Frank Lucas [an aggro Priestess attempt]

[The Dude]

right? It seems so awesome when you first start playing... and then you realize how terrible going first really is. I think an option should be instated. It does not effect the balance of the game in any way, and I do think it would encourage not only different types of openings, but completely different spell books.

[ringkichard]

Changing this rule would not let you go second more often, except against new players or tightly scripted agro decks that want odd numbered turn initiative for some reason.

[The Dude]

I talking about the choice to go second, not the probability.

[ringkichard]

I'm saying that the way the rule is now, you go second half the time.
If the person who rolled higher could chose to go second... you'd still go second half the time, because the other guy is only rarely going to chose to go first.

Adding the choice just changes it from, "The person who rolls higher goes first," to, "the person who rolls higher goes second."

(Except against people without experience, or against people with a very good reason to go first, like teleport assisted agro decks (irony!) who bring their creature in on turn 2, and then get first attack again on turn 3.)

-- Edit --

Though, now that I think about it, a lot of people are going to want to go second on turn 2, also, because they have a bit more info from turn 1. Those folks might want to go first on turn 1. Hmm.

[Fentum]

-- Edit --

Though, now that I think about it, a lot of people are going to want to go second on turn 2, also, because they have a bit more info from turn 1. Those folks might want to go first on turn 1. Hmm.

Now you are TALKIN'!

[The Dude]

See man? That decision alone could help shift the opening entirely for people! What a simple mechanic change that can dynamically shift the perspective of the opening!

[ringkichard]

I guess letting people decide instead of forcing them to go first might lead to more decks that have a strong preference to go first / go second. This might be seen as a good thing, because it's a fairly subtle thing to build your book around, and so it's skill-testing.

But I favor forcing the high roller to go first because I want the advantage of winning the die roll to be a small as possible, and if you let people start to tune their books with an expectation of going second more-often-than-not, it makes winning the initial die roll more important, and winning that roll is really just luck.

tl;dr: I don't like rewarding luck alone.

[ringkichard]

Now that there have been errata, but also the Priest, what's the status of this book?

[The Dude]

Ehh, I have kind of taken this book apart. The writing has been on the wall for a while now. I still think HoBs can be used, but now it's only a utility spell, and not an engine on it's own. Just means different builds!

[ringkichard]

Right on. I was wondering because some people are thinking that the nerfs killed Priestess, and I was wondering what you thought.

[sIKE]

At a competitive level she is borked.....

[Shad0w]

Dude and I have been looking into a few builds. BTW Aggro Priestess is not dead just different.

[sIKE]

Dude and I have been looking into a few builds. BTW Aggro Priestess is not dead just different.

As she gets pummeled by the Lash of Hellfire....

[Shad0w]

Dude and I have been looking into a few builds. BTW Aggro Priestess is not dead just different.

As she gets pummeled by the Lash of Hellfire....

I have been able to beat each mage with the build we are looking at. It is more aggro-control than aggro but it is showing enough promise to be a contender for Gencon.

[sIKE]

I have some ideas myself, I have been playing the ToL+HoBs with Wiz Tower so much, I have had to take some time off from playing to thinking about my next builds......I am interested in seeing what you got. I am less worried about Priest though than the Priestess.