Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: JasonBourneZombie on May 25, 2015, 09:59:08 AM
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[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Simple swarm Necromancer[/spellbookname]
[mage]Necromancer[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j19]1 x Deathlock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ04]1 x Graveyard[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j11]1 x Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j20]1 x Sacrificial Altar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]2 x Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j12]2 x Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ13]1 x Ziggurat of Undeath[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNC23]6 x Zombie Crawler[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC19]4 x Venomous Zombie[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC22]2 x Zombie Brute[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC08]2 x Unstable Zombie[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC09]2 x Plague Zombie[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC11]2 x Ravenous Ghoul[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c01]1 x Adramelech, Lord of Fire[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1e19]1 x Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e09]1 x Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE03]2 x Arcane Corruption[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e14]1 x Enfeeble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e24]1 x Magebane[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e25]1 x Maim Wings[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e27]1 x Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e31]1 x Poisoned Blood[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e20]2 x Harmonize[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]2 x Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e05]1 x Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]1 x Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e36]1 x Rhino Hide[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNQ01]1 x Cloak of Shadows[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ02]1 x Death Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q05]1 x Demonhide Armor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ05]1 x Libro Mortuos[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q18]1 x Mage Staff[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q19]1 x Mage Wand[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI01]1 x Drain Soul[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i08]1 x Drain Life[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI06]3 x Zombie Frenzy[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]1 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]1 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI01]1 x Animate Dead[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
This is my most used spellbook and favorite Mage. It's a very simple spellbook that relies on brute force creatures and finesse on the mage's part. Obviously, this isn't a spellbook where your Mage is supposed to get close to the action, but you can still be of use if the action comes to you.
Only cards really worth pointing out are the adremalech and nature enchantments. Those are part of an early game rush against warlords and Druids.
Typical opening plays are:
First turn, double mana crystal.
Second turn, harmonized graveyard.
Third turn, harmonized libro mortuos and zombie crawler from the graveyard.
Fourth turn, death ring and whatever else I want.
Against Druids, necromancers, warlords, or forcemasters, lead with larger creatures or skip enchanting the spawn points.
[Edit]:remembered a few changes I made recently.
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I play against this book a lot. It's well unliving proof that the "You must have blah blah blah cards to be effective" argument is bunk. It's done very well locally indeed.
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I always wondered if a double spawnpoint system worked.
Do you actually deploy a creature from both spawnpoints every turn? If not, is it worth playing both spawnpoints?
Also, how often do you get to play four full turns of mana saving? It seems to me that very few mages will allow you to do so. An intermediate to advanced player would get to you and start heavy damage well before you are ready to get out any creature.
I would love to be proved wrong though... I've only ever theorized on such a book.
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Not always every turn, though it does depend on what you are deploying. Deploying two crawlers a turn with the ring on is easy, only two mana out of pocket total. Medium size zombies are harder to deploy at 12 mana for both after reduction. If you pair a crawler with a larger zombie every turn, it's very easy to continuously deploy two each turn at about 9 mana out of pocket. Throw in the graveyard's special ability, and you get further reductions. It's kind of fun to see a Mage fend off adremalech only for me to turn around and say, "And that puts 6 mana on my graveyard."
I very frequently get four full turns of mana saving. It is usually an earth wizard or warlord that forces me to delay a second spawn point. Against a zombie necromancer, most have to weigh the likelihood that I won't just cast a frenzy and send everything at them, or start casting drain spells.
It's worth noting that you can play the death ring, deploy two crawlers, and hard cast a third on turn 4 for a total of 4 zombies on the field. It's not entirely 4 full turns of mana saving.
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I'm drafting a necromancer book and I feel like x2 Crystal, Libro, and Graveyard is a huge hit to one's mana pool. You've played this book a lot I think, so I'm curious as to how often you can really get this full build up. Do you adjust which spawnpoints and how many crystals you use based on how long you think you can survive into the late game?
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Yes, I do. If I know that the player or their mage's build has a tendency to rush hard, I scale back on early development to deploy an offense of my own or a strong deterrent. The book runs well against the forcemaster sometimes, since you can deploy on the run when you have to. When all else fails and the enemy starts chasing you, cheetah speed and mongoose agility will let you run around the field dropping zombies as you go.
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As someone who has played against this build with a Priest built to dish out holy damage, i ultimately lost because of how many creatures he was able to get out and how quickly they came out. Double spawnpoint was not fun to play against.
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Now, looking through other posts, I seem to be in the minority for play style. How and how well do other necromancer books do without a second spawn point?
My necromancer build has the benefit of outswarming most everyone I play against which, when you cast a Frenzy, comes quite in handy. How do other necromancer books settle a game?
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The problem I see when playing two (creature) spawn points:
- slow setup (takes lots of actions)
- expensive setup (lots of mana)
- expensive if you want to use it every round
- if you use all spawn points every round, your mage has limited mana to act flexible
Now, that holds for every mage. The Necro is special, since he has two creature spawn points. A zombie Necro is even more special, because he has no reliable guards and interceptors(since bloodthirsty and/or pest) plus the Necro has no inherent defense (well he is immune to poison) which makes him weak to direct attacks. So you have to spend actions to brace yourself (hehe). In my opinion you simply can not achieve that properly with a two spawn point setup since you don't have the mana. What i can see working is a forge/creature spawn point and a meditation amulet.
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The thing is, you don't absolutely have to cast two, or even one a turn if tactics call for it. The mana return you get from the spawn points is still there. If you can't shape the game to keep yourself protected, (didn't put on the cloak, armor, set up a wall, use your zombies to attack inbound enemies, etc) the spawn points allow freedom of movement until you get forced to commit to an action and will likely still be there next turn with more mana on them. Take a breather and cast drain life on something attacking you, wall yourself off, or whatever you think will stop the current issue.
As far as zombies being bloodthirsty pests, while that's true, that is baked into the mana cost and ability set. If you want capable guards, you play as the priest/ess or warlords. Forcing a Mage to fight or counter most of the creatures who come his way is the calling card of forcemasters as well, so I've always just had zombies engage, usually under a frenzy, whatever comes my way.
Doesn't always work, but is about as reliable as most builds.
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This is an interesting build! I can really see what your groups meta prefers by looking at this book. Do you play on OCTGN? I'd love to test a few of my books against this.
Personally I prefer the double mana crystal into death ring Libro. The Graveyard I find slows down the game way to much. I run a skelly Necromancer book though. I have a lot of problems with your book for rushing. I feel that books like the Rushmaster would be really difficult for you to defend against.
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Coshade oddly enough he's the only reliable zombie Necromancer in our area. The other two Necromancers, myself included, play skeletons.
This book has had trouble in the past with a local Earth Wizard same as my Queen City Beast Master. Looking at this book it's a little different from most of the other local ones.
I agree a strong rush gives this book fits, then every book has the paper to it's rock.
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The main critique I have, that has nothing to do with other books, revolves on the amount of creatures you have.
I feel you have too many and not enough versatility. It only takes so many dice of damage to kill the enemy mage.
If one stick of dynamite is enough to clear the cave entrance then why use 5 sticks?
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Because isn't 5 sticks WAY more fun?
instead of boom, you get
BOOOM
I'm kind of curious to see how my books would do since I tend to play a much faster style. However, I really like the look of this one. It's giving me a few ideas for the necro book I've started to construct.
In what situations have you actually found it useful to play Adramalech? Is he an early drop for you, or a nail in the proverbial coffin?
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The thing is, you don't absolutely have to cast two, or even one a turn if tactics call for it. The mana return you get from the spawn points is still there. If you can't shape the game to keep yourself protected, (didn't put on the cloak, armor, set up a wall, use your zombies to attack inbound enemies, etc) the spawn points allow freedom of movement until you get forced to commit to an action and will likely still be there next turn with more mana on them. Take a breather and cast drain life on something attacking you, wall yourself off, or whatever you think will stop the current issue.
The thing is, I don't see this book being able to "stop the current issue" in case of a rushing mage. You have two sources of armor, only one dissolve and no acid balls to get rid of enemy armor. In my experience you would simply lose the damage race against armor stacking opponents or mages with inherent defensive abilities, such as Wizard, Druid or Forcemaster that attack + attack spell, or attack with spells twice (the rushmaster being an extreme example). The only option i see, may be hiding behind walls.
As a side note, i think Libro + Harmonize is not a good combination, since Disolve is so effective against it.
This is just my point of view and it is not my intention to sound harsh :) . My local meta seems to be completely different from yours, so take what i said with a grain of salt.
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@Coshade- I don't play on OCTGN. Skellies are much more expensive in general than the zombies, and may not play well in a double spawnpoint environment. Zombies go up to 11 mana and skellies, not including the dragon, go up to 16. Different builds for different creature types is fine. Force master can give me fits, but half a dozen psychic immune creatures hitting him gives him fits too, and the corruptions are really meant for him in any case.
@Intangible0- Zombies are just about, and most literally true of the crawlers, half of most normal creatures. They have resiliency, but bad rolls can make them die quickly. I have played every creature in my book a few times now in marathon games. Maybe it's just a conceit, but after those games I tend to swear never to let that happen again.
@SharkBait- He's usually an early drop, though I've cast him late game as a final nail. Sending him out early against the druid is always fun, but I've used him far more often against local warlords. Something like, turn 1 drop a crystal forward and step right once. Turn 2, drop him and place a face down enchantment, likely nullify. Turn three, he steps up and you put on cheetah speed and mongoose agility, face down. Turn four, reveal enchantments and he runs up and hits the warlord's barracks, ignoring guards in the zone and usually taking it half way down. The enemy usually starts responding to him and ignores me setting up spawnpoints since losing their only one, and an effective 3 mana per turn, seems more urgent. If he can take out enemy creatures too, that is a pretty good bonus and I've had him last the rest of the game as well.
@gerni- Knowing when to hold a wall in hand is very important. Knowing when to have the cloak on early is important. This usually means that mages that want to directly hurt you are very close and near double spawnpoints. They can stand in a zone putting out the 2 creatures a turn if they want. The mage end of this book is definitely a finesse game; if you position yourself poorly, you will get rushed, and they will take something from you. You have to know when to develop, when to counter rush, and when to prepare a defense.
As for armor stackers, they take time to stack, which gives me time I need to take the creature game in hand. Zombies do have trouble against decent armor when doing regular attack rolls, but the chance to do 3 immediate non-mitigatable damage with the venomous zombies' taint adds up quickly along with an upkeep trigger of rot from plague zombies. Dodgers have to dodge too many creatures to come out unscathed. The ravenous ghoul/zombie brute+eternal servant combo is decent for a guard with piercing, though mana intensive. And I have had the book dissolved before and other games where the graveyard got hammered. It sucks. Never really stopped me, though. You still have a spawnpoint and your own full action. Necro zombie builds afford mana discounts that usually allow you to take that hit.
Still not saying it is perfect, or fast, but it has more versatility than you would expect.
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What do you use for Eternal Servants?
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If I'm a Zombie Focused Necro: Deathfang
If I'm a Skeleton Focused Necro: Venomous Zombie
Good Regardless of Focus: Skeletal Archer, Plague Zombie
I find that when looking at Eternal Servants I want to cover the weaknesses of my chosen troops. So for zombies I have Deathfang that is quick. For Skeletons I have the Venomous Zombie as Skeletons have a harder time applying poison conditions to things.
SKeletal Archer and Plague Zombie are always good choices as they can really make use of the abilities from Eternal Servant.
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I usually make a Ravenous Ghoul my servant if I need to respond to something quickly early game. If it isn't allocated late game, I tend to give it to a plague zombie and send it off into a densely packed zone. I put the sacrificial altar in recently to speed up the combo somewhat. Very useful for priestess and warlord zone-busting since they have a tendency to set up shop in one zone. Even the priestess has difficulty dealing with rot placed on multiple creatures.
The altar combo is an expensive, but a fun idea. 9 mana a turn for a 2-3 die 1 piercing attack with a d8+ rot chance,, sac to give something +2 die +2 piercing, place rot on everything in its zone. I would frankly be satisfied with an attack for 9 mana that placed a rot on everything in a zone. Not always useful, but when there's a cluster it really works well.
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As I have played against this book I have no doubt in telling you this makes my armor stacking earth wizard cringe a bit. It is so unorthodox a play style that it shakes up my normal strategies. I don't care who you are you do not want to get drained!!!
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I have just seen this spell book win a local tournament. It plays VERY well indeed. I did not think it would beat the Earth Wizard like it did.
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I didn't think it would beat the earth wizard the way it did. Only managed that because I managed to read him a couple times early in. If I hadn't, he would have caught me and killed me for sure. Still working on my anti-wizard plans...
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I didn't think it would beat the earth wizard the way it did. Only managed that because I managed to read him a couple times early in. If I hadn't, he would have caught me and killed me for sure. Still working on my anti-wizard plans...
Also it was a timed match and I was running an end zone hail Mary. I could stepped back and taken a draw. But no matter how you slice it you got me good on an amazingly close match.
"Most mage warriors look out for the earth wizard... the earth wizard looks out for zombie necromancers"
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Congrats on winning the tournament!
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Thanks. Had some really close calls. Still getting a read on my opponents' tactics.
Jason Bourne Zombie comes from a match with silverclawgrizzly where a frenzied crawler dealt 7 critical to a damaged Brogan. This tournament's Jason Bourne zombie was a brute that dealt 9 critical to a steelclaw grizzly. If not for that, I am sure the match would have been completely different.
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I think this book seems to be way to greedy there is just not enough defensive stuff.
I'm not trying to be a troll but it would surprise me if it could even make round 8 vs a rush build. :-\
Imo you should just remove some creatures and add more armor and maybe even a teleport trap to go along with your walls.
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Honestly, my book IS the least defensive in my area. It does suffer vs some rush builds, but sometimes it pulls out a surprise or two that swings the match. As to not making round 8, that can be misrepresentative. I've killed priestesses, warlords, and beast masters by round 8.
Most everyone in my area pays double and triple spell points to cover all of their bases, and less than a third of those caution cards see play each game. Silverclaw has a force push and thorn wall in his book to use against aggressive mages, but it doesn't see much use against me.
Not all books have to have the same 'necessary' cards. Restricting your definition of what is necessary and expanding how you can use what you have does eventually lead to greater efficiency.
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I'm a new player, but I have to wonder how this deck would deal with the Mordok's Obelisk, Suppression Cloak and Suppression Orb way of dealing with swarms (my usual method)? Do you just have so much mana flowing in that they are simply a small inconvenience? If there is an injured mage or creature your zombies will pretty much ignore any conjurations so they can't help you pull them down?
Also if you are dealing with the Tinker Bells Angel type of deck with a super Guardian Angel attacking you, what do you do? Send over the Lord of Fire as quickly as you can and hope it brings her down before she gets too buffed up, or try to time the Arcane Corruption to avoid the opponent's Dispels and Nullify? It just seems too easy for their flying angel of death free to wreak havoc as you have few guards, direct damage, Maim Wings or flyers.
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Fewer people play the obelisk, cloak, and orb at the same time than you would think, but I do still have tactics for those situations. Lead in with larger creatures, like the brute and ghoul. Unlike the crawlers, they hit hard and have relatively good movement speeds. Making a ghoul your eternal servant works well enough early to mid game, since that leaves you with a 4 dice 2 piercing fast creature that can come back in the square you wanted it attacking in the first place. Otherwise, players investing heavily in this strategy either have very few creatures of their own, or are mana poor. Sometimes you can just field lumbering zombies, and they will be enough without the frenzy. Taint and rot help this strategy immensely.
I've not yet dealt with the tinker bell's angel tactic yet, but my initial response is maim wings, arcane corruption, drain life/soul, or adremalech. Admittedly, timing is crucial to avoid nullify, but my area's nullify game is off the charts, so I feel I would have at least a decent chance of slipping some incantations and curses through. Worst comes to worst, put out a brute to guard. Another tactic I use is simply ignoring certain cards. Make something slow, and then calmly stroll about the field as it struggles to catch you. Either the enemy Mage runs towards your zombies to do dispel work, or they accept it as a loss, even temporarily. Either way, many gambits lose their tempo this way. Won't work every time, but good to have in your repertoire.
I try not to represent this book as working well against everything, but it does have answers that at least curb many different tactics enemy mages would employ. What I most lack in terms of experience, is facing forcemasters. I imagine I will be remedying this soon, though. Dreaming up new tactics already.
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Must remember to throw JasonBourneZombie through a wall of thorns soon....
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Guykilledbyadremalechsayswhat?