Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: jacksmack on January 04, 2017, 03:40:26 AM
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How does this work if a creature loses flying when entering a zone in regards to walls, traps that only affect non-flying creatures and finally zone conjurations like bed of Urchin or Mangler Caltrops.
There can be many scenarios for this:
Maim Wings - it's easiest to reveal it before the creature leaves zone - this one should be easy.
Leviathan and Gravikor are probably similar to each other. Will the creature lose flying and get attack from Mangler? How about traps for non-flyers - are we past window to reveal?
Finally a creature can lose flying to Hydrothermal Vent (Stun)!
Will the creature then suffer additional attacks from Mangler ? Walls? and how about traps for non-flyers, can they be revealed now?
Anyone can do a breakdown of this?
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This can all be determined by observing the steps of a Move.
1. Declare Move
2. Pay Costs
3. Leaving Zone Effects
4. Walls
5. Move
6. Entering Zone Effects
The key steps here are 3, 4, and 6. Well, currently I don't think there are any Leaving Zone Effects, at least none that come to mind, but it is potentially a key step. If the flyer loses flying before step 3, then it will be subjected to any Leaving Zone Effects that affect non-Flyers. If it loses flying before step 4, then it will encounter a wall and thus either suffer a Passage Attack or be forced to cancel the move. If it loses flying before step 6 then it will be subjected to any Entering Zone Effects that affect non-Flyers.
So, that should answer your questions. Walls obviously are encountered in step 4, while everything else you mentioned (traps, Bed of Urchins, and Mangler Caltrops) happen during step 6.
With regards to the Sherean Leviathan and Gravikor, your creature changes which zone it's in during step 5 and immediately stops being affected by previous zone effects and immediately begins being affected by the new zones effects. So, if the new zone causes it to lose flying, this is when it would happen, meaning it will be subjected to all Entering Zone Effects during step 6.
The Hydrothermal Vent question is interesting as it causes you to lose Flying during the Entering Zone Effects step rather than before it. Since the Entering Zone Effects step is still in progress though, you will still have to resolve any such effects that exist. Meaning, that if you lose flying, you will become a valid target for any Entering Zone Effects that target non-Flyers and be subjected to them. Hydrothermal Vent can cause you to suffer from Bed of Urchins etc.
I hope that clears things up.
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great - thanks.
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It seems we should consider the new Trample attack as a Leave the Zone effect.
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It seems we should consider the new Trample attack as a Leave the Zone effect.
It absolutely is a Leaving Zone Effect! I had a nagging feeling that I was forgetting something. Thank you!
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On a similar note...
Cervere leaves a zone that included a Shallow Sea Swamp terrain.
Upon entering a new zone, which may or may not include enemy creatures, he regains Fast and Elusive... so he could now double move, right?
If he double-moves back to the zone he started in (e.g. with Shallow Sea Swamp), he loses Fast (e.g. gains Slow so becomes net "regular speed") and can no longer take a non-move action (e.g. attack or guard) having already taken a double-move? (This matters more if he gained a Charge bonus from Lion Savagery, etc)
If the first new zone he moves to also contains a Shallow Sea Swamp, he returns to being "regular speed" and can still attack a creature, but must attack a Guard if possible (due to losing Elusive), right? Or if he double-moves as his second action (at "regular speed") out of the second Shallow Sea Swamp into a zone without terrain, he then regains Fast/Elusive again... so can he then take a non-move action such as attack or guard (since he is Fast again)?
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I believe you're talking about Swamp rather than Shallow Sea, since the latter hinders you and doesn't affect elusive at all.
With Swamp though, all of your statements are correct. Moving out of the Swamp causes Cervere to regain the Fast trait and take advantage of it. Moving back into the same swamp would prevent an additional action because you lose the Fast trait again. And moving into a 2nd Swamp would cause you to still be without Elusive.
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Zuberi has been quite on the ball lately, so he now has 42 stickers. 42, as we all know, is the answer to the ultimate question of Life, the Universe, and everything.
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If a flyer attacks a non-flyer it loses flying itself for the duration of the attack.
Does this means it "enters the zone" and thus could be effected by various traps etc?
And if it is effected - what kind of order does different "effects" take place? (Attack, Counterstrike, "traps")
I guess this could also happen if a flyer choices to guard.
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A flyer wouldn't get hit by any attacks for attacking because it's already "entered the zone" but it will get stuck in a Shallow Sea the second it comes down to attack.
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Yeah, losing flying does not count as entering the zone.
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Just something that came up in a game today regarding Teleporting a creature to the same zone?
Does that count as entering the zone?
In the new core set rulebook it says: ..."A Teleport follows the 6 steps of an Move Action"...
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Yes, teleporting to the same zone does count as entering the zone. Thematically, would there really be much difference from teleporting into the zone from a different area? In both cases, you kind of just disappear and reappear.
Although there aren't many leave zone effects to be worried about currently, I feel obliged to mention that teleporting to the same zone ALSO counts as leaving that zone. You leave it, triggering all the leave zone effects, disappear into the void, and then reenter it triggering all of the enter zone effects.
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A Falcon that gets pushed into a zone with a shalow sea, bed of urchins and an leviatan, doesn't get hit by the bed of urchins. Correct?
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unless some combination of those effects caused the falcon to lose flying, then correct, the falcon will take no attack from the urchins
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A Falcon that gets pushed into a zone with a shalow sea, bed of urchins and an leviatan, doesn't get hit by the bed of urchins. Correct?
All is answered in post 2 made by Zuberi.
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I think this is a question that belongs here thematically: Are Flying creatures like falcons affected by the negative effect of "Shallow Sea"?
"Non-Flying, non-aquatic creatures in this zone are hindered and roll one less die when making a non-spell attack."
It is clear that they don't get hindered, but if a Flying creature makes a melee attack against a non-Flying creature, it must lose the Flying trait until the end of that attack action (Rulebook page 15) - so they also would roll one less die...?
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If they are attacking a nonflying creature, then yes. They roll one less die for exactly the reason you mentioned. Shallow sea is a really good terrain and a big reason why the Siren has such low health. People see her as very fragile, and she is without her terrain. But she basically gains aegis 1 and regenerate 1 just by standing in the water.
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A sticker for Zuberi on a clear answer! Good sleuthing everyone else, you were definitely on the right way of thinking.
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Yes, teleporting to the same zone does count as entering the zone. Thematically, would there really be much difference from teleporting into the zone from a different area? In both cases, you kind of just disappear and reappear.
Thematically is a treacherous footing IMO, because of the Entering Play <> Entering the Zone ruling. Thematically what's the difference in Teleporting into a zone vs stepping through a Gate to Voltari?
The ruling is absolutely right for play balance, but is precarious when you try and use theme to explain things.
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Yes, teleporting to the same zone does count as entering the zone. Thematically, would there really be much difference from teleporting into the zone from a different area? In both cases, you kind of just disappear and reappear.
Thematically is a treacherous footing IMO, because of the Entering Play <> Entering the Zone ruling. Thematically what's the difference in Teleporting into a zone vs stepping through a Gate to Voltari?
The ruling is absolutely right for play balance, but is precarious when you try and use theme to explain things.
The answer to your question is in the world and lore section.
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16022.0
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk
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The answer to your question is in the world and lore section.
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16022.0
There was no question, because I don't care about the answer. Theme is a pointless non-entity to me.
But you can handwave some fluff to explain anything at all.
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I agree that theme is just handwaving fluff to make people feel more comfortable with the rules. I do like to use it though to get rulings to stick in people's heads when possible, but you are right that sometimes it causes more problems than it does benefit.
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Slam would cause the Falcon to lose Flying, won't it?
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Slam would cause the Falcon to lose Flying, won't it?
Yes!
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Slam is a really misunderstood and underrated condition I feel.
New players always miss that it's removed at the start of an action, and think they have found a cheap stun, and then get disappointed when they realise it doesn't work that way, and discard it. Slam is such a useful condition in the right circumstance though (especially nullifying Defences and Flying for a round). The Slam condition is the whole reason I have Surging Wave in almost every book!