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Messages - Alexander West

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31
Events / Re: Mage Wars Tournament @ GenCon Indy 2014
« on: August 20, 2014, 07:37:33 PM »
My tournament report from GenCon is now up on the Arcane Wonders' Mage Wars page.  It has the full spellbook, as well as commentary on the spells and games played:
http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/gen-con-champions-tournament-report

I have started a thread in the Spellbook Design and Construction subforum for anyone who would like to discuss the book:
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14540.0

I did my best to get all the details right, forgive me if anything is slightly off, I worked purely from memory!

32
My tournament report from winning the championship at GenCon is now up on Arcane Wonders' Mage Wars page:
http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/gen-con-champions-tournament-report

If anyone is interested in discussing the book, I'm happy to talk about it here.

For reference:
Straywood Beastmaster
Attack:
3x Acid Ball
1x Geyser
1x Hurl Boulder
Creature:
6x Thunderift Falcon
4x Timber Wolf
Conjuration:
1x Deathlock
1x Etherian Lifetree
1x Lair
2x Rajan's Fury
1x Renewing Spring
3x Wall of Thorns
Enchantment:
1x Enfeeble
1x Jinx
1x Rhino Hide
1x Reverse Attack
Equipment:
2x Bearskin
1x Dancing Scimitar
1x Eagleclaw Boots
1x Elemental Cloak
1x Leather Boots
1x Leather Gloves
1x Mage Staff
Incantation:
1x Banish
4x Dispel
4x Dissolve
3x Force Push
1x Minor Heal
1x Purge Magic
1x Purify
2x Seeking Dispel
2x Teleport

33
Thanks very much to everyone for their advice on this topic and their congratulations for the victory!  It was great to have a sounding board about the evolution of the format before heading to GenCon.  You guys helped convince me to play my favorite strategy, consider which countermeasures to load my book up with, and to avoid the pitfall of playing a pit strategy.

Arcane Wonders said they were going to put out a full report with the top 8 booklists, lots of pictures, and some metagame analysis of decks.  I also plan to write a tournament report which I will probably complete sometime this week.  Without going too deep into it at the moment, I'll give a brief sketch of my plan:

T1: Lair (aggressive move to NC and cast in FC, defensive cast in start corner)
T2: Deploy Falcon (pet), QC Falcon, punch if possible
T3: Deploy Falcon, QC Falcon, punch if possible

It's really important to get a critical mass of birds on the table fast so that the opponent is pressured to spend time armoring up or countermeasures like archers or flying creatures can be killed before taking (much) action.  From there I mostly tried to use cards like Dispel/Dissolve/Acid Ball as countermeasures to defensive measures my opponent might take.  Acid Ball vs. armor stacks or to soften armor on conjurations, Dissolve vs. cloaks, bows/whips, and sometimes chest pieces, Dispel vs. damage barriers, etc.  Etherian Lifetree and Healing Spring both played a big role in keeping falcons alive vs. some threats (the tree is amazing vs. Ring of Fire) while Rajan's Fury provided extra firepower when a critical mass of Falcons were achieved.

My opponents at the tournement:
Swiss:
Arraxian Crown Warlock (4-0)
Anvil Throne Warlord (0-4)
Water Wizard (4-0)
Arraxian Crown Warlock (3-1)
Top 8:
Forcemaster (4-0)
Air Wizard (4-0)
Fire Wizard (3-1) - Charmyna Blasting Banker book

More to come later, but for now I should probably go back to sleep!   ;)

34
Thanks everyone for all the offers of help.

The books I've played and enjoyed in the past:

1) Streywood Beastmaster Falcon Swarm Aggro - This book would use a Lair and power out 3-6 Thunderift Falcons to peck the opponent to death pretty quickly.  Damage can be augmented en masse by Rajan's Fury, while cards like Acid Ball, Dissolve, and Force Push keep the opponent's defenses in check.  My main concern with this book is that anti-swarm counterplay can be backbreaking.  It used to be I never saw many Mordok's Obelisk/Suppression Orb type cards, or Ring of Fire type cards, but they were scary threats.  To me it looks like Forged in Fire created much more support for Demon and Soldier swarm strategies.  Are other swarms on the rise?  Have people found them to be better than Streywood?  Are anti-swarm cards on the rise in response?

In particular swarming with the Aldremelech Warlock using Wildfire Imps looks somewhat interesting.  Bloodfire Helmet offers a very inexpensive mass pump for Demons, and the Flame -2 and teleport abilities offer great ways to beat Suppression Orb and Ring of Fire.  The Warlock is also in some ways better at beating down than Streywood, since Fire spells offer the best rate on Damage to mana and I often was splashing for Poisoned Blood or Deathlock to stop healing from happening.  On the down side the Imps lack flying, which exposes them to being attacked by all the other creatures in the universe.  Anyone have experience with this strategy?

2) Push You Wizard - Boring old Jet Stream / Wall of Thorns combo.  Max out on water spells to drop armor, air & force spells to push folks, and walls of thorns to shove people through.  Huginn for extra actions and seeing over walls, Mage Tower for extra actions, and a few Gorgon Archers and Whirling Spirits to spice it up.  Deathlock and a couple curses to stop recovery, etc.  The more wily the opponent the harder it is to anticipate what defense they are going to give themselves.  The new Rust curse looks extremely helpful, as you no longer need to guess "equipment" or "enchantment" before they armor up, and now they also need to guess "curse" or "corrode".  On the minus side, it seems like a Warlord with Harshforge Plate is a nightmare to keep stripping all the defenses off of.

3) Plant "Pit" Druid - This used to be my favorite book.  I would throw down a couple of Thornlashers wherever opponent is standing, and then slowly summon Vine Snappers until they found they didn't really want to be there.  (Often too late).  I would Dissolve their TP wands, and match them TP for TP to keep putting them back in pit.  Vinewhip Staff to give them stuck, etc.  Fortified Area for a big boost to the plants in combat.  If the opponent didn't have a good plan to get out of the plant pit, it was pretty much always the end for them.  I like this book because it is very good at attrition/economy, but also has a proactive game plan.  The down side is books with a lot of fire, and opponent's with hardcore mobility spells.  (Like, 4x Teleport and 2+x Force Push.)  Has the amount of fire spells going around your tables increased?  Have strategies moved away from a lot of teleports?  (Hah, fat chance, right?)

The Book I've Been Wondering A Lot About:

4) The New Warlord - There are a lot of powerful equipment in the game, and I think the meta has been to 4x Dissolve to stop it from getting out of control.  With Harshforge Plate, Armor Ward, and the equipment runes, it seems the dwarven warlord can actually build the equipment combos they want and have a reasonable chance of either keeping it, or bankrupting the opponent on mana if they want to destroy it.  I'm not sure what you do with an equipment Voltron, but it seems like either banking a ton of mana and then wanding out some direct damabe (Power -1!) or building a steady stream of tough support creatures could both grind an opponent down?

35
Hey Folks,

My family and I are headed to GenCon next weekend, and a few of us are going to play in the Mage Wars tournament.  I haven't touched the game since Forged in Fire (just picked it up today) and am wondering how the metagame has changed.  Are new archetypes dominant?  Are there new must haves?  Have some spells become less important?  Is everything actually just as I left it?

Looking for advice, and any links to Spellbooks folks think are top notch.

Thanks!

36
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: March 05, 2014, 08:50:09 PM »
This conversation has not been data driven.  Instead, it has been driven by some people feeling that the Wizard is imbalanced, some people feeling like people were leaving the game because the Wizard is imbalanced, and one of the consensus best players saying the Wizard is imbalanced.

Having no stats is unfortunate, since in other hobbies it has been the case sometimes that the thing the crowd complains about is just okay.  Also, the crowd will always be complaining about something, regardless of whether there is something significantly problematic.

All I know is that the four varieties of Wizard are very good, but I don't know if that means they're broken or not.  (There are several other mages that seem very good in the post DvN meta.)

37
When I play an aggressive strategy, I feel my opponent loses a ton of tempo by playing mana crystal/flower.  I actively welcome them doing so.

When I play a creature-based attrition strategy, I can usually trade ~2-3 actions of a ~10 mana creature to destroy one of them.  It always feels like I'm getting ahead when I do this, and I usually feel free to do this because my opponent loses the "creature war" because I can outsummon them in the initial clash because they sunk so much mana into crystals/flowers.

In my mind the perfect amount of mana generation is +1 over your opponent.  When it comes to Crystals/Flowers, I'd almost always rather pay a little extra to upgrade to a Battleforge, Spawnpoint, or Familiar depending on my strategy.  So, no, I pretty much never play Crystals/Flowers.

38
What you *need* to Dissolve depends heavily on the game being played, but:

* Veteran's Belt if you're going to ignore armor and accept 50% damage from your creatures.
* Mage Wand (Teleport) if you're trying to accomplish anything with creatures/pits.
* Dragonscale Hauberk and Elemental Cloak if you're trying to burn someone down.  (Other armor more efficiently acid balled.)
* Eagleclaw Boots if you have a push based strategy.
* Warhammer if you're in a non-moving creature brawl.  (50% daze on two targets is unacceptable.)
* Staff of Asyra if you're running a non-living/incorporeal book.
* Lash of Hellfire if you're running plants.

I think Wand of Dispeling might also be on the list for a curse based book, but I don't have enough experience there to speak to it.

39
I thought the discussion we all had last week about bringing all the mages up to par was a very good one.  A point was brought up that I thought was very good about how each school needed to be mostly self-sufficient so it can buy mostly in school spells, with some holes in its capability so it might want to buy some out of school spells.  How big should these holes be?  (Ideally, how many of their 120 SP should be spent out of school?)  For each school of magic, what should their holes be?

I kind of think we need to shift away from the Magic the Gathering mind set where people tend to think of the different types of magic by what they are capable of. Instead, maybe we should think about the different schools by their weaknesses. Each school should be MOSTLY self sufficient but with a few glaring weaknesses that force them to delve out of school. When they do venture out of school there should be multiple viable options to choose from so that nobody has to take specific cards or ever delve into their weak school.

For example, Arcane currently has no way to heal it's creatures. It also has no way to buff it's creatures. It can neither increase it's creature's damage or increase it's creature's survivability. Perhaps that is how we should think of Arcane, it lacks creature support and has to venture out of school to acquire it.

The other major schools should have a similar crux, but otherwise be self sufficient.

I think it is also probably useful to say what a school is exceptionally good at.  Below is my impression of what the schools are supposed to be bad and good at.  Would love to see these fleshed out to where we think they are right now, and ultimately where they should be.

Unholy
Strengths: Debuffs, Transfering Damage (and Conditions?)
Weaknesses: Protection / Buffs

Light
Strengths: Healing, Condition Removal, Protection, Attacks vs. Nonliving
Weaknesses: Attacks vs. Living, Debuffs

Arcane
Strengths: Metamagic, Mana Generation
Weaknesses:  Creature Modifications (Enchantments, Heals, Conditions)

War
Strengths: Group Buffs, Mobility, Ranged Combat, Attacks vs. Conjurations
Weaknesses: Metamagic, Mana Generation

Nature
Strengths: Living Creature Buffs, Healing (Regeneration), Mana Generation
Weaknesses: Attack Spells

Mind
Strengths: Mobility, Creature Control, Defenses, Deception
Weaknesses: Ranged Combat, Some Metamagic

I think the use of something like this, is when we ask a question like: How does each school deal with a hostile enchantment?  We begin to have answers.  (This is just a hypothetical example.)

Unholy:  Should have an enchantment/incantation to move a debuff (or stack of the) back on to an enemy.  This follows their philosophy of helping themselves by harming an opponent.

Light: Should be able to remove harmful enchantments on own creatures, maybe with a face down preventative mode like Nullify as an option.  This follows their philosophy of protecting their own people.

Arcane:  Should be able to remove any enchantment since it is a core strength of the school.

War: Should not have an in-school enchantment removal since this is a weakness.

Nature:  Should be able to remove an enchantment on living creatures.  Almost as good as Arcane, but their core strength is dealing with magic on the living, not the nonliving.

Mind: Not really sure.  I don't see how my current understanding of their flavor interacts with enchantments.  It seems like it doesn't, so maybe they shouldn't?

Anyway, I figured if we had a good understanding of what the schools did or didn't do, there might be a nice fundamental roadmap to overall school balance and therefore mage balance.

40
Teleport already doesn't work to pull out a Turtle because of Enchantment Transfusion tricks.

I like the Fall Back and Mistform/Juggernaut ideas Boomfrog, good thinking on both.

I would like to see Obscured be more widely available.  It just seems like a good trait to make available to most mages since it messes with the Teleport game.  (It's why I suggested the Smoke conjuration in another thread.)  It doesn't make turtling any better, but it makes it one step harder to get someone in a pit.

I think you are underselling Armor Ward.  Sometimes it's a hard counter, otherwise they are always floating 4 extra mana which is a penalty on its own.  If you make them lose 4 on multiple Armor Wards, that adds up to a significant mana loss for their side, which could give you a game winning creature/pair of curses all other things being equal.  I think Enchanter's Stone could be flawed, but Armor Ward is awesome.  (Though, I wish it had cost 2Holy OR 2 War instead of one of each.)  Mana on the board trumps SP for most time stamps of the game.

41
Spellpoints change would be temporary changes for tournaments only (and most likely most fervent players would follow too), until the cards pool allow the game to balance itself out.

Modifying cards to become Novice is a worst change to achieve the same effect.

Novice errata would also be for tournaments only, so it is also only temporary until things even themselves out.

Points changes assume certain spells will be played, and tries to charge or discount for them.  I think this doesn't work as well as a Novice change, because with temporary Novice errata the player can choose whether or not they will use the proscribed spells.  (And can load LOTS of copies if they want, rather than just the 2-4 we speculate they want.)

42
Rather than give different mages different numbers of points, I think *if* a short term errata is to be made, I'd just like to see some number of "must have" arcane/water spells be made Novice.  If Teleport is one of those spells (I'm not sure it should be) Novice can be reworded to 1x Level instead of just 1 total.  I think this is the most elegant solution, and I think it cuts to the heart of the problem.

For the record, I don't feel like making Wizard's Tower Epic fixes much.  I usually don't play more than one copy to begin with.

43
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 28, 2014, 03:23:11 PM »
A big +1 for Zuberi's 3 big font posts about balance and the four "weak" mages.

+1 to RingKichard's persepctive on Wizard power.

+1 to Aylin's suggestion about making more OR spells, and possibly going back and reprinting new OR versions of staples.  (Which I think is not remotely as upsetting as errata.)  OR versions of Dispel is my favorite suggestion so far on curbing Wizard power/uniqueness.

+1 to Boomfrog's perspective on walls, and metagame positioning


I've been thinking a lot about the Warlord, and I think they've been poorly pigeonholed as brutes.  I'd like to see more of the brilliant and sometimes unconventional tactical manuvers of great generals.  I want them to be cunning, like heroes from Romance of the Three Kingdoms.  I also want them to be better at moving their troops than anyone else, masters of logistics.

Card Ideas:

Forced March - 3 Mana - Incantation(Command) - Control target unit for 1 move.  If the target is not Slow, you may pay 3 additional mana to control this unit for a second move.  (This does not count as a unit activation.)

 (I like the pun on the name, since you're either moving your own unit a lot, or literally forcing an enemy unit to move!)  This seems like a nice alternative to Teleport.  It doesn't help with Tanglevine type stuff, but it does work with Iron Golems in a way Force Push doesn't.

False Orders - 2X Mana - Non-Mage Target - Incantation (Command) - X = Creatue's Level.  You may activate this unit and make all choices for its action.

Smoke - Conjuration - ? Mana - All creatures in this zone gain the Obscured trait.  Line of Sight ends at this zone.

I think the idea of totem equivalents for soldiers is really compelling.  I was thinking about it yesterday, and Aylin reminded me in her post:

Doctrine of Mobility - Conjuration (School) - ? Mana - Friendly soldier creatures may make a move before or after their activation.

Doctrine of Defense - Conjuration (School) - ? Mana - Friendly soldier creatures may gain a guard token after their activation.


44
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 27, 2014, 01:38:26 PM »
Swallowing a spider to catch a fly is fine, until you have to catch the spider.

I do totally understand the wish that we'd hurry up a bit on addressing Teleport and Wizard's Tower. But a Priest book won at Bashcon, didn't it?

Not only did a Priest win at Bashcon, but they played a Warlock in the finals.  I don't even think a Wizard was in the top 4.

45
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Bringing all mages on par!
« on: February 27, 2014, 01:37:02 PM »
Warlord Wishlist

When I sit down to build a book, I have in mind a reason that it will be better than whatever is currently popular.  When I want to build a Warlord, I look at his VET tokens, battle standard, his command ability, the command ring, and melee training.  Each of these abilities tells me something:
VET tokens: make lots of soliders, make sure they are durable enough to make use of being a VET
standard: make at least one soldier with a horde of guys getting buffed by him
Command: get a mass of melee or archers in the same place
ring: better rates on command incantations, or command ability can be free every turn
melee: fight on the front line

To me this says I should have one very resilient soldier to put a battle standard on (and try to engineer getting a VET token), a couple medium soldiers to get pumped by the standard (tough enough to live with a VET token), and then a horde of weaker soldiers to maximize the standard and command buffs.  The metagame punishes swarming, so instead maybe I want just a handful of pretty elite soldiers.

If my warlord is going to be fighting on the front line, it means I'm probably going to want a spawnpoint to do my summoning for me.  This will free up my actions to do damage.  Whether I'm trying to use archers or melee guys, the command ability says I want my enemy to be one space away (so I can either have archery range, or leverage charge).  This means I might want to use my quick action to cast a spell that controls enemy location (force push, teleport, tanglevine).  Basically, I'm looking for more standard and quick actions so I can line up all my synergies.

The new generation of spawnpoints (Druid and Necromancer) have been great because they allow the spawnpoint to summon *at the mages location*.  This allows them to get in the action 1-3 turns earlier, depending on where the action is at.  This is huge!  Following this logic, this is what I want as a Warlord:

Command Post - Conjuration (Outpost) - Unique - Some Stats (Incl. Channeling 1).
May not be placed in a zone adjacent to another friendly outpost.
Like Wizard's Tower for command Incantations (and War conjurations?)
Like Garrison Post except Spawnpoint may also summon here.

I understand if a Spawnpoint/Tower is too much text for one card, and obviously the Tower functionality is more important to me.  (Maybe Garrison Post could be erratad then?)

I also really need an in-school method for moving enemy units.  I can not pay triple for teleport, and even paying double for force push seems wrong.  The Warlord cares a lot about board position and needs his own spell for it.

Marching Orders - Incantation - War - 3 mana
The casting player may immediately make one move of their choice for the target.  The casting player may pay an additional 2 mana to target each unit in the zone.

With just these two spells, I feel like a Warlord gets a lot better at their core competencies.

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