Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lord0fWinter on June 06, 2014, 12:53:34 PM
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Hello all, my unofficial review of FiF is up on my blog -->HERE<-- (http://magewars.weebly.com/general-discussion/lord0fwinters-fif-review1)
Check it out and let me know what you think!
Edit: I would like to add that this is my own personal review. I am not affiliated with Arcane Wonders in any way, aside from loving Mage Wars. I was not given a copy of this expansion to review, I am just basing this off of all the cards that have been revealed.
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Awesome write up Lord0fWinter!
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Very nice write up, one more thing on Talos, that I picked up on my last game. He is hard to enchant (being non-living) but easy to cast an incantations on. Since his 6 dice attack is a Quick Attack, a Charge + Battle Fury is a great game ender, especially since most mages are going to try and run away from him.
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Very nice. Thanks a lot for the review. A lot of thanks also for the blog. It is great.
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Thanks for the support everybody. I really do appreciate it.
Very nice write up, one more thing on Talos, that I picked up on my last game. He is hard to enchant (being non-living) but easy to cast an incantations on. Since his 6 dice attack is a Quick Attack, a Charge + Battle Fury is a great game ender, especially since most mages are going to try and run away from him.
Shh, don't reveal my strategy ;) In all seriousness though, that's a very good find. I had thought about Battle Fury individually but not combined with Charge as well. That would be awesome to do! I just want to be able to get him out. The feeling you get when bringing him into the Arena must be epic.
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I won the other day with this combo :) . In all seriousness you need to be good at playing control style books to get him out and be able to win. Your opponent will try to nick you up and then when they can no longer prevent him from coming out, will turn to rapid fire spike damage to try to take you out before he can have an effect on the game.
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Minor thing, you wrote "As I already mentioned, the two Mages included in this expansion are the alternate Warlock and the alternate Warlord" but you didn't mention it before that :P
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Minor thing, you wrote "As I already mentioned, the two Mages included in this expansion are the alternate Warlock and the alternate Warlord" but you didn't mention it before that :P
I did. "Forged in Fire (FiF from here on out), is a small expansion that takes another look at the Warlock and Warlord."
I suppose it could be a bit more clear though. I can see how that could be interpreted as taking a look at their schools of magic and not the mages themselves. I'll change it :)
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Oh wow i totally missed that line. My bad :)
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Good review LoW, overall solid points and explanations. The layout was nice, I dig the card sliders 8). I feel like the end was a bit too opinionated for my taste, but sharing your opinions is half, or more, of the reason why reviews exist so it makes sense.
The biggest thing for me is that the review sounds like it was written by someone who at least SEEMS to understand/actually plays mage wars, where in contrast, while they're popular, Tom Vasel, Joel Eddy, etc, don't sound like they have a good fundamental understanding of the game when they talk about it, and it really detracts from their review. Not the case here.
Just to hit on a few of the new cards...
I'm trying really hard to like Harshforge Monolith, but for some reason I'm having a logic block on it. I know it's going to be really good (and I'm going to use it), it can easily pay for itself in 2 turns with even a moderate quantity of enchants, but the problem I have is that upkeep +1 might not be that big of a deal, unless there's a HUGE amount of enchants out. I'm sure it'll be great anyway.
I think Conquer is the best card the Warlord is getting in this set. Battleforge and Wizard Tower are both really strong (like you mentioned) and relatively hard to deal with, and having the ability to effectively dissolve them is really strong. I also like the fact that this card will likely force more players to play more creatures, which will make Vet stronger, so this card is not only a direct buff to War Mages but an Indirect buff to Bloodwave and pretty meta changing I think.
Blood demon is awesome but I think he's going to be more situational than DPS's. Flying is obviously pretty annoying to deal with (outside of having access to certain counters) but I think the piercing +2 of the DPS is what really makes blood reaper versions of them hit so hard, whereas blood demons, while rolling the same dice essentially (1+2+3=4+2) will have more trouble with armor.
I think players should pay more attention to Infernian Scourger. Sure, there isn't much on the card, but I bet that with that counterstrike they're going to be really annoying to take down :P. I bet they see lots of play.
Oh and last thing is concerning your teleport/dispel section. There's really nothing to be done about the Warlord, or any (non wizard) mage really, paying more for dispel but hopefully this set puts lets emphasis on the absolute need for multiple copies in a book. But more importantly, I think this expansion will do more than you let on to deal with teleport. Between rolling fog, the new, easily included, earth wall, and fumble, I feel like there's a lot of good ways to deal with knowing you might get teleported. I wish rolling fog wasn't 4 points for every mage except possibly the wizard, which is ironic considering I doubt any wizard would ever use it, lol.
But more to the point, I think by the time your opponent is in a situation where teleporting you into a big creature is worthwhile, it will be pretty easy to rolling fog in the first QC step, or drop a wall if you're mana starved, or fumble his big creature. Hell, if you're REALLY mana starved you can drop Brace Yourself and be pretty okay even against multiple big attacks for only 2 mana. Between obscured, the new low cost wall, fumble, and the even lower cost brace yourself, I think the dominance of teleport might not be so strong after this expansion.
That's all just my 2 cents though. I agree with pretty much every card explanation, well thought out, and again props on the layout.
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Good review LoW, overall solid points and explanations. The layout was nice, I dig the card sliders 8). I feel like the end was a bit too opinionated for my taste, but sharing your opinions is half, or more, of the reason why reviews exist so it makes sense.
Thanks Arlemus. Yeah, opinions tend to take up large parts of reviews. Instead of filling the post with my opinion throughout, I figured I would condense it and put it at the end.
The biggest thing for me is that the review sounds like it was written by someone who at least SEEMS to understand/actually plays mage wars, where in contrast, while they're popular, Tom Vasel, Joel Eddy, etc, don't sound like they have a good fundamental understanding of the game when they talk about it, and it really detracts from their review. Not the case here.
Yeah I have huge respect for those guys and they do alot for these games publicity-wise. However, that being said, I thought the community needed a person who plays this game all the time to write some reviews and do some other stuff. That was part of the reason I made the blog in the first place. Literally most of my day is spent here on the Forums and on the blog.
Just to hit on a few of the new cards...
I'm trying really hard to like Harshforge Monolith, but for some reason I'm having a logic block on it. I know it's going to be really good (and I'm going to use it), it can easily pay for itself in 2 turns with even a moderate quantity of enchants, but the problem I have is that upkeep +1 might not be that big of a deal, unless there's a HUGE amount of enchants out. I'm sure it'll be great anyway.
Well, in my meta there is a LOT of enchantment stacking. At one time my opponents will have around like 3-5 enchantments on a single creature. In my group, at least, this card will absolutely destroy those strategies, or at least make them think twice. Same with Curse spellbooks. I think many metas will agree, maybe not to the same extreme extent though. I think it's one of the most powerful cards in here since it isn't limited to any Mage or school of magic. Even at 4 spellbook points, it's quite a powerful card.
I think Conquer is the best card the Warlord is getting in this set. Battleforge and Wizard Tower are both really strong (like you mentioned) and relatively hard to deal with, and having the ability to effectively dissolve them is really strong. I also like the fact that this card will likely force more players to play more creatures, which will make Vet stronger, so this card is not only a direct buff to War Mages but an Indirect buff to Bloodwave and pretty meta changing I think.
Agree 100% here. I think overall it's probably the best card in the set, but that's just my opinion. I'm not sure it'll force them to play more creatures, but I know for a fact that they'll have to be more careful with them. No more Wizard dropping the Tower on turn 1 in his FC.
Blood demon is awesome but I think he's going to be more situational than DPS's. Flying is obviously pretty annoying to deal with (outside of having access to certain counters) but I think the piercing +2 of the DPS is what really makes blood reaper versions of them hit so hard, whereas blood demons, while rolling the same dice essentially (1+2+3=4+2) will have more trouble with armor.
I think the DPS is an overall better Blood Reaper because he is less situational, but Blood Demons are pretty nasty on their own. I wasn't commenting on terms of him being a Blood Reaper and I think I even mentioned that the Bloodthirsty can hurt instead of help if you aren't careful.
I think players should pay more attention to Infernian Scourger. Sure, there isn't much on the card, but I bet that with that counterstrike they're going to be really annoying to take down :P. I bet they see lots of play.
Agreed. I was debating whether to take a closer look at him or not but decided not to. He's really self explanatory. Very solid level 2 Demon.
Oh and last thing is concerning your teleport/dispel section. There's really nothing to be done about the Warlord, or any (non wizard) mage really, paying more for dispel but hopefully this set puts lets emphasis on the absolute need for multiple copies in a book. But more importantly, I think this expansion will do more than you let on to deal with teleport. Between rolling fog, the new, easily included, earth wall, and fumble, I feel like there's a lot of good ways to deal with knowing you might get teleported. I wish rolling fog wasn't 4 points for every mage except possibly the wizard, which is ironic considering I doubt any wizard would ever use it, lol.
Well, perhaps someday we'll get a card from another school that does something similar to either of those. I agree somewhat, but in my opinion, teleport will still be king. There are ways to make them pay more to target you with it if you are the Warlord, but if the enemy mage is looking to teleport you, they're still going to do it.
But more to the point, I think by the time your opponent is in a situation where teleporting you into a big creature is worthwhile, it will be pretty easy to rolling fog in the first QC step, or drop a wall if you're mana starved, or fumble his big creature. Hell, if you're REALLY mana starved you can drop Brace Yourself and be pretty okay even against multiple big attacks for only 2 mana. Between obscured, the new low cost wall, fumble, and the even lower cost brace yourself, I think the dominance of teleport might not be so strong after this expansion.
This is where we disagree. You can Fumble their creature but you're still likely to be in a bad position even if they can't attack with it. They'll just do it next turn (unless you do another Fumble). I guess you could do Rolling Fog but that might mess you up as well, and it doesn't stop them completely from targeting you. They can move one closer and cast it to move you 2 zones. Not as much as the 4, but still. I see what you're saying but I just still think teleport will be one of the most important spells. Just my opinion though, and we can agree to disagree if necessary :)
That's all just my 2 cents though. I agree with pretty much every card explanation, well thought out, and again props on the layout.
Thanks again for the input :)
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Awesome review. i hate it when the reviewers mess up the rules in their explanations or playthroughs, so i'm glad you are an expert. I think your review will be the page i go to when i want to think about the new FIF cards and how they fit into my game.
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Awesome review. i hate it when the reviewers mess up the rules in their explanations or playthroughs, so i'm glad you are an expert. I think your review will be the page i go to when i want to think about the new FIF cards and how they fit into my game.
I would hardly call myself an expert, just a normal guy who loves this game very, very much :) I appreciate the sentiment though. I'm glad you have found the review informative!
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That's pretty cool Winter. I'm also looking forward to playing the new Warlord mostly cause I've never really messed with the War school much.
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Awesome review. i hate it when the reviewers mess up the rules in their explanations or playthroughs
Seconded x 1000.
I like Drive Thru Reviews taste in games, and I realize that the video reviewers have it rough in terms of editing, but geez oh man did it get painful to watch. After a while I of being facepalming I had to remind myself I was just watching to see the spoilers :P. Watching is a lot easier than reading though, and the video reviews tend to get a lot higher volume than written reviews, so that's a really good positive growth factor (as I'm sure AW recognizes). That being said, while Let's Level Up's video was a really nicely put together, but then was too slow, so it seems hard to strike the right balance between all those factors...
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Nice review, was fun to read. But ....
<The Warlord is indeed getting a much needed upgrade.>
<I don't see Wizards losing their spot as the "best" Mage. Their cheap access to Arcane staples like Teleport and Dispel, along with the powerful Wizard Tower still give them an advantage over the rest of the competition>
I disagree with you here. If you know what you do, the old warlord without the new FiF cards is very powerful. Especially veteran tokens can ruin the day of your enemy.
I dont see the wizard as the best mage at all. You can always prepare your spellbook in a way to beat other spellbooks you've seen.
After watching tons of games on octgn (where we have all the promocards available for everyone), in my opinion the priest and the beastmastress need more love, not the warlock :)
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Nice review, was fun to read. But ....
I disagree with you here. If you know what you do, the old warlord without the new FiF cards is very powerful. Especially veteran tokens can ruin the day of your enemy.
I dont see the wizard as the best mage at all. You can always prepare your spellbook in a way to beat other spellbooks you've seen.
After watching tons of games on octgn (where we have all the promocards available for everyone), in my opinion the priest and the beastmastress need more love, not the warlock :)
Well, this is where my opinion comes into play. I will say, this discussion has been had countless times, so we don't need to have it again on another thread.
However, you are completely entitled to have your own opinion, & I am actually glad you disagree. If everybody on here had the same opinion about things, this forum would be quite a boring place :)
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fantastic review!!! congratulations.
I see new cards, but im not sure if those are all the cards of F&F, if that it´s true im sad for my druid, too many power for warlord and warlock and the others mages are forgotten, specially druid, priest and beastmaster, i was waiting a new plant for my druid, and i believe i dont like this pack because warlock and warlord have now too many power and that meaning that this game become unbalanced, i like this game because all mages normally are balanced but if you put too many cards for one type of mage it´s the same that when i play Warhammer, if you didnt bought the last army normally you had more difficult to win.
please arcane wonder, dont do that!!!, your game it´s fantastic!!! dont broke it!!!
Maybe im wrong, but its my opinion and i hope dont disturb anyone.
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Dear Isel,
expansion is named Forged in Fire, not Born in Jungle. Its main protagonists are Dwarf King, not Dwarf Gardender and Warlock lady. I am very satisfied about current form of this expansion. I disagree, that Warlord and Warlock gain too much power. They just have a wide variety of tools to choose from. Thats all. If warlord win every tournament and force earth wizard into retairment, i will appologize but not know ;)
Also, stating that game is unbalanced even before FiF get into your country and onto your table is ... well... not very... thoughtful.
Schools (not mages) that are now in queuve is Water, Mind and Holy. If you check numbers of all cards, nature school is pretty big :)
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Dear Isel,
expansion is named Forged in Fire, not Born in Jungle. Its main protagonists are Dwarf King, not Dwarf Gardender and Warlock lady. I am very satisfied about current form of this expansion. I disagree, that Warlord and Warlock gain too much power. They just have a wide variety of tools to choose from. Thats all. If warlord win every tournament and force earth wizard into retairment, i will appologize but not know ;)
Also, stating that game is unbalanced even before FiF get into your country and onto your table is ... well... not very... thoughtful.
Schools (not mages) that are now in queuve is Water, Mind and Holy. If you check numbers of all cards, nature school is pretty big :)
yeahhh i know pal, but after the release of CoK that had spell for all schools, i expect something similar.
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fantastic review!!! congratulations.
I see new cards, but im not sure if those are all the cards of F&F, if that it´s true im sad for my druid, too many power for warlord and warlock and the others mages are forgotten, specially druid, priest and beastmaster, i was waiting a new plant for my druid, and i believe i dont like this pack because warlock and warlord have now too many power and that meaning that this game become unbalanced, i like this game because all mages normally are balanced but if you put too many cards for one type of mage it´s the same that when i play Warhammer, if you didnt bought the last army normally you had more difficult to win.
please arcane wonder, dont do that!!!, your game it´s fantastic!!! dont broke it!!!
I don't think FiF is about giving certain mages "too many power" but filling in gaps in their accessible card pools. In this expansion the Warlord gains a level 3 ranged creature, a level 4 non legend big, a ring to support Bloodwave, a few nice commands, etc. The Warlock finally gains a level 2 demon, another good target for blood reaper (blood demon), a few cards to support pentagram (previously unplayable), etc. The priest isn't forgotten, he's finally getting a level 2 target for holy avenger in a good body (asyran defender).
I think what AW did with this set was ask themselves which mages had the biggest gaps to fill card-wise, and did their best to fill those spots in the context of a tome expansion.
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Btw, you made a mistake when describing how vine markers work, LoW. Spells cast through a vine marker can only target at range 0-0 of that vine marker. If you destroy a vine marker to cast a tanglevine, for instance, the vine marker can only target a creature in the same zone as the destroyed vine marker was.
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Good write up! Considering we didn't send you a set to review, this is an amazing write up. Keep up the great work, it's fan sites like yours that help drive awareness of such great games and infuse others with a passion for playing! :)
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Isel i can understand where you're coming from, I figured there'd be a new plant too but ah well. However the other mages do get a little something fromt he set:
Beast Master: Lions Savagery. Words can not describe how I look forward to putting this on Cervere. Or for that matter a simple Thunderift Falcon. The Johtari Beast Master herself will benefit from it too if you go hard and up close with her instead of range sniper. This card also stacks with Bear Strength, so you can make a VERY disgusting creature.
Priestess: Asyran Defenders. A good solid Level 2 Soldier that's no joke in a scrap. It'll make a good Holy Avenger for the Priest and a good early game defender for the Priestess. Honestly she needed a good Level 2 more than anything else in my opinion.
Force Master: Yeah Disarm is a Novice spell but I honestly plan to put it on a Thoughtspore more than anything else. It saves you the effort of having to Dissolve equipment and frees you up to do other attacks. Not the best spell but still not horrible.
I don't think they're going to break the game with this set but I can understand your concerns. I would urge you to play with a few of the cards for a while and see how they work for you. The strong focus on the Warlord and Warlock is because a lot of people were clamoring for it. I'm in the "Warlords not horrible" camp but I can understand Arcane Wonders desire to give the fan base what they're wanting most. From what I understand the new Warlord was eventually going to be a new Wizard for example.
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Isel i can understand where you're coming from, I figured there'd be a new plant too but ah well. However the other mages do get a little something fromt he set:
Beast Master: Lions Savagery. Words can not describe how I look forward to putting this on Cervere. Or for that matter a simple Thunderift Falcon. The Johtari Beast Master herself will benefit from it too if you go hard and up close with her instead of range sniper. This card also stacks with Bear Strength, so you can make a VERY disgusting creature.
Priestess: Asyran Defenders. A good solid Level 2 Soldier that's no joke in a scrap. It'll make a good Holy Avenger for the Priest and a good early game defender for the Priestess. Honestly she needed a good Level 2 more than anything else in my opinion.
Force Master: Yeah Disarm is a Novice spell but I honestly plan to put it on a Thoughtspore more than anything else. It saves you the effort of having to Dissolve equipment and frees you up to do other attacks. Not the best spell but still not horrible.
I don't think they're going to break the game with this set but I can understand your concerns. I would urge you to play with a few of the cards for a while and see how they work for you. The strong focus on the Warlord and Warlock is because a lot of people were clamoring for it. I'm in the "Warlords not horrible" camp but I can understand Arcane Wonders desire to give the fan base what they're wanting most. From what I understand the new Warlord was eventually going to be a new Wizard for example.
Thanks for understand meeeeeee thanks :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
i only was waiting for a new plant for my little druid, because i´m boring for playing with the sames, druid its very good but have a poor variety of creature plants.....well i wait for the next pack, and if i saw a warlock....i put in my suitcase a little of oil for her to see the true fire!!! muahahahah xd
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I also love the druid but she is a very new mage. She will definitely get some support with the paladin vs siren expansion. Obviously siren will intro more water spells maybe even a plant or level 1 water creature.
The holy mages are getting a bigger boost than just asyran defender. People are forgetting that lots of their creatures are soldiers. Which is getting so love in FIF.
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I totally agree the Barracks is an awesome idea for Holy books as well. Lot of cool stuff in this set.
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Arent barracks warlord only?
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Arent barracks warlord only?
Yeah they are.
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Argh. Wrote Barracks. Meant Armory.
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Argh. Wrote Barracks. Meant Armory.
Makes much more sense now :D That will be fun to try out.
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Great write up. A few additional thoughts:
I think Gurmash is actually a big deal, mostly because Command spells are good but rarely worth burning a Warlord action to play. He's robust enough compared to other familiars for the cost and has quite a few options at his disposal. Well suited to the Thorgg and friends strategy now, but possibly also a player if some sort of effective weenie rush strategy emerges.
General's Signet Ring is hardly flashy, but it was a key piece of the puzzle that was sorely missing from the Warlord's arsenal. One of his few ways to gain some incremental mana advantage over the long term.
Akiro's Favor is significant because it is the only card out there (I believe) that allows re-rolls. How many times in this game do you come within 1 damage of killing something, only to have to pass the initiative and have that creature clock you for 4-5 dice despite its 1 health and be healed in the process. And then you have to waste an action to finish it off next turn, if that is even still viable. Sure, you might whiff again or you might roll awesome and never invoke it's ability, but the tempo gained and damage saved by winning an "almost, but not quite" situation is enormous. On a creature with a powerful attack, this is a very good ability to have.
Sardonyx has gotten some mixed press because of his cost, but I think you have the right of it. Unlike Talos, which takes a lot of setup, this thing comes down in the middle of the board on turn 2 for a Necro or Warlock. Unstoppable is ridiculous and justifies the price. The poison attack is lousy, but spreading finite life and piercing +2 is no joke. I believe the key to using him well, as you mention, is to just go straight to the dome and forget about other creatures. He will be such a distraction between the high health, sweeping attack, and hindering that your mage can either step back and play D or support Sardonyx with reanimate effects or combat tricks if the enemy isn't pressuring you. If he dies, who cares? The real cards to look out for, in my opinion, are stall tactics like Block, Fumble, and Reverse Damage; if these fire off, then you end up sustaining 2 damage, opponent rebuilds his mana base, and you get in no damage. That would be terrible.
Morning Star is an excellent addition to the game. It's dirt cheap and a repeatable counter to frustrating defenses. Combined with a good buff, this will hammer the Forcemaster better than most equipment.
Why the heck wasn't Ballista in this set? I can't think of a more appropriate card for the Warlord, especially given that Akiro's Hammer is so inefficient! Hope we see it soon.
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Great write up. A few additional thoughts:
I think Gurmash is actually a big deal, mostly because Command spells are good but rarely worth burning a Warlord action to play. He's robust enough compared to other familiars for the cost and has quite a few options at his disposal. Well suited to the Thorgg and friends strategy now, but possibly also a player if some sort of effective weenie rush strategy emerges.
General's Signet Ring is hardly flashy, but it was a key piece of the puzzle that was sorely missing from the Warlord's arsenal. One of his few ways to gain some incremental mana advantage over the long term.
Akiro's Favor is significant because it is the only card out there (I believe) that allows re-rolls. How many times in this game do you come within 1 damage of killing something, only to have to pass the initiative and have that creature clock you for 4-5 dice despite its 1 health and be healed in the process. And then you have to waste an action to finish it off next turn, if that is even still viable. Sure, you might whiff again or you might roll awesome and never invoke it's ability, but the tempo gained and damage saved by winning an "almost, but not quite" situation is enormous. On a creature with a powerful attack, this is a very good ability to have.
Sardonyx has gotten some mixed press because of his cost, but I think you have the right of it. Unlike Talos, which takes a lot of setup, this thing comes down in the middle of the board on turn 2 for a Necro or Warlock. Unstoppable is ridiculous and justifies the price. The poison attack is lousy, but spreading finite life and piercing +2 is no joke. I believe the key to using him well, as you mention, is to just go straight to the dome and forget about other creatures. He will be such a distraction between the high health, sweeping attack, and hindering that your mage can either step back and play D or support Sardonyx with reanimate effects or combat tricks if the enemy isn't pressuring you. If he dies, who cares? The real cards to look out for, in my opinion, are stall tactics like Block, Fumble, and Reverse Damage; if these fire off, then you end up sustaining 2 damage, opponent rebuilds his mana base, and you get in no damage. That would be terrible.
Morning Star is an excellent addition to the game. It's dirt cheap and a repeatable counter to frustrating defenses. Combined with a good buff, this will hammer the Forcemaster better than most equipment.
Why the heck wasn't Ballista in this set? I can't think of a more appropriate card for the Warlord, especially given that Akiro's Hammer is so inefficient! Hope we see it soon.
Ballista is going to need some kind of errata before it comes out. If it doesn't get errata or a card base to defend against it, there's going to be serious issues with that card, I've seen what it can do on OCTGN.
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[Ballista is going to need some kind of errata before it comes out. If it doesn't get errata or a card base to defend against it, there's going to be serious issues with that card, I've seen what it can do on OCTGN.
War mage only and unique... bam fixed.