Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Super Sorcerer on January 17, 2017, 03:33:11 PM
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ב"ה
Hello :)
I've seen that most skeleton Necromancer books posted in this forum don't include an armory. In my local meta an armory is an auto-include for skeleton necromancers. So I ask, Why not an armory?
yes, it is 6 spellbook points, but getting armor +1 (and piercing +1) for all skeleton minions, skeleton sentries, skeleton archers, skeleton knights and Mort is just awesome because they are high health low armor creatures.
Is it the spellbook point cost?
Or do think that an armory isn't even worth casting?
I know that the meta changes from area to area, but this is a specific change I just don't understand.
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In my experience it's the 10 mana that's the problem. I love the idea of Armory for Skeletons, but the Necromancer is a fragile mage and if you are relying on skeletons you really need a swarm of guards that can gang up and kill the enemy creatures. The armor costs 10 mana and that is .75-2 skeltons that you don't get to cast. 6 spellbook points is a lot as well, but it's the mana for me that is the biggest issue.
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I agree with puddin. The mana is the deal breaker in most skelly necros i see or played against. They have no armor, most of them, but high health. So they can stick around a bit before you need to reassemble. But 10 mana invested is a lot and you could just cast more skellies for a position, dice, and creature advantage instead
For a skeleton warlord that has comstruction yard it could work bc you wont run a ton of skeletons due to sbps. So after you build up your army you could buff them but as a necro you want to just continually crank them out.
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Dude this is a great topic! Personally I ran armory for awhile in my Skeleton Necro but ended up dropping it for more the SBP. In general I would rather just take more skeletons then the armor and piercing. Here's two reasons why
1 -> There is a lot of piercing 1 in the game that people are running. The more I see it the more armory is meh for Skellies.
2 -> the piercing 1 is very nice but I ultimately decided a marked for death or two would be better for those hard to bring down targets that I want the piercing for.
Hope that gives you some sort of perspective. Also as a side note - eternal servant rocks! Whether its a minion or skellie knight it's all worth while.
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I agree with Coshade, Great topic. I thought of this too have not really tried it out yet based on similar reasons. Can't disagree on why people decide not to use it. Maybe it would work running it with the intent of really turtling with the necro and using meditation amulet to make up for the lost mana for casting it. Still a lot of mana and you lose the speed to really be aggressive early. Really want to tru having an undead warlord book sounds really fun.
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The Skeleton Necro i made, is made for 75 min live tourney games.
I don´t think i would have the mana or enough creatures for it to matter. So no Armory.
I did run Fortified Position + Shift Enchantment, because it could benefit the Necro.
Likewise i did not find it worthwhile to keep the Skeletons alive with Reconstructs etc. (even if reconstruct is amazing)
OCTGN is no timelimit atm that should matter when you try to build a book.
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I include it mostly in my skeleton books. I totally agree with you Super Sorcerer! Some piercing, and especially some armor really makes them a lot more durable and it also makes your "healing" spells more useful.
Armory + Mort + healing spells + cheap skeletons (sentry + minions) really gives a lot of momentum to your skeleton army.
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Dude this is a great topic! Personally I ran armory for awhile in my Skeleton Necro but ended up dropping it for more the SBP. In general I would rather just take more skeletons then the armor and piercing. Here's two reasons why
1 -> There is a lot of piercing 1 in the game that people are running. The more I see it the more armory is meh for Skellies.
2 -> the piercing 1 is very nice but I ultimately decided a marked for death or two would be better for those hard to bring down targets that I want the piercing for.
Hope that gives you some sort of perspective. Also as a side note - eternal servant rocks! Whether its a minion or skellie knight it's all worth while.
This! I remember back in the days when I used to run Armory, I only had time to cast it when the game was more or less over. I prefer fortified position and shift enchantment.(as Biblo mentioned) Protect it with an Arcane ward if you know that you won't need to move it for the rest of the game. Shift enchant can also be used to move rust/marked for death between creatures.
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Our local Skelly Necromancer doesn't have much use for it. Armory is a buff that grows with the number of recipients, but she does not carry enough skeletons to make it work.
If you can swarm with enough skeletons, it might be nice, but then you have a book built around the armory and dependent on it.
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ב"ה
Maybe it would work running it with the intent of really turtling with the necro and using meditation amulet to make up for the lost mana for casting it.
Are there many necromancers that are not turtling in their starting corner with a meditation amulet?
I mean, I played twice against necromancers who did move one zone in the first round to turtle there (but still had meditation amulets). The first was because I moved to b1 (I start at a1 and he start at c4), and he preferred to turtle in b4 so he could wall me away easily. The second was because he had a battleforge and needed enough room for conjurations. All other Necromancers I faced (and all of those I played) turtled in their starting corner with a meditation amulet.
Even the "suggested book" of the necromancer (the one described in the Druid VS Necromancer expansion) got a meditation amulet (not that suggested book really say much).
The reason meditating in the corner is so popular for necromancers, is that the opponent will eventually have to come to you anyway, otherwise the idol of pestilence will just kill him.
As I understand that my local meta is very different from the meta you play with. What strategy do you have with your necromancer that is better than meditating in the corner?
[I just don't understand how necromancers could work other than meditating in their corners, and by the comments here I understand that my local meta is very unusual.]
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I've seen multiple non-meditation amulet mages (bow for example or more general support) but only 1 offensive necromancer.
I don't remember who it was but the idea was to utilise his plague master more. I think he cast drain soul in turn 2 or 3 to get the poison condition on there and from there on, curses.
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Necro is made for turteling!
And because it is like that I was working on a maximum surprise drain-the-complete-life-away-rush book several times. But sadly it's not working and he shows to simply be a solid turtle.
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haha :D, So apparantly, it was Bigfatchef I was talking about. :P
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haha :D, So apparantly, it was Bigfatchef I was talking about. :P
I don't think so halewijn :)
The only necro I ever posted was with mhgeddon to feed the sacrificial altar wich switched as idea from warlock to necro. But thats not it.
My idea was focusing on drain effects without many curses besides poisoned blood.
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I've got an in your face Necro as well. Usually I'll use Grey Wraith Skellie knights and Zombie Brutes. With Akiros favor the staff isn't terrible and Siphon Soul, Drain Life, Drain Soul on a Mage Wand is great. I think I ran 3 mage wands with at least 1 animate dead just in case I saw an option to do it.
With 10 Channel, melee options (Sectarus or Deathshroud Staff although I think that would change with today's cards) and no spawnpoint you can start having a ton of mana to "waste" on incantations.
The big thing is to try and get that Plaguemaster to do 1 damage a round. I would probably also cast Eye of Baal on my opponent to try and speed up the damage rate.
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... I would probably also cast Eye of Baal on my opponent to try and speed up the damage rate.
(https://media.tenor.co/images/4af056af8cc4beeb036518ba7cf53615/raw)
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Just re-read the Supplement. Misunderstood this text before:
Replacing Equipment
You cannot have 2 pieces of equipment attached which have the same name or the same location. For example, you cannot have 2 Leather Gloves attached (same name). You cannot have both or a Bearskin and a Dragonscale Hauberk attached (same location).
If an equipment object of the same name or location is cast upon a Mage, if the spell is friendly controlled, the new equipment object is placed on the Mage, and the duplicate item (the original one which has the same name or location) is removed and placed in its owner’s spellbook. In this manner, friendly Mages can replace equipment on each other with newer or better choices. This might be useful for removing equipment armor which is no longer useful because it is corroded (see “Corrode”).
Note that if an enemy-controlled equipment object of the same name or location is cast on a friendly Mage, the new equipment object is destroyed and placed in its owner’s discard pile. Enemies cannot replace equipment items on friendly Mages.
So, an enemy can't replace your equipment, but you also can't replace equipment your enemy controls... so you can't just cast Moonglow Amulet over an Eye of Bael that your opponent put on you. Interesting. Very interesting.
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That eye of bael trick sounds like cheating. :P
haha :D, So apparantly, it was Bigfatchef I was talking about. :P
I don't think so halewijn :)
The only necro I ever posted was with mhgeddon to feed the sacrificial altar wich switched as idea from warlock to necro. But thats not it.
My idea was focusing on drain effects without many curses besides poisoned blood.
Yeah, still sounds like you. I kinda forgot the plan after drain soul. Besides, I'm not talking about a posted deck, but about one I battled on OCTGN.
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... I would probably also cast Eye of Baal on my opponent to try and speed up the damage rate.
(https://media.tenor.co/images/4af056af8cc4beeb036518ba7cf53615/raw)
Got a great laugh on this one! Awesome meme man. Yeah it's legal in the way you showed it was. Most players dont have more then 1 amulet and they usually cast it at the beginning of the game so its a fun strategy. They usually just dissolve it though :P
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Got a great laugh on this one! Awesome meme man. Yeah it's legal in the way you showed it was. Most players dont have more then 1 amulet and they usually cast it at the beginning of the game so its a fun strategy. They usually just dissolve it though :P
I'd be happy if they have to waste a Dissolve to get rid of an EoB to stop the hurting. Small wins.
Are we absolutely sure it works? EoB keeps referencing "you" and "your Mage." Is that the Mage it's attached to or the Mage that controls the spell? I can't remember if somewhere it states that those are the same for equipment (unlike Enchantments and Conjurations).
The reason I'm asking is that my Sectarus-based direct damage/curse AC Warlock guffaws at the idea that his [mwcard=MW1J04]Battle Forge[/mwcard] can now cast a pseudo-curse on his non-Dark opposing Mage that might use up a Dissolve that would otherwise be saved for a much more crucial equipment on my Mage. Sure, it's just a Curse of Decay that can target a Mage... but hey, it's a Curse of Decay that can target a Mage that can be cast by Battle Forge!! (And stacks with Magebane and Ghoul Rot and Plagued and all the rest)
Also... I'm now officially campaigning to get the Curse subtype put on EoB. I mean, even when it targets your own Demon-based Dark Mage, it's obviously a curse. It's certainly as much a curse as Demonic Bloodlust and the promo Bloodthirsty Strike.
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I've seen multiple non-meditation amulet mages (bow for example or more general support) but only 1 offensive necromancer.
I don't remember who it was but the idea was to utilise his plague master more. I think he cast drain soul in turn 2 or 3 to get the poison condition on there and from there on, curses.
I believe that you are talking about Henry Kechups deck. I tried to build a similier deck, but my deck was only meh.
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Yeh, the 6sbp isn't the problem, it's the 10 mana. Rarely is the Armoury worth it...
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Yeh, the 6sbp isn't the problem, it's the 10 mana. Rarely is the Armoury worth it...
Well, it's kind of both. If it were 1-2 sbp's (e.g. roughly 1-2% of your spell book), it *might* be worth keeping in the book for the times when it is useful. But at 6 sbp's (5% of your spell book), it's really detrimental if you don't use it in most matches.
It's funny because totems ([mwcard=MW1J01]Rajan's Fury[/mwcard], [mwcard=MW1J03]Tooth & Nail[/mwcard]) are often worthwhile for a Beastmaster swarm, but [mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ04]Armory[/mwcard] is rarely worthwhile for a Necromancer (or even a Warlord) swarm. The totems each do about half what Armory does, for 7 mana and 2 sbp's. You'd think doing "twice as much" for just +3 mana (and +0 actions) would be worthwhile most of the time...
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I totally disagree with armory not being worth it for a necromancer. Most of them have a meditation amulet so its bot uncommon for a necro to channel 14+ mana per round. 10 mana and a quick cast really isnt that big of a deal. Boosting you skeletons really is a good option especially in combination with all the cheap reconstruct spells and mort. When I have it in my book, I think I cast it half of the games.
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My non-aggro books tend to channel lots of mana - 14-16 typically, and I still never want to cast the Armoury. I've had it in loads of Necro and Warlord books, it's just too expensive, and not that useful IMO.