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Author Topic: Does Flame Immunity allow you to see through a Wall of Fire?  (Read 3275 times)

BoomFrog

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Immunity
This object is immune to all attacks, damage, conditions, and effects of the
specified damage type, including critical damage and direct damage.
Cannot be targeted or affected by spells of the specified type
Quote
   Blocks   line   of   sight   (los):
This symbol indicates that the wall prevents
creatures on one side of the wall from seeing
anything on the other side. Abilities and spells
cannot target any object or zone that is on the other side
of a wall that blocks LoS. Walls never block LoS to or from
any creature with the Flying trait.
It all comes down to that tricky phrase, "Cannot be targeted or affected by spells of the specified type."  Blocking my sight certainly seems like affecting me. 

Personally I think that the designers didn't intend for immunity to interact with walls like this, but for the current card pool it seems like a good thing.  The only interaction I can think of is that flaming hellions could shoot through walls of fire.  This is 1) Awesome and 2) exactly the unique nitch that would make hellions special and maybe playable.  Currently hellions are the worst ranged attacker in the game.  Range 1-1 is crippling and at least spitting raptors have corrode which is hard to get in other ways, although I'd argue that spitting raptors are the second worst ranged attacker in the game.  Wait I forgot psylocks...  okay bump those to 2nd and 3rd, but you get my point.

The downside of this is that it would allow necromancers to see through that poison gas wall that was previewed and a mage with a one way wall might be overpowered.  But necromancer already has access to cloak of shadows so it doesn't seem too unreasonable to allow a second means of LoS disparity.  All I ask is that AW play test it a bit before saying no.  But please decide before Gencon...  :)

Cnoedel

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Re: Does Flame Immunity allow you to see through a Wall of Fire?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 09:02:54 PM »
Whoa good question O_o - but it seems counter intuitiv with corporeal Walls and "earth immune" creatures (whatever those might be :D)
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Shad0w

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Re: Does Flame Immunity allow you to see through a Wall of Fire?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 11:01:14 PM »
If a wall blocks LoS then it does not matter if you have immunity or not.
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jacksmack

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Re: Does Flame Immunity allow you to see through a Wall of Fire?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2014, 02:43:08 AM »
Dont disrespect raptors.

They got 0-1 and are awesome.
0-1 is like 5 times easier to use than 1-1.

Hellions are worthless in the hand of anything but the new warlock. I like them in her arsenal.
Put marked for death on something and they suddenly hit for 6 dice and shoot for 5 dice.

The key with hellions is to spend little to no ressources on setting up for ranged attack.
If you cant shoot, just go melee.
Also its really cool they can walk through wall of fire without taking damage.

Zuberi

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Re: Does Flame Immunity allow you to see through a Wall of Fire?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2014, 05:07:50 PM »
I would translate the part about being unable to be "affected by spells" as meaning it can not be subjected to an effect caused by the spell. Blocking line of sight is a trait of the Wall, an inherent property. It is not an effect caused by the wall.

In other words, it is the wall itself that is subject to this trait, being made opaque so you can't see through it. It is not actually doing something to the creatures in question. They just have to deal with the properties of the wall, similar to dealing with an Invisible Stalker or a Flying Creature. Such traits haven't actually affected your creatures to restrict their ability to attack, they've affected the defending creature to increase it's defense. The wall's trait doesn't reduce your ability to see, it increases it's difficulty to see through it.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 05:14:45 PM by Zuberi »

ringkichard

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Re: Does Flame Immunity allow you to see through a Wall of Fire?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2014, 09:48:57 PM »
The rules say, "A conjuration is a spell that creates an object in the arena
that remains in play until destroyed."

Which is to say that the wall object that is in play is a creation of the spell that was cast, and is not the spell itself (even though both those things are sequentially represented by the same physical card).

So while a creature with an immunity trait cannot be affected by spells of the specified type, the Wall of Earth object isn't a spell.

If wall of fire had a flame incantation-like effect when cast, in addition to creating the wall object, a creature with Flame immunity would be immune to that. But the wall blocks LoS because blocking LoS isn't an effect of the spell, it's just a trait of the object.
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Does Flame Immunity allow you to see through a Wall of Fire?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 10:23:34 PM »

The rules say, "A conjuration is a spell that creates an object in the arena
that remains in play until destroyed."

Which is to say that the wall object that is in play is a creation of the spell that was cast, and is not the spell itself (even though both those things are sequentially represented by the same physical card).

So while a creature with an immunity trait cannot be affected by spells of the specified type, the Wall of Earth object isn't a spell.

If wall of fire had a flame incantation-like effect when cast, in addition to creating the wall object, a creature with Flame immunity would be immune to that. But the wall blocks LoS because blocking LoS isn't an effect of the spell, it's just a trait of the object.

We'll said! I've been a bit annoyed by the fact that EVERYONE keeps referring to objects as spells. I feel like this fact should be taught in apprentice mode, but it isn't. So new players are accidentally taught that an object is still a spell, simply because no one ever told them that there's a difference, which leads to this kind of confusion. The difference between spells and objects is really important to keep in mind, and should be learned BEFORE learning the difference between attack traits and object traits.
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Shad0w

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Re: Does Flame Immunity allow you to see through a Wall of Fire?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 03:11:02 AM »
Kich you get a sticker.
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