Beastmaster's Lair

[Trotsky]

Hi everyone, I really want to get the lair working in a deck, but I just can't seem to. I am thinking it needs to be cast early, round one, or two at the latest. However, I can't get the investment of 15 mana to pay for itself.

I am seduced by the extra action but with only a channeling of 9 and the 2 from the lair it is hard to get a lot of use from it. To pay for itself I really need to capitalize on the extra action but I quickly run out of mana - even if I use my mage's main action aggressively and cast level one creatures. If I try to harmonize and/or mana flower I am finding aggressive mages on top of me before the engine begins to run.

I have tried using tanglevines and walls to slow my opponent but even still I don't seem to be any better off than if I had not cast the lair and just conjured a couple of mana flowers. I am currently at a loss on what to try next...

[cbalian]

I always summon the Lair on turn 1 or 2 as you mentioned.  I don't look for a "return on my mana investment", for me the lair’s value is that it gives you a "Free" or extra action.  Which you can use to more than pay for its mana cost because you can use your Beastmaster to ATTACK (mana free) instead of wasting your full action to summon a creature…so let the Lair summon creatures for you.  Whenever possible I use a bow or weapon (or my fists if needed) because you do a decent amount of dice damage and it doesn't cost you mana so that turn your mana fills up (or at least gets higher).

I've never lost playing as the Beastmaster and the last couple of times I played my Beastmaster never even summoned a single animal with my Mage (which makes the Lair pretty indispensible and highly valued). 

If you are looking to score some mana to "regain your mana advantage" don't underestimate using your fists or weapons as they are extremely cost effective dice dealers.  I almost never use my mage to summon a creature or in the case of the Beastmaster I also never use him to cast Enchantments.  I use enchantments a LOT but let the familiar do that too.  Put those familiars and conjurations to work, now you have two “free” action phases every round and will quickly overwhelm an unsuspecting player that doesn’t deal with them.

So basically with your Lair summoning creatures for you + your familiar beefing them (or you) up, you will have mana because you aren't wasting your full action summoning stuff, use your full action to attack (mana free).  After a short amount of turns you are swarming them and have mana to spare.  A lot of times as the Beastmaster I have 20+ mana sitting in the bank (I like to keep a reserve in case I absolutely do need to summon a big creature or cast two expensive spells in one round).  I know conventional wisdom says use up all your mana every turn, but I like to play it safe and be prepared for anything.  If I have to “save mana” for 2 turns to respond to a threat that isn’t good, I like to keep the enemy mage responding to me not the other way around, so I apply a lot of pressure all the time so they have to spend their resources to defend and never really get to mount an attack on me.  It is a tad conservative on mana but extra flexibility and being prepared is handy, so far I’ve never lost a game.  Partially luck I am sure but having a lair give you extra actions which is key to applying pressure.

[Fentum]

Hi cbalian,

I am a fan Of an aggressive Beastmaster, and In my head I can talk myself into those Lair and Fellela routes, but in practice, I think I will just get stomped early. What tactics are you opponents using that allow you the time to develop the longer term plan with a lair and a familiar? Is your local meta allowing slow build up?

[cbalian]

Excellent question and you are correct it very much depends on the opponent mage strategy.  Whether I "react" in a sense to a more aggressive mage that isn't allowing me to build up or not the Lair is still critical to offensive or defensive play.

If you want to play a more offensive (creature based) Beastmaster the lair allows you to summon 2 (even 3) creatures.  There is your "swarm" approach.

If you want to play a more offensive (melee/ranged based) Beastmaster the lair allows you to still summon creatures while your mage deals damage with a weapon or bow.  This is a more balanced approach and what I was referring to, it is both mana efficient and you are aggressive (with your attacks) AND the creature support is vital end game...which again I use as a "balance" some defend me some attack, either way it puts pressure on the opposing mage.

If you want to play a more defensive Beastmaster the lair is still good because you can summon an extra creature and hide out by your lair.  If I am playing this route (and the enemy mage isn't running AoE damage spells heavily) I do a lair/tree/fountain set up so there is lots of regen, healing, defensible support.  This approach has won but it is slower and more boring, so I go with the previous method fight with my beastmaster and summon with my lair.

So if you want to go truly aggressive you almost need a Lair.  There is a BIG difference between "rush aggro" and "aggressive".  Sure you lose out on one round of mana/summoning to get that lair out, but it is more "aggressive" to use your full action to either ATTACK OR summon ANOTHER creature.  Using your full action to summon a creature is useful "sometimes" but long term I feel that slows you down and is actually less aggressive.  Don't waste a FULL ACTION is all I'm saying, aggressive or defensive extra Actions per turn win games.  You are more in control.

The last 2 games I played, as I mentioned, I not only not waste a single full action summoning a creature, I also did not take a SINGLE point of damage to my mage.  With my lair summoning support (to attack or defend me) AND me shooting or melee attacking they really had no choice but to react and eventually get overwhelmed.  So it can still work if you are a fan of an aggressive Beastmaster IMO.

[Fentum]

These are wise words and I shall run a lair build next time out. Currently I am using a forge for the extra action. Will be interesting!

[nitrodavid]

I have done analysis on spawn points and the short story is this.

"spawnpoints trade mana efficiency for action efficiency" - Nitrodavid

the most effecent spawn point is the gate of voltari and pentagram both of those pay (mana) them selves of in 4.6 turns.

if you max efficiency (ie getting them to max channel in the cheapest way without harmonize), they rank like this

turns mana pay off/ spawn point
4.6 /gate of v
4.6 /pentagram
6.6 /temple of a
6.6 /barracks
7.5 /lair
8 /battle forge

and for action efficiency (only count base channel)
turns for action pay of/ spawn point
1/lair
1/battleforge*
2/asyra
2/barracks
2/pentagram
3/voltari

*only grants quick action pay off the rest give full action
 note at maximum channel they all give 1 turn action pay off.

so once I crunched the numbers I concluded that it is better to use spawn points as action generators as a pose to mana generators. during the early game you do not ideally have any excess mana but you do gave actions.

so enough theory and now some practical.

 put yourself in a position where you have excess mana but need actions. the best way to do this is with non spell attacks. they don't cost mana but cost actions.
most of the proposed (spawnpoint) builds I make for my self don't cast a spawn point till turn 5 or 6. by that stage I would have a weapon available to do some attacks and my spawn point to summon creatures.

now this may be against the current belief that "you drop spawn points early so they pay off mana before game ends" but just think how many times have you dropped a spawn point only to overwelmed by the opponent up in your face while you are 14-18 mana down. just try for yourself if shifting your perception as spawn points being action generators instead of mana generators.

(btw bad editing because I'm on phone)

I should also mention that is from my chapter of "spawn points" in my book so it dies not directly relate to your lair problem