Card idea: Meditate

[fas723]

Name: Meditate
Type: Incantation
Target: Mage
Action: Ful
Range: 0-0
Cost: X
Text: X is target mage base channeling. Next channeling phase target mage will channel its current channeling plus 2 one additional time.

While I'm waiting for more Domination spoliers I sitting here thinking about cards I would like to see. Here is something for those who likes Harmonize, Mana flower/crystal and amulet. You will gain mana, but loose tempo. But look out for Syphones...
Would you play it if it was available?

[sIKE]

What is the difference from the [mwcard=DNQ10]Meditation Amulet[/mwcard]?

[andy]

Perhaps I'm not understanding the card correctly.  Hypothetical situation: suppose the Wizard has 3 Mana Crystals in play (current channeling 13).  If they use this card, they pay 10.  On the following turn, do they channel 15 (their current + 2), or do they channel 28 (their current, plus current + 2 from Meditate)?

If the former is correct, then this card would basically be worthless.  I would never play it over a Mana Crystal or Harmonize.  If the latter is the intended effect, I could see it being used in the right deck (especially if it has the right subtypes and traits; e.g., it would probably be a "mana" spell with cost decreased by Arcane Ring).  I feel like you would maximize its value by over-committing to channeling effects early on.

I don't mean to hijack, but I'm curious what others think would be a fair for the following hypothetical card, which would serve a similar purpose:

Name: Black Lotus
Type: Incantation
Target: Mage
Action: Quick
Cost: 0
Trait: Novice
Text: Add X mana to target Mage's mana supply.

Basically, how much mana is 1 quick action and 1 spell point worth?  Meditation Amulet nets 2 mana after 1 quick and 2 full actions, but has the potential to keep providing more mana (especially during actions that might otherwise be used ineffectively).  Mana Crystals might net an average of 3 or 4 mana over the course of the game, but could net more and provide lasting advantage in a long game.  By contrast, this hypothetical card can only give the one-time boost.  Would you use up an early game action on this if X were only 2?  Would it completely replace Mana Crystals if X were 4+?

[fas723]

The idea with this was to get additional bennefit from your channeling investment, but suffer some in actions.
With a cost the same as your initial channeling, and a full action, the thought is that you basically loose your turn.
In the next channeling phase you get is back twofold instead.

0 flower/chrystal/harmonize -> 2 extra mana
1 flower/chrystal/harmonize -> 4 extra mana
2 flower/chrystal/harmonize -> 6 extra mana
3 flower/chrystal/harmonize -> 8 extra mana
...

Note that this will not bennefit your spawnpoints/familaries since they are not part of your "own" channeling.

@andy:
You can hijack the thread as much as you like. Your replay was awesome and something that triggers further discussion!
I would say X is very hard to determine in you example. Take a look at Meditation amulet.

Turn 1: 1 full action + 1 quick action = 3 mana => ~1.2 mana / action (tot) (if 2 FA = 3 QA)
Turn 2: 1 quick action = 6 mana => ~1.7 mana / action (cum.tot)
Turn 3: 1 quick action = 9 mana => ~2 mana / action
Turn 4: 1 quick action = 12 mana => ~2.2 mana / action

This means that X in your example should be right between 1 and 2. 1 is too low, and 2 is to high...
Make it a full action and 2 should be fine.

[ringkichard]

Perhaps I'm not understanding the card correctly.  Hypothetical situation: suppose the Wizard has 3 Mana Crystals in play (current channeling 13).  If they use this card, they pay 10.  On the following turn, do they channel 15 (their current + 2), or do they channel 28 (their current, plus current + 2 from Meditate)?

If the former is correct, then this card would basically be worthless.  I would never play it over a Mana Crystal or Harmonize.  If the latter is the intended effect, I could see it being used in the right deck (especially if it has the right subtypes and traits; e.g., it would probably be a "mana" spell with cost decreased by Arcane Ring).  I feel like you would maximize its value by over-committing to channeling effects early on.

I don't mean to hijack, but I'm curious what others think would be a fair for the following hypothetical card, which would serve a similar purpose:

Name: Black Lotus
Type: Incantation
Target: Mage
Action: Quick
Cost: 0
Trait: Novice
Text: Add X mana to target Mage's mana supply.

Basically, how much mana is 1 quick action and 1 spell point worth?  Meditation Amulet nets 2 mana after 1 quick and 2 full actions, but has the potential to keep providing more mana (especially during actions that might otherwise be used ineffectively).  Mana Crystals might net an average of 3 or 4 mana over the course of the game, but could net more and provide lasting advantage in a long game.  By contrast, this hypothetical card can only give the one-time boost.  Would you use up an early game action on this if X were only 2?  Would it completely replace Mana Crystals if X were 4+?

DON'T COMBO OPEN INSIDE

Cards like this inevitably get used in degenerate combos. They're nifty, but ultimately too dangerous to print, imo.

[andy]

This means that X in your example should be right between 1 and 2. 1 is too low, and 2 is to high...
Make it a full action and 2 should be fine.

In comparing Black Lotus to Meditation Amulet, don't forget that Meditation Amulet may keep taking actions as you use it, but it doesn't get planned during those turns.  On turns when you use Meditation Amulet, you likely planned two cards that you might need and found that you didn't need one after all, or you're in a midgame stalemate, or you've got creatures attacking so you can afford to use your Mage's action meditating, etc.  But in these situations, you were still able to plan two spells, whereas Black Lotus would take up a planned spell every time you want to use it.  I think it could probably net 3 mana without making Meditation Amulet (or Mana Crystal, or Harmonize) obsolete.

DON'T COMBO OPEN INSIDE

Cards like this inevitably get used in degenerate combos. They're nifty, but ultimately too dangerous to print, imo.

I really don't see what degenerate combos would be possible, even if X was unreasonably high.  In other games (like Magic), combos usually occur when resources can be transformed into each other in a loop that nets some benefit.  In Magic, specifically, a lot of combos do center around trying to generate mana, but that's because you can play more cards with more mana.  In Mage Wars, that's not the case.  Even if you could generate a high amount of mana, you are still limited in your actions.  There's no way to create a recurring loop in Mage Wars.

[vlad3theimpaler]

This means that X in your example should be right between 1 and 2. 1 is too low, and 2 is to high...
Make it a full action and 2 should be fine.

In comparing Black Lotus to Meditation Amulet, don't forget that Meditation Amulet may keep taking actions as you use it, but it doesn't get planned during those turns.  On turns when you use Meditation Amulet, you likely planned two cards that you might need and found that you didn't need one after all, or you're in a midgame stalemate, or you've got creatures attacking so you can afford to use your Mage's action meditating, etc.  But in these situations, you were still able to plan two spells, whereas Black Lotus would take up a planned spell every time you want to use it.  I think it could probably net 3 mana without making Meditation Amulet (or Mana Crystal, or Harmonize) obsolete.

DON'T COMBO OPEN INSIDE

Cards like this inevitably get used in degenerate combos. They're nifty, but ultimately too dangerous to print, imo.

I really don't see what degenerate combos would be possible, even if X was unreasonably high.  In other games (like Magic), combos usually occur when resources can be transformed into each other in a loop that nets some benefit.  In Magic, specifically, a lot of combos do center around trying to generate mana, but that's because you can play more cards with more mana.  In Mage Wars, that's not the case.  Even if you could generate a high amount of mana, you are still limited in your actions.  There's no way to create a recurring loop in Mage Wars.

Not a recurring loop, but with multiple spawnpoints/familiars to make use of the extra mana, you could cast a decent number of spells.
I don't think it would be anywhere close to game-breaking, but that would partially depend on the actual amount of mana generated.