Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: timer000 on May 25, 2014, 10:42:52 AM
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I have play many game with my friend.
My friend 'nec spellbook dont have any spawn point!!!
and only having 2 skull knight creature in his spellbook.
No other creature!
he have
battle forge x1
armor x2
leather boot x1
leather glove x1
rhino hide x2
veteran belt x3
mage wand x2
healing wand x2
because he is a nec,
he have death link
regrown enchantment
he can heaL 4 life each turn...
This always be a really long game when i fighting with him.
I always try to rush him very soon.
(he always stand in the corner,and dont leave it)
When I kill his ceraure(some skull knight with eternal servent ),
and giving him about 20 damage.
Then he finish his super equip set , and no creature can damge him anymore.
Because of he have 6 armor + veteran belt + death link + regrown enchantment
I have a lot of creature in play,but cannot give him any damage ><
then he start to attack me with his weak melee attack. and some curse.
Or killing my every creature in my spell book in a very slow process.
Maybe the game will take 30 turn or more.
but he will win after 2 ~3hour.
And my poision blood or any direct damage curse cannot work on him effective.
(beacuse nec's poison immune ability, and some mage like druid & beastman dont having curse..)
It is very very slow game,
Once I did beated him with 2 or more acid spell(but now he have a wand of healing for currode )
My resolve always work on his mage wand x2(blinding with dispel & dissolve )
Today he just stand there, and use mage wand to "drain life" again and again to kill me.
(my resolve worked on his another mage wand,and his another veteran belt in early game)
I have try to beat his battle forge with"force hammer" and "surge wave" in early game,
But it is not really help!!
I copyed some race chamion's deck in this web to fight him.
But almost every chamion deck be beated by him after 2~3 hour-_-.
May someone give me a advance for beating him> <
More super aggresive rush?
(dont care about his creature ,only force on himself??)
Thanks
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Where does he cast the Battle Forge? His starting corner?
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Yes... Battle forge is always in his corner
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You'll want 3-4 Dissolve and 3-4 Acid Balls depending on your mage. 3 Acid Balls should reduce a 6 armour creature down to 1 (negating the Veteran's Belt). As soon as any Wands of Healing come out you need to Dissolve them quickly.
Direct Damage is also an option; Force Crush, Magebane, Burn Tokens, and Bleed Tokens are all effective against a Necromancer (possibly include Deathlock to prevent the Necromancer healing). You don't actually need to inflict damage to cause Bleed tokens for example, the d12 just needs to roll high enough...
Force Push/Teleporting him out of range of the Battle Forge and then restraining him is also an option for dealing with it, though it can be hard to pull off.
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You'll want 3-4 Dissolve and 3-4 Acid Balls depending on your mage. 3 Acid Balls should reduce a 6 armour creature down to 1 (negating the Veteran's Belt). As soon as any Wands of Healing come out you need to Dissolve them quickly.
Direct Damage is also an option; Force Crush, Magebane, Burn Tokens, and Bleed Tokens are all effective against a Necromancer (possibly include Deathlock to prevent the Necromancer healing). You don't actually need to inflict damage to cause Bleed tokens for example, the d12 just needs to roll high enough...
I did try....
So his dispel only force on something like "Force Crush","Magebane"
I know 3-4 disolve is a good solution.
But this is a uncommon chance in any mage's spellbook.
It seems a perfect mage....
To beat every champion deck...= =
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A mage can't have two of the same item equipped. This is includes Mage Wands, even if they're in different slots. I mention it just in case you meant he had one with Dispel and one with Dissolve at the same time.
Now, to the suggestions:
--Dispel his enchantments. Remove Regrowth and Death Link; no regen. Pack up to four Dispels and a Dispel Wand.
--Limit his mobility. Tanglevine him once the creatures are dead, or curse him with Enfeeble, and keep out of range of his Drain Life. Let your creatures whittle him down.
--Get rid of key equipment. Focus your Dissolves on the items that matter: Wands and Belts. Pack more Dissolves.
--Pack some Acid Balls to reduce his armour.
--Use Nullifies to keep him from enchanting himself. Might even be worth packing a Steal Enchantment or Purge Magic, in this situation.
--Add some Falcon Precision enchantments of your own, to deal with the Knights' Defense rolls.
--Once his Knights are dead (and you have a few creatures on the board) play a Deathlock. He can't gain life, he can't regenerate.
--Put Walls in between your mages, but not in between him and your creatures.
--Ignore his Knights entirely: if they're Guarding, use Tanglevine, Pushes, and Teleports to isolate his mage from his creatures.
That's just off the top of my head; I'm sure others can come up with more ideas.
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3-4 dissolves isn't uncommon. It's mandatory.
Aylin's suggestion of Deathlock is a good one, also.
What sort of spellbook are you playing?
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Get a creature in his start corner, then push him out of it and wall it off early. You could play a Priest or Priestess and use Divine Intervention to move him to your start corner early and then use an Acid Ball to drop the armor on the BF and then hit it with Water based attack spells.
Make a Dissolve Wand and just Dissolve his equipment, carry 4 wands and 6 Dissolves. Make sure to have your creatures kill any Ward Stones and Dispel Armor Ward when it comes out. In the interim have a creature(s) focus on the Battle Forge. Focus on Dissolving the buffs first like the Belt and then the Healing Wand, then armor. He will have to react at some point and get out of his turtle.
Like someone else said bring on creatures that have attacks that place effects like Rot, Bleed, and Burn. The effect roll just has to succeed to be effective.
Curses work too (also mentioned), add in a Finite Life conjuration so he doesn't heal. Then let the Direct Damage (and the creatures effects above maybe) take him down.
So Warlord is good for this also as Piercing is very effective against high armor, FiF has the Crossbowmen (Piercing +2) and the Battle Order Take Aim gives Piercing +2 so Piercing +4. Put on the Helm of Command and bind Piercing Strike to it. Bring out Grimson, hit him with a Hawkeye place him two zones out, then give him Take Aim and Piercing Strike (for a total of Piercing +5) and blast away. You can choose to take out the BF first or just to shoot the mage. This will have to wait until June though.....
Just some ideas...
A mage can't have two of the same item equipped. This is includes Mage Wands, even if they're in different slots. I mention it just in case you meant he had one with Dispel and one with Dissolve at the same time.
There is a wand called Dispel Wand and then you can bind Dissolve to a Mage Wand and that way you can carry both.
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@sIKE
Rot is a Poison effect, so it isn't useful in this discussion.
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I missed that the mage was a Necro...so yeah Poison effects will not work in this scenario. But on other high armored Mages poison is a highly effective Direct Damage effect.
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Use a creature that has Devour. That way he can't use his eternal servant ability.
Get Kralator with 4 bobcats to feed him then send Kralator on his servant. Then the mage will be cake even with 6 armor.
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I missed that the mage was a Necro...so yeah Poison effects will not work in this scenario. But on other high armored Mages poison is a highly effective Direct Damage effect.
My friend once play other high armor mage.(ex: warlord & wizard)
But we always try to beat him by "poision blood" & "rot" & "ghoul rot"
So he change to be a high armor NEC.
And NEC is work much well & strong than other high armor mage....
bleed & burn does not work well on a high armor mage.
Bleed can be heal by regrown or death link.
Burn is not easy to put on him with dragonscale hauberk.(he has 2 dragonscale hauberk in spellbook)
The key solution is poision blood & rot ....
But all cannot work on NEC...
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3-4 dissolves isn't uncommon. It's mandatory.
Aylin's suggestion of Deathlock is a good one, also.
What sort of spellbook are you playing?
Now only "very Aggressive" mage have chance to beat him...
Other mage which is not "very Aggressive" type cannot win him at all in my opion.
I did try destory battle forge in early game....
But it seems give much help....
Because it will cost me a lot of mana to use "surge wave" & "force hammer" ,
then I cannot play in a very aggressive style.
Maybe need more test...
I have a Aggressive priest.
This priest will start game with bloodstone & battle forge.
and try to beat down enemy.
But this priest is very hard to win.
Beacuse I cannot give him any light damage to put burn token in middle game ,alought I have 7 dice attack.
(NEC with cloak of shadow)
Bloodstone can damge this NEC 1 damage per turn in average .
I will use bear strength on bloodstone,but he always put agony on bloodstone,too.
When Bloodstone is killed , I am lose.
Other,I have a Aggressive druid.
This druid will start game with vine tree and bear.
And rush enemy as soon as poisible!!!
This druid have more chance to win.
because this druid have more disolve & disolve ability plant & acid spell
I have try
Forrest - Johktari Beastmaster .
Matt - Priestess.
( http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13044.0 )
Thomas forcemaster.
(http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13718.msg31266#msg31266)
All this chmapion mage is hard to win.
But i think i dont use this chmapion mage very well.
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Bleed can be heal by regrown or death link.
It can, unless you use Deathlock or another means to put Finite Life on your opponent as has been suggested before.
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Bleed + Deathlock will be very effective. Force Crush is another 2 damage per round, and will keep him away from your conjuration. Use an Intercept creature to defend it against ranged attacks.
And in ANY books, 3-4 Dispels, 3-4 Dissolves, 2-4 Teleports. There is no excuse to not take at least that.
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I'll occasionally go down to 2 Dissolves because my opponents rarely play equipment that I feel compelled to destroy, but there are pieces of equipment that I always want to destroy when I see them, so it's safer to run 3+ Dissolves.
As for dealing with an armored Necromancer, either choose to destroy all of the equipment giving Flame -X and start landing fire attacks, or remove the Veteran's Belts and just power through the armor. Without Veteran's Belt, no matter how much armor they have, you can still get damage through by throwing enough dice at the problem.
Bleed + Deathlock is another reasonable solution, particularly for a Beastmaster with 4 Dire Wolves.
As is stacking Corrode to strip the Necromancer of Armor and destroying the Wand of Healing.
Honestly it sounds like this Necromancer's clock is so slow that I don't see what the issue is. You should have plenty of time to adapt.
If you're struggling, just play a Gate of Voltari Wizard with 4 Teleports, 4 Devouring Jellies, and a Darkfenne Hydra or 2. Play all of your Jellies, then lock the Necromancer down with Force Crush in a zone with 4 Jellies. The Necromancer won't be able to survive that for long. Once he runs out of armor, your creatures should be able to kill him in 1-2 rounds of concerted attacks. Besides, Watergate Wizards run 6 Dissolves and 6 Dispels anyway... If you're concerned, run 6 Acid Balls as well. I don't see how this Necromancer build would even have a chance against a decent Watergate build. There are things that every mage can do against an armored Necromancer, but the Watergate Wizard is the build that should hard counter it.
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Yeah, the advent of corrode has made the highly armored mage much easier to defeat. The great things about mage wars is that there is a counter to everything. It is all about making sure your spellbook has the tools to handle most situations and knowing when to deploy those counters. To be honest, I don't see this guy being much of a problem and everybody in this thread has given you the tips to take him down. It's up to you now to do it.
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When you see a necromancer play a defensive forge, then alarm bells should go off.
With this openingen you cant know excately what he will do. He can go veteran belt tank (new to me), or double (or even tripple) spawnpoint.
You cant beat a zombie army, and judging from this post a veteran belt tank necro can be hard to take down if he get to build up as well. Solution: Get in his face.
Once you recoqnize that he doesnt play meditation amulet / death ring and libro / grave yard, then you should know what he is up to. So you initiate your counter.
Get 2 or 3 bigs and depending on the situation you might want to wreck the non-eternal servant first. He will have pretty low damage output, and soon be forced to guard with the servant which means you can decide what it attacks - this should leave all your creatures alive.
Dont be afraid of changing strategy during the course of this engagement. If you start out going for the mage, and he spends 3 actions and 15 mana on equipment, then its fine to change to board control. Clear the board of his creatures while you get ready to set up for the kill.
Once you are ready nuke him with acid ball every round and if he have very low damage you can even use your mage to remove guards so your big hitters can do the job.
AFTER, always AFTER he plays his regen stuff then you Death Lock. This way he gets 2 or 4 healing off, but spends almost same or more mana than you.
Or you can do as sdougla suggested, and play WaterGate Wizard.
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Bind an acid ball on an elemental wand for efficient armor removal. You don't really need 4 dissolves, 2-3 should be fine, the main problem is the armor and acid ball is a much better solution to that rather than dissolve.
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Bind an acid ball on an elemental wand for efficient armor removal. You don't really need 4 dissolves, 2-3 should be fine, the main problem is the armor and acid ball is a much better solution to that rather than dissolve.
This will not take care of Belts and Wands and other non-armor items so be careful with you decision. A Watergate Wizard with Jellies would be quite effective as it was pointed out.
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I will play my Warlord deck against him.
With the new Armory all your Friendly soldiers gain piercing +1 and melee +1 (that is just a bonus if it comes out).
But I don't really need the Armory yet.
These are the cards you needed:
1) Brogan (natural piercing +3). That makes his added armor -3.
2) If you have the armory available or if it is released this will make Brogan attack with -4 armor.
3) Take a few dissolves and dispels + mage wand.
4) Take Piercing strike (+3 to piercing) incantation.
If he does not have enough creature then he will lose with Brogan. Or a well supported Brogan (Healed).
Hope this helps you.
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Bind an acid ball on an elemental wand for efficient armor removal. You don't really need 4 dissolves, 2-3 should be fine, the main problem is the armor and acid ball is a much better solution to that rather than dissolve.
This will not take care of Belts and Wands and other non-armor items so be careful with you decision. A Watergate Wizard with Jellies would be quite effective as it was pointed out.
The only belt that absolutely needs dissolved would be the Colossal Belt (whatever the tough -2 one is). You can cancel the regen with poisoned blood, ghoul rot, deathlock, etc, and the veteran belt does absolutely nothing if you get rid of the armor. Yes the wands are a problem, but i doubt many books run more than 2.
I think 3 dissolves is perfectly fine. It's not like the "stack armor, regen, vet belt" strategy is necro specific. This is pretty much the stereotypical battleforge strat. I've played against it and the only thing that is really worrisome is the armor, and the only spell that really makes gains against armor is acid ball. That's just my experience though.
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@Timer
Please do not make more than one thread on the same topic while the current thread is still active. 8)
I will delete the other thread(s) and leave only the 1st one.
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I try to rebuilt one of my friend's deck by my memory.
Maybe some of cards are different.
mage:Nec
Conjuration
Mana Crystal x2
Battle Forge x1
Idol of Pestilence x1
Deathlock x1
Creatures
Skeletal Knight x2
Adremelech, Lord of Fire x1
enchament
Agony x2
Magebane x1
Enfeeble x2 ( play on enemy biggest creature or mage for earning more time to recover his life )
Death Link x2
Rhino Hide x2
Ghoul Rot x2
Nullify x3 ( waiting for enemy's dissolve)
Vampirism x1( for nec to gain life)
Maim Wings x1
Regrowth x2
Poisoned Blood x1
Incations
Drain Life x3
Dispel x3
Dissolve x3
Teleport x2
Seeking Dispel x2
Equip
Mage Wand x2
Wand of Healing x2 (For heal and remove corrode)
Demonhide Armor x1
Dragonscale Hauberkx1
Leather Boots x1
Leather Gloves x1
Cloak of Shadows x1
Veteran's Belt x3
Enchanter's Ring x1
This deck is almost nothing for damage ememy mage.
Every thing is existed for denfence & wasting enemy's dissolve .
4x dissolve is not enough to Break his denfence somtimes...(If nulify works again one of my dissolve)
In Turn 1 he will stay in corner and cast "battle forge "&"mana crystal"
In turn 2 he will summon Skeletal Knight +Rhino Hide and Enchanter's Ring( by battle forge)
Skull knight with ethernal servant is use to kill enemy's creature ,mana conjuration .(not for guard)
Then killing enemy mage by curse or adam or "mage wand+drain life" after 2 hour.
If all of this cannot work ., he will start to attack enemy conjuration or mage by his melee attack .
Maybe this way will take 5~6 hours to win.
The most thing that I care is the game experience.
No mattle who wins , the game always have 2~4 hours game length
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First start putting time limits on your game. Who ever is ahead after say an hour and a half wins. That right there should get rid of half this books strategy immediately. Also if you ever play in an organized play event I can promise you: They will put time limits on your matches.
Kill the Skeletal Knight or tie him up with Tangle Vine, or just Agony him. Do the same for Adramelech. Then just start Acid Balling the enemy mage. Use Seeking Dispel to get rid of the Nullify then hit him with a Dissolve in the same turn to get rid of the Mage Wands he has. Also Surging Wave on his Battle Forge should make quick work of it early on. Then he has to equip all his stuff out of his own mana.
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First start putting time limits on your game. Who ever is ahead after say an hour and a half wins. That right there should get rid of half this books strategy immediately. Also if you ever play in an organized play event I can promise you: They will put time limits on your matches.
Kill the Skeletal Knight or tie him up with Tangle Vine, or just Agony him. Do the same for Adramelech. Then just start Acid Balling the enemy mage. Use Seeking Dispel to get rid of the Nullify then hit him with a Dissolve in the same turn to get rid of the Mage Wands he has. Also Surging Wave on his Battle Forge should make quick work of it early on. Then he has to equip all his stuff out of his own mana.
I forget use tange to this week @@.
Only add more dissolve+ more acid spell +death lock in my spell book .
I will try it .
Thanks!