Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Werekingdom on November 22, 2016, 07:31:19 PM
-
Best opening for: Druid
(I'll try to keep this this forum updated from your feedback)
For the Druid I'm Going to assume that only the vine tree and mohktari tree are used. (if you can make a case for the Samara Tree then feel free to say it. I just can't see the advantage of the Samara over the other tree's.)
Vine Tree (Classic)
T1 (19): Vine Tree -9, Mana crystal -5,
T2 (16): Vine token from tree -1, Enchantment ring -2, FD enchantment -1 OR Creature -7 or less, Thornlasher -(6) from tree (middle zone for zone control),
-More vines with the vine tree
-Best zone control
-Most versatile tree
-Hydro immune: creatures and conjurations
-Rooted (immune: Push and Slam)
-Tanglevines!!! (For the guys that know my style of play, you know this is huge!)
-In school to nature creatures (without pecks or discounts)
-Regen: you don't need armor when you have a tree (and maybe Barkskin)
-More actions with the spawnpoint (One of the best style of decks to use Meditation Amulet)
Bad:
-Weak vs fire
-Predictably
-Rooted / Lack Mobility (uproot)
-Little Armor on Plants (only plants with armor is Kralathor and Togorah [and Togorah is not a vine creature])
-High spell book points for weak vine creatures
Mohktari Tree
T1 (19): Mohktari Tree -8, Mana crystal -5,
T2 (17): Enchantment ring OR FD enchantment -2, Creature (usually animal) -15 or less,
-More armor on tree (3 with tree bound instead of 2 with the vine tree)
-Animal heavy decks: More mobility, more versatile, better options
-Great for Range decks (stay in the Mohktari Tree zone and you get Regen and Lifebound without any enchantments)
-Ability to use creatures the Druid or Beastmaster would never normally use: Wolf Spider, Lighting Beetle, Togorah, ect. (insects, non-vine plants and other nature non-animal creatures)
Bad:
-No spawnpoint
-Tend to have closer to the middle to use Regen ability on creatures (more likely to be attacked)
-Lose some zone control power (less vines)
-Lose mana with Mohtari vs Vine tree
-Lack of actions (feels like you always trying to catch up, at least until you get creature superiority [Regen tree])
-
I have had success with the Samara Tree, yes its not as good as the Vine Tree, but it is still a viable option. It is maybe a bit slower than the Vine tree. My usual opening is something like:
Turn 1: 19 mana deploy vine marker in same zone, QC Samara Tree and tree bond, main phase cast Tataree.
Turn 2: 16 mana and one on Tree. Deploy vine marker in adjacent zone. Deploy Pod on first vine marker. QC meditation amulet. main phase cast meditate. Tataree add one mana to pod.
Turn 3: 23 mana, one on tree and two on pod. deploy vine marker. deploy pod using a vine marker. QC either Druids Leaf Ring/ Life tree (if playing Necro or low creature build). main phase. Tataree to put a mana on pod in starting zone. 17/10 mana cast face down nulify on self.
Turn 4: lets say we cast the ring. 27 mana one on tree, three on one pod, one on other. deploy vine marker. deploy pod using a vine marker. At this point I can cast anything in the book
As you can see this build generates mana pretty quick. I know the pods are fragile but they are cheap and have cantrip so not an issue and with Tataree you can sprinkle some magic and add mana to the pods. If the opponent concentrates on killing your pods, then you can hard cast what plants you need to kill them and if not let your garden flourish.
This can be tweaked against a rush build, without being too disruptive.
As I said its slower than the Vine tree and still susceptible to fire, but i like it as its something different.
-
I always open Vine Tree and Battleforge...
-
I would say that you are correct in assuming that the first turn requires the druid casting a tree. The buffs this gives you for the cost of a tree is something you can never pass up. The question then becomes which tree?
I personally would say that the Vine Tree is the stronger candidate. It is an actual spawnpoint that is not limited to a single card. It spreads your vine markers quicker and allows you to spawn creatures without moving yourself.
Why not Mohktari?
The Mohktari tree gives your creatures regenerate, but your plants have that anyway; it has regenerate 2 itself (all the trees have this), and as long as you stay in range it gives you regen 2 as well. Tbh I toyed with this as a secondary tree to make a grove turtle druid, due to it lacking zone exclusive. However not as a primary tree.
Why not Samara?
In my opinion seedling pod says, add 3 mana to a creatures mana cost and delay the casting by 3 turns. Sure it can cast these conjugations but ONLY these. so this seriously restricts what it can cast and gives you more chance of having a stack of mana chips on this conjugation. This is slower and against rush decks it just seems too slow and an unnecessary cog in the druid machine.
-
I have had success with the Samara Tree, yes its not as good as the Vine Tree, but it is still a viable option. It is maybe a bit slower than the Vine tree. My usual opening is something like:
Turn 1: 19 mana deploy vine marker in same zone, QC Samara Tree and tree bond, main phase cast Tataree.
Turn 2: 16 mana and one on Tree. Deploy vine marker in adjacent zone. Deploy Pod on first vine marker. QC meditation amulet. main phase cast meditate. Tataree add one mana to pod.
Turn 3: 23 mana, one on tree and two on pod. deploy vine marker. deploy pod using a vine marker. QC either Druids Leaf Ring/ Life tree (if playing Necro or low creature build). main phase. Tataree to put a mana on pod in starting zone. 17/10 mana cast face down nulify on self.
Turn 4: lets say we cast the ring. 27 mana one on tree, three on one pod, one on other. deploy vine marker. deploy pod using a vine marker. At this point I can cast anything in the book
As you can see this build generates mana pretty quick. I know the pods are fragile but they are cheap and have cantrip so not an issue and with Tataree you can sprinkle some magic and add mana to the pods. If the opponent concentrates on killing your pods, then you can hard cast what plants you need to kill them and if not let your garden flourish.
This can be tweaked against a rush build, without being too disruptive.
As I said its slower than the Vine tree and still susceptible to fire, but i like it as its something different.
I have tried a opening similar to your opening. When playing against a non-competitive deck it works, otherwise it seems to fail on it's face. (it's definitely a mana superiority, which works if you can manage the damage early on in the game).
-
Samara Tree openings can be very strong in Domination mode games. The Orb Guardians act as protectors for the Seedling Pods rising up at their feet. It also takes precious actions to destroy them that are not used to win the race for an orb or two. So they can be excellent ways to flood the arena with mana generating spawnpoints that require the opponent to lose ground in the race for orbs when they spend actions to kill them.
-
Im going to give the GW Wizard opening a try as a Druid.
10 20
Arcane Ring 2
Mana Crystal 4
11 25
9 19
Druid Leaf Ring 2
Mana Flower 4
10 23
Even if Druid Leaf Ring isnt as usefull as Arcane Ring its an interesting opening. Having a lot of mana early should give you more options early on.
-
I've tried a lot of different openers.
I've found that Vine Tree is my tree of choice and is always one of my actions in turn 1.
When it comes to my second spell, I've run with both Mana flower(why mana crystal?), leaf ring and even tried to spice it up a bit with meditation amulet.
It all depends on your book, but my choice is mainly to start with vine tree and mana flower. It's a stable opener for me since it doesn't really show any intention of what I'm doing.
The ring is really good when you want to build up a strong early economy, which can build momentum with the vine creatures being cheap and being able to spawn two creatures in a round, deploying + full action, to catch people off guard is always a nice play to do.
I used to run mediation amulet for a while to punish greedy builds by having my vine tree deploy vine creatures, me meditating, and gain a big momentum with the extra dice my creatures would bring to the table, especially when they do not have a deploy point.
I'd say there is never a "best opener" since it all depends on your opponents deck and your own, but If I would have to nominate an opener as the strongest, mana flower + vine tree would be my choice.
-
[mwcard=MW1C13]Fellella, Pixie Familiar[/mwcard] deserves to get mentioned as well :)
Can´t go wrong with Flower and Vine Tree, but if i run Fellella i would always go for ini, and then play her round 1 vs another nature mage.
-
Im going to give the GW Wizard opening a try as a Druid.
10 20
Arcane Ring 2
Mana Crystal 4
Arcane Ring is Wizard only...
-
Im going to give the GW Wizard opening a try as a Druid.
10 20
Arcane Ring 2
Mana Crystal 4
Arcane Ring is Wizard only...
Yes i know that.
Just first time i saw it was GW playing a Wizard so he had 25 mana at round 2.
If you try to do the "same thing" as a Druid it would be Druid Leaf Ring + Mana Flower i round 1.
"Only" leaves you at 23 mana at round 2.
And even if Leaf Ring don´t give a discount quite like Arcane Ring, you can use it for either a Mana Flower or a Plant Creature each round. At least in the early rounds.
I just think its worth trying.
And as a sidenote i try to mix things up a little, so i don´t get to predictable.
It shouldnt be good, if your opponent know exactly what you are going to do in advance.
-
[mwcard=MW1C13]Fellella, Pixie Familiar[/mwcard] deserves to get mentioned as well :)
Can´t go wrong with Flower and Vine Tree, but if i run Fellella i would always go for ini, and then play her round 1 vs another nature mage.
Thanks for mentioning Pixie Familiar, I haven't seen her in such a long time that I forgot the Pixie Familiar opening.
I think the reason you don't see her that often is because she cost 12 mana (which is about normal for a familiar), the nature school just has so many great creatures that 12 mana seems like a lot for her.
In any other school she would an auto included, just not the nature school.
-
Im going to give the GW Wizard opening a try as a Druid......... Even if Druid Leaf Ring isnt as usefull as Arcane Ring its an interesting opening. Having a lot of mana early should give you more options early on.
I like the idea of Druid Leaf Ring and Mana Flower or Tree. I tend to run a lot of tanglevines, so I can cast the tanglevines (with the discount) and the Tree could cast the creatures, this would make the Druid much more mobile.
Great opening
-
I'm with werekingdom on this one. My default druid opener is druids leaf ring, vine tree. 4 mana tanglevines are nothing to sneeze at. Besides that there are a ton of awesome plant spells that i don't mind mage casting, like corrosive orchid, nightshade lotus, wall of thorns (making the druid one of two mages who can do the WoT force push combo for 10 mana), stranglevine etc.
The druid is a freaking powerhouse, and casting control spells from a full board away is insane. Any mana economy she can shake up is worth it, but make sure you don't over commit to mana. That's why an early tree and ring or flower and ring is such an attractive prospect.
-
Samara Tree openings can be very strong in Domination mode games. The Orb Guardians act as protectors for the Seedling Pods rising up at their feet. It also takes precious actions to destroy them that are not used to win the race for an orb or two. So they can be excellent ways to flood the arena with mana generating spawnpoints that require the opponent to lose ground in the race for orbs when they spend actions to kill them.
An enemy creature cannot protect a friendly creature or conjuration by guarding. Can it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
An enemy creature cannot protect a friendly creature or conjuration by guarding. Can it?
SS'laks are Neutral Creatures, not Enemy, they Guard vs everything.
-
I'm not sure about this since I rarely ever play domination, but I'd say Vulcan is correct here.
If he is not, then the rules about multiplayer guarding should be adjusted.
-
An enemy creature cannot protect a friendly creature or conjuration by guarding. Can it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Back when a question was raised regarding waking up your own sleeping creature by attacking it was ruled that you could not attack your own creatures with a melee attack if an enemy creature is guarding in the zone.
The exception being that a creature can always melee attack itself or an object attached to itself (tanglevine) even though there is an enemy creature guarding in the zone.
I'm not sure how neutrals work - my guess is they are the same as enemy.
-
An enemy creature cannot protect a friendly creature or conjuration by guarding. Can it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Back when a question was raised regarding waking up your own sleeping creature by attacking it was ruled that you could not attack your own creatures with a melee attack if an enemy creature is guarding in the zone.
The exception being that a creature can always melee attack itself or an object attached to itself (tanglevine) even though there is an enemy creature guarding in the zone.
I'm not sure how neutrals work - my guess is they are the same as enemy.
See Domination rules page 8. Guardians are treated as "enemies" by all players and creatures in the game. There is no "neutral" players or creatures in the current rule set.
The Guard action provides an effect called Protect the Zone which requires creatures to melee attack an enemy guard in a zone before any other objects.
-
An enemy creature cannot protect a friendly creature or conjuration by guarding. Can it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Back when a question was raised regarding waking up your own sleeping creature by attacking it was ruled that you could not attack your own creatures with a melee attack if an enemy creature is guarding in the zone.
The exception being that a creature can always melee attack itself or an object attached to itself (tanglevine) even though there is an enemy creature guarding in the zone.
I'm not sure how neutrals work - my guess is they are the same as enemy.
See Domination rules page 8. Guardians are treated as "enemies" by all players and creatures in the game. There is no "neutral" players or creatures in the current rule set.
The Guard action provides an effect called Protect the Zone which requires creatures to melee attack an enemy guard in a zone before any other objects.
Before any other objects or before any other enemy objects? I'm pretty sure that if you have a creature guarding a zone and an enemy creature is in that zone, then you're still allowed to attack that enemy creature because the guard is friendly. Why would your own creatures guarding a zone prevent you from melee attacking enemy creatures in that same zone?
-
He did say "enemy guard" and is absolutely correct.
Orb Guardians are enemies for All players and so must be dealt with before attacking a non-guarding enemy object.
-
He did say "enemy guard" and is absolutely correct.
Orb Guardians are enemies for All players and so must be dealt with before attacking a non-guarding enemy object.
I see. So even if the two enemy creature are also enemies of each other, the friendly creature can only attack the one that is guarding. That means that in domination, a mage can avoid being rushed by hiding behind an orb guardian. And in free for all, a mage can protect an enemy mage from the other enemy mage's melee attacks by guarding. That actually makes a lot more sense to me now that I think about it. Why wouldn't you guard an enemy mage who you were temporarily allied with?
Hmm, I vaguely remember reading that orb guardians guard the orb not the zone...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Hmm, I vaguely remember reading that orb guardians guard the orb not the zone...
They do not. But as long as they live the orbs in the zone cannot be touched.
-
Hmm, I vaguely remember reading that orb guardians guard the orb not the zone...
They do not. But as long as they live the orbs in the zone cannot be touched.
So then enemy guarding orb guardians do protect friendly non-guarding creatures in their zone!
Maybe it's possible to turtle in domination after all?
-
from BGD rulebook:
V’Tar Orb guardians are not controlled by any Mage and do not have an action marker or
an Action Phase. They are treated as “enemies” by all players and creatures in the game.
No creature or Mage can attempt to touch (melee attack) a V’Tar Orb as long as its
guardian is still in play. So, if you wish to take control of a V’Tar Orb, you must destroy
all of its guardians first
So... Sslaks with guard do prevent both players from melee attacking each other in that zone.
Sslaks must die before you can to the Orb - guard marker or not.
Atleast this is how i think it is... i havent played BGD.
-
Sorry I'm late. Thought this was a thread about Druid openings, so it wasn't on my radar.
I play a fair bit of Domination - more than Arena lately.
Sslaks guard everything in the zone... as long as they have a Guard marker. Remember, they only get 1 guard marker each round. Once that Guard marker is gone, anything in the zone EXCEPT THE ORB is free game. Of course, you may need to heed other creautres with Guard markers, Bloodthirsty rules, etc, but basically the Sslak is only on guard until it's been hit or somebody uses Knockdown or Elusive creatures or uses Shrink on the Sslak, Ranged attacks, Zone attacks (very popular in creature-heavy Domination; Firestorm is a popular finisher in our meta), etc. There are lots of ways around a Sslak, as with any guard.
Also, I wouldn't say that turtling is a viable strategy in Domination. Sure, you might have a slightly easier time n not dying in Domination, but generally if you turtle, you also abandon the orbs which makes them easy to steal, and you'll lose on V'tar.
-
Sorry I'm late. Thought this was a thread about Druid openings, so it wasn't on my radar.
I play a fair bit of Domination - more than Arena lately.
Sslaks guard everything in the zone... as long as they have a Guard marker. Remember, they only get 1 guard marker each round. Once that Guard marker is gone, anything in the zone EXCEPT THE ORB is free game. Of course, you may need to heed other creautres with Guard markers, Bloodthirsty rules, etc, but basically the Sslak is only on guard until it's been hit or somebody uses Knockdown or Elusive creatures or uses Shrink on the Sslak, Ranged attacks, Zone attacks (very popular in creature-heavy Domination; Firestorm is a popular finisher in our meta), etc. There are lots of ways around a Sslak, as with any guard.
Also, I wouldn't say that turtling is a viable strategy in Domination. Sure, you might have a slightly easier time n not dying in Domination, but generally if you turtle, you also abandon the orbs which makes them easy to steal, and you'll lose on V'tar.
Sslaks are unmovable. Knockdown cannot affect unmovable creatures. Furthermore I'm quite certain that sslaks are guarding ALL the time, not just once per round.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Samara Tree openings can be very strong in Domination mode games. The Orb Guardians act as protectors for the Seedling Pods rising up at their feet. It also takes precious actions to destroy them that are not used to win the race for an orb or two. So they can be excellent ways to flood the arena with mana generating spawnpoints that require the opponent to lose ground in the race for orbs when they spend actions to kill them.
An enemy creature cannot protect a friendly creature or conjuration by guarding. Can it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It can protect you conjurations. If a creature is guarding then you must attack the guard before the seedpod. it would also protect your creatures but that is a two edged sword, since if you wanted to melee atk then you would have to atk any guards first.
-
Furthermore I'm quite certain that sslaks are guarding ALL the time, not just once per round.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They are not. look it up in the rulebook. During setup and upkeep they get a guard marker.
-
Furthermore I'm quite certain that sslaks are guarding ALL the time, not just once per round.
No - they have a normal Guard marker, however you can't attack an orb when a Ss'lak is present, regardless of whether it's guarding or not - that's the confusion.
-
Furthermore I'm quite certain that sslaks are guarding ALL the time, not just once per round.
No - they have a normal Guard marker, however you can't attack an orb when a Ss'lak is present, regardless of whether it's guarding or not - that's the confusion.
I remember the rule as Guardians ALWAYS protect the Orbs, but only protect the zone when on guard.
-
The rule is you can't attack and activate an orb in that zone until after the Guardian is dead regardless of whether or not he's guarding.
Wasn't this a post about druid openings at one point? How'd it turn into the eccentricities of sslaks guarding zones?