But I'm talking about curses. There aren't any current curses that restrict movement. It would be nice if the dark mages could have a way to restrict movement that would cost less spellpoints.

I was looking through curses the other day and it struck me that there aren't any curses that prevent a creature from moving. Sure, there is enfeeble to slow down a creature, but why not have a curse that restrains creatures the same way tanglevine or force hold do? And you could call it "paralysis"? The spell could have a timer on it (to prevent it from being OP) and would most likely have a cost proportional to the level of the target creature (just like how Sleep works).

After playing Necromancer pretty much non-stop the last week I have solidified my favorite necromancer spellbook.

2 Invisible Fist

1 Graveyard
2 Wall of Bones

6 Zombie Crawler
4 Zombie Minion
4 Venomous Zombie
1 Shaggoth-Zora
4 Unstable Zombie
4 Plague Zombie
2 Zombie Brute

2 Agony
3 Maim Wings
2 Marked for Death
2 Poisoned Blood
2 Ghoul Rot
1 Death Link
1 Harmonize
1 Nullify

1 Cloak of Shadows
1 Demonhide Armor
1 Leather Gloves
1 Death Ring
1 Libro Mortuos
1 Colossus Belt
1 Regrowth Belt
1 Leather Boots

2 Animate Dead
2 Zombie Frenzy
2 Seeking Dispel
4 Dispel
2 Force Push
2 Dissolve

An underlying point to this might be the fact that its not a coincidence that med amulet was put in the set with the two mages both capable of more than 1 spawnpoint.  Samara is the druids second spawnpoint, not to be in competition with the first.

Yeah it isn't a coincidence at all. If anything the Necromancer and Druid are the only mages that can reap the benefits of meditation amulet. The only problem is that meditating prevents you from moving (this is a much bigger problem for the Necromancer if you are planning on sitting back with Cloak of Shadows)

Mr. Saucy (and everyone else advocating for Samara Tree builds), just what advantage do you think Samara Tree has over Vine Tree?  I'm honestly curious, since the only reason I would use a Samara is if I wanted to shoot myself in the foot.

1) If you don't use a vine marker during a round it is doing nothing (other than allowing you to reach further with your spreading vines ability). But if you don't use a seedling pod during a round it continues to channel and becomes more powerful as the game goes on. I can give an example. There was a game where I had a seedling pod in a zone but later the action moved away from that zone. I thought the seedling pod was useless. But then that pod reached 6 mana and I realized I could spend just 1 mana from my supply to deploy Etherian Lifetree (I was playing against a Necromancer so this ended up being a good idea).

2) Seedling pods work well if you want to go heavier on conjurations than normal, especially cheap conjurations like bloodspine wall, tanglevine, mana flower, etc. If you aren't big on conjurations and want to focus on creatures, which a lot of players understandably choose, then stick with vine tree.

3) Seedling pods can lead to "big" turns. For example, say a pod deploys a bloodspine wall (0-1 mana from your supply) while an adjacent pod spawns a thornlasher (0-4 mana from your supply) and then you use your QC to cast rouse the beast on the thornlasher. And after all of this action you still have your main action marker to perhaps meditate with meditation amulet, move into a better zone, summon a creature, stuff like that. Vine Tree doesn't offer "big" turns. Instead it offers consistency and speed.

4) As the earlier example demonstrates, seedling pods are excellent at saving actions. And there is plenty of evidence that actions are just as important a resource as mana.

5) Seedling pods maximize your aggregate channeling (your tree channels, your pods channel, and you channel).

6) This is the weakest argument but I think samara treed and seedling pods are "more fun" than vine tree, especially if you don't have to win to enjoy the game. Samara Tree and the pods really embrace the druid's themes, and if you are anything like me you enjoy playing thematically... maybe even when you realize it may not necessarily be optimal.

I want both the Paladin and Siren to be centered around creatures. I would like to see more soldiers with anti-dark themes and I think having a lot of sea creatures to choose from could be sweet. I'm gonna lock in my guess and say that Siren will be trained in water and psychic spells. That would make the most sense to me. Maybe she would have a built-in psychic spell as a special ability?

Quote from: MrSaucy on June 13, 2014, 05:20:21 AM

You clearly haven't played enough games with Seedling Pod Druids that know what they are doing then.

1) Druid has some of the best zone control in the game so she is excellent at forces her opponent to go where she wants. Try avoiding zones with Seedling Pods when a druid has them spreading all over the arena,
2) It doesn't take long at all for the pods to get going. With tataree pumping up the pods they reach 3 mana in no time. If a plant is in a bad zone you can use thornlashers to direct enemy creatures where you want them to go.

I don't like this mindset that Vine Tree > Samara Tree. Both builds are equally viable. They just require different play styles and spellbook designs to be effective.

to 1) I dont care about seedling pods, if a druid uses them. I just kill attack the druid. The game is usually over before these pods can do anything, thats really threatens my forces. On top of that, my forces can easily kill any seedling pod while advancing to the enemy mage.

to 2) Tataree ... the butterfly that dies 1 round after summoned with an unavoidable attack? You mean that thing? *g*
The thornlashertrick is more effective then used with Vinetree, because you can spawn them where _you_ want and not where your seedling pods have been planted 3 rounds ago...

I would like to play against your Druid sometimes. Octgn is what you need

Really? The game is over before the pods get to do anything? How short are your games? 8 rounds? Also, time you spend targeting tataree and seedling pods is less time you are taking to develop in the beginning. Sure, tataree dies with an unavoidable attack, but who really wants to waste an entire attack to kill a cheap little butterfly? Also, do you really want to be wasting time attacking pods? Don't you think that will slow you down even just a little? If you do that you are doing what the druid wants you to do... ignore your own ideas and try to deal with the opposition. Sure, you can spawn Thornlashers wherever you want with vine tree. Same with samara tree. With a samara tree in the center it can deploy a seedling pod to five different zones. This can help if you don't have vine markers to extend to those zones. Keep in mind the druid has excellent conjurations in addition to excellent creatures. Think of it this way. You typically use your vine markers with summoning creatures and then your seedling pods can cast cheap, annoying conjurations like tanglevine, stranglevine, bloodspine walls, nightshade lotus, and corrosive orchid. In the end your seedling pods act sorta like vine markers anyway. They take a little longer to payoff but combining them with vine markers expands your versatility and options. You can cover more ground. The sacrifice is that you can't cover ground as quickly as you can with vine tree.

(Also I edited my first response because the first thing I said was a dick move. I didn't mean to be a dick, I just get really passionate about this sorta stuff.)