Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Koz on September 27, 2012, 11:52:43 AM
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Hey all, I had some questions I was hoping someone "in the know" could help me out with. I have purchased the base set and a core spell tome so far and I'm really enjoying the game. However, my friend and I have been talking about the value of purchasing another base set for the extra cards and components (we each own one already, but we are talking about buying a second one for each of us).
My question is, can we please get some idea of which cards that are in the base set are going to be reprinted in coming expansions and how many copies will be produced? I've seen some of the designers say they are going to reprint some of the cards in future expansions so that players can get more copies, and that's great, but without having any idea of which cards, in what number and when they will be released, it's creating uncertainty in regards to our purchasing product. I'm sure other people are having this same hesitation.
Should I buy a second base set? Will this be the only way to get multiple copies of things like Hellfire Lash or the Beastmaster's Staff or the Gorgon Archer or those other mage specific cards that there are only one of in the base set? Does a second core spell tome make sense to buy, or will a lot of those cards end up appearing in other expansions? If the designers would give us a little insight on this, they could probably give themselves a little boost in sales since we can purchase with confidence. Right now, there's too much uncertainty, and no one wants to waste money on stuff they will end up not needing.
Hopefully someone can shed a little light on this so that us crazy completionist types can figure out what exactly we need to buy to have the stuff we want.
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i cant say for sure. but i am pretty sure most of the cards will be reprinted in expansions in the future. the question is when....
many things are unsure, and there is a lot of things even the designers are still working out as far as how they plan to release expansions.
the question becomes how soon do you want the extra cards? i believe the first expansion is planned for november if they havent pushed it back, and they may or may not do a spell tome at the same time.the really used cards (the dispells, disolves, nullify, block) im sure will be included with the new mages.
if you wanted a second lash of hellfire, or some of the more rare mage or school only cards, i would recomend buying a second set. my guess is as far as the expansions go they will concentrate on making more common cards available first.
i myself plan on buying a second set. on top of the core spell tome i already purchaced i think after that i will wait for expansions.
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Yeah, I'm sure there is a lot they are still trying to nail down, I'm just hoping they might shed a little light for me. And yes, I really want back ups to things like Hellfire Lash, because when your opponent knows you only own one, it is an easy choice as something to Dissolve because they know you can't get it back. Having a back up on good items like that seems like a must have to me. Plus, there are several non-legendary, non-epic creatures that appear only once in the core set and not at all in the core spell tome that I want more of (more Gorgon Archers please!).
I'm thinking that things like Hellfire Lash won't make another appearance in expansions that involve new mages, since items like that are mage specific and wouldn't make sense. But maybe you'll get extra copies in the multi-player expansion? Or in a future core spell tome?
These are the questions that are preventing me from buying more product. I will probably just hold off until they reveal what their plans are.
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understandable. although i am picking up my second core set this weekend. im sure lash of hellfire will be reprinted somewhere, the question is how patient are you? it is not likely to be in a mage expansion and i have heard nothing official on a release date for a new spell tome
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Since this has not been responded to officially yet I am posting a request in the MODs forum.
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Thank you sir :side:
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Thank you sir :side:
Thank me with Karma. :P some how I started the week at 15 and ended up at 0.
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Done :)
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Thanks :cheer:
BTW 300th post
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Thanks Shadow! Great questions guys.
Mage wars was made from the ground up by gamers for gamers. We did not want to be collectible, and wanted to be a very affordable game for everyone. We truly do not want players having to buy anything extra. And, if you do, we want to make it efficient and affordable.
We realize there is a growing demand for more copies of some of the cards. We are working hard on the best, most practical solution. Let me give you some background information, and then please comment and give us your opinion.
When we designed the Core Spell Tome we put a copy of 104 unique spells in there, with only 6 duplications of very common spells.
The main game has 322 spells, of which 174 are unique. This means the Core Spell Tome does not contain 70 of the main game spells.
Because cards are printed in sheets of 110, we could only include 110 cards total. The choices were extremely tough! In the end, we chose to not duplicate anything Legendary or Epic, as well as some of the bigger more expensive spells, and also many equipment items, of which you could only have 1 in play at a time. Extra Fireball or extra Staff of Asyra?!
Here are a few solutions we are looking at, and we'd love your thoughts on this:
2nd Core Spell Tome
This new Core Spell Tome has the other 70 spells not included in the first tome (1 copy of each). Then, it would have 40 other spells, which would be duplicated by the first spell tome, and we would probably select additional copies of the most common spells to help beef those up better.
In this manner, if you bought both tomes, you'd have an extra copy of every spell in the game, plus 2-3 copies of the most common cards.
If the demand is there, we could put this together and have it in stores in 6-8 weeks. Printing here in the USA really helps! (Otherwise this product would be 3 months away.)
Single Spells Shop
We could setup a single spell shop on our website, allowing players to buy just the cards they need. In order to cover the costs of the shop (with a physical location and labor to package orders) the cards would naturally cost more than if you bought 110 at a time in a Core Spell Tome. However, the advantage would be you could buy just the ones you want/need and keep the total cost down.
This shop would more than likely take up to 3 months to setup - we'd be looking at January 2013.
As much as possible we want to sell through, work through, and support the game stores. We could sell huge spell packs to retailers who also want to establish a singles shop in their store, so they could do this affordably.
Mage Booster Tome
We could produce a separate tome for each Mage. This tome has all the spells that Mage would typically want to use, with lots of copies of the level one spells. For example, the Warlock pack would ensure you'd have enough spells, so that with the main game, you'd have 4 Fireballs, 6 Flameblasts, 6 Firebarand Imps, and 2 Hellfire Lashes, etc.
Players could get everything they want and need for one Mage. The problem with this option is that there are 4 separate products here, which are a lot for players to purchase and collect, if they want to boost all the Mages.
Also, we are a little concerned that retailers may not want 4 separate SKUs on their shelves, which may make this an online only product. This goes against our "sell through the retailer plan", but is still worth considering if the player demand is in this direction.
Like the 2nd Core Spell Tome, we could have these available in 6-8 weeks.
Thanks in advance for your input and suggestions!
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that is a tough one. i like all 3 ideas to be honest with you.
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Now you understand why I could not be more forthcoming about this. This is some of what we have been talking about for a few months now. Since about April / May. Even picking set cards was a tough call.
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Thank you very much for the indepth response Arcanus. I really like how responsive the developers of this game have been thus far.
As far as the options you presented go, it's a tough one, like Klaxas said, they are all good. I think the 2nd Core Spell Tome is probably the most versitle and cost effective method for everyone, but I really like the idea of mage specific packs.
My vote would be to go with the 2nd Core Spell Tome. That way with two purchases beyond the base set you get duplicate copies of all spells in the game plus extras.
By the way, I'm not sure why this is, but maybe you can answer this as well Arcanus. I bought the Core Spell Tome from my local game store, but it cost $30. I asked him why it cost so much, when it's only $20 online, and he said that he paid $20 from the distributor himself. At first I thought it was just an online only product and the distributors were paying full price, but when I read your comment about your plan to "sell through the retailer" I was a bit confused. Do you have any insight on why there is such a cost difference for that product between online sales and my local game store?
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Arcanus - I am relieved that you guys realize your current marketing/packaging mechanic isn't up to what all players would desire. As players, we realize that it may take some time to affordably get all the cards but, if we know it's in the works, waiting is a decent option.
I would personally vote against an online singles store. Every dollar I spend online is one less dollar I spend in my FLGS. Who is promoting gaming in my area? The FLGS promotes play and host events. If I spend less money there then I feel like, as a player, I am ripping them off. If there is something they can order (a new spell tome for instance) then I am more likely to buy it through them.
I think it's cool that you are looking at different ways to off set the cost for different players. I think both a second spell tome (and third and so forth until you get everyone) and a mage specific tome are good ideas. What I want, as a player, is a way to get all the cards I need to possibly build every deck without getting extras of cards I don't need. As it stands now you printed 5 blocks in the base set and then 2 in the Spell Tome. There is already one card I own that I have no use for.
Is it more economical for you as a company to squeeze all of Dark Magic(as an example) in to one package? I am fairly new to the game so I am not positive on all the distributions of cards through out the sets and how many are missing from each school of magic in order to make completely full sets.
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I'm for the second core tome. No for singles. I think the guiding thought should be that if I buy all three of the products: base, first, and second, I can make all four Mage decks. Or, at least 90+% without changing cards around.
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One more for second spell tome. Also i like the idea for mage specific tomes, but i think they have to come i little bit later after more mages has been released.
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I'm for a second core spell tome too, if retailers want to sell singles they can break up the two spell tomes and have copies of everything.
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Well my opinion is (and ive mentioned it in another post, my apologies) about having 90% of a box is pre set and the last 10% players choose what spells they want or something.
Anywho, there will inevitably be an online store for singles as all card games generally go that route. However there could be a special section on the online store for those that have signed up to list the spells that they would like to sell and could set their own prices, with a little extra for AW ;)
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i cant say for sure. but i am pretty sure most of the cards will be reprinted in expansions in the future. the question is when....
Maybe they go the Game of Thrones (fantasy flight LCG) route, where they reprint cards, but only after the original production of the chapter pack that card came in is sold out across the board from every distributor. :S
I hope they do release things and re-release things with some frequency.
That said, while I know I want to add more copies of certain things to my decks, I also think that new things coming out is better than reprints of old things. I know for a fact there is at least 1 company out there already selling singles of cards, so you never know there might eventually be a flourishing secondary market for this game, like there is for lots of other games. As long as you're able to find the cards you need without having to lay out the $$$ for a whole new base set I think I'd prefer new cards to old cards for the immediate future, but that's just me, maybe?
Basically, I get a lot more stoked over new cards (and am thus much more likely to buy the whole release) than if they do, like, half new cards and half reprints, because then I'm more likely to want to piecemeal my collection through a secondary market dealer than buy from Arcane Wonders the whole set.
Then again, if AW sells out of the base set entirely, and you can't get it anymore, then that would also go for the secondary market, and so NO ONE would be able to get it, and at that point I'd be thrilled to see reprints. Haha...it's a see-saw.
-nihil
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By the way, I'm not sure why this is, but maybe you can answer this as well Arcanus. I bought the Core Spell Tome from my local game store, but it cost $30. I asked him why it cost so much, when it's only $20 online, and he said that he paid $20 from the distributor himself. At first I thought it was just an online only product and the distributors were paying full price, but when I read your comment about your plan to "sell through the retailer" I was a bit confused. Do you have any insight on why there is such a cost difference for that product between online sales and my local game store?
Hello Koz, sorry for the delayed response. That is weird! We sell the Core Spell Tome to ALL distributors for $8. That is our standard price worldwide. They, in turn, sell it to retailers for $10 (25% markup). We sell to the 8 largest distributors in the USA. Retailers should be able to buy the Core Spell Tome from any USA distributor for $10. Retailers in turn, double the price to $20 when they sell to customers. Those margins are standard throughout the industry.
If your retailer pal would like to contact us, our phone is 972-429-4791. If a distributor is unfairly marking something up we can take care of that very quickly! :)
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By the way, I'm not sure why this is, but maybe you can answer this as well Arcanus. I bought the Core Spell Tome from my local game store, but it cost $30. I asked him why it cost so much, when it's only $20 online, and he said that he paid $20 from the distributor himself. At first I thought it was just an online only product and the distributors were paying full price, but when I read your comment about your plan to "sell through the retailer" I was a bit confused. Do you have any insight on why there is such a cost difference for that product between online sales and my local game store?
Hello Koz, sorry for the delayed response. That is weird! We sell the Core Spell Tome to ALL distributors for $8. That is our standard price worldwide. They, in turn, sell it to retailers for $10 (25% markup). We sell to the 8 largest distributors in the USA. Retailers should be able to buy the Core Spell Tome from any USA distributor for $10. Retailers in turn, double the price to $20 when they sell to customers. Those margins are standard throughout the industry.
If your retailer pal would like to contact us, our phone is 972-429-4791. If a distributor is unfairly marking something up we can take care of that very quickly! :)
I can already see Byran getting this Chain Lightning ready. :)
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By the way, I'm not sure why this is, but maybe you can answer this as well Arcanus. I bought the Core Spell Tome from my local game store, but it cost $30. I asked him why it cost so much, when it's only $20 online, and he said that he paid $20 from the distributor himself. At first I thought it was just an online only product and the distributors were paying full price, but when I read your comment about your plan to "sell through the retailer" I was a bit confused. Do you have any insight on why there is such a cost difference for that product between online sales and my local game store?
Hello Koz, sorry for the delayed response. That is weird! We sell the Core Spell Tome to ALL distributors for $8. That is our standard price worldwide. They, in turn, sell it to retailers for $10 (25% markup). We sell to the 8 largest distributors in the USA. Retailers should be able to buy the Core Spell Tome from any USA distributor for $10. Retailers in turn, double the price to $20 when they sell to customers. Those margins are standard throughout the industry.
If your retailer pal would like to contact us, our phone is 972-429-4791. If a distributor is unfairly marking something up we can take care of that very quickly! :)
Thank you very much for the honest and straight forward response. Very refreshing for a game company (you guys remind me of AEG with your frankness, and they are a company that I love). I will pass this info along to my local store owner and see what the deal is. He is a long time friend of mine so I know he was telling me straight when he said how much his cost was on the product.
Thanks again!
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I'd definitely like to have the 2nd Core Spell Tome. The Mage Booster Tomes also sound good. Maybe you could combine two of them and make them bigger. Like release only 3: Beastmaster-Warlock, Wizard-Priestess and one for the first expansion if needed.
Singles sound good but only as the last priority.
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I think it depends a lot on individual pricing. I like the idea of grouping by schools myself. I'd pay 5-8$ for a copy of all spells in a given school.
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Well I would just like to say that I am really glad that people shared their views on this thread. Whether because of it or not, I cannot say but the MW team has put up a survey on their facebook page about how you would like to address obtaining additional cards. So head over there and make your opinion count! :)
Here's the link to the page:
https://www.facebook.com/MageWars
If you have not already done so please take the survey.
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I took the survey and believe IMHO the Spell Tomes are the way to go for the good of all, especially with the game still so new on the market.
As both a gamer and collectorcompletest, I understand that my need to "have it all" is my choice and will cost me more in the longrun than say someone who is satisfied with the playing the game "as is" out of the box. I do not expect AW or my FLGS to take lossesmake concessions to fulfill my OCD needs.
AL has gone above and beyond to provide a fun, engaging game, out of the box and at a good value.
I would rather purchase a Tome with a few extras I don't need, than to go the singles path. There is way too much labor involved for AL to try and take that on. Although I love the idea of the Mage specific Packs, I do not view this as a good business model in terms of production/sales. AL may have data from play tests, but for an FLGS, it is too hard to project the numbers to order based on popularity of mages.Stores hate to get burned on dead SKUs.
It is also my belief that most gamers prefer to see new releases of new product more often than repackaging of already available product.
I already plan on purchasing a second base game just so I can have a second set of the mages to allow for Warlock vs Warlock battles! This is again my choice, but is not necessary for someone to enjoy the game.
Sorry if I started to ramble...I'll shut up for now.
Thanks,guys!
Chris
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I posted a comment here (http://magewars.com/jsite/forum/player-feedback-and-suggestions/1101-card-distribution-in-future-products#1837) and thought I should cross post it on this thread, since they are both essentially about the same topic.
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you are correct they are very close to the same
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Hey guys,
I posted something similar in another thread, but I wanted to let you guys know that we listened to your feedback and we're happy to announce that the Core Spell Tome 2 is now out and shipping to distributors as they order it. Be sure to let your retailers know that you want a copy in. We can't tell you how much it means to have fans that so willingly communicate honest feedback with us. We're a game company for gamers by gamers and we really want you to know that we listen to your feedback and we act on it. You guys wanted another CST to get more of the spells you wanted, and as soon as we could get it through production, you've got it! Between the CST1 and CST2 is now every card currently out. Thanks again for being such an awesome fanbase!
Edit: sorry, forgot the link to the article! http://magewars.com/jsite/jnews/lists/latest-news/2012-december/item/90-announcing-the-core-spell-tome-2
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Wow, this is out now? Nice! Didn't realize it was actually done, thought it was being announced as in production. Great work guys, that was a very quick response. Can't wait to get my hands on it :)
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is there a card list anywhere showing the quantities for each card in the CST2 packs? similar to the lists which have been put out for the Core and CST1 packs?
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Big time: http://magewars.com/jsite/downloads
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excellent, thank you!