Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Maverick on September 16, 2014, 07:38:25 PM
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[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Knightmare[/spellbookname]
[mage]Warlord[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNA01]2 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]1 x Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFA02]1 x Hurl Rock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA04]2 x Hurl Boulder[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a08]1 x Geyser[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWJ04]2 x Garrison Post[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ04]1 x Armory[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWJ03]1 x Barracks[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWC05]2 x Goblin Grunt[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFC12]1 x Talos[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC15]4 x Skeletal Minion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC14]3 x Skeletal Knight[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c22]3 x Knight of Westlock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC06]4 x Goblin Slinger[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1e27]1 x Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE09]1 x Standard Bearer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ05]2 x Harshforge Plate[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ04]1 x General's Signet Ring[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i02]2 x Battle Fury[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI02]1 x Conquer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]2 x Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i20]1 x Purify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI02]1 x Akiro's Battle Cry[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]2 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]1 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI03]2 x Disarm[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI06]2 x Defend[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI10]1 x Whirling Strike[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i23]1 x Rouse the Beast[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
The goal of this book is to hit very hard very fast to overwhelm the opponent. This book is fairly flexible but once you commit to an opening you have to stick with it. If possible always let your opponent start with initiative if you want to do the aggressive opening so they have initiative when you want to spring Akiro's Battlecry. That way if they plan to move their mage it may happen before you commit the mana where as if you go first and cast it they will for sure move their mage to safety. If the opponent ever decides that you should go first after winning the die roll for initiative I would use the conservative opening by default.
Skeletal Minions should always be used in preference to Goblin Grunts unless you need the extra 1 mana for something else. Unlike the Goblin Grunt they can statistically survive a single attack from most sources, the psychic/poison immunity is a small bonus.
My aggressive opening is:
Turn 1- Prepare Generals Signet Ring and any other spell.
Move to near center. Play Generals Signet Ring.
Turn 2- Prepare Knight and Rouse the Beast (Brace for impact against Forcemaster/Necromancer).
Summon a Knight depending on opponent type (Skeletal knight against Forcemaster or Necromancer, Knight of Westlock against most other books). If you played the Knight of Westlock AND the opponent moved anything into your zone quickcast Rouse the Beast and attack. Otherwise do not quickcast and conserve the mana.
Turn 3- Prepare another Knight and Rouse the Beast OR if opponent has a conjuration (ie. spawnpoint) that is vulnerable to a Conquer you wish to be rid of prepare Conquer and Force Push.
Have your original knight guard right away. If opponent entered your zone attack instead. Summon a Knight reserving Rouse the Beast for if your opponent has minions in your zone to attack.
If you are going for the Conquer strategy and have the requisite mana you could instead have your original knight move to the conjuration in question. Use the force push to get enemy creatures out of the space or to give an extra zone of movement if needed. Cast Conquer.
Turn 4- If opponent creatures are not in your zone prepare another knight and Rouse the Beast. If opponent creatures are already in your zone your prepare Battle Fury and Hurl Rock. If you cast Conquer previously prepare Skeletal Minion and Brace Yourself.
If you prepared the Knight this turn cast it now and reserve Rouse the Beast for if the opponent enters your zone.
If opponent was already in your zone this turn use Battle Fury and Hurl Rock to deal as much damage as possible. Attack with Knights. The damage race has begun so use mana for support or attack spells with the goal of killing the enemy mage from this point forward.
If Conquer was cast last turn summon a Skeletal Minion. Reserve Brace yourself for if you need to go on the defensive otherwise do not cast it to conserve mana for next turn. Have original Knight Guard for you. At this point your future turns will be dependent on what you opponent does. I would summon a knight turn 5 if able preferably with Rouse the beast. Attack enemy mage as soon as you can as aggressively as you can from this point forward.
Turn 5- Prepare Akiro's Battle Cry and Battle Standard. If opponent is in your zone instead prepare Battle Fury and Hurl Rock.
If opponent is not in your zone cast "To Battle!" Warlord order as your first full action. Assuming the enemy mage stays in range of Fast creatures and does not move into your zone quick cast Akiro's Battle Cry right before a knight acts and charge with your knights. If opponent moved into your zone this turn cast and reveal Battle Standard instead. If the knights successfully charge this turn they each get Charge +3 on their attacks for 24 dice of damage.
Turn 6- Prepare Battle Fury and Hurl Rock. If armor is a concern prepare Disarm or Acid Ball in place of a Battle Fury.
Attack with everything using Battle Fury and Hurl Rock for 10 additional dice of damage this turn. Assuming you have 3 knights out and successfully used Akiro's battle cry last turn you have dealt a total of 49 dice of damage on turn 5 and 6 alone. If your opponent did not build up his defenses sufficiently it may be enough for a decisive victory.
My conservative opening
Turn 1- Prepare Barracks and Garrison Post.
Move towards non starting corner on starting side and cast Barracks in non starting corner on starting side. Quick cast Garrison Post near center.
Turn 2- Prepare Armory and Brace Yourself.
Quickcast Armory into starting corner. Move to Garrison post and take a Guard action.
Turn 3- Prepare Generals Signet Ring and a Knight if opponent has demonstrated aggression OR Goblin Slinger x2 if they are keeping their distance.
If opponent is demonstrating aggression and moving towards you the Knight is the choice you should have went with. Deploy the Knight at the Garrison Post and quickcast the ring. Take a defense action with your mage.
If opponent has not demonstrated aggression by moving towards you instead choose the 2 Goblin Slingers. Deploy a Goblin Slinger onto the Garrison Post. Summon an additional Goblin Slinger on the Garrison post.
Turn 4- Prepare a Knight and Defend if opponent has demonstrated aggression. If not Prepare Goblin Slinger x2
Just as turn 3 you will deploy the knight. Use your other knight and mage to Guard. Defend will not be used unless you feel very threatened and choose to abort your deployment step.
If opponent is still not aggressive deploy a Goblin Slinger. Use previous 2 Goblin Slingers to target enemy creatures if able. Target Enemy conjurations if not. Summon the other Goblin Slinger with your mage. Remember the Armory gives them all piercing 1.
Turn 5 Onward- Keep deploying Knights if desired. If not Deploy Grunts/ Skeletal Minions and use remaining mana for other spells. If you have 4 Goblin Slingers up remember to use your Warlord command spell to give them all +1 ranged attack dice every turn. 16 dice with piercing 1 and a range of 2 every turn is nothing to joke about. Remember to cast your Generals Signet Ring first opportunity if you have not already done so. If your opponent mage ever stops 1 space away from your zone of creatures make sure you prepare and quickcast force push at the first opportunity to move him a zone away. All full zone attack spells I know of are range 1 and a full action to cast. Do not be afraid to mix it up with Hurl Boulder or Force Hammer in addition to your Goblin Slingers.
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Why the Skeletal Knights? Don't get me wrong they're cool soldiers but they seem like the odd men out when a couple more Knights of Westlock could do the job as well and still benefit from your Group Heal. Dwarven Panzerguardes also look like knights and would give you a real defensive edge.
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Your defensive options are rather sparse. You basically have 2 Brace Yourself and guards. I would run at least one Harshforge Plate, and seriously consider what other defensive measures should be in the book.
Meditation Amulet seems a bit out of place. You could play it after the Barracks to increase your mana output, but it's not very action efficient without a Battle Forge to cast it, and you definitely don't want to use it if you're manually casting creatures every round. Opening
Turn 1 (19): Barracks -> Garrison Post (3)
Turn 2 (12) [2]: Deploy Goblin Grunt -> General's Signet Ring -> Garrison Post (3)
Turn 3 (12) [3]:
Leaves you one mana short of being able to cast Meditation Amulet and deploy a 13 mana creature round 3, which is really when you would want to fit it in. If you gave up on deploying the Goblin Grunt you could fit it in.
With all of your low armor creatures, Standard Bearer might work well.
I wouldn't run Group Heal if you want to run Skeletal Knights.
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Why the Skeletal Knights?
They have Psychic Immunity, that's why he is planning on playing them against the Forcemaster. A good idea, I think - okay, you invest more spellbook points, but at the same time you save points (and actions) for putting Nullify on them or Dispel spells such as Mind Control.
I agree with sdougla2 that I might be good to include some more defenses and drop the Mediation Amulet.
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You are very vulnerable to Flying creatures.
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A few points to address.
Skeletal Knights are my answer to psychic spells or idol of pestelence/ poison abilities. I start the match with them against opponents likely to use them so I have a tempo advantage and will not have to waste actions supporting my creatures.
Meditation amulet is for if they target my garrison posts I am able to keep the requisite mana economy for big soldiers every turn. It takes a turn of setting up where I will have to deploy a goblin grunt instead of a beefy soldier creature but will allow me to spam them out in future rounds assuming the barracks is still standing. It also gives me a bit of padding against a mana denial book. Worth the 2 points to include for that alone.
Against fliers I have included one Maim wings for decks with really powerful fliers that become a problem. I also have 4 attack spells that do massive damage and can cause slam with decent probability. I can utilize guards against bigger fliers and against smaller ones I included 4 Goblin slingers that I can pump out in two turns if I need to focus down a flier swarm deck.
That being said if I start targeting the opponents creatures if they are fliers or not I am playing this book wrong. The principle behind this book is the same principle as the “zerg rush” for those familiar with the term. I use the 13 mana soldiers for their high damage output and good survivability combined with a mana cost that allows me to play them every turn. By rushing the opponent I am initiating a damage race that I will likely have a good lead on. With 5 dice attacks I need to statistically attack 6-8 times with my creatures in total to win the match.
My remaining spells are a tool box designed to tear down enemy defenses/ attack the opponent mage/ or bring my own creatures back into the fight. I use temporary defenses such as brace yourself because my hitpoints by itself should be sufficient with the lead in damage I would have against the majority of spellbooks. I am considering adding leather gloves and leather boots to this build for a bit of cheap armor padding but I want to play test it a bit further to see if that would be needed. I really need to play-test this more either way.
Edit Changes- Looking at some of the good advice in this thread I have decided to swap out Group Heal for Standard bearer. I also will get rid of Falcons Precision and I will put in a pair of leather boots and leather gloves. With my two remaining points I will swap out the bridge trolls for an additional Knight of Westlock and Skeletal Knight. I like the bridge trolls but they are a bit too action intensive to give the requisite armor to ensure their survivability.
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My recommendation is two cheap chest pieces that way you can swap out from Corrodes. Or if you stick with leather just carry two of the same so you can swap out from Corrodes.
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I like that advice so I will incorporate Harshforged Plate into the book. Two copies of that should be effective against dissolve and corrode. I am not sure if I would want to cast it in every match but when I do need it I will be glad I have it. I am editing my original post with an updated list. I also tossed out Force Wave for another force push. I dropped the Tanglevine and the Leather gloves/boots to make room for the armor.
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I did one final edit with a few card swap outs and a more detailed turn by turn action summary. Of note I put Skeletal Minions into the book because I like their survivability. I also added Akiro's Battle Cry because in the rare instance I get to use it I think it could win the game for me. I reworked my aggressive and defensive strategies to reflect the changes.
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Do you have Talos in there just because he's free? Even though you can't cast him?
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Do you have Talos in there just because he's free? Even though you can't cast him?
That's funny.
I'm still not certain I am sold on the Skeletal knights. the 3 skeletal knights are 18 spell points. that's a whole butt load of [mwcard=FWC05]Goblin Grunt[/mwcard], [mwcard=MW1C37]Thunderift Falcon[/mwcard], [mwcard=FWC04]Goblin Builder[/mwcard] and [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC06]Goblin Alchemist[/mwcard].
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Having played a skeleton focused Warlord book, I can say that the synergies are undeniable. I may not run 3 copies, but they are fantastic.
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Having played a skeleton focused Warlord book, I can say that the synergies are undeniable. I may not run 3 copies, but they are fantastic.
I have that book built I haven't played it yet. My FiF update is slightly different that what you posted.
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I like this book a lot, with his high HP the warlord is well suited to a damage race.
I think you'd want a couple rust in here. You can put it on the opponent preemptively so they never get the benefit of their armor vs even one attack and then you can dispel or dissolve their source of armor to put them back in the hole.
For the slinger side of the book I'd like to squeeze a caltrops and a teleport trap in.
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I just noticed that you have Talos, but no Altar of Domination. ; ) --Which probably means this spellbook is probably in effect 122 points, btw...
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Since you run only 4 enchantments I would include a [mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ01]Harshforge Monolith[/mwcard]
For a measly 2 SP that one can hit home very hard against enchantment heavy builds and quickly tip the scales for you.
Very few people on this site seem to realize the power of that card as evidenced by the lack of discussion about it ( no real in depth discussion I could find anyway ) and the absence of it in most decks.
I posted a deck built to use it ( Meditation Lair ) and so far not a single response or remark about it, meaning everybody knows and uses this card already or ... they don't ... and haven't come around to understanding the big impact of this card yet.
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Sorry for the late replies I have been away from the forums for a bit.
Talos was included as an Easter egg to see if people were paying attention. Yes he cannot be summoned but as he was free I thought it would be funny to throw him in anyways. I also have the ability to tell my opponents between games that "I run Talos in this book so watch out!". I am a sick person I know. ;D
On the issue of Rust vs. Acid Ball. Acid Ball was included with the idea that by the time you would actually cast it the damage race has already begun. Any mana expenditure or action on your part had better be doing damage of some sort unless you have a very good reason to the contrary. In theory and according to the math it works perfectly. However in practice I am noticing I only ever roll 1 corrode with acid ball and all the damage is absorbed by the remaining armor of my opponent. I am considering replacing one of the Acid Balls with a Rust purely because my dice rolls are so terrible. However for people who were not cursed by the dice gods during a lunar eclipse while the planets were aligned I would recommend sticking to the Acid Balls as statistically they are the superior choice.
The Skeletal Knights have won me a few games now and I can vouch for how awesome they are. They do need a bit more support then the Knight of Westlock in the armor department but otherwise have a lot of staying power and damage potential. The Standard bearer and the Armory usually solve the armor issue. Don't forget your Veteran tokens because the Skeletal Knights benefit immensely from the extra armor they provide.
During a game this weekend Harshforged Monolith was recommended to me by another player as well. I know it is a great card but this deck is starved for book points and I am not sure what I would drop to put it in. It is a consideration I am giving a lot of thought though. Honestly there are a ton of cards I would like to include but the core book concept of out of school creatures forces me to run a pretty lean set of cards. Still, I can vouch it is worth it from my results.
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I just noticed that you have Talos, but no Altar of Domination. ; ) --Which probably means this spellbook is probably in effect 122 points, btw...
Talos is free to include in your spellbook. The lack of Altar of Domination was an intentional design decision.
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Acid Ball does damage before the Corrode is applied, and has a 1/3 chance of only applying 1 Corrode. Overall, due to enchantments being more fragile than conditions except against the Priestess, I would probably give the edge to Acid Ball in a vacuum, but I value Rust more highly for Warlocks. In addition, Rust can't be dodged with defenses. Corrode is the big reason I've started to value Defenses more than I did before, as it makes casting Acid Ball on my creatures (in particular my mage) more uncertain. So I wouldn't say it's as cut and dried as Acid Ball is statistically better than Rust. There are more factors at play.
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Acid Ball does damage before the Corrode is applied, and has a 1/3 chance of only applying 1 Corrode. Overall, due to enchantments being more fragile than conditions except against the Priestess, I would probably give the edge to Acid Ball in a vacuum, but I value Rust more highly for Warlocks. In addition, Rust can't be dodged with defenses. Corrode is the big reason I've started to value Defenses more than I did before, as it makes casting Acid Ball on my creatures (in particular my mage) more uncertain. So I wouldn't say it's as cut and dried as Acid Ball is statistically better than Rust. There are more factors at play.
In the context of this books design Acid Ball is statistically better. An action that does potential damage is better than an action that does no potential damage when the goal is to kill the opponent in the shortest possible time frame. In an attrition scenario it would be more of a debate with many points going towards Rust but we are talking a burst damage scenario. I will break down the merits and flaws of both cards for new players reading this.
ACID BALL: An Attack spell that statistically does 2 acid damage and 2 corrodes. 1 of the damage is statistically a critical hit that bypasses armor.
STRENGTHS: Causes minor damage while removing armor. Against 1 or less armored opponents damage is potentially 1 or 2 points higher. Removing Corrodes can be action and mana intensive.
WEAKNESSES: Subject to defense rolls. Results vary based on dice rolls. Corrodes are removable by replacing the armor source (if you have a duplicate), a Priestesses ability, and a select few rarely included cards. Vulnerable to Block.
RUST: A Curse Enchantment that gives a creature -2 armor.
STRENGTHS: Reliable application with an effect that is not based on dice rolls. Not subject to removal using methods that remove Corrodes. Synergy in curse or enchantment focused books.
WEAKNESSES: Removed by vast array of cards a few of which are auto includes in most spellbooks. Vulnerable to Harshforged Monolith or effects that swap enchantments between creatures. Completely ineffective on unarmored creatures. Vulnerable to Nullify.
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You missed a big plus of rust. You can cast it preemptively and flip it when needed. If you need to use an acid ball your opponent probably benefited from his armor against at least one attack which means lost damage.
Not saying you need rust, just saying it's the biggest pro on rusty in my book.
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You missed a big plus of rust. You can cast it preemptively and flip it when needed. If you need to use an acid ball your opponent probably benefited from his armor against at least one attack which means lost damage.
Not saying you need rust, just saying it's the biggest pro on rusty in my book.
Something to keep in mind is that is also a disadvantage of Rust for 3 reasons.
1.If the opponent never casts an armor source the action and mana are wasted.
2. The facedown enchantment is vulnerable to dispelling before it ever gets flipped meaning you may not get use out of it in a game.
3. The Acid Ball still statistically does at least 1 critical damage on cast meaning it is forward pressure AND armor degradation where Rust is only armor degradation.
In a drawn out battle with extra unneeded actions or if you have good deck synergy Rust can have more going for it. In a damage race however Acid Ball wins out (Statistically) hands down. It also still functions as a cheap attack spell doing 1-6 damage (Statistically 4) if the opponent has no armor to speak of. Every damage counts.
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The expectation damage for Acid Ball against an unarmed Target is 11/3 if I'm doing my math right.
E[Damage] = E[X] + E[Y]
Where X is the damage from attack dice and Y is the damage from the effect die.
E[X] = 2*(1/3)*[0 + 1 + 2] = 2
E[Y] = (1/3)*1 + (2/3)*2 = 5/3
=> E[Damage] = 11/3
Doing slightly less than 4 damage on average for 5 mana against an unarmed target is pretty bad. You're much better off playing Hurl Rock or Flameblast as an attack spell. If you consider other options, Bear Strength is superior if you'll get off at least 2 attacks.
The question of Acid Ball vs Rust depends largely (assuming you don't have a particular reason to value one over the other such as Curse Weaving or Smoldering Curses) on how many attacks you're likely to get in with the armor reduction. Sure, the 2 die attack may help, but against 2 armor, that's only an average of 1.11 damage.
Let's say that you're making 5 dice attacks, since you're focused on creatures that make 5 dice attacks. The relevant question then is how many 5 dice attacks do you need to make for the expectation damage with Rust to be better than the expectation damage with Acid Ball. To simplify the calculation, let's assume the target is at 2 armor before the armor reducing effect is applied.
E[A] will be the expected damage from a single 5 dice attack.
Rust: E[Ar] = 5
Acid Ball: E[Aa] = (4.13)(1/3) + (5)(2/3) = 4.71
If we set nE[Aa] + 1.11 = nE[Ar], and solve for n, we get the number of attacks for which the expected damage output from the two investments is the same.
This gives n = 3.84
That means that you're statistically better off playing Rust if you will make 4 5 dice attacks before the effect is eliminated against a target that had 2 armor before having their armor reduced. Now, again, Rust is easier to remove for most mages, but I still think you're pushing Acid Ball over Rust more than is justified on a statistical basis. You're going to need to make more than 4 attacks at that strength to win.
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Unless your fighting Zombies and that critical damage just rocks, at least from the Corrode side of things....
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If you're playing aggro, you don't want to kill zombies, you want to kill the enemy mage.
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If you're playing aggro, you don't want to kill zombies, you want to kill the enemy mage.
Beside the point........Acid Ball works well on zombies.....
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Though there are comparably priced attack spells that do better damage ie. Hurl Rock. All books do not always run them. In this book I personally only run 1 Hurl Rock. Most competitive books do however run either Rust or Acid Ball. The difference is that Acid Ball still serves a purpose against an unarmored opponent where Rust has no utility outside it's primary use other than maybe baiting a nullify. If you have no other attack spells and need a quick spell that does damage Acid Ball starts looking really appetizing. Sometimes I use them specifically to flush out a defense roll or a suspected face down block.
Against an unarmored opponent Acid Ball does not fall very far behind Hurl Rock on average damage.
Acid Ball: 1-6 damage. Average of 4
Hurl Rock: 0-10 damage. Average of 5. Chance to daze.
Unless you are running Sectarus Rune Sword (spelling?), Fellella pixie companion, the male Warlock, or some other enchantment synergy combination it is not optimal to use Rust over of Acid Ball. Acid Ball has the same game impact 66.6% of the time but is also harder to counter, and deals damage.
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If you're playing aggro, you don't want to kill zombies, you want to kill the enemy mage.
This is true. My last game was against a Necromancer and I intentionally summoned a Knight of Westlock and let it get damaged so the blood thirsty zombies had to chew on it. While they wasted their attacks against his at that point 6 armor the rest of my minions went around the swarm and focused down the enemy mage.