Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spells => Topic started by: BR3AKR on January 28, 2013, 10:00:30 PM
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(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/542363_482439595125471_559733313_n.png)
So, quicksand was just spoiled on the facebook page. I've got to say I really like the flavor here (not sure how I feel about the card as it plays, I'd have to wait until I see it on the board). However, it brought up a couple concerns.
1st, would teleport free a creature from this spell? I don't see any reason why not, but figured I'd ask.
2nd, almost immediately there were questions as to what 2X means on the facebook page, is it 2 + the creatures level? I'm guessing it means 2 times the creatures level, but perhaps in the future if you just leave it X for any variable cost, and then specify that X is twice the creature's level that would alleviate some of the confusion.
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Teleport will work, the attachment won't follow.
2X means Two times the creature's level. If you see #X then its multiplied, if its added it'll say #+X.
It's meant more to slow a target down then kill it per se.
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2nd, almost immediately there were questions as to what 2X means on the facebook page, is it 2 + the creatures level? I'm guessing it means 2 times the creatures level, but perhaps in the future if you just leave it X for any variable cost, and then specify that X is twice the creature's level that would alleviate some of the confusion.
Firstly, I am sure they will do another codex with the expansion, explaining things like this and other new keywords.
However, this is a standard mathematical term - 2X means, and has always meant, 2 multiplied by X. The spell 'Explode' has already set a precedence for 'X+ an amount' casting costs, so I don't really understand why there is any confusion here.
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I was gonna make a math joke in my post, but decided against it :P
Keep in mind this game appeals to a large swath of diffrent gamers, someone comming from a CCG will be more inclined to see each symbol seperately.
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I'm sure that most folks will get that it's twice x, as you stated it's a standard used in a lot of places. I offered the suggestion because immediately after the spell was posted on facebook two people asked about what '2X' meant. In general I'm sure AW wants the game to be as accessible as possible, even in simple cases like this, and thought this was a simple enough solution.
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Yeah, 2X totally made sense to me :)
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If a creature were to be teleported away, would the sink tokens be removed as well? I assume so.
(thematically it would make sense since it effectively takes 4 rounds to sink in the sand, and the longer you are stuck in the the harder it is to get out.)
actually... the text refers to the target of the spell so:
if a creature is teleported away:
1)does the quicksand stay?
2)does it affect an unwitting creature that enters the zone? (or an additional creature that might still be there)
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Quicksand works like Tanglevine, if you teleport the target out it gets discarded. The sink tokens are on quicksand itself so they go away too.
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I believe you...
but feels inconsistent with the fact that it's a conjuration. I guess I was under the impression that conjurations stayed in a zone. Seems like it should have been a trap enchantment card.
curious to hear the reasoning about what the difference is.
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I believe you...
but feels inconsistent with the fact that it's a conjuration. I guess I was under the impression that conjurations stayed in a zone. Seems like it should have been a trap enchantment card.
curious to hear the reasoning about what the difference is.
I think it's consistent; walls, temples, tanglevine, etc, are all conjurations. I'm not sure what other category this would fit into. You're creating quicksand under a target. Seems like a conjuration to me.
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Banish would also get rid of Quicksand, since it also is a teleport.
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I believe you...
but feels inconsistent with the fact that it's a conjuration. I guess I was under the impression that conjurations stayed in a zone. Seems like it should have been a trap enchantment card.
curious to hear the reasoning about what the difference is.
I think it's consistent; walls, temples, tanglevine, etc, are all conjurations. I'm not sure what other category this would fit into. You're creating quicksand under a target. Seems like a conjuration to me.
I agree in theory... But walls, etc stay where they were conjured and don't disappear once "spent" (tangle vine being the other exception).
The way it's implemented feels more consistent with the hellfire trap or teleport trap behaves. (Single use on a single creature)
Anyway... I can get used to it. Just feels different than the other types of conjurations that stay in the zone.
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There is some mechanical diffrences, as you can't teleport out of an enchantment. That and this is a physical object, and if it wasn't indestructible you could kill/destroy it.
Being that no matter how many times you punch quicksand it won't be destroyed though...
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I guess I'm struggling with why a conjuration would go away just because the target is teleported out of it. Seems like it should stick around. Anyway... I get it.
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I guess I'm struggling with why a conjuration would go away just because the target is teleported out of it. Seems like it should stick around. Anyway... I get it.
Maybe it does stick around in the form of inert sand with all of the magic that made it dangerous in the fist place gone. Disapated into the aerher once the victim was freed from the quicksand spell.
That's the way I visualize it anyways.
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In the rulebook, under Teleport section, there is rule, that everything attached to creature, exept conjurations, is teleportet with it and conjurations are discarded.
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I guess I'm struggling with why a conjuration would go away just because the target is teleported out of it. Seems like it should stick around. Anyway... I get it.
It's just like in the movies: After you've sunken all the way into the quicksand it appears as regular sand again. :)
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If I had to rationalize it, Id say because its not a zonewide pool of quicksand (otherwise the whole zone would suffer the effects, ala gas cloud) that its small enough that when the victim is pulled out of it that anyone else can see that part of the arena floor has been melted into a sand trap and can just step avoid it since zones are so much bigger areas than the quicksand area.
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If I had to rationalize it, Id say because its not a zonewide pool of quicksand (otherwise the whole zone would suffer the effects, ala gas cloud) that its small enough that when the victim is pulled out of it that anyone else can see that part of the arena floor has been melted into a sand trap and can just step avoid it since zones are so much bigger areas than the quicksand area.
I know this is OT, but now that makes me want a zone-wide DOT that turns the zone into LAVA.
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In the rulebook, under Teleport section, there is rule, that everything attached to creature, exept conjurations, is teleportet with it and conjurations are discarded.
good catch.
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Percent chance of escaping quicksand with a Quick action:
0 Sink: 41.7%
1 Sink: 33.3%
2 Sink: 25%
3 Sink: 16.7%
If a creature spends all 4 action phases attempting to escape, its chances are as follows:
Escapes after 1 action: 41.7%
Escapes after 2 action: 19.4%
Escapes after 3 action: 9.7%
Escapes after 4 actions: 4.9%
Sinks and dies: 24.3%
On average, a Quicksand will cause its target to lose 2.43 action phases, with a 24.3% chance to kill it after 4 action phases. That's a pretty good effect for only 2*Level mana.
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Somebody likes looking behind the curtain. ^
Pious is correct that is almost the exact math I wanted when this was in playtesting. I do like the way this works.
I know this is OT, but now that makes me want a zone-wide DOT that turns the zone into LAVA.
Those may be in the works. :whistle:
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Percent chance of escaping quicksand with a Quick action:
0 Sink: 41.7%
1 Sink: 33.3%
2 Sink: 25%
3 Sink: 16.7%
If a creature spends all 4 action phases attempting to escape, its chances are as follows:
Escapes after 1 action: 41.7%
Escapes after 2 action: 19.4%
Escapes after 3 action: 9.7%
Escapes after 4 actions: 4.9%
Sinks and dies: 24.3%
On average, a Quicksand will cause its target to lose 2.43 action phases, with a 24.3% chance to kill it after 4 action phases. That's a pretty good effect for only 2*Level mana.
A priestess can fiddle with those numbers a little bit too for better odds if she is running a Temple of the Dawnbreaker, giving the creature a re-roll every round if they fail the first time.
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Although the average is 2.4 turns, the probability of escape is front loaded. I would follow quicksand with a cheap stun. Lightning bolt would work well against a pesky buffed Knight of Westlock since he will be restrained.
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I seem to be necroing a thread, but I think its the best place to write this:
I think quicksand should be errata-ed to obliterate a creature rather than destroy it? It seems inconsistent to me that you quicksand a creature(lets say minotaur), kill it with quicksand, and then he pops out of it as a rise again zombie creature. then you quicksand him again, wait 4 more turns, and he is destroyed.
I guess it could be explained by the reanimate spell lifts them out of the sand. but then why cant they be lifted out of the sand again when quicksand kills the zombie?
If quicksand kills zombies then how does making a creature a zombie save him from the quicksand? its like the ground is devouring the creature.
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Actually, I think the visual of seeing a creature pulled underground, only to have it dig its way up to return as a zombie. I actually think it's pretty cool.
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Actually, I think the visual of seeing a creature pulled underground, only to have it dig its way up to return as a zombie. I actually think it's pretty cool.
Except that what he's talking about is if the creature was already a zombie when it gets destroyed by quicksand.
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If i QuickSand a Creature and Thorg with his Taunt ability will be "provoking" a creature in a quick sand, will this creature just try to attack Thorg and will not have an option to try to get out?
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To my understanding the creature is then screwed. Just like Quicksanding a Blood Thirsty creature and leaving a damaged creature in the zone.
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Thx, i was just wanted to be sure that i am not doing anything *funky* :)
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If i QuickSand a Creature and Thorg with his Taunt ability will be "provoking" a creature in a quick sand, will this creature just try to attack Thorg and will not have an option to try to get out?
This only work if the creature is able to to try to attack. So if thorg is in another zone, the creature can't move to him to try to attack so it is free of its action choice.