjuration?) while it sets up and/or attacks the enemy mage. Togorah can also get some attacks in before it guards using its vigilant trait. It can even move twice before guarding! Since Togorah costs so much mana, you'll want it protecting your mage, and maybe you'll want to summon a low-cost creature that you can buff over time to also protect.
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Togy has saved me on multiple occasions, someone was after me with a beast master, had a pack of wolves on me, with togorath around i was able to kill one and absorb another, instead of taking 24 dice of damage I only took twelve, between life bond and bark skin the i got away largely unscathed, next turn he takes another wolf out, absorbs two attacks, i took another one and the beast master was on the run. hit him with a stuck from my vinewhip staff and gave him what was coming. I <3 Togy.
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The way I use him is to guard my tree bonded vine tree. He protects the tree and anyone who tries to get in there to kill them is in for a bad surprise.
He is not so much a guard as... well... a sentinel.
He is one more reason to avoid going into that zone. Do not move him unless there is nothing to protect.
Also, when the siren comes out all the druids creatures are gonna be handy
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I would use him for any strategy that would instead wall itself in. He is more action efficient then casting a bunch of walls around you and if worse comes to worse he can even walk with you.
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Maybe spend the points to put him with forcemaster as her personal guard. Then quick as her built in force pull and let him do his groot thing
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Maybe spend the points to put him with forcemaster as her personal guard. Then quick as her built in force pull and let him do his groot thing
12 spell points... that s kind of a waste.
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First of all, Togorah would be 18 spellbook points to include in a Forcemaster spellbook. Secondly, you can't move Togorah with Force Pull, so you would need to pull enemy creatures to Togorah. Not being able to move creatures either way drastically reduces the Forcemasters flexibility.
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yeah, I've never played the forcemaster, so i guess i missed the non mind creatures cost triple thing
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Well when ever I do a force master spell book I always end up having way under my maximum spell points so I put tons of filler cards in it. But the game ends before I can even use half of the cards. Forcemaster is just cool like that haha. But the only real problem I have with the force master is that most of the time I get targeted by tons of ranged spells or unavoidable attacks. She may be able to use her defenses and forcefield, but she definitely seems like the kind of mage that could benefit from a couple guards. Yes there might be better choices then Togorath, but The appeal to me is his regenerative power and ability to guard as a free action.
Consider this. Keep him in your zone at all times. I know your opponent may try to teleport or push you but do your best. Now you have a guard that can intercept all projectiles and even if a creatures has an unavoidable melee attack they have to attack Togorath. You all are talking about his weakness of not having a quick action, but combined with pulling enemy creatures into your zone with Togorath, you can have him stomp them good. Allowing you to focus on building your invincible mage and playing with your opponents creatures.
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Problem is if they have more than one or two creatures attacking...