Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Donovan on August 23, 2016, 04:41:52 PM
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I was playing against an Air Wizard.
To my surprise he pulls out an [mwcard=FWC02]Earth Elemental[/mwcard] in the first turn. I was a Warlord, so I had armour and an outpost prepared.
How to deal with that?
While trying to create damage, 2 turns later he plays a second one.
I started to move around, but lost full actions because of that. I felt it took the Wizard 2 turns to spawn one, but it would take me longer to get rid of one.
Then comes a third and a fourth...
Ignoring them is OK as long as there is just one, but when there are 3 or 4... each rolling 7 dice and having 35 life...
Obviously when you know this, you can design a spell book to counter it. But how to react with an all round book for a Warlord with War and Earth spells? Remember that Arcane spells cost 3x for him. Of course I could do the same trick myself, but where is the fun in that? Additionally the Wizard can pull out one in he first turn - the Warlord cannot.
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Summon a creature or two, then just keep moving - they have no Quick Attack.
Earth Elementals are generally considered weak - just keep moving and use Hurl Rock/Boulder from your wand (all at -1 cost) .
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agreed, movement is key.
How did he manage to summon 4? That's 60 mana! It sounds like you gave him the time to summon 4.
Something really cool I thought about today: Lesser teleport will make slow creatures stronger. A warlord could now summon earth elementals and support them with arcane ward and lesser teleport. :D
I am also incredibly happy that lesser teleport does NOT work on enemies. In other words, force push is still worth it and unmovable creatures are still worth it.
Lesser teleport is an amazingly nicely designed card!
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Earth Elemental is amazing against conjurations. They can secure and zone out areas of the map very effectively. That being said you either ignore it or just throw tons of dice at it. Since it has no armor you can really kill it by focus firing. Don't be afraid if they guard since they have no quick attack counterstrike.
If they keep pulling them out, you should be hitting a timing where you also have tons of mana on the arena for damage.
#hale - Lesser Teleport rocks! I've used it on Grogon and Earth Elemental to some success to far :D
*edited to fix Grogon
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Grogan?
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Err GorgOn Archer. Typed really quickly there
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Something really cool I thought about today: Lesser teleport will make slow creatures stronger. A warlord could now summon earth elementals and support them with arcane ward and lesser teleport. :D
Arcane Ward also works against its controller spells so You would have to choose either lesser teleport or the ward
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I know, but with some careful planning you can do a lot. :) i just meant that warlords can finally give their army some arcane support.
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Earth Elemental is amazing against conjurations. They can secure and zone out areas of the map very effectively. That being said you either ignore it or just throw tons of dice at it. Since it has no armor you can really kill it by focus firing. Don't be afraid if they guard since they have no quick attack counterstrike.
If they keep pulling them out, you should be hitting a timing where you also have tons of mana on the arena for damage.
#hale - Lesser Teleport rocks! I've used it on Grogon and Earth Elemental to some success to far :D
*edited to fix Grogon
So the question here is: An Earth Elemental has 35 life. So to win the race you need to:
a) kill it in 2 rounds (round 2 and 3)
b) save some mana while doing that
How can I do 18 dmg per round in 2 rounds while still maintaining b)?
If I ignore them, he'll soon have 3 and 4 (yes that is an enormous amount of spell points, but he did that).
And ignoring 4 of them is impossible.
If I hurl 5 average boulders at him (35 dmg), I spent 40 mana and 3 turns on a creature that cost 20 mana.
If I ignore him, there will be 2 by round 3, 3 by round 5 and 4 by round 7. You hardly ignore 2 of them and 3 or 4 is impossible.
My problem is that ignoring leads to a wipe out of my Warlord conjurations. And not ignoring them cost more mana and more rounds than the other mage needs to re-stock.
Other creatures with high dmg output are often Epic or Legendary - the Earth Elemental is not.
So imagine you just played:
ROUND 1
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WARLORD
6 mana - Deflection Bracers
12 mana - Barracks
WIZARD
20 mana - Earth Elemental
ROUND 2
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WIZARD: moves Earth Elemental towards you 1 zone
WARLORD: ???
WIZARD: passes
ROUND 3
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WARLORD: ???
WIZARD: moves Earth Elemental towards you 1 zone
WARLORD: ???
WIZARD: 20 mana - 2nd Earth Elemental
I don't see how to get out of this in a winning position?
The only way out I see is to put 4 of them in my own Warlord spellbook?
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Fliers, walls, archers watchtower
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I have to say, mad respect for your opponent. :P Pretty awesome what he did.
Flyers indeed help, but you were a warlord, so you probably didn't have that. I don't think I would start to attack all 4 of them. Maybe 1. [mwcard=FWC10]Ludwig Boltstorm[/mwcard], [mwcard=FWC14]Sir Corazin, Blademaster[/mwcard], and [mwcard=FWC07]Grimson Deadeye, Sniper[/mwcard] would probably help. Goblin grunts can also deal decent damage. They can hit with 3 dice and if they manage to pull of another attack they have been gold for their manacost. If you add [mwcard=MW1E21]Hawkeye[/mwcard] on your warlord, you can deal 6 dice of damage for 4 mana with [mwcard=MWSTX2FFA02]Hurl Rock[/mwcard] and 5 more with the [mwcard=MW1Q13]Ivarium Longbow[/mwcard].
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Keep in mind you can guard and have creatures with defense make that big attack miss. As it's brutal to get hit by that big dice attack, it is equally as brutal to not have that hit to your opponent.
Or just sacrifice a guarding Goblin Grunt while you wreck the Elemental's face.
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The problem is, all these ideas work somehow, but you will need more turns to get rid of 1 Earth Elemental than the opponent spawns them.
Also, your small creatures are faster destroyed than the opponent Earth Elemental, so you already lost fire power, while the opponent still has his 7 dice.
I think the Warlord suffers more from this than other mages, because:
- The Warlord pays 3x for Arcane spells, which would be good to buff himself or diminish the power of the Earth Elemental.
- The Warlord relies on conjurations, which are a sitting duck for the Earth Elemental.
- The Warlord typically has not a lot of flying creatures and typically doesn't have a lot of enchantment to cause flying.
I think the only option really is to have 4 Earth Elementals in your own deck, although the Warlord can only spawn his first Earth Elemental in round 2 and the 2nd in round 4. And the Warlord is kind of forced to pass in the first round when he has the initiative, because when he plays conjurations, he cannot spawn his 1st Earth Elemental until round 4 and his conjurations (and mana) are likely gone.
Personally I think the Earth Elemental should be Epic or at least Unique.
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The problem is, all these ideas work somehow, but you will need more turns to get rid of 1 Earth Elemental than the opponent spawns them.
Also, your small creatures are faster destroyed than the opponent Earth Elemental, so you already lost fire power, while the opponent still has his 7 dice.
I think the Warlord suffers more from this than other mages, because:
- The Warlord pays 3x for Arcane spells, which would be good to buff himself or diminish the power of the Earth Elemental.
- The Warlord relies on conjurations, which are a sitting duck for the Earth Elemental.
- The Warlord typically has not a lot of flying creatures and typically doesn't have a lot of enchantment to cause flying.
I think the only option really is to have 4 Earth Elementals in your own deck, although the Warlord can only spawn his first Earth Elemental in round 2 and the 2nd in round 4. And the Warlord is kind of forced to pass in the first round when he has the initiative, because when he plays conjurations, he cannot spawn his 1st Earth Elemental until round 4 and his conjurations (and mana) are likely gone.
Personally I think the Earth Elemental should be Epic or at least Unique.
I really think you're over reacting. There are a lot of good suggestions here. Remember that each elemental only gets one attack a turn so, yes, he can kill something, but if even one of those attacks doesn't one shot something you come out ahead because the wizard is casting one every two turns and doing nothing else which in my opinion is a huge blunder. If he spends time killing your conjurations you win because he's not killing the stuff that's killing his creatures.
Even with your proposed opening of Barracks and Deflection bracers you can guard your creatures from the 7 dice attack. The warlord has the HP to take a couple of hits to ensure that his creatures survive. Your wizard friend is wasting a massive number of actions to get those elementals out. You should be able to out action him very quickly and then pick and choose when and how you engage with the elementals so that you come out ahead.
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I love how you are the first guy ever to talk about the earth elemental as if he is overpowered. Every other time, people consider him weak. :P
Instead of killing the elementals, destract it with guards and other stuff, while you focus your fire on the opponent.
I find the iron golem much better. 6 dice, only 13 mana, psychic immunity, also unmovable.
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Honestly I don't like Barracks openers. I find them to committed mana wise and easy to react to. I would suggest maybe opening with a Barracks and Garrison post so you can at least start spitting out creatures. If you want to go Barracks ultimately I would suggest opening Garrison Post with [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ04]General's Signet Ring[/mwcard] and delay your Barracks until round 2 (if they spent their mana on something safe for you to Barracks out with). This lets you cast your creatures in a positional advantage while still having an economy opener.
Also could you post your book? Perhaps there is something we could examine to help you deal with the Earth Elementals besides just taking them yourself.
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The thing isn't that Earth Elemental is -bad- its that you can pay less for better creatures. Iron Golems or Devouring Jellies and so on will get more work done than an Earth Elemental for less mana AND less spell points. So, by comparison EEs are terribly inefficient.
As far as Warlord answers to Earth Elemental-
-Grimson Deadeye sitting on a watchtower can plug 3-4 attacks into it before its even close enough to attack. (4 dice from 3 zones, 5 from 2, 6 from 1)
-Thorg can waste an Earth Elementals turns but taunting it and forcing it to move to his zone (since its a slow creature with no quick attack it will just uselessly lumber around)
Hit it with Quicksand to force the opponent to spend actions to free it or spend his teleports.
-Use Stumble and/or Fumbles to waste its attempts to move or attack while youre creatures burn it down.
Reverse Attack while Grimson or any other hard hitter focuses damage.
EE has no armor, so as long as youre running a few ranged creatures you should be able to burn him down easily before he can do much damage especially if combined with aforementioned tools to hinder its ability to move (quicksand/stumble) to buy extra rounds.
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-Thorg can waste an Earth Elementals turns but taunting it and forcing it to move to his zone (since its a slow creature with no quick attack it will just uselessly lumber around)
Elementals are psychic immune so they ignore the taunt.
-Use Stumble and/or Fumbles to waste its attempts to move or attack while youre creatures burn it down.
Those spells don't work on unmovable creatures such as EE.
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The thing isn't that Earth Elemental is -bad- its that you can pay less for better creatures. Iron Golems or Devouring Jellies and so on will get more work done than an Earth Elemental for less mana AND less spell points. So, by comparison EEs are terribly inefficient.
As far as Warlord answers to Earth Elemental-
-Grimson Deadeye sitting on a watchtower can plug 3-4 attacks into it before its even close enough to attack. (4 dice from 3 zones, 5 from 2, 6 from 1)
-Thorg can waste an Earth Elementals turns but taunting it and forcing it to move to his zone (since its a slow creature with no quick attack it will just uselessly lumber around)
Hit it with Quicksand to force the opponent to spend actions to free it or spend his teleports.
-Use Stumble and/or Fumbles to waste its attempts to move or attack while youre creatures burn it down.
Reverse Attack while Grimson or any other hard hitter focuses damage.
EE has no armor, so as long as youre running a few ranged creatures you should be able to burn him down easily before he can do much damage especially if combined with aforementioned tools to hinder its ability to move (quicksand/stumble) to buy extra rounds.
Stumble / Fumble don't work, because the EE is unmovable.
Quicksand will cost you 10 mana and therefore a complete turn. If you decide to kill the EE, I think the strategy should be to do that in less than 2 turns with less than 20 mana. Otherwise the other mage gains on you.
Also, the EE has a nasty Daze/Stun.
Of course I understand the global concepts brought forward in this thread (ignoring, flying, guarding, take hits, ranged attacks), but I have not seen a post showing how to kill the EE in 2 turns with 20 mana invested at max.
I would suggest maybe opening with a Barracks and Garrison post so you can at least start spitting out creatures.
Typo?
I'll see if I can post my book.
I find the iron golem much better. 6 dice, only 13 mana, psychic immunity, also unmovable.
An Iron Golem in average needs 6 attacks to take down an Earth Elemental.
An Earth Elemental in average does 3.5 critical dmg per attack and therefore in average needs 4 attacks to take down the Iron Golem, during which the Iron Golem is Dazed after 2 of these.
-Thorg can waste an Earth Elementals turns but taunting it and forcing it to move to his zone (since its a slow creature with no quick attack it will just uselessly lumber around)
Elementals are psychic immune so they ignore the taunt.
-Use Stumble and/or Fumbles to waste its attempts to move or attack while youre creatures burn it down.
Those spells don't work on unmovable creatures such as EE.
Psychic Immunity only for non-lvinging conjurations, not for Elementals?
Important: Unless the card says otherwise, all conjurations have the following traits: Nonliving, Psychic Immunity, and Unmovable (you can look these traits up in the Codex).
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Elementals have their own will, unlike golems and other constructed creatures which do not.
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Non-living only includes Poison Immunity and Finite Life. If the creature doesn't specifically have Psy-Immune added on, then they are vulnerable. That's why every skeleton/zombie and so on has it listed on their card separate, and another reason that Iron Golems are better than EEs (protection from Charm, Mind Control, Taunts and Songs)
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I would suggest maybe opening with a Barracks and Garrison post so you can at least start spitting out creatures.
Typo?
???
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I would suggest maybe opening with a Barracks and Garrison post so you can at least start spitting out creatures.
Typo?
???
You said you don't like Barracks openings and then suggest to open with a Barracks?
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If you decide to kill the EE, I think the strategy should be to do that in less than 2 turns with less than 20 mana. Otherwise the other mage gains on you.
First, I will humor this notion by giving you a solution in a manor that you wont like, due to warlord's training:
[mwcard=MW1Q19]Mage Wand[/mwcard] with [mwcard=MW1I01]Banish[/mwcard] attached.
This is 2 quick actions and 19 mana to remove a 20 mana EE from the game for three rounds.
Second, You are not going to be able to consistently generate 35 damage in 2 rounds for under 20 mana, max damage rolls withstanding, anymore because you're asking for a way to kill most mages, aka winning the game, in 2 rounds and under 20 mana.
#DoubleDragon
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I would suggest maybe opening with a Barracks and Garrison post so you can at least start spitting out creatures.
Typo?
???
You said you don't like Barracks openings and then suggest to open with a Barracks?
Ah I see. I meant I don't like Barracks openings, but just wanted to give some suggestions if you wanted to stick with that. I've run a few Barracks Warlords and that was my experience on how they worked out.
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And ignoring 4 of them is impossible.
If I hurl 5 average boulders at him (35 dmg), I spent 40 mana and 3 turns on a creature that cost 20 mana.
No, not impossible - you don't need to kill his creatures. IGNORE those elementals and throw that 35 damage to his face and kill him! The game is to kill the mage, not his army...
If he's casting 4 Earth Elementals, he's not doing anything else. You should have him dead by the time the 2nd one gets an activation...
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And ignoring 4 of them is impossible.
If I hurl 5 average boulders at him (35 dmg), I spent 40 mana and 3 turns on a creature that cost 20 mana.
No, not impossible - you don't need to kill his creatures. IGNORE those elementals and throw that 35 damage to his face and kill him! The game is to kill the mage, not his army...
If he's casting 4 Earth Elementals, he's not doing anything else. You should have him dead by the time the 2nd one gets an activation...
Agreed, If you allow your opponent to summon 3 or 4 elementals, he deserves to win. :) That's 7 rounds without doing anything else. Still... I find your opponent awesome :P By turn 5 you should be in his face, no matter what strategy you are using. He will have 2 elementals, but be very vulnarable. If he continues to summon a third one, you should be able to finish him of.
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And ignoring 4 of them is impossible.
If I hurl 5 average boulders at him (35 dmg), I spent 40 mana and 3 turns on a creature that cost 20 mana.
No, not impossible - you don't need to kill his creatures. IGNORE those elementals and throw that 35 damage to his face and kill him! The game is to kill the mage, not his army...
If he's casting 4 Earth Elementals, he's not doing anything else. You should have him dead by the time the 2nd one gets an activation...
Agreed, If you allow your opponent to summon 3 or 4 elementals, he deserves to win. :) That's 7 rounds without doing anything else. Still... I find your opponent awesome :P By turn 5 you should be in his face, no matter what strategy you are using. He will have 2 elementals, but be very vulnarable. If he continues to summon a third one, you should be able to finish him of.
It would be cool to try in a team match. One Mage summons elementals while the other keeps the enemy occupied while tanking. Maybe wizard and warlord team. Better to run two at most or you'll have no mana for a soldier! Four elementals seems excessive.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It would be cool to try in a team match. One Mage summons elementals while the other keeps the enemy occupied while tanking. Maybe wizard and warlord team. Better to run two at most or you'll have no mana for a soldier! Four elementals seems excessive.
psshhh
Siren & Siren
Water Elemental² !
Twice the bubbles, Twice the fun!!
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The best option is make a wizard book with 4 earth elemental,log in OCTGN and watch how every average player beat the shit of you , meanwhile you could take notes
Enviado desde mi Aquaris E4.5 mediante Tapatalk
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The best option is make a wizard book with 4 earth elemental,log in OCTGN and watch how every average player beat the shit of you , meanwhile you could take notes
Enviado desde mi Aquaris E4.5 mediante Tapatalk
Hahahahaha. I have actually considered that too.
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It would be cool to try in a team match. One Mage summons elementals while the other keeps the enemy occupied while tanking. Maybe wizard and warlord team. Better to run two at most or you'll have no mana for a soldier! Four elementals seems excessive.
psshhh
Siren & Siren
Water Elemental² !
Twice the bubbles, Twice the fun!!
I was actually going to suggest the Water Elemental instead of the Earth, lol.
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Psychic Immunity only for non-lvinging conjurations, not for Elementals?
Important: Unless the card says otherwise, all conjurations have the following traits: Nonliving, Psychic Immunity, and Unmovable (you can look these traits up in the Codex).
Yeah, I just haven't seen earth elemental in play yet so I remembered the card wrong.
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Also could you post your book? Perhaps there is something we could examine to help you deal with the Earth Elementals besides just taking them yourself.
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]First Draft[/spellbookname]
[mage]A Anvil Throne Warlord Spellbook[/mage]
[mage]built by the OCTGN SBB[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFA02]2 x Hurl Rock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA04]2 x Hurl Boulder[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWJ01]1 x Akiro's Hammer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ02]1 x Altar of Carnage[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWJ02]1 x Archer's Watchtower[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ04]1 x Armory[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWJ03]1 x Barracks[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ05]1 x Construction Yard[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWJ04]1 x Garrison Post[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1J02]1 x Gravikor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWJ07]2 x Quicksand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWW01]2 x Wall of Pikes[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFC06]2 x Goblin Alchemist[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC03]2 x Goblin Bomber[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC04]1 x Goblin Builder[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC05]2 x Goblin Grunt[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC06]3 x Goblin Slinger[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC07]1 x Grimson Deadeye, Sniper[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC10]1 x Ludwig Boltstorm[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFC09]1 x Otto Kronig, Master Engineer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1C04]1 x Slaknir, Goblin Chieftain[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]2 x Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E02]2 x Block[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE06]2 x Fortified Position[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E32]2 x Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E33]2 x Retaliate[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE05]1 x Spiked Pit[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE09]1 x Standard Bearer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1Q04]1 x Deflection Bracers[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ03]1 x Eisenach's Forge Hammer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q08]2 x Elemental Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ04]1 x General's Signet Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ05]2 x Harshforge Plate[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ05]2 x Helm of Command[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q13]2 x Ivarium Longbow[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q15]1 x Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q16]1 x Leather Gloves[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ08]1 x Ring of Command[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ07]1 x Veteran's Belt[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWA01I01]1 x Crumble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I06]1 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01I02]1 x Disperse[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I07]1 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI06]2 x Power Strike[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I20]2 x Purify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI08]1 x Sniper Shot[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
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I didnt expect this, but your deck can handle elementals pretty good!
I would focus on ranged fire.
Ivarium longbow, wall of pikes, ludwig (9 dice without armor!), grimson, slingers.
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This book is excellant to deal with Earth Elementals, or just killing the mage. The hammer is very nice if you can land a daze on a Elemental. Missing a daze roll and losing 7 dice is pretty brutal. Make sure you have akiros favor so you can help get that daze. Otherwise Hale had some good ideas. I wouldn't cast the bracers until you know you are about to be hit. Casting to early (like turn 1) is to limiting for your mana pool.
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This book is excellant to deal with Earth Elementals, or just killing the mage. The hammer is very nice if you can land a daze on a Elemental. Missing a daze roll and losing 7 dice is pretty brutal. Make sure you have akiros favor so you can help get that daze. Otherwise Hale had some good ideas. I wouldn't cast the bracers until you know you are about to be hit. Casting to early (like turn 1) is to limiting for your mana pool.
Thx. Will try again. Guess I freaked out when he pulled the Earth Elemental in the first round. And then 2 rounds later pulled the 2nd one. I went for them, but really I think you should not. There is no way you can beat 2 mages worth of life and still stand as strong as before. You have likely emptied all your good spells/creatures and will be vulnerable.
Next time I will not cast conjurations, but make sure I have enough fighting power to hit the mage when he starts this way.
Will report back.
Btw, I would love to see some videos of you guys where you do not focus on entire games (love those too btw) but on some game openings - say the first 4 rounds of a game for certain mages. Perhaps also focusing on the differences of having initiative or not. This weird Earth Elemental opening for the Air Wizard could be one of them. I'd love to see how you guys deal with it. And I'd also like to see some game openings for other mages.
For example, I saw a very aggressive Force Master opening once. Immediately hitting the other mage with Boulders etc.. That can be quite surprising and if you commit mana to slow buildup and the other mage comes in aggressively, it is hard to correct.
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Also could you post your book? Perhaps there is something we could examine to help you deal with the Earth Elementals besides just taking them yourself.
EQUIPMENT
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2x Elemental Wand
ENCHANTMENTS
------------------------------
2x Akiros Favor
ATTACKS
------------------------------
2x Hurl Boulder
2x Hurl Rock
R1 19
Move
Elemental wand ( Hurl Boulder )
FD Akiro's Favor
R2 21
Double move to FC
QC Hurl Boulder on the Wizard ( use Akiro's Favor if necessary, let's say you did) 7 dice total
R3 19
Move if necessary
2x Hurl Boulder 21 dice total
R4 12
Move to within 1
Hurl Boulder 28 dice total
Hurl Rock 33 dice total
With average rolls and an Akiro's Favor to reroll, the Wizard should be finished by R4, he has 2 EE's in play and probably hasn't touched you. ;)
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Nice. I was thinking about something like that. Come out aggressively is the only viable way. Ignoring and fighting the EEs is not going to be successful.
Small Problem is likely that you did not prepare that in round 1 and you do not know what is going on till round 3/4.
But will try out and report back!
Appreciated!
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Small Problem is likely that you did not prepare that in round 1 and you do not know what is going on till round 3/4.
Even if you start this approach only by R3, the Wizard is dead by R6, he has 3EE's out and still probably hasn't touched you ;)
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I would point out that Mongoose Agility lets you run away from Earth Elemental like a champ. It's slow, so can't move and attack, and if you're not hindered you should be able to move away. The Wizard can (and probably will) cast Charge or Teleport, but it's not like he's going to have a lot of mana lying around.
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Even if it is maybe not the super duper Strategie:
Do you think a Wizard with 4 EarthElementals can still be a solid book even after Wizard Errata to Air Training? It's a lot of spellbook points now.
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I play against my son who is 10 years old. He did manage to build a valid book with 120 points containing 40 points worth of Earth Elementals!
The thing was: I was so surprised! I was getting ready for a 2 hour game, slowly building up my new Warlord (first time I played him) and then that happened! We kind of have a rule that we do not aggressively charge towards each other in the first rounds. We saw that once on OCTGN with a Forcemaster build. We were in awe, but decided that is not the kind of game we are after. Also: I don't want to lose my young sparring partner! =;-)
It took me some time to figure out that you cannot fight those EE. They are like 140 damage points. And it will likely cost you more mana and more rounds than he used to cast them.
But I also figured out: While 1 EE may be ignored, 2, 3 or even 4 cannot be ignored. They close in on you. Hinder you. Crush your conjurations with 1 or 2 blows of 7 dice each. The Goblin Soldiers are not the strongest in terms of life and armor.
So it took me some time to to figure out that what he was really doing was investing huge amounts of mana in long term damage. If I can spend the same amount of mana in short term damage, I can counter.
So this required me changing to a strategy I was actually always trying to avoid: Full blown mage to mage combat, spending all mana on attack spells (hurl boulder/rock).
Still I'm sure that you can surprise many players who are new to the game with such a build - even if 4 Earth Elementals take 40 of your spell points! It might be an interesting build for a Warlord against an inexperienced other mage as well. For a Warlord this is "only" 20 points. But he must cast a Mana Flower first, other wise he cannot cast one every 2 turns.
If you are new to the game: Try it out I would say. Both of you will learn.
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Generally when you invest in a creature you are immediately the weakest right then, but payoff over time. Running 4 EE's is what I like to call a training book. It's a book that's not super competitive, but instead helps create super competitive books. If you want some other training style books search in the forums for the Rushmaster (an in your face mass attack spell book). Or the Beastslinger - a book that uses creatures like you would attack spells.
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Generally when you invest in a creature you are immediately the weakest right then, but payoff over time. Running 4 EE's is what I like to call a training book. It's a book that's not super competitive, but instead helps create super competitive books. If you want some other training style books search in the forums for the Rushmaster (an in your face mass attack spell book). Or the Beastslinger - a book that uses creatures like you would attack spells.
The Rushmaster is a very cool deck invented by Coshade/intangible. The first time you battle it, it will whoop your ass. After that lesson, the rushmaster will be very unlikely to beat you again. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6cj15VvBxI
Here you can see it in action, kicking some necromancer butt. The game ends in only 4 rounds.
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So what is the solution? Jinx, Block, Reverse Magic, Walls, do the same thing?
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it depends on your book. Theres a ton of ways to deal with it
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So what is the solution? Jinx, Block, Reverse Magic, Walls, do the same thing?
We have to be honest here, the Necromancer's play was not very good, to put it mildly.
He just got double-bouldered and what was his reaction ?
He spent all his mana on ... Mort. That helped.
Apparently he didn't see the need for some armor - which he didn't play at all.
A simple Brace Yourself would already have gone a long way.
While games like these may leave some (new) players in awe and scratching their heads :)
it is important to realize that the quick finish is just the result of one player being new or inexperienced.
There is a parallel here of course with one player just focusing on creatures ( Earth Elementals / Mort-Deathfang ) and ignoring his safety and the other just taking advantage of that and finishing the game in 4 rounds with Attack spells.
I understand, Donovan, you don't like to play "like that" but if the opponent makes those mistakes it's only fair to exploit them. It will make both of you better as a result. This should only happen once to a smart player, which I'm sure your son is. Playing this game at age 10 speaks for that.
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Hey Donovan, seems like running into your sons 4 EEs created a very thrilling game for you.
That is exactly what I love mage wars for. A surprise puts you in a uncomfortable situation and you have to find a way out within your limited spells at hand. This goes further to your next spellbook creation.
And I must say that's a very clever play for a 10 year old! Respect!