Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Laddinfance on July 01, 2015, 04:01:43 PM
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Today is the first official preview for the upcoming Mage Wars: Academy. You can find the preview of the brand new Shrink, right >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/test-your-skills-shrink).
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Thank you, i have been waiting for that since it has been anounced.
This is by far my number 1 release of this year. I have high hopes. First I hope that it will be the perfect entry point for arena. Secondly, I hope it will give a wonderful game for in between. Too often time constraint was an issue, so that MW arena was left inside the box. Thirdly, I hope for many clever level 1 spells that will enrich MW arena play.
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A fun card that acts as a way to deal with intercept and reduce the threat from a powerful creature. It's cheap but you pay for the versatility with it only lasting two turns.
What I like most about Shrink is the flavor. The idea of what the card does can be clearly represented by the mechanical benefits.
Also, just like the hydra is an abomination created by wizards toying with nature, I like to think that all house cats in Etheria are just products of a bored wizard who decided to make a quick buck and sell adorable kittens.
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A shrinked angel should still be able to intercept.
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I think this is a big grey area in the rules. I think I have to agree with Schwen. But I totally understand the confusion.
Pest says "A small nuisance creature that cannot hinder enemies. Enemy creatures may ignore a Pest that is guarding to attack a different attacker" pg 8 complete codex <---- is this assumed melee only?
Intercept - "If this creature is guarding, and if a ranged attack targets a non-flying object in the same zone, this creature may redirect that ranged attack to itself, as long as it can be a legal target for that attack. TheIntercept is announced and occurs immediately after the Declare Attack Step (and before the Avoid Attack Step). It loses its guard marker at the end of the attack which it intercepts. Cannot Intercept a zone attack." pg 7. complete codex
Is ignoring an intercept a thing?
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A fun card that acts as a way to deal with intercept and reduce the threat from a powerful creature. It's cheap but you pay for the versatility with it only lasting two turns.
What I like most about Shrink is the flavor. The idea of what the card does can be clearly represented by the mechanical benefits.
Also, just like the hydra is an abomination created by wizards toying with nature, I like to think that all house cats in Etheria are just products of a bored wizard who decided to make a quick buck and sell adorable kittens.
On the one hand, I love this card for lots of reasons: flavour, temporary effect, mana cost that scales with how powerful the target is, etc. It's like a temporary Arcane [mwcard=MW1E09]Agony[/mwcard] that might be cheaper to cast, especially on low level creatures that have been buffed up (e.g. Charging [mwcard=MW1C14]Feral Bobcat[/mwcard] with [mwcard=MW1E01]Bear Strength[/mwcard] or something). And it works against Attack Spells (!) and messes with Guards, too - so it's quite a bit better and more versatile than Agony in many situations. Could be used on a Thoughtspore or Sersiryx to (partially) negate their Attack Spells, or could be used on Cerberus or a Sslak...
On the other hand, as the first spoiler from Academy, I'm a little concerned. The Academy product is designed to be a simpler, quicker, more portable and more streamlined intro into the Mage Wars universe (in comparison to Arena), and as such supposedly uses fewer key words and simpler mechanics (e.g. I was thinking no more than 2 keywords on a card, straightforward card interactions, etc). This spoiler is an Enchantment with an effect similar to putting 2 Weak condition tokens (which, as an aside, are definitely in Academy as per other spoilers that are around, e.g. the promo cards that come with Academy pre-orders) on the target that go away over time... but uses the Dissipate keyword... so instead of putting 2 Weak tokens on the target and having, say, 1 token removed each round during Upkeep, you remove Dissipate tokens and when they're gone you destroy the Enchantment. This works fine mechanically, but Dissipate is one of the rarer mechanics in Mage Wars and not as straightforward as some. OK, I concede that Dissipate isn't that hard to grasp, it's a little gamey. Also, consider putting Shrink on a creature, then hitting it with some attacks that deal out Weak tokens (from Gorgon Spearthrowers?)... so kind of doing a double-whammy, then the Shrink goes away but the Weak tokens don't.
If this were the 5th or 6th spoiler after seeing some simpler cards, I'd feel more secure that Arcane Wonders is going to get the results they want with this set. Of course, maybe simple cards wouldn't make for good previews because they're kind of boring, so they showed us something a little flashier (?).
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I think this is a big grey area in the rules. I think I have to agree with Schwen. But I totally understand the confusion.
Pest says "A small nuisance creature that cannot hinder enemies. Enemy creatures may ignore a Pest that is guarding to attack a different attacker" pg 8 complete codex <---- is this assumed melee only?
Intercept - "If this creature is guarding, and if a ranged attack targets a non-flying object in the same zone, this creature may redirect that ranged attack to itself, as long as it can be a legal target for that attack. TheIntercept is announced and occurs immediately after the Declare Attack Step (and before the Avoid Attack Step). It loses its guard marker at the end of the attack which it intercepts. Cannot Intercept a zone attack." pg 7. complete codex
Is ignoring an intercept a thing?
I think the Codex is clear here. You may ignore a Pest that is guarding and attack another creature. If that Pest has Intercept, I can still ignore it while it's guarding and attack another creature. Intercept does nothing while the creature isn't guarding, and if it's guarding and I ignore it, then I don't see why I can't ignore its Intercept keyword too (e.g. I'm ignoring it while it's guarding and attacking another creature, as per the Codex's suggestion).
*edit* To be clearer, I'm not really ignoring the Pest's "Intercept" keyword, I'm simply ignoring that it's guarding (aside from its quick attacks gaining Counterstrike), which means Intercept doesn't really do anything.
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Honestly, i felt this would be a good card to preview because it's fairly straightforward, and it's applicable to Arena as well. The next preview will certainly be a creature, and hopefully something more of what you were looking for.
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Honestly, i felt this would be a good card to preview because it's fairly straightforward, and it's applicable to Arena as well. The next preview will certainly be a creature, and hopefully something more of what you were looking for.
Don't get me wrong, it's a cool card for Arena fans - and most of us on this forum and/or reading the preview are probably Arena fans, rather than "looking for easy entry into Mage Wars universe" target audience of Academy. I just didn't expect to see the Dissipate keyword on any Academy cards, let alone the first one officially spoiled/previewed. And it makes something a Pest (which is already bringing up some rules questions) and does something similar to Weak, but without using Weak tokens... so there's actually a fair bit going on there. In many ways, it's a more complicated Agony - not something I'd expect to see in a "streamlined" version of Mage Wars.
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Honestly I think the problem is that with guard -> the attacker must attack the guard
With Intercept the defender chooses to intercept - he doesn't have too
So with pest the attacker can choose to ignore the guard, while the intercept trait has no options for the attacker.
I guess the way I am looking at it, guard and intercept have nothing to do with each other then the initial requirement to activate intercept.
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The difference is simple:
Guard is passive... Enemies have to attack the gurad first, the guard has to use its guard ability, if it is attacked.
Intercept works active. You can decide, if you want to intercept and it depends on two things: first you are guarding, second you have the intercept ability. If you are pest or not isn't important because the attacker is not attacking the guard but another target.
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The other argument is that a creature is spending its guard to redirect the attack. They're using their guard to trigger the ability, the guard that is being ignored by that creature.
I actually don't care either way, I think it's a fun debate that needs to be had.
I will say, in the end, the flavor of the the abilities suggests that the smaller creature isn't imposing enough to get in the way of the shot. However, text vs numbers often does't prevail. ;)
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I would expect that by ignoring the guard, due to the Pest trait, the intercept cannot 'trigger'. From the codex for Intercept:
..this creature may redirect that ranged attack to itself, as long as it can be a legal target for that attack.
The fact that it's guard is ignored by the attacker would make it an illegal target, hence the pest cannot 'redirect that ranged attack to itself'.
I think that it is a good counter for creatures such as [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC08]Gargoyle Sentry[/mwcard]. This guy, with [mwcard=MW1E36]Rhino Hide[/mwcard] has 6 armour when guarding and using Intercept. It's great for the defending mage and a pain for the attacking mage. So, Shrink is perfect for this situation (providing that the above is correct, of course).
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But it's not an illegal target. Pest doesn't prevent you from targeting the creature with pest, it just makes it so that you can attack something else, removing the targeting restriction that guard normally imposes.
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For me, a guarding creature concentrates on de défense of the zone by using its action guarding.
1) If it's big enough (= not pest), it will be able to force a melee attacker in the zone to attack it first
2) if a range attack targets something in the zone, it will jump on the way of the attack and take the missile (and that has nothing to do with its size)
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As interesting as a debate this is I am slightly concerned.
The reason for academy is to introduce a more simple, easier entry point for new players.
1 The wording on the card is not straight forward (dissipate key word)
2 The fact that people on the forums, who are more experienced players (including play testers), are unsure about the use of the card, suggests a new novice player is not going to be able to "jump right in" and start playing the game in such a way as Arcane Wonders had hoped for.
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Ignoring Guards in Rulebook:
If an attacking creature can ignore a guard, it may choose to melee attack a different target in the zone, and it does not have to attack the ignored guard.
Pest in Codex:
A small nuisance creature that cannot hinder enemies. Enemy creatures may ignore a Pest that is guarding to make a melee attack against another target.
Intercept in Codex:
If this creature is guarding, and if a ranged attack targets a non-flying object in the same zone, this creature may redirect that ranged attack to itself, as long as it can be a legal target for that attack.
There is no question about it. A shrinked Angel, that is on guard, may choose to intercept a ranged attack on a target in her zone. Pest and the possibility to ignore guards only concern melee attacks in that zone.
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As interesting as a debate this is I am slightly concerned.
The reason for academy is to introduce a more simple, easier entry point for new players.
1 The wording on the card is not straight forward (dissipate key word)
2 The fact that people on the forums, who are more experienced players (including play testers), are unsure about the use of the card, suggests a new novice player is not going to be able to "jump right in" and start playing the game in such a way as Arcane Wonders had hoped for.
Well, you are making assumptions after just first card is out. First is, that there is no more then one spell with dissipate, second that there is intercept in academy core set, third new players will be confused.
I am afraid that i cannot write a full scale reaction to your assumtions as a playtester because of that laser sight i am able to see just right now But players which were able to get a chance to try academy on cons were pretty happy and newcomers too :)
Ignoring Guards in Rulebook:
If an attacking creature can ignore a guard, it may choose to melee attack a different target in the zone, and it does not have to attack the ignored guard.
Pest in Codex:
A small nuisance creature that cannot hinder enemies. Enemy creatures may ignore a Pest that is guarding to make a melee attack against another target.
Intercept in Codex:
If this creature is guarding, and if a ranged attack targets a non-flying object in the same zone, this creature may redirect that ranged attack to itself, as long as it can be a legal target for that attack.
There is no question about it. A shrinked Angel, that is on guard, may choose to intercept a ranged attack on a target in her zone. Pest and the possibility to ignore guards only concern melee attacks in that zone.
Schwen need a sticker! :)
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Nice one Schwenkgott, that makes absolute sense. Good news for the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC08]Gargoyle Sentry[/mwcard] (and any other 'interceptor')!!
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Nice one Schwenkgott, that makes absolute sense. Good news for the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC08]Gargoyle Sentry[/mwcard] (and any other 'interceptor')!!
6 armor shrunken gargoyle!
Does anyone on the forums have the ability to give out banana stickers? I know Shadow did but I think he's been afk for awhile. If there's an opening to the Banana sticker stand I'll volunteer :P