Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Creative => Custom Cards => Topic started by: Halewijn on January 16, 2017, 11:55:56 AM
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I would love my beastmasters to go beast mode! literally... 8)
I think shapeshifting is probably a nicer addition to the beastmasters rather than the main weapon of a new mage. I also think that we currently have enough nature mages. So here are the idea's:
(http://puu.sh/tqPoV/49082d5f47.jpg)(http://puu.sh/tqPpF/7fa2bf84e0.jpg)
I don't know if gaining these subtypes break any eggs. (I don't think so currently)
The amazing power of these cards is compansated by the upkeep +2. (I think)
Any thoughts?
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I love the idea Halewijn! It's a bit like demon mask for warlock but much more effective.
I guess werewolf transmutation and animal kinship would be a weird interaction. You would gain the melee +1 bonus for yourself. Anything else seems fine the first moment. Redclaw makes you strong :)
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I took animal kinship, tooth and claw, rajahs fury, wounded prey, redclaw, etc... Into considerations. Its very good, but upkeep 2 is also expensive. I think its more or less balanced.
Although, maybe the reveal cost should be 2 for both cards...
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I guess pricing is ok, but to get a bonus for yourself seemed funny :)
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For Werecat, instead of Charge +2, how about Piercing +2? Piercing is more of a cat trait than Charge - aside from the Feral Bobcat and Pharaoh's Cheetah. Save the Charge +2 bonus for Weregoat! ;D (along with +2 vs. corporeal conjurations?)
Or swap Elusiveness for Piercing +2, and that way Animal Kinship will give you Elusive similar to how it gives Melee +1 to the Werewolf. (Although multiple Kinships stack to give the Werewolf Melee +X, whereas Elusiveness will be either on or off, regardless of the number of Kinships you put in play)
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For Werewolf, maybe keep the Melee +2 but drop the Armor +2 from Werewolf and instead give him "your quick attacks gain d12: 8+ = Bleed."
Then give Werelizard Armor +2 and "your quick attacks gain d12: 8+ = Rot."
Of course, Wererodent needs a defense (maybe infinite use, d12: 9+, which can still benefit from [mwcard=FWQ02]Defense Ring[/mwcard]), Elusiveness and Pest.
Werebird: "When you are activated, you may pay 2 mana to gain the Flying and Fast traits until the end of your activation phase."
Wereunicorn: Charge +2, and friendly living creatures in your zone gain the Regenerate 1 trait.
Werelephant: Gain innate life +8 and a Trample attack (4 dice?).
Werebear: Gain Tough -2, Armor +1 and a full action 4-dice attack with Doublestrike.
Wereape: Gain Rage +3 and Climbing. (or something else so you still get a gift from Kinship)
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Wereunicorn
But thats impossibru!
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For Werecat, instead of Charge +2, how about Piercing +2? Piercing is more of a cat trait than Charge - aside from the Feral Bobcat and Pharaoh's Cheetah. Save the Charge +2 bonus for Weregoat! ;D (along with +2 vs. corporeal conjurations?)
Or swap Elusiveness for Piercing +2, and that way Animal Kinship will give you Elusive similar to how it gives Melee +1 to the Werewolf. (Although multiple Kinships stack to give the Werewolf Melee +X, whereas Elusiveness will be either on or off, regardless of the number of Kinships you put in play)
Precedent on inherent animal traits are confusing. Lion savagery grants charge and piercing, cheetah speed grants fast, elusive is laregly represented by the cats, mongoose agility grants elusive, there are a couple charging cats, cats typically have a dodge, Makunda grants piercing, but so does wolf's fury.
I honestly say pick a trait with some justification and run with it.
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.... want....... more........but ... too awesome..... dying..... XD
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Awesome card arts! These are altogether awesome ideas/cards/abilities! Would love a shifter focused Mage.
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For Werecat, instead of Charge +2, how about Piercing +2? Piercing is more of a cat trait than Charge - aside from the Feral Bobcat and Pharaoh's Cheetah. Save the Charge +2 bonus for Weregoat! ;D (along with +2 vs. corporeal conjurations?)
Or swap Elusiveness for Piercing +2, and that way Animal Kinship will give you Elusive similar to how it gives Melee +1 to the Werewolf. (Although multiple Kinships stack to give the Werewolf Melee +X, whereas Elusiveness will be either on or off, regardless of the number of Kinships you put in play)
Just as Jason mentioned, the cat abilities are very broad. Defences are not aggressive enough and cost way to much to balance this card. The Johktari has innate fast so that was not a good option either and elusive combo's very nice with innate fast of Johktari and charge +X. That's why I picked these, although piercing was very high in the running. I also don't want to change this card for Animal kinship combo's since it's not a popular card anyway. I don't think there is a possibility/need for more than these 2 transfusions since they could probably only be released in an other mages set or Mordok's Tome V2 or something like that. The werelizard could be nice though. :)
Currently I think the wolf is a little stronger than the cat so these are my idea's for tweaking:
Option A:
Wolf: melee +1 & armor +1. Whenever there is at least 1 other canine creature in your zone, you gain an additional melee +1 and armor +1. (wolf pack theme)
Cat: remains the same
Option B, raising reveal cost to 2:
Wolf: melee +1 & armor +1. Whenever there is at least 1 other canine creature in your zone, you gain an additional melee +1, armor +1 and his melee attacks gain d12: 10+ bleed. (wolf pack theme + bleed from iNano)
Cat: remains the same + Non-spell attacks gain piercing +1.
Which of these 2 do you think are best? Do you think they are balanced or should even version A get a higher reveal cost?
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I think the revel costs should be higher 4-5 Mana, there are level 3 enchantments.
The enchantments should also be Nature Mage only, Druids should also be in the position to change the shape.
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I think the revel costs should be higher 4-5 Mana, there are level 3 enchantments.
The enchantments should also be Nature Mage only, Druids should also be in the position to change the shape.
The inspiration for these cards is [mwcard=DNE01]Barkskin[/mwcard], and this card is druid only and not nature mage only so I think the transmutations should be beastmaster mage only as well. I see where you are coming from though. I also like keeping 'changing into beasts" something for the masters of beasts only. ;)
For some reason I thought that barkskin had upkeep +1 so I agree that the reveal cost is too low. I'll change it to 3 or 4. I'm pretty sure though that 5 would be too expensive.
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When I think about it
Get into a werewolf... causing pain and takes time, I think you should get a stun condition as soon as the enchantment is revealed.
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... I also don't want to change this card for Animal kinship combo's since it's not a popular card anyway. ...
Personally, I'd be more wary of card combos. First, [mwcard=MW1J02]Animal Kinship[/mwcard] IS popular in my meta. I.e., it's not uncommon to see 2-4x Animal Kinship played along with a Darkfenne Asp and a level 1 canine that avoid combat, or are quickly replaced (esp with Straywood's quick-summoning), just for the Kinship bonuses. That's melee +X and armor +X that can't be easily Dissolved/Dispeled, and if the Mage acquire's corrode markers, the Asp goes aggro and tries to get killed in order to drop the corrosion. In fact, you can kill it yourself if you need to! (Remember, defenses are optional). It's a pretty effective strategy, albeit expensive and slower than most Beastmaster openings.
And if these Were- enchantments existed, I think you'd quickly see Kinship get played for the built-in self-combo, similar to the way Demonhide Mask lets a Warlord take advantage of several combos that otherwise might not be "popular." Sure, there are cheaper ways to get Melee +X on your Werewolf, but for example Bear Strength is a lot easier to get rid of than Animal Kinship.
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Yes, but I meant that, while I think the kinship is not an issue for the canine, I wouldn't want to change the cat in favor of a nice kinship combo like you proposed. ;)
When I think about it
Get into a werewolf... causing pain and takes time, I think you should get a stun condition as soon as the enchantment is revealed.
That's actually a pretty cool idea! But you would lose the element of suprise and you would have to pay upkeep for one round for nothing. :( I think it would make the cards way too weak. It can be fairly fast depending on the lore.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/eb/42/04/eb4204dc4ba4c71a1ab3a5efff2af989.jpg)
(I have updated the cards.)
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ב"ה
Seems interesting, but quite strong. The 2 MAGE ONLY upkeep+2 enchantments currently in the game are barkskin and forcefield. Barkskin has a reveal cost of 2, is a level 2 spell and a cantrip. Forcefield has a reveal cost of 10, is a level 4 spell and isn't a cantrip. I think these spells are closer in power to a forcefield than to a barkskin, so I would raise reveal cost to 5 (which is still closer to barkskin) and remove the cantrip keyword.
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I think forcefield is on another level and not really comparable. I'll write down my reasoning here, comparing the cards with barkskin. Since BM-only, upkeep +2 and cantrip are all the same, I'll completely exclude them and assume that barkskin is balanced.
[mwcard=DNE01]Barkskin[/mwcard] is essentially a [mwcard=MW1E36]Rhino Hide[/mwcard] (5 mana) and a [mwcard=MW1E32]Regrowth[/mwcard] (6 mana) combined in one card. Since you save a quick cast I'll rate the cost 1 mana higher.
Barkskin costs: 5 + 6 + 1 = 12 and this equals 4 + 2 upkeep (apparantly)
Transmutations
The cat combines a [mwcard=MW1E28]Mongoose Agility[/mwcard] (5 mana) with a weakened version of [mwcard=MWSTX2FFE06]Lion Savagery[/mwcard] (5-1 = 4 mana) + 1 mana for the quick cast. I rate the subtype gaining at 3 mana since it "only" gives the ability to gain buffs but not buffs itself + 1 mana for the quick cast.
The wolf combines a weakened version of [mwcard=MW1E01]Bear Strength[/mwcard] (5-1 = 4 mana) and a weakened version of [mwcard=MW1E36]Rhino Hide[/mwcard] (5-1 = 4 mana) + 1 mana for the quick cast. . I rate the subtype gaining at 4 mana because I think that canine subtype is a little better than cat + 1 mana for the quick cast.
Total cat: 5+4+1+3+1 = 14 = 12 + 2 = Barkskin + 2
Total wolf: 4+4+1+4+1 = 14 = 12 + 2 = Barkskin +2
I agree that a reveal cost of 3 is still too low and I will change it. :P But I would rate it at 4 now and not 5 + keeping the cantrip. Do you agree or do you think I undercost something or make a wrong reasoning?
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Costing for this can be kind of tricky. The most similar enchantment in the game to the werecat transmutation is Ballad of Courage at 2 down 5 reveal. It grants Charge +2, Fast, and can not be hindered. Problem is, it is not a cantrip.
Charge +2 on each is equal
May not be hindered vs elusive is kind of a wash. Elusive ignores guards, may not be hindered ignores terrain/vines
Fast seems to me to be better than being an animal/cat, but that may just be an opinion.
It comes down to cantrip being the deciding factor. It might be strong enough to outweigh the fast trait on its own. As it stands, if you want to use ballad of courage for up to 2 turns (what everyone besides the siren is getting, really) then it costs 7 mana. If you want to use the cat transmutation for 2 turns, it costs 7 mana.
Even if you are the siren, keeping the song up for additional turns would cost mana just the same as the transmutation. I say it is near appropriate cost if not necessarily at cost.
No special insights on the werewolf transmutation yet.
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We have one Werewolf atm "Goran, Werewolf Pet" he is Lycanthrope, Canine, not an Animal...
Werewolf Transmutation level 4
Cost 2 / 3(4) Transmutation
Upkeep +2, Cantryp, Beastmaster only,
This Mage gets the Lycanthrope and Canine suptype...
About the strengths he gets you can make thought.
I am still the opinion... you should get a stun condition as soon as the enchantment is revealed.
But you're right it would be restricted, so I thought about what it would compensate....
Interweave = To dispel this enchantment it must be paid X more Mana, X is the level of the enchantment.
Interweave not sure if its the right name for the new keyword,
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Thank you for this nice comparison, Jason. It gives more insight. :D I don't think cantrip should be translated to a higher manacost because then you get a weak card. I don't think barkskin or Galvitar have a higher mana cost due to cantrip. If anything, it makes the level of the card higher. That's actually the way I think they do it.
I'm convinced that a reveal cost of 5+ would be too high. I'm still not entirely sure if 3 mana or 4 mana is best because I might have overpriced the subtypes in my previous reasoning... The thing is that almost every boost the mage would benefit from is a card that already takes multiple creatures into account so 3/4 mana for gaining the subtypes might be too much.
We have one Werewolf atm "Goran, Werewolf Pet" he is Lycanthrope, Canine, not an Animal...
Without the animal subtype it kind of ruins the idea. :( Good catch though! I'll rename it to "Wolf/Cat Transmutation" than instead of werewolf transmutation.
None of the body-modifying magic (bear strength, rhino hide, ...) stuns your mage and I really think it would overcomplicate an already loaded card and make it too weak.
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Bear stranger and rino hide make you stronger / your skin harder but transmutation transforms you into something new.
I understand you and like your idea, you probably right to change it in wolf and cat transmutation.