I think the targeting approach to immunity is trying to get to the imperviability - take a bowl half full of water, tip a glass of water in and see the impact - yes there could be splashage etc, but the water absorbs the water... actually a better example might be squirt a stream of water from a hose with a water pistol, or get a raging fire and wave a blow torch at it... its just not having any interaction, the types are so similar they just pass each other.  So a flame creature can't block a flame attack, it just splashes through it.  A water attack on a flame creature however neutralizes it (blocks) with a bit of pain to the creature...

making stuff up a little, but I think its defensible....

I don't have this concept down much - I'm not even sure why itd be useful, so might be a limitation rather than a power (like slow). But I was interested in the idea of a slow fade, like the Cheshire cat, or a turn to smoke style dracula etc.  So for some element of the turn, the Nightmare isn't fully there, but it hasn't left either. 

It probably makes more sense as a reverse invisible, normally the Nightmare is tangible, when it moves (using the proposed teleport to sleeping creature) it becomes intangible, flip the ready marker to track this - leave the Nightmare where it is for the remainder of this turn.  During the upkeep phase move the Nightmare to a zone with a sleeping creature.  If there are no sleeping creatures during the upkeep phase the dreamlink is broken and the Nightmare stays in its current zone and takes 1 direct damage.

It might be adding complexity for little advantage or value, but I sort of liked the idea.  I also thought it would drive the people arguing about playing cards in the upkeep phase bonkers if a creature could move during the upkeep phase

It would give the opponent plenty to worry about, as if there are multiple creatures asleep, you don't know what to defend until the next upkeep and the move has resolved.  On the flip side, its still in range and may be vulnerable, but its intangible now so may be harder to hit.  It would make the ready marker teleport less powerful as the Nightmare isn't instantly safe, but still pretty strong against many attacks.  I think the health would need buffing a little so the attacker needs to weight up trying to kill it outright with a strong attack, and the Nightmare fleeing in intangible form, or playing a less strong ethereal attack that can't be dodged but less likely to kill outright.

A variant was to play a token at the proposed destination, until the upkeep phase and the movement resolves the creature is in both zones and can target (and be targeted) accordingly.

8-10 mana and 6 health seems reasonable - posted by someone earlier in the thread.  6 health is only 1 good attack (if ethereal).  8-10 mana is about 1 turn, longer if its casting sleep from the mages pool.

I prefer the teleport to sleeping creatures for the nightmare creature than flying, a bit like the blue gremlin but no distance limits.  But would need a way to lay down sleep if its to be any use.

How about if you made it slow and lumbering, resilient so it can take a hit but is easy to run away from. Its terror attack should be a powerful zone based attack (its own zone, a bit like the earth elemental or even neighboring zones (slightly lesser strength)).

I guess I was trying to imagine a large scary creature that noone wants to be left close to near the end of the round as that's when it will be most powerful.  You can try and swarm it to take it down, but theres a pretty good chance they'll die if you aren't successful.  However, even if you take it down your worst dreams will come back to haunt you again real soon.

Would it work to make the attack compulsory?  i.e. all creatures within one zone range take the pain?  That way you can't use it to guard your mage, but its very effective anti swarm or can assist a swarm from another side of the arena.
 

Xanth Nightmares did cause dreams/sleepiness (kinda)... so its not a totally new meme.

It feels like you're proposing a totally different creature... which isn't a problem, just doesnt seem a refinement and more a counter offer

Quote from: Coshade on October 15, 2015, 08:43:53 PM

This is all I can think of!

Dont worry, i have same mind block. On second place is neighbours kid

To be contributive,

Nightmare should just take advantage of sleep tokens, not cause them. I am not sure but a good nightmare never put me to sleep latly

No Etheral, No Upkeep, just Resilient or Defense 5+

Two attack bars.

1. X attack dice with Stun or Daze chance
2. 0 attack dice - Tainted 1+   -  second attack can be used only on creatures with psychic condition or spell on them.

I like things simple

Nightmare
Lv3 mind + Lv1 dark
Ethereal
Cost: 10(?) mana
6 Life
0 armor
1 channeling - may not be necessary, would limit the sleep attack without it...
Legendary
Cantrip
Upkeep 3
As a move action it can teleport to a zone with a sleeping creature. (I thought this was cool - might be even more amazing and add to resiliency if it was a once a turn ready marker power)

Quick attack: Can cast sleep
Slow attack 1: Can cast mass sleep (enemy and friendly creatures)
Can stack sleep tokens (remove 1 per attack on a sleeping creature)

Each upkeep phase every sleeping creature within 1 zone from nightmare takes 1 direct damage for each sleep token it has, then heal nightmare the same amount.

Slow attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 1+x dice, dark, etheral, X = sleeping creatures within 1 zone of the Nightmare.

The vampiric effect may be a little unnecessary as its a cantrip and 6 damage is a pretty easy kill, it might make more sense for it to just get recast... so keep the mana in the 10 range, but leave it as a little fragile.

Mass sleep might be too powerful combined with the blast, but I wasnt sure if a single sleep was sufficient?

The creature still has quite a lot of flex, but against a solo buffed mage has little it can do, so isnt a guaranteed play.

so...
with a non-psychic attack:

Nightmare blaster
3 mind + 1 dark
cost of 15 mana
incorporeal, 10 life
attack 1 (sleep): psychic, unavoidable, target non-mage, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 sleep counter on the target
attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 5 dices, etheral, to cast this attack the Nightmare blaster must be in the same zone as a sleeping creature

I was going to say the nightmare felt too fragile - one decent lightening anything and its gone, but then realised its a cantrip and it doesn't matter! genius! It has a high mana overhead to keep going and you wouldn't be popping it out every turn if the opponent was successfully blasting it....

I like the first model better than the beating them unconscious element, sleep with a slight vampiric element seems more thematic.

I still agree with the whole psychic gap against an undead swarm problem...this is a cool card, but wouldn't help that vulnerability at all.  Could you add a pillar of dark attack that is 1 dice per sleeping creating within 1 zone?  So you could even sleep your own creatures to build a lethal dark based attack useful against a swarm.  It would need decent investment to make it work, but would have a lot of versatility.

does that mean the wording should be something like remove condition tokens up to the value of the mana you paid?

Cause it reads like you don't determine the mana cost until the effect stage.  So going back to the initial question, whats the cost of a nullify etc?  Its hard to make the caster agree they were going to remove those 8 weaken tokens when they could say I'd only planned to test if you'd got a nullify on me?