Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Tim on April 13, 2013, 01:17:14 PM
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Hi there,
This is my decklist of my forcemaster deck.
equipment:
2 dancing scimitar
gauntlets of strength
galvitar, force blade
mage wand
Conjurations:
2 hand of bim-Shalla
deathlock
Mordok's obelisk
Creatures:
3 thoughtspore
invisible stalker
Enchantments:
2 charm
2 bear strength
falcon precision
mongoose agility
circle of lightning
cheetah speed
2 mind control
2 forcefield
vampirism
decoy
2 nullify
2 force hold
marked for death
retaliate
Incantation:
2 battle furry
2 dissolve
teleport
purify
piercing strike
power strike
3 dispel
seeking dispel
perfect strike
Attack:
hurl boulder
= 120 points
My openings looks something like this:
round 1:
20mana
quick cast cheetah speed on self and reveal (15)
move twice en cast bear strength on self (10)
round 2:
20 mana
summon 1 thoughtspore and bind battle fury. place face down under thoughtspore (12)
quickcast gauntlets of strength or hand of bim-shalla or marked for death on opponent.
Offcourse this is not the same every game. If I see a warlock as opponent I wouldn't enchant cheetah speed but summon another thougthspore with hurl boulder binded.
If the opponent mage is in melee zone quickcast your blade, use battle furry (binded on 1 thoughspore) and cast on self and start doing serious damage.
If opponent mage is slow (mana crystals, temple build, ...) in the beginning, start to cast the hand of bim-shalla while moving towards the mage. You can even cast other cards that helps you melee like falcon precision, mongoose agility, circel of lightning (against swarm), vampirism, nullify, retaliate, ...
Suggestions/tips/ other strategies would be great!
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I'm glad to see a Forcemaster spellbook posted.
I don't think you will get good value from Marked for Death in this build. It really shines when you're throwing a lot of attacks per turn, more than you will be capable of. You need something to help you with mana. I would replace it with Psi Orb to help manage your upkeeps or you'll be limited casting your Hurl Boulder with your Thoughtspore.
Circle of Lightening is counter intuitive to a Forcemaster, but I'm guessing this is a calculated choice since you aren't maximizing the Forcemaster's ability to make defense rolls. I'll be curious how this works out for you.
Good luck with your build let us know how it works for you.
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Your lack of armor is a little concerning. You don't have ways to buff Deflection or gain many additional defenses (just Dancing Scimitar). You seem to be relying on Forcefield for additional defense, but I'm not sure if that's going to be enough.
Marked for Death doesn't seem like it will be that effective. I don't think you'll get the bonus with enough of your attacks to justify it.
You could use a Psi-Orb to help manage upkeep costs, and I'd consider discount rings and if you're planning on being aggressive often.
You have relatively little position control for a FM build. 1 Teleport, no Force Push/Force Wave/Repulse/Force Bash, and no Force Ring to give you a discount on Force Pull.
You don't have cheap attack options. That may be okay, but I'm going to try running Invisible Fist. It's a cheap enough attack that I can make it regularly while still having mana to do other stuff. Casting Hurl Boulder out of a Thoughtspore every turn will wipe out your mana. Maybe you're just planning on using Hurl Boulder to finish someone off, and it's a good choice for that.
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Thanks for the quick reaction!
I agree but marked for dead is a bonus for increasing attack power, but I actually agree on taking it out because I don't really need extra attack power. This was just a extra thing to quickly damage the opponent mage and result is dead off opponent mage in 2 rounds (even against temple priest it happened 2/3).
I was testing the marked for dead and the damage barrier. My calculations where that I needed something against swarms, but mordoks obelisk is also a hard counter against swarms. Since winning can only be done by killing the opponent mage, I included the circle of lightning. I am not yet convinced about it so it is possible that I would change it but then again it is also good against beatdown, big creature rush, ...
I want to include a battle forge for testing because it gives me an extra action to buff myself (but this at the expense off a quick action and 8 mana). Off course then I will include more buff cards like armor, ... But now my focus is on preventing damage with the ability of the forcemaster, the 2 forcefields and if necessary the scimitars but most often I use the 3 dice attack.
I also agree on armor: even if they can penetrate my defenses, a solid rate of armor does the trick. It goes well with the battle forge but again my focus was on preventing damage but I get the point :).
As for Psi-Orb: I don't really like it, maybe I could include it with the battle forge but still then I am not convinced. I don't have that many cards simultaneous on the field with high upkeep costs. Mind control gets a lot of dispels or I use mordoks obelisk, don't pay upkeep, and the creature is gone. I almost every game have scimitar which is 1 upkeep (no problem). Forcefield is pricy but it also have already stopped 3 attacks, which is the same mana for 3 blocks with the ability to negate unavoidable attacks.
I don't use invisible stalker that much. I use it against big creature builds and solo-mage beatdown but even then, battle furry is awesome with the attack power I have. So I am hesitating to take him out but he is just to cool :d.
My experience tells my that is don't need extra positioning control with the force master. The force pull is so amazing in positioning control. That in combo with cheetah speed, I think it is sufficient.
I get what you say about the expensive hurl boulder. It would cost me 7 (1 channeling of thoughtspore). I don't use it every turn and it is mostly to scare the opponent and use it when he comes to close to my thoughtspores and to finish creatures. But then my problem (in my opinion) is that I don't use that thougthspore efficiently because the best way to use the thougthspore is to use the bind spell almost every round (I think). What do you think about that?
I don't like the idea of invisible fists because its a 0-1 spell. I rather be at a distance because thoughtspores are easily killed and their support means a lot especially the one with the battle fury!
Thanks again for the good reactions and I always appreciate tips/feedback/...
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I would say, battle forge and more equipment as well.
Two mind control is too much IMO, I would rather have more sleep/charm the twelve points put in to two mind controls. One is good for me.
But yeah...Looking good!
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Thanks DarthDadaD20.
I get your point. I find mind control a cool spell but I can never use the creature for an attack or something.
I cast mind control, then reveal it, target is stunned, I use action marker to remove stun. Next turn It gets a dispel, ... and okay target is stunned again but its just a slow-down card.
I used a quick action + spend (let us say the creature was lv3) 8 mana + 3 mana upkeep. I could slow it down for 2 turns (1 when I control it, 2 when mind control is destroyed/removed) and mostly the opponent mage use a resource to remove the mind control (dispel). This will cost the opponent 8 mana and also a quick action + one of his dispels. If the opponent doesn't use dispel I will pay 3 mana upkeep with pleasure to use the creature. + I like the combo with Mordok's obelisk :).
What do you think?
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It is quite the combo!
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Yesterday, I lost a game with my deck against the priestess but it was rather due to the bad plays/decisions I made. But then again I was testing a different strategy.
You learn with every experience, so play is important :p.
Before the match I swapped out de circle of lightning and the marked for dead for other cards.
I wanted to test if I could focus 80% on melee and if this was the case then I could make room in the deck by cutting on the dissolves and dispels.
Opponent summoned creatures but there where no problem. I already had damaged the priestess so that she had suffered 24 damage on turn 4!!!
At this point my opponent played a mage wand (opponent had enough mana) and binds removal-cards (like dissolve, dispel, ...).
I wanted to test if I can focus on doing 'a hell of a lot' of damage and to kill her quickly, so I let the mage wand be. At first it wasn't a problem at all. My opponent succeeded slowly to reduce my attack power. Which wasn't a problem because I had enough attack power + support of one thoughtspore with battle furry. But when the game progresses it was a problem. I had the priestess down on her knees with only 7 health left and she couldn't heal because I played a deathlock. Due to a bad decision and poor dice rolling and opponents lucky strike on deathlock, I became at a serious disadvantage. At the end I was at such a disadvantage that I couldn't win.
Conclusions:
- a mage wand with dissolve/dispel can really hurt the deck a lot. The opponent is slowly decreasing my attack power which is all so important for this type of deck.
- I realized that once my attack power is decreased I couldn't build it up again.
- So the dispels/dissolves in deck are necessary to remove cards that are a threat like mage wands, cursus like agony, enchantment with aegis +1, armor, ...
- I also find that the support of 2 thoughtspore are, almost in every game, necessary. I should had summoned another thoughtpore (in beginning) with dispel/dissolve bind or equip myself a mage wand with dispel/dissolve and enchant myself with a nullify.
If you have any suggestions or tips/strategy let me know.
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I was wondering why you have a second Dancing Scimitar? I like the DS, it just doesn't seem important enough to your strategy to have a back up. I use one. If mine got destroyed I'm not sure I'd want to use the action to cast its replacement. If you went equipment heavy and played with a Battleforge it could cast it and save you an action, but you are going a different route.
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I find that my first dancing scimitar 70% gets a dissolve because its a extra 3 dice attack. Thats why i include a second copy.
I understand what you mean: it is indeed an extra quick action but it gives me 3 dice attack every round or a defense. Because my strategy is to do a lot of damage in a short time i include 2 copies.
I am considering to include a battle forge in the deck but then i need to make room for more equipment which is going to be a pain.
I will take decoy out the deck because if i use the force spell a nullify must activate.
Maybe i even consider to take out the invisible stalker. What are your thoughts?
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I think you are talking about significant changes now. I would continue to tweak the deck until your are ready to go in a new direction. I think Battleforge and more equipment could be interesting but only if you're satisfied with the effort you've put in the spellbook to date. The finished product is likely to play very differently from your current build.
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I HATED stalker at first....threw him in after a few games later and wow...he is just great. Activate him at the end and he is 5 more damage a round and wont go anywhere soon. I hate that I cant guard with him though...I get him out early and he does well.
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After the league this week I hope to post my build and match results.
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I would like to read that and the strategy u use.
Good luck!
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Your right DarthDadaD20, he is great but:
at the time that i could summon him i should be attacking because i am at my max attack power. I understand thats its a good card but its expensive and takes a full action. I use it mostly when playing against buff mage or something. I always wait for the last moment to attack with him. My opponent is also a decent player so he always keep 1 decent creature to attack the stalker when he is visible. He guards a lot with other creatures and guard is a real pain for the invisible stalker.
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The Invisible Stalker is elusive when invisible so guards don't effect him.
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Why Mordok's Obelisk instead of Suppression Orb?
I also don't know how you get by without Mind school attack spells (especially super-efficient ones like Invisible Fist..) and at least one healing spell (I guess Hands heal, but you're not going to get much value out of them with your "blitz" approach). Binding either to a Thoughtspore is killer and without Force Hammer you don't have an easy way of dealing with conjurations, corporeal or otherwise. You also have almost a complete lack of armor, other than inefficient Hand of Bim-Shallas. I don't see a reason for Mongoose Agility when you can fairly easily remove guards with Pull and Push.
Overall, it adds up to a rather small spellbook and without much in terms of attack spells, I can't imagine how you get enough dice to compete. Sure you have Bear Strength and such but I just don't see this winning against mages that naturally have higher health, a melee skill, and more attack spells and more creatures.
I'd really recommend putting at least more attack spells in. The number one thing the FM struggles with is sufficient dice and without enough attack spells I can't see this build getting there.
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But it becomes visible when it attacks right, so don't i have to attack a guard because its not elusive anymore?
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No, he doesn't become visible for the purpose of game affects until after the attack.
Think of it like this. He sneaks past the guard attacks the opposing mage and is now visible for all to see.
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@ reddawn
i am rather focused on preventing damage, forcemaster ability, forcefields, ... so i don't need heal nor do i like it (except when i play the priestess).
Conjurations are not a problem: i have enough attack power to slice it in half with my sword. Battle forge (6life, 4armor) is death in 1 attack.
I get the invisible fist, it is mana-efficient and at a low cost. I will consider it. It will add to my beatdown but it uses a quick-action, that i could spent better to counter cards.
Mongoose agility i need in the deck, otherwise i will be spending a quick action every round to force pull. But what if the opponent mage is in the same zone and another creature guards ...
Like i mentioned earlier: i defeated the PRIESTESS (which is healing constantly), with around 36 life with her ability. When i am ready for the big attack, even the priestess losses in 2-3 round. The battling can start turn 3 with a decent amount of dice. If i use 4 rounds to build up, i will be at my maximum capacity of dice which include bear strength +2, 2 temples bim-shalla +2, gauntlets +1, force blade (4 dice attack piercing +2 or 4dice attack sweeping/double strike), dancing scimitar +3 attack dice separately, and then i have a thougthspore ready for use with battle furry and 1 mana on it, and ready to use. I am well in range and even fast with cheetah speed)
So my mage rolls 9 dice with piercing +2 or i can double strike (again 4 dice), then second attack with battle furry to do 9 dice of damage with +2 piercing. Then again another 3 dice attack from dancing scimitar. So best-case-scenario , i rolled 25 dice in one turn!
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Okay thanks Tacullu64! Good to know.
How do you feel about the invisible stalker? When to cast/when is he good/ against what deck/...
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If you're going super-agreessive, try a few Decoys to help prevent attacks and maybe a Block or 2 also.
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I haven't played with Invisible Stalker yet, but He seems incredibly vulnerable to a Wizard. Even without Lighting Bolt or similar spells, Arcane Zap is just too efficient against him.
As for other matchups, I'd expect him to be pretty good, but it's hard to tell without trying it out.
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As sdougla2 said, he is vulnerable to wizards and I would add in other Forcemaster's could make short work of him, if they can attack him, both would have to be holding mage actions to attack him. The wizard could just save his quickcast for the arcane zap. Air Wizards would be the worst. Electrify could be particularly troublesome. If he could avoid getting attacked by another Forcemaster he could be effective in the mirror match.
When to cast is more difficult. Generally an aggressive creature would work better the sooner you got him out and started applying pressure with it. The stalker cost 15 mana and has that upkeep though and you've got a bit of build up you plan on doing. I would say based on the match up you'll have to decide early, by the second round whether or not you will use him that game. There could be games where circumstances dictate bringing him out later, but that would be situational. In either case you don't want him sitting around doing nothing while you continue to pay his upkeep. When you use him you will have probably decided you don't have time for your desired build up.
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Your right DarthDadaD20, he is great but:
at the time that i could summon him i should be attacking because i am at my max attack power. I understand thats its a good card but its expensive and takes a full action. I use it mostly when playing against buff mage or something. I always wait for the last moment to attack with him. My opponent is also a decent player so he always keep 1 decent creature to attack the stalker when he is visible. He guards a lot with other creatures and guard is a real pain for the invisible stalker.
Thats why you use force pull! ;) I love force pull SO much...My opponent will guard with multiple creatures, I just use force pull and laugh!
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I love force pull to! Its great for position control. How ever, i think that mongoose agility is a must. When you are already in the same zone as opponent to hit with double strike, you must have a way to counter creatures guarding.
But yah, force pull is great :d
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I think it was mentioned above, Force Ring would be a good addition. You've only got 8 force spells but if you're using Force Pull you can use the FR to make it mana free. It should easily save you mana over the course of the game.
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I understand what your saying but mana isn't really a problem. Because i focus on attacking, i am saving mana. Never had problems with mana. I understand that its a useful card.
When i am going to include battle forge is will consider force ring.
Because i am so focused on attacking, i only have 1 quick action to activate a spell. I think it would be better to use that quick cast to counter the strategy of opponent.
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Even with the upkeep of multiple spells.....I have yet to be mana starved in any way with the force master...not even with thougtspore letting lose.
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I Agree!
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Greetings,
Here's my idea for a Forcemaster deck that pushes/pulls opposing creatures into a designated area (ideally a corner section of the map) surrounded by Wall of Pikes, where the pikes are facing inward...
Push, Pull, or Drag It In (120pts)
Equipment:
Dancing Scimitar x1 2pts
Defense Ring x1 2pts
Force Ring x1 1pt
Galvitar x1 3pts
Leather Boots x1 1 pt
Leather Gloves x1 1 pt
Psi-Orb x1 2pts
Storm Drake Hide x1 2pts
Conjurations:
Mana Crystal x2 4pts
Suppression Orb x1 2pts (maybe to go into the Kill Area)
Wall of Pikes x4 8pts
Creatures:
Invisible Stalker x1 5pts
Psylok x4 8pts
Thoughtspore x4 8pts
Enchantments:
Block x3 3pts
Charm x24pts
Cheetah Speed x1 2pts
Decoy x3 3pts
Force Crush x2 6pts
Force Hold x2 4pts
Force Orb x2 2pts
Forcefield x1 4pts
Mind Control x2 12pts
Mind Shield x2 2pts
Reverse Attack x2 4pts
Incantation:
Force Bash x2 4pts
Force Push x2 2pts
Force Wave x2 2pts
Repulse x2 2pts
Steal Equipment x1 3pts
Attack:
Force Hammer x4 8pts
Invisible Fist x4 4pts
Any feedback is welcome, just don't be a jerk about it. This is my first attempt to design my own deck.
Thanks,
Poppabear
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It looks like you are missing some basic utitlity cards, and have a bit too much redundancy in a few areas.
I think you have a bit too much redundancy in the following areas: Block/Reverse Attack/Forcefield, Force Hold/Force Crush, Force Hammer/Invisible Fist, and Thoughtspores.
Reducing yourself to 1 Forcefield, 1-2 Block, and 1-2 Reverse Attacks would free up a little space. The other thing is that people often focus on unavoidable attacks against the FM, in which case Block and Reverse Attack become fairly weak.
You probably only need 2 of Force Holds and/or Force Crushes. 4 seems like a bit much.
If you reduce yourself to 4-5 attack spells, you'll have a bit more room. How often do you see yourself using all of them? I'd use maybe 3 Invisible Fists and 2 Force Hammers.
You probably only need 2 Thoughtspores. It's very difficult to support more than that in terms of mana.
You could also probably remove a copy of Force Orb, or at least replace it with Force Sword so that you can stack them.
I haven't figured out how I feel about running 2 Mind Controls. It's pretty expensive, but Mind Control can be really good too. An alternative control card you could try is Sleep. I haven't tried it yet, but I suspect Sleep on a Thoughtspore would be pretty good.
I think Nullify is much more flexible and generally useful than Mind Shield.
You should probably try to make room for at least 2 Dispels, 1 Dissolve, 1 Teleport (Teleport can accomplish some things that push effects can't), 1 Knockdown and 1 Battle Fury.
I'd also try to find room for a Regrowth Belt, an Elemental Cloak, and a Bear Strength, and switch the Leather Gloves for Gauntlets of Strength.
I haven't really tried using Psyloks, so I'm not sure how well that will out work.
Overall this build looks much more control focused than my FM build.
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When I played the FM, this is the strategy I used, the Warlock really really wanted to get out of the corner! I also threw down a Mangler Caltrops in the corner. But your book looks real good. I am not sure if you should be quite so heavy with creatures. I would focus on getting out a couple of piece of equipment and get the walls up like you said. After that, I would use my quick cast action to work the Push, Pull, Drag it strategy.
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Ok it's a good idea but teleport just gets your mage out of the corner if he has Los without going thu the pikes, at least that is wat i understand when I read teleport.
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Try to cut the psilocks....they are not so good creatures...as sdougla2 mentioned, try to reduce your attack spells...4 would be just fine....2 mind controls are too expensive....replace one with a sleep...i have tied it on a thought spore and it works just fine!!!!! you definitely need 1 more dancing scimitar...it is a real life saver and can improve your attack too since it is autonomous and attacks on its own...and i believe you muxt add a Cobra reflexes there!!!!! it is so good with Forcemaster
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It looks like I will be judging for most of Origins so I will post my tourney build with and without promos. My build can kill on turn 4+ :o
9D + 4D + 9D + 3D
0-50 dmg on turn 4 avg is 25 dmg on an unarmored targe
If you wait till turn 5 you can do
10D + 4D + 10D + 3D
0-54 dmg on turn 5 avg is 27 dmg on an unarmored target
You have to remember this is not a fun build when I get home or if I have time during lunch I will post the build.
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It looks like I will be judging for most of Origins so I will post my tourney build with and without promos. My build can kill on turn 4+ :o
9D + 4D + 9D + 3D
0-50 dmg on turn 4 avg is 25 dmg on an unarmored targe
If you wait till turn 5 you can do
10D + 4D + 10D + 3D
0-54 dmg on turn 5 avg is 27 dmg on an unarmored target
You have to remember this is not a fun build when I get home or if I have time during lunch I will post the build.
Color me intrigued.
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I see how you can do that, but I'm trying to think of a more efficient way to get those last few points of strength on the 9-10 dice attacks. The only way I can think of at the moment is Hand of Bim-Shalla, which isn't as efficient as Bear Strength or Gauntlets of Strength. I like Thoughtspore with Battle Fury, since you get to do something similar to the attack spread you mentioned every turn (once you're setup) without using your QC.
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The trick with hand is the utility it provides. I can up my attack or heal when I can't catch the target this turn. Yes for pure dice bear strength is better. My normal on is Hand, move, Hand or Hand, move, Galv.
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Just a question, how did you get the second 9D or 3rd atk because i see 3 but not 4 attacks.
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Battle Fury.
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Sounds like Shadows FM needs an Agony.....and a teleport away from me and need to kill the Hand cubed :)
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Ok I just tried that fast kill move right now, and we found some flaws and came up with a question.......how do you protect your thoughtspore from a ranged attack spell and i say that because the spore is sooo important for that fast combo.
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The trick with hand is the utility it provides. I can up my attack or heal when I can't catch the target this turn. Yes for pure dice bear strength is better. My normal on is Hand, move, Hand or Hand, move, Galv.
The nice about Hand(s) vs. Bear is they can't be Dispelled. Your opponent has to use actions to destroy the Hand(s)or he/she just has to live with them.
I am (and so is my buddy who I primarily play against) a stickler that the effect of Hand to grant the Melee +1 (or other option(s)) is done before the announcement of the attack. Afterwards, its too late! Sorry too bad so sad!
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Ya those "before action" spells are very useful, i just know hand.......are their any others?
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Look through your Conjurations......that where they live.
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I found some but their is nothing like hand :'(
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After the league this week I hope to post my build and match results.
Any luck with your league Shad0w? What did you run?
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I run aggro FM and change it up once a week so it is hard to meta against. Technically I play all 6 mages but I enjoy FM the most.
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How often do you loose? I am guessing it is the rare game.....
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How often do you loose? I am guessing it is the rare game.....
Less than once a month. (unless I am teaching)
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I run aggro FM and change it up once a week so it is hard to meta against. Technically I play all 6 mages but I enjoy FM the most.
What does aggro FM consist of? Is it like the OP's build? Earlier in thread you said you would post your build :P
I feel like FM is least discussed mage so I am eager to see other people's successful builds. ;D
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Well Sorry but I was asked not to post it at this time. But several of the card have already been talked about.
It is currently being looked at by the testers and AW team(once I have time to post it for them)
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Well Sorry but I was asked not to post it at this time. But several of the card have already been talked about.
It is currently being looked at by the testers and AW team(once I have time to post it for them)
Who asked you not to post it, and why?
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Koz that is for another time. Lets just leave it at that for now.
Back to to OP Do you have access to promos?
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Since this will not affect the current discussion we are having in the PT forum.
This weeks FM beatdown build
Equipment
1 Galvitar (core) 3
1 Force Ring (core) 1
2 Elemental Cloak (meta) 4
1 Storm Drake hide (meta) 2
1 Dragonscale Hauberk (meta) 2
1 Leather Boots (meta) 1
1 Regrowth Belt (meta) 2
2 Dancing Scimmitar (core) 4
1 Psi-Orb (core) 2
1 Defense Ring (meta) 2
1 Gauntlets of Strength (core) 2
2 Mage Wand (meta) 8
33 points
21 points of meta
Conjurations
3 Hand of Bim-Shalla (core) 6
1 Temple of the Dawnbreaker (meta) 4
1 Mordok's Obelisk (meta) 4
1 Mana Prism (meta) 4
1 Gravikor (meta) 4
1 Suppression Orb (meta) 2
24 points
18 points of meta
Creature
1 Invisible Stalker (core) 5
5 points
Enchantments
1 Force Orb (meta) 1
2 Force Field (core) 8
1 Force Sword (meta) 1
2 Bear Strength (core) 4
2 Lion Savagery (core) 4
1 Vampirism (meta) 4
24 points
6 points of meta
Incantations
3 Dispel (meta) 6
3 Force Push (core) 3
3 Dissolve (meta) 6
3 Force Wave (meta) 3
2 Repulse (meta) 2
2 Battle Fury (Core) 4
3 Seeking Dispel (meta) 6
1 Whirling Strike (meta) 4
34 points
27 points of meta
120 points
72 points of meta in this build
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Shad0w, I really like that. The fact that you change so much around every week must be brutal on your locals.
My locals, so far, still just use my stuff. Our store is having trouble with Alliance...go figure. I don't feel right about changing the books until these guys get their own copy.
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Once you have a set core build it is easy to change up.
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I think its a neat build! The two biggest things I see that are different from other builds is the lack of Thoughtspores, or a way to gain Elusive (Falcon Precision / Evasive?) to get around mass Guarding.
A smaller query, I don't see any Nullify or other way to prevent your Enchantments / Equipment from being destroyed. Do you find it not worthwhile to put in preventative measures?
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I reality you never have more than 2-4 equips on. The important equips and enchants have a second copy for this reason. The Goal in this style build is to kill them as fast as possible. You do not let them have time to get an army out. One of you biggest tools is you can force pull for free using Force Ring. You must be hyper aggressive if they do get 2-3 guards out use Force Wave or Force Push to pick out the mage. Another thing most of you will notice is the lack of attack spells the reason behind this is unless they are from the earth school attacks are not currently action efficient. If they use an Iron Golem you can walk away from it due to the fact it is slow on turn you are not able to attack heal with Hand or use the armor with Hand. If you have not won by turn 10-12 you will most likely loose.
My biggest problem with Nullify is the fact it is mandatory. I hate mandatory cards if my nullify gets wasted on a card like decoy I just lost an action. What I would recommend is play this build at a local level try it out and try to understand my choices. To get good with a hyper aggressive build like this will take about 5-10 games remember to read the board state and take the time to analyze every play use the option to pass on taking actions until you can understand what the other players plan for the round is. You have 3 Dispels and 3 Seeking Dispels you must use them sparingly.
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BTW I have gone entire match and not equipped armor. Do not use Vampirism till you have about 45-55% damage on you.
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Shad0w,
Whats you starting build look like?
Round 1- bimshalla + bimshalla
Round 2 - Galvatar + bimshalla
Round 3- bear strength + dancing scimitar
Round 4- gauntlets + "a giant kick in the teeth to the enemy"!!!
With battle fury, that'd give you the following attack dice:
10 + 4 + 10 + 3 = 27 dice!
Add in a thought spore w/ invisible fist, and its 31 dice!
Is that about right?
How do you catch/tie down an enemy mage that runs from you the entire game...? I don't see any forcehold, tangle vines or even cheetah speed in your build.
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Remember 2 things if they are running unless they are the BM they cant cast creatures, and unless they are elusive you hinder the other mage so you can Force Pull them back. The real lethality in this build is in the speed you can deal out the damage. I do enjoy watching people try to out run the FM.
If you look I have about 60-70 points to play with so you can easily swap in the tools that best fit your local meta. One of the things I have found is that if the other player has never played against this style build they try to go one on one and end up dead.
When looking to fight against a build like this you want to buy 2-3 turns so that you can summon some creatures.
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I rush them turn 3 or 4 so they can do that.
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Shad0w,
Whats you starting build look like?
Round 1- bimshalla + bimshalla
Round 2 - Galvatar + bimshalla
Round 3- bear strength + dancing scimitar
Round 4- gauntlets + "a giant kick in the teeth to the enemy"!!!
With battle fury, that'd give you the following attack dice:
10 + 4 + 10 + 3 = 27 dice!
Add in a thought spore w/ invisible fist, and its 31 dice!
Is that about right?
How do you catch/tie down an enemy mage that runs from you the entire game...? I don't see any forcehold, tangle vines or even cheetah speed in your build.
If we use your opening
1: 20 Manna - 2 hands at 10 mana
2: 20 Manna - Galv + hand at 16
3: 14 Manna - BS + DS at 8
4: 16 Manna - Gaunt at 8 (or use BF for the extra attack)
That was out of memory so may be a bit off By round 4 you should have 1 reactive spell like Seeking Dispel and a aggressive spell like battle fury (or if they started to place guards pick the correct force move for the situation. ) One of the things I added to this build and you should also is the boot that give a mage unmovable. You give them to the other player and repulse or force wave and the stay while everything else moves.
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I think its a neat build! The two biggest things I see that are different from other builds is the lack of Thoughtspores, or a way to gain Elusive (Falcon Precision / Evasive?) to get around mass Guarding.
A smaller query, I don't see any Nullify or other way to prevent your Enchantments / Equipment from being destroyed. Do you find it not worthwhile to put in preventative measures?
Falcon Precision / Evasive = I used to run both but I switch it up every week so I choose none of this week. I don't care about winning the league. Before I was going to Judge Origins I was going to play this style build so I wanted to see how my choice are different when I do not have access to the tools I want. I may be in a match with all copies of Falcon Precision / Evasive used up so then I need a new plan of attack. So I practiced playing without them. Yes it make it harder but I learn far more without them. They were a crutch and I forced me to play better.
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one of the things I added to this build and you should also is the boot that give a mage unmovable. You give them to the other player and repulse or force wave and they stay while everything else moves.
Great thinking, but wouldn't this make them immune to her innate force pull ability??
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Yup you always have a cost for each action you take. When there is no risk to the reward is when thing become unbalanced. ( you can swap then with the basic boots if you need to pull them, or the better play is to pack teleport.)
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Shadow, the thing that most surprised me about your FM build was the lack of Teleports. My FM build is pretty similar in terms of the core strategy, but I include Thoughtspore and a few other things. I don't have as much redundancy in terms of equipment, but I run Teleports, a few attack spells, and more control options.
I'll need to try playing without Falcon Precision/Mongoose Agility at some point to see how that affects my play.
I haven't ended up using Force Pull that much because I often use a Thoughtspore with Teleport for position control.
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I like to do something like:
1 Bimshalla+Bimshalla (and move)
2 Battle Forge+Temple of Light (with a move and, fire Temple of light for 3 dice+daze/stun if in range)
3 Dancing Scimitar from forge, face down enchant of choice, pull and move as needed or double move, attack with scimitar.. fire from Temple of Light
4 Galviatar from Battleforge, quick cast battle fury.. attack,scimitar temple of light
5 Battle forge gives Gauntlets, Reveal Bear Strength if played on round 2.. quick cast a pull or battle fury
6 If there is an open zone, drop another Bim Shalla, otherwise whatever. Start damage control.
potentially gives you (best case scenarios)
3d damage and possible stun on turn 2
3d+3d damage and possible stun on turn 3
6+4+6+3+3 and possible stun on turn 4
9+4+9+3+3 and possible stun on turn 5
10+4+10+3+4 and possible stun on turn 6
Those are attacks that assume you were able to battle fury and doublestrike. sometimes you dont get the mana for a battle fury or the action for the sweep.. thats all just best case scenario.
Then as you move on from there battleforge continues to spit out Gauntlets, rings, armors or whatever your need and Temple of Light gives support fire. I also like to drop a Thoughtspore with an Invisible Fist for a cheap additional 4 Damage Spam
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Yup you always have a cost for each action you take. When there is no risk to the reward is when thing become unbalanced. ( you can swap then with the basic boots if you need to pull them, or the better play is to pack teleport.)
You cant swap an opponents gear.
You can cast equipment on an opponents empty slot, but cannot cast equipment a location that is already taken on another mage.
I presume that rule is there to stop me from constantly unsummoning an opponents weapons and wands by passing them an Ivarian Longbow to clear both hands
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Like I said working from memory - ::)
BTW you can't "currently" swap the gear :o
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Shadow, the thing that most surprised me about your FM build was the lack of Teleports. My FM build is pretty similar in terms of the core strategy, but I include Thoughtspore and a few other things. I don't have as much redundancy in terms of equipment, but I run Teleports, a few attack spells, and more control options.
I'll need to try playing without Falcon Precision/Mongoose Agility at some point to see how that affects my play.
I haven't ended up using Force Pull that much because I often use a Thoughtspore with Teleport for position control.
I choose to play without them for the past few weeks. In my tourney build they are going back in. I just needed to test some other options.
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Shadow,
I played the FM build you posted today, and won against a Beastmaster. Both newish mages for both of us so it took a bit longer to play than normal. I built the spell book this morning and didn't get to study it much. I was able to pull out a win late game. I ran into his swarm mid-game and he got me down to five HP left. I then put on the Regrowth Belt on, cast a Repulse which broke up his swarm. Right before and during that mid-game, I got Vampirism out, and Mordoks Obelisk and Suppression Orb. After the Repulse, I ran two zones away from his critters. He then moved his mage and hit me with a Tanglevine. The with three creatures out, I sucked his mana out from him. He could only move a one or two creatures each turn and in reality, they never were able to get back into the game. He moved his Beastmaster into his zone with me. He only lasted three more rounds. I just started wailing on him. Cast out the Dancing Scimitar, and used my last Battle Fury to take him out. I was very lucky between the Regrowth Belt (too counter the Rot tokens) and Vampirism I was able to finish the game in the high-teens damage. I missed a couple of my "go to" spells but it was nice playing out of my normal box and a win is always nice.
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Shadow what counters do you suggest to that forcemaster strat?
I tried puzzling around with a wizard semi control that uses battleforge (just because i love this spell) on start square with harmonize on.
Depending on who wins initiative round 1 the following rounds will differ.
Anyway, its about using teleport traps, mana drains, mana siphon, maybe 1 wall of stone, huginn, the slow enchantment (on FM) and sorta keep building up while the FM is kept out of range until the wiz gains a big enough mana advantage + hugin disolves and dispells the FM etc.
Besides this the spellbook i made has a gorgon archer, alot of lightning attacks and a decent amount of equipment.
I am modifying my untested control wiz spellbook just because i realized that the current build i had was useless against such an offensive powerhouse that ignores upkeep for creatures and pay 1 mana when moving non mage creature etc.
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Sike the best thing is the book is so modal you can actively choose not to play certain cards in it. I do that all the time so I can better understand what each cards does for this build. If you think in this case a card would be nice to have then it is worth thinking about. I have found almost no cards are absolutely required to win.
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Jack the main thing you need to do is buy time. The longer you can keep an aggro build like this from attacking you the better off you are. You need to get 2-3 turns extra before the main attacks start. So instead of being attacked on turn 4 you need to hold them off till turn 6 or 7.
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From my experiences, "Hand-solo" is the easiest build to run with now but it is not unbeatable.
The hands are indeed the most broken cards in the game, and spamming them combined with Battle Fury can seem overwhelming. This has been a popular deckstyle in our local scene.
The "buddy build" is very effective at countering this strategy. You simply summon something big, and spend the rest of the game pestering the opposing mage while your buddy does the damage... When he dies, summon another buddy. Use your turns to keep the opposing mage Agony'd, Dazed, Stunned, Restrained, etc. Don't waste time destroying the hands and make sure you're winning the damage war right away.
The "swarm build" is also fairly effective. You start off losing the damage war, but summon small creatures like mad to keep her hindered. If you can move around summoning many creatures, eventually she will be overwhelmed and the damage war will tilt back in your favor. This leaves her with only full action options like Electrify. Thunderift Falcons are great at surviving an Electrify- barely.
In all options foresight is the key. Successfully predicting what the opponent's next move is will help keep you one step ahead. Never, ever let him get his full attack off. Keep moving, jinxing, blocking, reverse attacking, and try to be unpredictable.
Hand-solo can easily kill your mage in four turns... if you let him.
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Successfully predicting what the opponent's next move is will help keep you one step ahead. Never, ever let him get his full attack off. Keep moving, jinxing, blocking, reverse attacking, and try to be unpredictable.
Hand-solo can easily kill your mage in four turns... if you let him.
Some great advice and worth a sticker.
The reason my build is so tough is that you have 70 points of meat cards to work with. You can pick and choose cards that best fit your local meta.
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Shadow,
The cards I was missing, were due to my style of play. It was very nice to use a duplicate of someone else's book and play on through it.
I can tell you, Galvitar + Vampirism + Battle Fury = Winner
That is a tough one to over come. Still can't run into a swam with a Steel Claw Grizzly though!
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@sike
What did you drop?
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Sorry, I am being a bit confusing. What I was referring to, was in situation X I would normally play card Y and card Y would be there as I had built the Deck. Since this was a true clone of the book you posted two or three of the cards I would typically turn too were not there. So I was forced to go in a different direction and play the spell book I had. Which was nice as I learned new ways to deal with certain situations.
Like if you are in trouble, during your First Quick Action Phase, cast Repulse and then run in the opposite direction, which will put three spaces between you and your opponent and his critters, giving you a moment of respite.
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Sorry, I am being a bit confusing. What I was referring to, was in situation X I would normally play card Y and card Y would be there as I had built the Deck. Since this was a true clone of the book you posted two or three of the cards I would typically turn too were not there. So I was forced to go in a different direction and play the spell book I had. Which was nice as I learned new ways to deal with certain situations.
Like if you are in trouble, during your First Quick Action Phase, cast Repulse and then run in the opposite direction, which will put three spaces between you and your opponent and his critters, giving you a moment of respite.
Now you are starting to understand new ways to look at the combat. That was what this build was about. This was a way for me to give people the feel of being handed a book from a friend for an event and then finding out it is missing some of the expected tools. If I was going to play this on a competitive level it would include 3 Teleports and 2 Wands of healing and some other stuff. Most of the time people play they just use the same old tools. Playing like this and purposely removing those card will make you look at a match differently.
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If I was going to play this on a competitive level it would include 3 Teleports and 2 Wands of healing and some other stuff.
The wands are for weak/crippled tokens? I've been trying to decide on the right counter for those.
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The wand as Bryan and I made it will get that job done.
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Funny, the Wand of Healing is one of the things I said that I would swap in. The Rot tokens really suck the life out of you. I was missing teleport too, but not sure if it was really needed and if so maybe only one of them.
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Tele is not key but a min you would want 2
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Be careful about using Wand of Healing in this type of build.... If you need to use it, that usually means somethings gone awfully wrong.
Granted, the builds I've played with and against have been quite different than Shadow's, but the same concept.
You want to stick to your main core strategy as much as possible because it takes soo much effort from your opponent to disrupt it. I find many turns playing one card per turn. I pick a plan A and Plan B.
Plan A is usually Battle Fury or an Attack Spell
Plan B is meta... often Seeking Dispel or Teleport depending on what I'm expecting the opposing mage to do.
I try not to spend any actions attacking non-mage creatures, conjurations, or dispelling curses like magebane or agony.
The strongest opposition I've found is the opponent running, blocking, and reverse attacking.
If rot tokens are killing you, try ignoring them and speeding up your gameplay and focus powerful attacks on the mage only.
The beastmaster can attack with 3 bats on turn 2, but even that cannot out damage your blade and battle fury.
If weak tokens are killing you, try to anticipate them early. Yes, a wizard can surprise you with a rouse'd Gorgan... but any Gorgan should only get one attack against this deckstyle. The core strategy takes so little room in these builds, so you have many, many options to deal with threats. (Hint- use cards with big payouts for short time periods)
Also, you can always heal with the hands in a pinch!
Expect many of these builds at the Gencon tournaments! 8)
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From my experiences, "Hand-solo" is the easiest build to run with now but it is not unbeatable.
The hands are indeed the most broken cards in the game, and spamming them combined with Battle Fury can seem overwhelming. This has been a popular deckstyle in our local scene.
I was calling the Hand of Bim Shalla and Battle Fury THE two power cards from the core set way back when the game first came out, and an expansion later it still seems like that is the case. The Hand's are just so versitle, cheap and effective. They should have at least been spell level 2 IMO so that it actually hurt a bit for non-holy mages to put them in their books.
The "swarm build" is also fairly effective. You start off losing the damage war, but summon small creatures like mad to keep her hindered. If you can move around summoning many creatures, eventually she will be overwhelmed and the damage war will tilt back in your favor. This leaves her with only full action options like Electrify. Thunderift Falcons are great at surviving an Electrify- barely.
Another trick against the Forcemaster with swarms is to make use of Charge. Feral Bobcats are great because they are cheap, effective guards with their Defense die and if they get Pushed they hit really hard when they come back in with their Charge trait. This can also work with Foxes and Falcons with Rajan's Fury out. Make that Forcemaster pay for moving your guards out!
In all options foresight is the key. Successfully predicting what the opponent's next move is will help keep you one step ahead. Never, ever let him get his full attack off. Keep moving, jinxing, blocking, reverse attacking, and try to be unpredictable.
I think Jinx is an excellent way to slow the Forcemaster down. If she can't use her quick action to Push or cast Battle Fury or whatever, she will be much less effective. An Agony is also good (as it is against any beat-down build).
As the Priestess, it's worth the 12 mana to Divine Intervention the Forcemaster back to the other side of the board early in the game (like say right when she goes to make her first attack against you). You'll buy yourself an extra 2-3 turns before you're in danger again, giving you more time to get your defenses up.
Also, if the Forcemage is running a bit high on upkeep (like say Forcefield and Dancing Scimitar going), don't be afraid to Dissolve her Forceblade. Yes, it's a Cantrip item, but recasting it should be pretty painful for her because it leaves her less mana and actions to Push or Battle Fury...and if she can't recast it for a turn because she has to save, all the better.
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Koz, I couldn't agree more with everything you said. ;D
I was calling the Hand of Bim Shalla and Battle Fury THE two power cards from the core set way back when the game first came out, and an expansion later it still seems like that is the case. The Hand's are just so versitle, cheap and effective. They should have at least been spell level 2 IMO so that it actually hurt a bit for non-holy mages to put them in their books.
Absolutely. Or create something to slow them down...
Something like:
Incantation
20 Mana- Target Conjuration
Seismic Tremors
Make a 10 attack roll against target conjuration and all other conjurations in the arena with the same name.
Seismic Tremors cost 3 mana less for each additional conjuration.
Another trick against the Forcemaster with swarms is to make use of Charge. Feral Bobcats are great because they are cheap, effective guards with their Defense die and if they get Pushed they hit really hard when they come back in with their Charge trait. This can also work with Foxes and Falcons with Rajan's Fury out. Make that Forcemaster pay for moving your guards out!
I played against a deck dubbed "missiles", who spammed Rajans and just ran around casting foxes & falcons... Very strong against mages who ignore creatures.
I think Jinx is an excellent way to slow the Forcemaster down. If she can't use her quick action to Push or cast Battle Fury or whatever, she will be much less effective. An Agony is also good (as it is against any beat-down build).
As the Priestess, it's worth the 12 mana to Divine Intervention the Forcemaster back to the other side of the board early in the game (like say right when she goes to make her first attack against you). You'll buy yourself an extra 2-3 turns before you're in danger again, giving you more time to get your defenses up.
Also, if the Forcemage is running a bit high on upkeep (like say Forcefield and Dancing Scimitar going), don't be afraid to Dissolve her Forceblade. Yes, it's a Cantrip item, but recasting it should be pretty painful for her because it leaves her less mana and actions to Push or Battle Fury...and if she can't recast it for a turn because she has to save, all the better.
Quote For Truth... Although the Forcemages I've played usually have no problem with mana, so I tend to save the dissolve strategy for turns they have initiative and I'm about to get doublestriked. (make sure you decoy/seeking dispel the turn before on the end turn quickcast). Now that you've dismantled their turn, you've got room all the way into your next initiative before they can equip again.
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What is so interesting about the build, is that Shadow has a small core of about 10-20 cards to do the kill with. The rest are there to counter the others mages style. Mordoks Obelisk and Suppression Orb sucks the oxygen out of the swarm two turns after they come out, the swarming Mage is hurting very badly and must send his beasties out to kill the conjurations (if he can). It would be very very brutal to cast on the FM non-initiative turn Mordoks Obelisk for the final QC. I could see the swam literally evaporate! Boom!
My main thing about countering the FM is if you see Vampirism come out. Next round pull one or two Dispels out (in case on gets countered) and get rid of it, otherwise you will have no chance in hell of winning. I had Vampirism out and did a Battle Fury and at the end of both attacks had removed 12 points of damage (had a great roll with the second attack). Think, that is a 36 damage point swing in one turn. Uber-Brutal!!!!!!
If you are wondering: Galvitar + 3 Hands + Power Strike + Battle Fury = Legen Wait for it.... dary!
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How big of a swarm are you imagining in that scenario? Having 3 or 4 creatures is manageable even with the Obelisk and Orb out and that's really all you need at once. Sure, the mana loss hurts, but it hurt the Forcemaster to cast them too (they're not free after all). It will be several turns before the Forcemaster gets a ROI on those cards
The Obelisk and Orb are an excellent way of keeping a swarm in check and prevent it from getting out of hand in size, but a small "pack" will do ok. I've never had problems maintaining 3 or 4 creatures under those conditions before, although it obviously leaves you with less mana to do other stuff
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3-4 Creatures for a Beastmaster with no Mana buffs (Channeling 9) would start the round with 5-6 mana after upkeep and then if you needed to move each creature 1 space you would be left with 2-3 mana. If I move my FM two spaces one round after a Repulse the creatures are each 3 spaces away for a total of 9 mana to get them back to me. Just movement wise it would take 3 turns and 9 mana (and other 9 mana for Mordok's). If you have saved up some Mana before these conjurations come out, it will quickly be exhausted as you chase me around the board. I would then just move out of the creatures way and teleport myself and the opposing mage to the other side of the board (non-initiative round). Then the Beatdown would proceed. With both of these out, 6-8 mana drain (assuming only 1 move per critter) / round vs. a FM will result in the most violent of deaths.
As for the FM once she gets out past round 4/5 the mana there is just for the counters or Battle Fury buffs. I started banking a lot of Mana at the end part of the game, as I was just going full Melee.
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3-4 Creatures for a Beastmaster with no Mana buffs (Channeling 9) would start the round with 5-6 mana after upkeep and then if you needed to move each creature 1 space you would be left with 2-3 mana. If I move my FM two spaces one round after a Repulse the creatures are each 3 spaces away for a total of 9 mana to get them back to me. Just movement wise it would take 3 turns and 9 mana (and other 9 mana for Mordok's). If you have saved up some Mana before these conjurations come out, it will quickly be exhausted as you chase me around the board. I would then just move out of the creatures way and teleport myself and the opposing mage to the other side of the board (non-initiative round). Then the Beatdown would proceed. With both of these out, 6-8 mana drain (assuming only 1 move per critter) / round vs. a FM will result in the most violent of deaths.
As for the FM once she gets out past round 4/5 the mana there is just for the counters or Battle Fury buffs. I started banking a lot of Mana at the end part of the game, as I was just going full Melee.
Well we could trade "what if" scenario's all day, but I can say I certainly wouldn't chase the Forcemaster three zones with those cards in play. I know you tend to believe that beat-down builds trump all, but I disagree.
Plus, I highly doubt there are many Forcemasters who get both of those cards into play at the same time very often, to be honest. It's a big investment and it will slow their offense.
Shadow, how often do you get both of these out in the same game? Always, often, rarely, or never?
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What you say can be very true. I did not get to the BM as fast as I should of. I ended up in a zone with him and two smallish critters, he then cast Steelclaw and Rouse the Beast. I was working on the BM still but was taking one hell of a beating, after two rounds I threw out the Orb and the Obelisk, and was very close to death at that point. The next round was my initiative, I did the Repulse and run two zones in the opposite direction, and the rest of the game I have already described.
16 Mana is not that much quite honestly for the FM. The only upkeep item I had was the Forcefield. Which cost me 2 / rd while channeling 10. Do nothing but Upkeep for one rd (aka just Melee) and you have the 16 needed.
I am quite impressed with the build and plan to play it with a couple of minor tweaks several more times.
My question to Shadow is have you done a FM vs FM with the same basic kind of build?
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3 Hands + Power Strike + Battle Fury = Legen Wait for it.... dary!
Correct me if I am missing something here, but you can't use power strike and battle fury on the same turn AND still attack.
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Remember 2 things if they are running unless they are the BM they cant cast creatures, and unless they are elusive you hinder the other mage so you can Force Pull them back.
Can't the BM cast level 1 creature spells as a quick action?
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Correct me if I am missing something here, but you can't use power strike and battle fury on the same turn AND still attack.
Shoot I was just coming over to edit and correct. I implied one thing and meant another, and of course mixed things up a bit. I did the Battle Fury one round and the Power the next round...
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Correct me if I am missing something here, but you can't use power strike and battle fury on the same turn AND still attack.
Shoot I was just coming over to edit and correct. I implied one thing and meant another, and of course mixed things up a bit. I did the Battle Fury one round and the Power the next round...
A Thoughtspore could be armed with Power Strike or Battle Fury to cast it for you.
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Correct me if I am missing something here, but you can't use power strike and battle fury on the same turn AND still attack.
Shoot I was just coming over to edit and correct. I implied one thing and meant another, and of course mixed things up a bit. I did the Battle Fury one round and the Power the next round...
A Thoughtspore could be armed with Power Strike or Battle Fury to cast it for you.
Most definitely. And with power strike only costing 2, any thoughtspore with harmonize could cast Power Strike every turn. Shoot. This stuff sounds gamebreaking...
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I wouldnt even waste the time/spellbook cost with the Harmonize. With his own natural Channel its only 1 mana out of pocket if he does it EVERY turn. Any round that he doesnt (due to range or having to deal with dispels/dissloves/moving/LOS) he builds up a free cast.
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Koz,
Another thing to take in to consideration is you need at least 3-4 in your swarm + your mage doing melee in your swarm to get through the FM Forcefield, Deflect, and Dancing Scimitar. Once the mana denial Conjurations come out to squash the swarm you will not have enough mana to deal with everything.
If your creatures go for the conjurations, Force Pull the BM to you and thwack! Move towards the FM and you can't pay for upkeep.
Almost be worth moving to the zone with the Conjuration with the mage and bringing out an Iron Golem :)
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Since I plan on making a Beatdown FM deck, I was wondering how well Battleforge syncs with the FM. I plan on making my FM build very heavy on enchantments, equipment, and incantations. Is it too passive to be casting a Battleforge with Harmonize on Turn 1? My strategy is to then use Battleforge to cast the cheaper equipment spells and/or the equipment spells that I don't necessarily need ASAP: force ring, defense ring, gauntlets of strength, dancing scimitar, regrowth belt.
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In my very limited experience with Force Master, Battle Forge is great, but I'd skip the Harmonize.
A lot of Forcemaster's turns are spent with a Force Pull Quickcast and then a full round double strike attack (with Scimitar too, probably). This is really cheep, and you'll end up with difficulty spending all your mana. The point of playing a Forge in Force Master is that it gives you extra actions to help you spend down that mana, to make your mana consumption and your action consumption equal.
Battle Forge is an investment of one action, that pays off in actions (and a bit of mana).
Harmonize is an investment of one action, that never pays off in actions (but does make some mana, too).
As an agro deck which plans on using Galvitar as often as possible, actions are your limiting factor, not mana.
Just as a weird thought experiment, has anyone built a Forcemaster book that includes a Goblin Builder?
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I know your mage skill and ds are optional defences but is force field optional defences ie if I attack with unavoidable will you still loose a force field token
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Any attack, unavoidable or not, will scrub a token off your Forcefield. You can't chose to take the attack on the chin or to let a defense handle the attack instead of the Forcefield. All attacks go through Forcefield first. In consolation, Forcefield will cancel unavoidable attacks on your Forcemaster, because it works before the cancel attack step.
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In my very limited experience with Force Master, Battle Forge is great, but I'd skip the Harmonize.
A lot of Forcemaster's turns are spent with a Force Pull Quickcast and then a full round double strike attack (with Scimitar too, probably). This is really cheep, and you'll end up with difficulty spending all your mana. The point of playing a Forge in Force Master is that it gives you extra actions to help you spend down that mana, to make your mana consumption and your action consumption equal.
Battle Forge is an investment of one action, that pays off in actions (and a bit of mana).
Harmonize is an investment of one action, that never pays off in actions (but does make some mana, too).
As an agro deck which plans on using Galvitar as often as possible, actions are your limiting factor, not mana.
Just as a weird thought experiment, has anyone built a Forcemaster book that includes a Goblin Builder?
Thanks for the solid advice. I will be sure to skip harmonize then.
Also, I haven't heard of anyone putting Goblin Builders in their spellbook. In my opinion they are entirely worthless. They WOULD be useful if they could effectively heal conjurations, but the ability to remove only 1 damage from a conjuration is a joke. I wish they could remove 2d damage from a conjuration or something like that.
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Yeah, I'm looking at the card again and what really kills him is the requirement that it be a Full Action at a range of 0-0. This means that for he can only cast a zone exclusive conjuration every 2nd turn (1 to move, one to cast). If he had range 0-1, or a quick action, he'd be the lowest mana-cost source of extra actions in the game, even if he lacked channeling. Sadly, as a creature, it takes a full action to cast him, so you can't cast him on the run, even. Battle Forge really is just much better.
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Yeah, I'm looking at the card again and what really kills him is the requirement that it be a Full Action at a range of 0-0. This means that for he can only cast a zone exclusive conjuration every 2nd turn (1 to move, one to cast). If he had range 0-1, or a quick action, he'd be the lowest mana-cost source of extra actions in the game, even if he lacked channeling. Sadly, as a creature, it takes a full action to cast him, so you can't cast him on the run, even. Battle Forge really is just much better.
If only we were given a Familiar that could cast Conjuration spells... now that would be cool.
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Now I want a familiar to cast Tanglevines/Quicksands on creatures...
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Dwarf Builder, maybe.
It'd probably have to be Warlord Only. The last thing Forcemaster needs is to be able to cast Hand of Bim-Shalla through a familiar.
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Now I want a familiar to cast Tanglevines/Quicksands on creatures...
I want something like Tanglevine/Quicksand but only targets flying creatures. I hate flyers!
The last thing Forcemaster needs is to be able to cast Hand of Bim-Shalla through a familiar.
Yeah, good point. Making it Warlord exclusive would solve that problem and would fit the Warlord too.
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The only time Ive ever used Goblin Builder to any real success was in a novelty build. I made a Warlock "demon" book, and used a Builder to cast Gate to Hell for me, since its a full round action for my mage to cast it. It also allowed me to cast and open it in the same turn if I chose to drop 24 mana.
If you happen to swarm out a team of 4 or so builders you can use their repair ability to repair conjuration damage in more meaningful chunks, but even that is very situational.
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If you happen to swarm out a team of 4 or so builders you can use their repair ability to repair conjuration damage in more meaningful chunks, but even that is very situational.
That is the problem. You need more than 1 of them in order to be effective. Who in their right minds wants to spend 4 full actions summoning a creature that has 1 very specific purpose and can easily be killed?
You done goof'd, game developers.
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Smells like a last minute nerf they knew they wouldn't have time to playtest, so had to be extra thorough. Just guessing, though. Maybe someone built a really killer warlord conjurations book that we just haven't found yet.
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My experience with the FM is that you want a quick kill. Battleforge would work but might not make a great return if you meet your objective. You don't need to equip much in this kind of build. If you get the chance play test Shad0ws build. Actions are most precious in a rush....
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My experience with the FM is that you want a quick kill. Battleforge would work but might not make a great return if you meet your objective. You don't need to equip much in this kind of build. If you get the chance play test Shad0ws build. Actions are most precious in a rush....
I have been working on the FM build in my head lately. I had already decided Battleforge would be too slow.
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Short Answer: BF is one of the best cards for FM. She is rather dependent on Equipment, so having BF out sets you back an opening turn, but gives you so many actions. I mean I cast on average 9-12 pieces of equipment a game (depending on the dissolve rate of my Dancing/Defense Ring. That's 9-12 actions I can use actively attacking. Slow? Nahhh brother man.
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Here is my first ever attempt at a FM build. Instead of just listing the spells I decided to include my own reasoning behind including them, when to play them, etc. I read everyone's advice on the FM carefully and tried to make this build look as original as possible (i.e. not just a rip-off of Shadow's build)
Opening Spells / Early Strategy
Turn1: Force Ring + Psi Orb (cast Ring first)
Turn 2: Defense Ring + Force Orb / Force Sword (choose depending on matchup)
OR
Turn 2: Mordok’s Obelisk and Suppression Orb (if playing against swarm)
Turn 3: Galvitar + Forcefield (face down, reveal it next turn)
Turn 4: Scimitar + Bear Strength (face down, reveal it next turn)
(should start attacking now)
Turn 5: Gauntlets of Strength + Attack
Turn 6: Stromdrake Hide or Dragonscale Hauberk + Attack
Turn 7: Regrowth Belt + Attack
Turn 8: Mage Wand (bind Battle Fury) + Attack
Turn 9+: Use Force Pull + Attack or Battle Fury + Attack when optimal; otherwise, turn to additional enchantments and incantations.
Non-opening Spells / Middle to Late Game Strategy
Charm, Sleep, and Mass Sleep: basic creature control.
Agony, Ghoul Rot: physic-immune and/or immovable creature control.
Maim Wings, Knockdown, Force Hold: flying creature control.
*Force Hold is last resort because grants creature counterstrike.*
Falcon Precision: for FM matchups or opponents that rely a lot on defenses, block, reverse attack, etc.
Cobra Reflexes: mainly to replace your Force Orb/Force Sword (if it gets dispelled).
Dispel and Dissolve: mandatory.
Force Push, Force Wave, Force Bash, Repulse, and Teleport: for positional control.
Vampirism: to put on only when your health is at 50% or worse.
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So u are not playing Hands at all?
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Smells like a last minute nerf they knew they wouldn't have time to playtest, so had to be extra thorough. Just guessing, though. Maybe someone built a really killer warlord conjurations book that we just haven't found yet.
I knew in that state it was unplayable but people argued against the version Heat and I voted for. I can not say what it was because it may get used later.
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The reason I use hand is for 5 mana it has some of the best utility in the game.
I have a final build that I will bring down but will not post till after the show. 8)
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Cool. Looking forward to that.
After show u mean Origins?
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Smells like a last minute nerf they knew they wouldn't have time to playtest, so had to be extra thorough. Just guessing, though. Maybe someone built a really killer warlord conjurations book that we just haven't found yet.
I knew in that state it was unplayable but people argued against the version Heat and I voted for. I can not say what it was because it may get used later.
I can sympathize with this quite a bit since I have quite a bit of playtest experience (for several AEG games, FFG games and many old FASA games). It can be tough to get people to see that a particular game aspect is underpowered/overpowered mostly due to the fact that playgroups differ so dramatically in both skill level and playstyles.
I had a feeling looking at the Goblin Builder that there was a "better version" out there somewhere that didn't see print due to playtest concerns. Unfortunately a sub-par card ended up seeing print, but that happens.
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@ Devil and Koz: Yup
@Koz
Brent Keith from AEG used to play at one of the shops in the area. We have had to talk to John Zinser before.
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@ Devil and Koz: Yup
@Koz
Brent Keith from AEG used to play at one of the shops in the area. We have had to talk to John Zinser before.
Brent was awesome when he was working on Warlord for AEG and Zinser is just a great guy, he really cares about his games, is very interactive with the fans, and goes out of his way to "do the right thing". I love AEG, always have.
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Shadow's FM build seems to have a super aggressive opening. I'm wondering if it is viable to do something different, like spend the first 3 turns shrouding yourself with defenses and protection and THEN switching to offense. Maybe something like:
Turn 1: Force Ring, Defense Ring
Turn 2: Psi-Orb, Forcefield (face down)
Turn 3: Cobra Defenses, Dancing Scimitar, (flip up Forcefield)
At this point, you have Forcefield and 3 Defenses up. Then you start bringing out the goods: Galvitar, Mage Wand (+BF), Hands of Bim-Shalla, Bear Strength, Gauntlets of Strength. While you are gearing up, you can use positional spells to keep the opponent at bay. After that you could either buff up your defense with things like stormdrake hide, dragonscale hauberk, regrowth belt, force orb/force sword.... OR you could go all out with the Battle Fury + Galvitar / Force Pull + Galvitar combos.
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U have 3 + forcefield - FM has it's own defense, Scimitar can defense, Cobra Reflexes and finaly Forcefield.
But u can use just 1 defense per atack, so with this u expect to be hit 3 times a round to use all defenses (without Forcefield which is not really defense but is canceling attacks and it must cancel it before u can use any defense).
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On one hand, I want to run armor and regrowth belt with the FM because those will always work. On the other hand, if I don't run a lot of Defenses I feel like I am not getting the most out of the FM's abilities :-\
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Sauce,
From what I played the idea is to "get" there but not early like you typically would. Once you get past the open (3-4 rds) you should be attacking and that will leave you a QC to continue to build up on the equipment....
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Battle Forge. The best Forcemaster card ever. Letting you cast battle fury round three 100 percent of the time, all the time (tm).
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Sauce,
From what I played the idea is to "get" there but not early like you typically would. Once you get past the open (3-4 rds) you should be attacking and that will leave you a QC to continue to build up on the equipment....
But wouldn't that QC be better spent on Battle Fury?
Battle Forge. The best Forcemaster card ever. Letting you cast battle fury round three 100 percent of the time, all the time (tm).
Battle Forge is mentioned frequently, so I will try it. The thing is, there are certain equipment spells I will need to put on ASAP (force ring, galvitar, psi-orb, dancing scimitar) before attacking. Battle Forge won't be able to help too much when it comes to these spells.
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While very true Battle Fury is needed as a part of the attack strategy, if you spam it, counter measures will be taken. But If you drop some equipment then pull out the Battle Forge at random it is a lot harder to plan for and counter...
note to self it is easy to mix up BF for Battle Forge/Battle Fury....
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You don't really need Psi-Orb, Dancing Scimitar, or Force Ring. They're good cards, but they're not mandatory like Galvitar is.
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You don't really need Psi-Orb, Dancing Scimitar, or Force Ring. They're good cards, but they're not mandatory like Galvitar is.
I agree, early in the game they are not needed. But if the game gets out a bit longer then you can start dropping them as needed.
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You don't really need Psi-Orb, Dancing Scimitar, or Force Ring. They're good cards, but they're not mandatory like Galvitar is.
Psi-Orb: agree. I can equip that once upkeep starts becoming a problem.
Dancing Scimitar: I would like to cast it sooner than later, but I can understand leaving it out of the opening.
Force Ring: This I disagree on. My reasoning is that the quicker you get out Force Ring the better. It saves you 1 mana for every force spell you cast, so why not get it out before you cast any other force spells?
As far as creatures go, I am pretty indecisive. Are thoughtspores helpful? I was thinking of running 2 and binding force push or knockdown to them. I know Invisible Stalker looks cool and all, but I am currently convinced that he is only helpful against creature-light builds. Is it better to bring him out early or late? If I am playing against a BM I plan on conjuring Mordok's Obelisk and Suppression Orb instead of bringing out any creatures at all.
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I have played the FM vs BM match. The conjurations are great once the BM gets some critters out, if you pop it right off the bat you are going to force a few big from him instead. Force Ring is good to Equip but I am looking at your first five opening (with some edits):
Turn1: Force Ring + Psi Orb (cast Ring first) - Force / Mana
Turn 2: Defense Ring + Force Orb / Force Sword (choose depending on matchup) - War / Force, Defense or Force
Turn 3: Galvitar + Forcefield (face down, reveal it next turn) - Force / Force
Turn 4: Scimitar + Bear Strength (face down, reveal it next turn)
Turn 5: Gauntlets of Strength + Attack
There are 4 Force Spells you are going to cast after the Ring which costs 3 Mana (and an Action) to save 4 Mana, it might be worth it if the 1 saved Mana is more valuable than the action used to cast the Force Ring.
Now once later into the game if your were to move Turns 1 and 2 in to a Post opening period it might make more sense as then you can add in your Force Crush/Holds etc into the saving mix.....
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I have played the FM vs BM match. The conjurations are great once the BM gets some critters out, if you pop it right off the bat you are going to force a few big from him instead. Force Ring is good to Equip but I am looking at your first five opening (with some edits):
Turn1: Force Ring + Psi Orb (cast Ring first) - Force / Mana
Turn 2: Defense Ring + Force Orb / Force Sword (choose depending on matchup) - War / Force, Defense or Force
Turn 3: Galvitar + Forcefield (face down, reveal it next turn) - Force / Force
Turn 4: Scimitar + Bear Strength (face down, reveal it next turn)
Turn 5: Gauntlets of Strength + Attack
There are 4 Force Spells you are going to cast after the Ring which costs 3 Mana (and an Action) to save 4 Mana, it might be worth it if the 1 saved Mana is more valuable than the action used to cast the Force Ring.
Now once later into the game if your were to move Turns 1 and 2 in to a Post opening period it might make more sense as then you can add in your Force Crush/Holds etc into the saving mix.....
I was also considering this opening, which I posted earlier:
Turn 1: Force Ring, Defense Ring
Turn 2: Psi-Orb, Forcefield (face down)
Turn 3: Cobra Defenses, Dancing Scimitar, (flip up Forcefield)
Of course, you guys have convinced me to use Battleforge, so I don't know as of know if I like this opening. Maybe this would work better:
Turn 1: Battleforge
Turn 2: Galvitar
Turn 3: Forcefield
From there I guess I'll improvise.
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I have a final build that I will bring down but will not post till after the show. 8)
Show is over :). Time to uncover cards :).
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I finally have a FM build I am pleased with. Instead of just listing the cards by type I think I will list them based on function.
>>>Turn 1 Spells:
1x Force Ring
1x Psi Orb
>>>1st Tier Offense:
1x Galvitar, Force Blade
1x Invisible Stalker
2x Dancing Scimitar
>>>2nd Tier Offense:
2x Bear Strength
2x Hand of Bim-Shalla
1x Gauntlets of Strength
2x Falcon Precision
>>>1st Tier Defense:
2x Forcefield
1x Stormdrake Hide
1x Dragonscale Hauberk
>>>2nd Tier Defense:
1x Regrowth
1x Regrowth Belt
4x Minor Heal
>>>3rd Tier Defense:
2x Force Orb
2x Force Sword
1x Defense Ring
>>>Non-creature Control:
3x Dispel
3x Dissolve
2x Seeking Dispel
>>>1st Tier Creature Control:
2x Sleep
4x Charm
>>>2nd Tier Creature Control:
4x Force Push
>>>3rd Tier Creature Control:
4x Force Hammer
>>>Movement / Zone Control:
2x Teleport
4x Force Bash
2x Knockdown
2x Force Hold
(Force Pull fits under this category)
I initially had the spells Force Wave and Repulse but took them out since I never found myself needing them. I think Force Pull is one of the most useful "movement/zone control" spells to be honest.
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Dear Mr. Shad0w,
Will you be posting your build and match results any time soon? I'm really curious to see what has changed from your build that was previously posted. I would also be very curious to know which wins and losses were against which mage/strategy and to understand against what kind of things you had problems with.
I've looked over your original deck list many times and in reading your succeeding comments I know about a few cards that you mentioned you usually run with such as Falcon Precision, Mongoose Agility and Teleport but my question is how do you deal with flyers? It seems the obvious answer is that you don't and instead just focus all on the enemy mage. If things get a little out of hand you have various equipments and enchantments to help you such as various armors/cloaks, forcefield, vampirisim and many other things. The problem I see is when faced against not just any flyers but the ones such as Valshalla or Samandriel. The kind that do pretty decent damage but more importantly have a fairly good chance to Daze or Stun you. It would seem Daze and Stun is just as devastating to the Forcemaster as the Weak tokens from the Gorgon Archer are. (Of course you can attack the Archer but based on your decklist you can't really do anything against those daze/stun flyers. Missing or not being able to attack a turn with the Forcemaster seems pretty huge. Not only that but if this happens it gives the opposing mage more time to 'do stuff' which is exactly what we don't want which is why we rush over there to end the game as fast as possible in the first place.
Now if some kind of flyer handling is needed then what do you think would be the best course of action? One route could be the charm, sleep or mind control route, the other could be running maim wings or eagle wings but all of these options take up quite a bit of spellbook points... Of course as you pointed out for your decklist there are only 'some' core spells and the rest are meta but when I built my own version 'based' on your deck I have a hard time deciding what could possibly be worth removing to add in these flyer handling cards.
I would really like to understand what you think about this. Thanks a bunch for your time!
Alpha
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my question is how do you deal with flyers?
Here are some ways the FM can deal with flyers with mind spells (in no particular order):
1) Force Hammer: not the best option, but still an option nonetheless.
2) Charm / Mind Control: not specific to flyers but still counts as general creature control.
3) Sleep: in the same realm as Charm/Mind Control.
4) Force Hold / Force Crush: flyers lose flying when they are restrained.
5) Knockdown: incapacitated creatures lose flying.
Of course, there are other ways to deal with flyers. I recommend checking this out:
http://magewars.com/jsite/strategy-guides/item/84-strategy-guide-example
Good luck!
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Also Shad0w has Gravikor in his build he posted here.
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As the great Homer Simpson says...mmmm Gravikor!
This better be in the next expansion! Galidor pfft!
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I have a final build that I will bring down but will not post till after the show. 8)
Show is over :). Time to uncover cards :).
If I have time this week . I will list the build I played against Padawan.
(Sunfire does work BTW. I wanted to test it and it did pay off.)
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Sunfire is a definite one of. The build is strong, but more combo than aggro.
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I agree in essence it is a 1-3 hit combo deck (since damage rolls are random)
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I changed two things about my FM that seemed to help a lot:
1) Dropping Defenses from my spellbook entirely
2) Putting on armor BEFORE casting Forcefield
I realized that with enough armor, health regeneration, Vampirism, and Forcefield, Defenses like Force Orb/Force Sword really become last tier protection. I just don't think the FM needs any Defenses other than her natural one.
I also realized that opponents were dispelling Forcefield very early on and getting a free shot as me when I was armorless. So, I have started putting on armor before casting Forcefield and it has helped me out quite a bit.
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Sunfire is a definite one of. The build is strong, but more combo than aggro.
What 'sunfire' stands for?
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Sunfire Amulet from the new Conquest of Kumanjaro expansion. It reads:
At the beginning of each upkeep, Mage gains one life.
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Dear Mr. Shad0w,
Will you be posting your build and match results any time soon? I'm really curious to see what has changed from your build that was previously posted. I would also be very curious to know which wins and losses were against which mage/strategy and to understand against what kind of things you had problems with.
I've looked over your original deck list many times and in reading your succeeding comments I know about a few cards that you mentioned you usually run with such as Falcon Precision, Mongoose Agility and Teleport but my question is how do you deal with flyers? It seems the obvious answer is that you don't and instead just focus all on the enemy mage. If things get a little out of hand you have various equipments and enchantments to help you such as various armors/cloaks, forcefield, vampirisim and many other things. The problem I see is when faced against not just any flyers but the ones such as Valshalla or Samandriel. The kind that do pretty decent damage but more importantly have a fairly good chance to Daze or Stun you. It would seem Daze and Stun is just as devastating to the Forcemaster as the Weak tokens from the Gorgon Archer are. (Of course you can attack the Archer but based on your decklist you can't really do anything against those daze/stun flyers. Missing or not being able to attack a turn with the Forcemaster seems pretty huge. Not only that but if this happens it gives the opposing mage more time to 'do stuff' which is exactly what we don't want which is why we rush over there to end the game as fast as possible in the first place.
Now if some kind of flyer handling is needed then what do you think would be the best course of action? One route could be the charm, sleep or mind control route, the other could be running maim wings or eagle wings but all of these options take up quite a bit of spellbook points... Of course as you pointed out for your decklist there are only 'some' core spells and the rest are meta but when I built my own version 'based' on your deck I have a hard time deciding what could possibly be worth removing to add in these flyer handling cards.
I would really like to understand what you think about this. Thanks a bunch for your time!
Alpha
I have been on call since the show and will not be done July 1st. If I have a slow weekend I will be able to get this posted but I can make no promises. I would like to give you a better answer but I just can not. Sorry for the delay.
As far as fliers go use Gravikor, and Hand of Peace if it is a non tourney game. If it is a tourney style game you can only buy time with Suppression Orb and Mordok's Obolisk they will not win you the game. The biggest trick to a solo style build like this is your kill speed. YOU CAN NOT LET THE OTHER MAGE TURTLE. You should be threatening the kill from turn 4 on. If the other player sets a card it a zone 90% of the time it is a tele trap and you should play accordingly.
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I just tested this deck against Earth Wizard - and lost cause of weaks from Gorgon Archers.
Everything seems ok until i got 2 and then other 2 weaks (10+ from gorgon archers) and was unable to do anything about it and -4 dice is pretty bad for solo aggro mage.
Also i tried to beat him little bit with Invisible Stalker - but after he attacked, wizard casted Sleep on him and that's it. Since he is invisible u cannot attack him to wake him up and u cannot make him visible since he cannot attack cause of sleep :).
Any ideas what to do against gorgon archers?
Also i was playing without teleports but have to include some into to be able to catch wizard using teleports :).
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IS can not be put to sleep, he is non-living. Get the FM in the zone with the archers ASAP and kill kill kill.....not that hard if need Battle Fury them. Plus Forcefield should cancel the initial attacks from GA....
Once FM is in the zone with GA he is no longer in Range. If need Force Pull them into the same zone....
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I just tested this deck against Earth Wizard - and lost cause of weaks from Gorgon Archers.
Everything seems ok until i got 2 and then other 2 weaks (10+ from gorgon archers) and was unable to do anything about it and -4 dice is pretty bad for solo aggro mage.
Also i tried to beat him little bit with Invisible Stalker - but after he attacked, wizard casted Sleep on him and that's it. Since he is invisible u cannot attack him to wake him up and u cannot make him visible since he cannot attack cause of sleep :) .
Any ideas what to do against gorgon archers?
Also i was playing without teleports but have to include some into to be able to catch wizard using teleports :) .
2 Wand of healing in the non tourney build.
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IS can not be put to sleep, he is non-living. Get the FM in the zone with the archers ASAP and kill kill kill.....not that hard if need Battle Fury them. Plus Forcefield should cancel the initial attacks from GA....
Once FM is in the zone with GA he is no longer in Range. If need Force Pull them into the same zone....
Also correct and good advice but remember that each turn you commit to kill GA is 1 more turn the other player has to setup.
Living and Nonliving
All creatures and conjurations are either Living or Nonliving. These are “catch-all” traits that describe certain characteristics of an object. Unless the spell card specifies otherwise, all creatures have the Living trait, and all conjurations have the Nonliving trait.
• Living:
These creatures and conjurations are living things, such as plants or animals. All of the rules apply to Living objects normally. For instance, Living creatures can be healed or put to sleep.
• Nonliving:
These creatures and conjurations are not alive. They may be a machine or some kind of magical construct, or the re-animated skeleton of a dead creature. All Nonliving objects have the following traits: Poison Immunity and Finite Life, in addition to any traits listed on the card.
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Blah pretty bad mistake with IS, cause in that case i could escape and killing him just using IS since he didn't have anything with Ethereal attack.
About GA: I was thinking if i shouldn't try to kill them, but with Regeneration 2 and Armor 1 Live 13 - not easy think. But probably best solution.
Shad0w: What do u sugest about this, since u are not playing wands in tourney build.
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Blah pretty bad mistake with IS, cause in that case i could escape and killing him just using IS since he didn't have anything with Ethereal attack.
About GA: I was thinking if i shouldn't try to kill them, but with Regeneration 2 and Armor 1 Live 13 - not easy think. But probably best solution.
Shad0w: What do u suggest about this, since u are not playing wands in tourney build.
The main issue is that board position plays a heavy roll in the correct line of play. If I can get the GA into my zone or I can get into its zone without over extending I am inclined to do so. At range 0 the GA can't make the ranged attack it should take 1-2 attack chains to kill each GA so you are losing 4-8 turns over the course of a match if you hunt down the GAs. You could try to sleep a GA and see if the other player move in to melee it. If they do use sleep DO NOT pull them, follow into the zone. On the next planing get a Tele and a BF if they run tele them back if they stay use BF and go for the kill shot.
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What I'm hearing is that Forcemaster gets much better when it's playing outside of a tournament. Wand of Healing, Gravikor, and Hand of Peace all help her out a lot.
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What I'm hearing is that Forcemaster gets much better when it's playing outside of a tournament. Wand of Healing, Gravikor, and Hand of Peace all help her out a lot.
Any build is better when you get to play more powerful meta cards. Just to let you know a solo style FM build almost got 1st at origins. Going into the last round if it won it had first
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What I'm hearing is that Forcemaster gets much better when it's playing outside of a tournament. Wand of Healing, Gravikor, and Hand of Peace all help her out a lot.
Any build is better when you get to play more powerful meta cards. Just to let you know a solo style FM build almost got 1st at origins. Going into the last round if it won it had first
Not surprised 8)
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I have a solid routine now. Wake up, drive to work, get a coffee followed by checking the mage wars forums SPECIFICALLY to see if Mr. Shad0w posted his build and strategy in this post. My excitement goes something like this.
Step 1. Pretty excited although super tired as I sip my coffee and enter www.magewars.com into my browser.
Step 2. I click that Forum button as my excited-ness sky rockets followed by the following.
a) I see that the 'Spellbook Design and Construction' red ready marker is not flipped to active and I instantly jump to Step 6. (Read the rest of the post first.. don't jump to Step 6 quite yet)
b) I see that the 'Spellbook Design and Construction' red ready marker IS flipped to active and my heart rate goes to a solid 200. (Note that I'm sitting down...). Lets move to Step 3.
Step 3. THE READY MARKER IS READY. Hit F5 just to make sure I'm not still dreaming. Okay.. still active... lets take a peek at the Last post on the right followed by the following.
a) Mr. Shad0w was not the last person to reply to a thread... Okay okay my heart rate is down 20 points. My excited-ness is a little down. (I'm crying inside). Maybe there were sooo many posters and Mr. Shad0ws just wasn't the last one. Lets move to Step 4.
b) Mr. Shad0w IS the last person to reply. ARE YOU SERIOUS. I do a triple front and back flip at the same time so fast that I don't even move in my chair. (Yeah, crazy I know). My heart rate is up another 20. (Is that healthy?). I then notice that last thread he posted in is not Re: Forcemaster Builds.. I feel a sharp pain in the left side of my body. My cheek feels a bit tingly.. but I have to know.. Proceed 5 spaces to Step 4.
c) Not only is Mr. Shad0w the last person to reply... but the post is Re: Forcemaster Builds. I sprint to my cabinet that is half a meter away from me. I unlock the lock like I'm a thief from ancient days where picklocking was super cool. I grab my mage wars dice (5 of em) and my heart rate goes up by what I rolled times 2 plus 10. (Crits count double). My nose is starting to bleed at this point but who cares! CONTINUE TO STEP 5. I'M ALL IN.
Step 4. I jam my finger down onto that left mouse button clicking the glorious 'Spellbook Design and Construction' button and my hand cramps up followed by the following.
a) The holy grail that is 'Forcemaster Builds' is missing the red 'new' square. What? no.. really? Awww man... Continue to Step 6.. DAMNIT.
b) THERE IS A RED NEW SQUARE NEXT TO 'FORCEMASTER BUILDS'.. Yeah... totally knew today was going to be the day where Mr. Shad0w posts his build.. Why did I even doubt him... he totally told us he was going to post the build. I feel bad.. I can't believe I was a non believer. I then realize my heart rate is still maxed out, my nose is bleeding and I can't feel half my body I HAVE to finish this. Proceed with cheetah speed TO STEP 5!
Step 5. I click 'Forcemaster Builds' swiftly click page 11 and with my Stepmania trained fingers click that Page Down key like it's the hardest song I've ever clicked in my life followed... by???!!!!!!! ... There's no build. I twist my ankle and start feeling stomach pains... Step 6 is all that's left for me.. Please proceed :(.
Step 6. My dreams are shattered. My heart rate stops... what in all the world am I going to do now... WAIT, WHAT IF HE WAS JUST POSTING AS I WAS CHECKING??!! OOHHHH YEEEAAAHHH,,, PROCEED TO STEP 1 BABY!
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Dude I wish I had time BuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
I am 3 people short at work and we did over 200 extra calls. I am working a HUGE strategy and tactics write up. Then We playtesters now have 2 weeks to get the DvN ready for print + planning Gencon. I will most likely be area manager and TO again. So it has been on the back burner. I have not even had time to play MW for fun since the show.
Keep this up and I may have to cast my 20 mana Forget spell.
:P
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Just a quick tip, I always put wings on my GA when playing against the FM. Nothing beats when they bum's rush it and it takes off and shoots weakness into their face.
Make sure to prepare for this!
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IS can not be put to sleep, he is non-living. Get the FM in the zone with the archers ASAP and kill kill kill.....not that hard if need Battle Fury them. Plus Forcefield should cancel the initial attacks from GA....
Once FM is in the zone with GA he is no longer in Range. If need Force Pull them into the same zone....
What about ranged flyers. can ranged flyers do a ranged attack attack vs a non-flyer in the same zone even though this is below its minimum range?
Ranged Attack
This attack can be used on targets within its minimum
and maximum range, and within Line of Sight. A
ranged attack can always be made against a Flying
creature in the same zone, even below its minimum
range. Ranged attacks do not trigger damage barriers
or counterstrikes. Ranged attacks ignore guards, and
do not remove guard markers from guarding creatures
Im of course talking about Eagle Wings on Gorgon Archer :)
What is the latest you can reveal Eagle wings during the attack step in order to avoid the damage?
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Yes, ranged flyers can attack ground creatures they share a zone with, ignoring minimum range.
A creature cannot gain flying during an attack. You can reveal Eagle Wings at the end of any attack step, but it will not help you.
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Yes, ranged flyers can attack ground creatures they share a zone with, ignoring minimum range.
A creature cannot gain flying during an attack. You can reveal Eagle Wings at the end of any attack step, but it will not help you.
My understanding is that you can, exactly the same way you can reveal Divine Intervention to avoid an attack.
"A spell fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Resolve Spell Step:
1. The target of the spell is no longer a legal target, or
2. The caster or target of the spell moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the
move was to a location where the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies
even if the teleport was into the same zone).
Similarly, an attack fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Apply Damage and
Effects step of an attack :
1. The target of the attack is no longer a legal target, or
2. The source or target of the attack moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the
move was to a location where the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies
even if the teleport was into the same zone).
The most common way these can happen is through Divine Intervention"
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A creature cannot gain or lose the Flying trait in the middle of an attack. For example, if a creature gains Flying in the middle of an attack, the entire attack is still resolved as if the creature did not have Flying, and the Flying is gained after that attack is complete.
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RK is correct. Sadly, you cannot use Eagle Swag to dodge attacks.
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A creature cannot gain or lose the Flying trait in the middle of an attack. For example, if a creature gains Flying in the middle of an attack, the entire attack is still resolved as if the creature did not have Flying, and the Flying is gained after that attack is complete.
Ah thanks for pointing that out! There are lots of rules scattered throughout the place so can be hard to keep track of them all.
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I think you can activate wings during the declare attack stage because that is before you pay for the attack.
if you can't target the person you declared attack on then you can choose another attack/target. "I think"
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You can reveal Eagle Wings after a creature moves but before it declares it's second action, which means that you can effectively avoid the attack in some circumstances, but the creature will have an extra action to work with, so it could guard or move away or whatever.
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Nope. You have to reveal the wings BEFORE the player declares an attack for the attacker to not be able to target that creature. Technically, you can still reveal during the attack any time you'd normally be able to reveal, but the flying trait wouldn't be applied until afterwards.
It's really not a big deal, tactically speaking. You just can't screw your opponent out of an attack with Eagle Wings, which wouldn't make sense thematically anyway. Gotta start flappin them wings before you can fly.
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Yes, ranged flyers can attack ground creatures they share a zone with, ignoring minimum range.
A creature cannot gain flying during an attack. You can reveal Eagle Wings at the end of any attack step, but it will not help you.
could you link me to where i can read about this? or tell what page in the rulebook / FAQ?
Ranged flyer vs flyer: ignore min range?
Ranged flyer vs non-flyer: ignore min range?
Ranged vs flyer: ignore min range according to rules.
Ranged vs non-flyer: Must follow range
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Flying
A creature can ignore minimum range when making a ranged attack against another object in its zone if either the attacking creature or the defending creature (or both) have the Flying trait.