May 17, 2024, 12:12:21 AM

Author Topic: Guardian Angel and Defend  (Read 5090 times)

joechip90

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Guardian Angel and Defend
« on: August 06, 2014, 08:45:25 AM »
During a very close and tense game against a Priest, my opponent used his Holy avenger [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard] to do some nasty 5-dice damage to my mage.  After the attack he immediately used his Mage's quickcast action to cast [mwcard=MWSTX2FFI06]Defend[/mwcard] on the Guardian angel.  After my appreciation of such a nice play, I noticed that he had also removed two of the damage markers on the Guardian angel.  What followed was a discussion on whether the Defend spell should trigger the Guardian angel's heal.

The exact text on the card is "when Guardian Angel chooses the guard action, she may heal up to 2 points of damage from herself".  I argued that this wording implies that the heal will only trigger if the Guardian Angel uses her own action to guard and that this heal will not trigger from having the Defend spell cast upon her.  My opponent however argued that he had read that as "whenever the Guardian Angel goes on guard, heal 2 health".  Whilst this rule interpretation didn't make much of a difference on the outcome of the match, it would be great to get a clarification here.
Looking for an opponent in Bergen?  Check out my BGG profile and feel free to get in touch

Wildhorn

  • Superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine.
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1063
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • Mage Wars Quebec
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 08:56:34 AM »
You are the one who is right. The heal only trigger if the angel perform the action to guard as its text says. Defend only place a guard marker on it.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 09:52:42 AM »
You are the one who is right. The heal only trigger if the angel perform the action to guard as its text says. Defend only place a guard marker on it.
I concur that is the wording, but is it the intent?
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Kharhaz

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2109
  • Banana Stickers 7
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 01:03:10 PM »
You are the one who is right. The heal only trigger if the angel perform the action to guard as its text says. Defend only place a guard marker on it.
I concur that is the wording, but is it the intent?

I am not sure on this, as I was not involved in the design of the angel, but I would argue that Joe's interpretation is indeed the intent. The intent would be that the angel heals when it uses it's marker for guarding, not whenever it relieves a guard marker.

Just my 2 cents

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2014, 01:09:51 PM »
You are the one who is right. The heal only trigger if the angel perform the action to guard as its text says. Defend only place a guard marker on it.
I concur that is the wording, but is it the intent?

I am not sure on this, as I was not involved in the design of the angel, but I would argue that Joe's interpretation is indeed the intent. The intent would be that the angel heals when it uses it's marker for guarding, not whenever it relieves a guard marker.

Just my 2 cents
I'll put my 2 cents with yours as I agree, now the question is was the wording done with foresight of Defend coming after? I think its an Arcanus kind of question quite honestly.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

jacksmack

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1073
  • Banana Stickers 19
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2014, 01:27:36 PM »
I believe the wording on both cards is excately because they want to avoid any confusion.

Angel could have said: 'whenever this creature gets a guard marker'.

Defend could have said: 'This creature immediately takes the guard action'.


Shad0w

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2934
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 01:41:23 PM »
According to the wording on [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06] Guardian Angel[/mwcard] she heals when her action is taken to place a guard marker on her. [mwcard=MWSTX2FFI06] Defend[/mwcard] places a mark on GA but GA does not use its action to get that marker so it should not heal.  8)

BTW wild another sticker.
 
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

joechip90

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2014, 02:54:16 PM »
Thank you all for the clarification.  I figured that it would be that explanation but I thought it best to check.
Looking for an opponent in Bergen?  Check out my BGG profile and feel free to get in touch

echephron

  • Player
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 693
  • Banana Stickers 0
  • The finest in mage wear...
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2014, 05:26:59 PM »
this is going on my FIF FAQ. good catch.
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid

baronzaltor

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1765
  • Banana Stickers 19
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2014, 05:35:24 PM »
Gargoyle Sentry and Dwarf Panzy however would gain their perks from using Defend, as they only specify it as far as "while guarding".

jacksmack

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1073
  • Banana Stickers 19
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 07:22:38 AM »
Gargoyle Sentry and Dwarf Panzy however would gain their perks from using Defend, as they only specify it as far as "while guarding".

Pantzer would most likely not gain anything because his defense will most likely be spend already.

Gargoyle will benefit as you said.

Angel was far better than the others so without defend, so im not too worried about this.
Angel is a very very strong intercept creature. I have killed 0 or 1 guarding angel in all my mage wars game and lost 0.
I dont see this card too often - but when i do its almost never worth killing this rock. She would be broke if she got to heal with defend.

Erebus

  • Jr. Mage
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Guardian Angel and Defend
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2015, 02:55:50 PM »
I think another one would be Cerberus, since he gains Unmovable and Triplestrike while guarding near conjurations.
  • Favourite Mage: Straywood Beastmaster
"You see the great thing about madness is that it's all in your head."