Or just say that all cards not on the board/cast are 0-0 from all mages playing.

This is fab thanks Wildhorn, it definitely seems to have started the kind of discussion I was interested in reading so I appreciate your sharing.

I did think/agree that there is possibly some built in balance with using some Arena cards in academy - you've noted some of this yourself - high cost cards are going to take more mana and tempo investment and probably represent too many eggs in one basket.

I think points 2-7 make a lot of sense - 1, is perhaps covered by the above points, but I think a lot of powerful creatures also have other traits that would get them excluded.  Actually just checked these - there are only 10 (8 creatures) and most probably would stay in without this criteria so I take that back.

I wasn't sure about 8 - could you include them but note that the flying trait isn't relevant?  I was thinking that this would mean that you're probably overpaying for the creature, as Flying is a cool trait in Arena.  But someone might want one just for theme.
 
9 is probably similar - you're paying mana for a trait that you can't use.

10 seems critical as these are usually balance traits in Arena, so having them in Academy where the trait doesn't limit the creatures' effectiveness boosts their power.  I'd actually say any creature with slow or rooted should be excluded.

I must say I like the idea of being able to draw on Arena cards thematically - you're an over achiever, a bit driven, you've read ahead and/or stolen access to things you perhaps should have.  So you can play them, but the perhaps may not synergise as well, they're harder and take longer to cast, they have some easy Academy counters, or have traits that don't work in the controlled Academy setting, but if you can make it work, it will be awwwesssome!.  It would be extra fun to add some random effects, or consequences of playing higher level cards but that's perhaps over complicating it.

Quote from: Moonglow on September 01, 2015, 01:37:51 AM

Wildhorn, I'd be interested in the inclusion/exclusion criteria?  Just from an interest perspective, so like how'd you decide?

1. Exclusion of every leve 5+ creatures because more often than not, they are way too powerful.
2. Exclusion of weapons because they are also too powerful for Academy.
3. Exclusion of things with a minimum range of 1 because everything in Academy are at range 0.
4. Exclusion of things that push, pull, or teleport, because you can't really do it.
5. Exclusion of spawnpoints and familiar because they are too powerful in the context of Academy.
6. Exclusion of creatures with a normal quick attack and a strong full attack since they can always use the full attack.
7. Exclusion of walls because there is only 1 zone.
8. Do not recommend flying creatures because there is none of them in Academy so far (even ones with wings do not fly).
9. Do no recommend creatures with Fast or Charge because these traits serve no purpose in Academy.
10. Do no recommend Zombies or Plants of any sort because their Slow/Rooted traits are irrelevant in Academy.

My only dilema are Zone Exclusive conjuration. I think most of them would be ok if both players could each have 1 of them out.

There was an umm semi official comment somewhere that directly stated or implied (I can't remember which) that some arena cards would be useful in academy - which seems reasonable.  I'll try and find it tonight. 

The trouble is there hasn't really been any indication of what these spells might be, or how they'd be chosen.  Level 1 and novice probably seem a likely start.

I was thinking about something similar to this last night, so hope you don't mind me thread hopping.  I love traitor mechanic games, Battlestar Galactica has one of my favorite elements where you've been working on one team all game and there's a small chance you might be part of the other team revealed late mid game.

I was wondering how it would work if you've got a two on two scenario - not long term alliances, but ones developed in the moment of battle.  At a point in the game there's a chance alliances might shift and the combo change.  I thought would bring an interesting dynamic to what  you'd invest buffing your ally, how you'd prepare your defenses.

Same thing though, I'd worry it would turn into a turtling competition.
 

oh, I hadn't realised that it was that sweeping an exclusion - is all cards an exclusion?

Is that just down to the difficulties working out balance?  I mean the cards are all same format and everything, its just power level really isnt it?  Or is there something more fundamentally different?

You could make it stronger but decaying/dissolving whatever the new term is.  Perhaps also a stun/dazed chance for non light creatures; you've just waled through the light of asyra after all. Dark creatures are burnt and/or stunned, light creatures healed 1 dice perdecay token representing the waning strength.

Awesome thanks!