Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Creative => Topic started by: Terrazas on June 15, 2014, 08:37:59 AM
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After many games of playing with this board my play group and I have decided that this is much better then the normal arena that comes with the magewars core game. Especially mutliplayer games wither it be 2v2, 1v1v1, 1v1v1v1.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/Terrazas656/DC9E4ADA-E4DF-4FA7-8149-50EDED6B2548.jpg
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How do you work out walls since every zone has six sides
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Here is a way to do walls on a hex map: put the wall on an intersection of three hexagons. it blocks two of those hexagons from the third hexagon, depending on how you orient it. When you extend a wall you have to check to make sure it touches the old one. the walls count as being in all 3 zones for attacks.
you could block off a middle zone with 3 to 6 walls, depending on the wall locations.
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it seem really nice indeed for multiplayer. do you have some way to make a portable version? it seem like a whole table was used with tape to make the hex grids. If i'm wrong, how did you build it?
Did you try/have comments about using it in 1v1? The only downside i see so far for 1v1 is that a mage can easely just run if he has fast and stuff, and its gonna be hard to catch it.
Also, has there been any troubles with the change in zone type so far? one zone is next to 6 others instead of 4 so i guess it can change the dynamic of the game a little, but more reviews/comments about your experience with it would be nice!
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Walls- Intersecting zones block LoS, this is the only rule change that we have made to play on this board. With our play testing we have found that this works great for walls.
1v1- All you have to do is take out the outer ring and you have the right amount of space to play 1v1. Not to big and not to small. The few times where we have played one 1v1 on the board agro decks still have that rush element you get from the standard board which is what we wanted. The board we found also makes playing the warlord more enjoyable since you have more room for conjurations. Most of our games have been mutliplayer, we have had a lot of play testing with 2v2, 1v1v1, and 1v1v1v1. On 1v1v1v1 we did make another rule change to increase spell points to 140 instead of the standard 120, reason being is because the game usually lasts awhile and we would end up exhausting our spell books.
Zones- Yes it did change the dynamic have 6 zones to pick from 4. You have more angles you have to worry about but you also can take advantage of them. I feel that it has honestly made the game more fun, we hardly play with the standard board anymore.
We are working on making a portable version out of vinyl or some type of fabric so you can roll it up and take it with you. The current board is made out if multiple poster boards glued together.
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Looks good for a 3+ but in 1vs1 this makes the opponent 1 space closer. Also center square Archer can cover the while map. Those are pretty big differences. Has anyone has success with a defensive strategy on the 1 vs 1 version?
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Yes they have using walls, traps and archers towers. Their idea was to basically defend and pump out a army of soldiers. We have also played where someone would run straight for the middle and place a gates to hell down. It made for a interesting game since people were moving around the edges.
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Here are more details to expand on Terrazas’ original post.
I thought I would share a great success story we’ve had with our Hex Map Board and the resulting 3 mods we made to the core Mage Wars system. We have play tested these mods dozens and dozens of times with 5 experienced players over the course of nearly a year and we’ve never looked back. We very rarely play 2-player any more, mostly 3-player or team play with a few 4-player free-for-alls thrown in.
(1) Hex Board
(2) Walls at zone corners block Line of Sight (LoS)
(3) 3-Player Cut Throat Games get 130 vs. 120 Points
(4) 4-Player Cut Throat Games get 140 vs. 120 Points
MOD #1 (Hex Board) - THE MAP BOARD AND SETUP:
Map board consists of 37 hexagonal zones, each approximately 8 inches wide from edge to edge. In its current iteration the map board fits on a 50in square table.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/HexDiagram_20_zps47c98f63.png)
2-player configuration: Mages start in opposite corners and exclude the left/right edges from play (map board narrows). This ensures each mage starts 6 zones away to meet the spirit of the original game design.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_2Player_20_zpse8a93313.png)
3-player configuration: Mages start in corners with one corner vacant between each player. This ensures each mage starts 6 zones away to meet the spirit of the original game design.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_3Player_20_zps651e7afc.png)
4-player configuration: 2 mages start in opposing corners. 3rd and 4th mage start in edge zone 4 zones away from one mage and 5 zones away from the other. Each mage must start 4 zones away from 1st opponent, 5 zones away from 2nd opponent, and 6 zones away from 3rd opponent. This configuration ensures no mage has a disadvantage over their opponents.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_4Player_20_zps20f93957.png)
4-player team configuration: Each team starts on a map edge opposing the opposite team. The team mages can start in any of the 4 zones on their edge to include starting in the same zone.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_TeamPlay_20_zps11c10694.png)
Game play proceeds as per the official rules. Exceptions are the MOD #2 Rule regarding LoS on a hex map board, and when applicable MOD #3 or MOD #4 when playing cut throat.
MOD #2 (Walls at zone corners block LoS):
This was necessary because a hex zone offers 6 vs. 4 sides. Our Goals with this mod:
(a) ensure walls continue to be an effective component of the game using hex zones
(b) do not adversely affect LoS determination
To ensure walls could still be effective we elected to modify the MW rules to permit a wall to block LoS at the corners (zone edge corners). LoS is still determined from zone center but if that line crosses a zone corner with a wall on any connecting edge then Los is blocked. This rule mod has proven very effective and achieved all our goals.
MOD #3 (3-Player Cut Throat Games get 130 vs. 120 Points):
We immediately began playing 3-player on the new hex map board using the standard 120 point builds for Spell Books. However, the strategies used in a 3-player game of cut throat are very different than a 2-player or even team play. A player needs to be wary of finding themselves in a 2 on 1 situation. The end result is either a very fast game for one player or a very long game for all players. As time progressed and our experience with Mage Wars improved we found that longer 3-player games were becoming the norm. This typically meant that we found our 120 point Spell Books did not quite provide the diversity nor quantity of spells necessary to have competitive games. We recently increased the limit to 130 points and this has worked well so far (more play testing needed).
MOD #4 (4-Player Cut Throat Games get 140 vs. 120 Points):
4-Player Cut Throat play is very much like 3-Player Cut Throat only much more dangerous. Diversity and quantity of spells is essential since you now face more and wider variety of foes. Games definitely last longer as the risk of premature aggressive action can easily lead to a 2-on-1 or even 3-on-1 situation. We quickly realized that 120 point Spell Books would not do and increased the limit to 140 points. We have played tested this several times and the new limit appears to be just right.
NOTE: 4-Player Team Play did not have this challenge. After dozens of team games, we have not seen a need to adjust the limit from the standard 120 point Spell Books.
COMMENTS ON MULTI-PLAYER GAME EXPERIENCE:
We thoroughly enjoy playing Mage Wars with more than 2 players. 2 player games have become rare and 4-player Team play seems to be the most enjoyable.
Team play games are usually the most fun and on average seem to go slightly faster than 2 player. Once one mage dies, if the opposing teams mages aren’t badly hurt then the game is called as the single mage team has little hope of winning. Having an ally allows for interesting mage-mage combos and actions taken by one mage to directly support another (e.g. enchanting your team mate, or teleporting your teammate into/out of harms way). It is also fun to watch a team melt down when players forget their acting as a team and try to go solo or take some action unexpected by their team mate.
3-player and 4-player cut throat are the most exhilarating with everyone on edge throughout the game (loads of taunting and negotiating for temporary alliances). These often last 4+ hours though; our last 3-player game was so evenly matched that it lasted over 8 hours and had to be called a draw due to player exhaustion.
6-Player Team Play, we would love to give this a try if/when we recruit a 6th player into our group. 2 teams of 3 mages or 3 teams of 2 mages should prove to be very challenging and enjoyable. I suspect these will be very long games though, but then again, so many mages on the board may force confrontations early.
5-Player – WHAT?!?!?! Our group of 5 would love to give this a go but we haven’t figured out a way to make it happen. There is no simple, fair way to bring 5 mages into a hex or square arena and I am NOT going to design a pentagonal or decagonal map board.
HISTORY OF THE HEX MAP BOARD:
Why do this? I never liked playing tactical games on a map board consisting of square zones. The hex is a time-proven method to bring a bit more realism to a 2 dimensional game board.
Size matters: In designing the board, I wanted to ensure it did not get so big as to be unwieldy and yet have sufficient number of zones to attempt to adhere to the original game design (each mage begins 6 zones from their opponent). An additional constraint was to ensure each hex zone was sized sufficiently to hold 2 cards end-to-end (approximately 8 inches). With these constraints in mind, the map board consists of 37 hexagonal zones, each about 7.5 inches wide from edge to edge. In its current iteration the map board fits on a 50 inch square table.
How to create a large hex? This is not as easy as one might think. It is frustratingly difficult to achieve a perfect 60 degree angle 6 times! Templates exist but these are for smaller hexes. I wanted hexes that measured nearly 8 inches from edge to edge. I tried to design a template on the computer but all angles were not a perfect 60 degrees when printed. I tried using a protractor but could never manage to get the angles consistently right 6 times out of 6. The template imperfections meant I had to figure a way to hide my mistakes. I elected to use wide borders as a means to cover up my lack of skills. My most recent iteration used a different technique using thread which I will describe later.
How to transport/store this large hex map board? This was a challenge from the very beginning and has undergone 4 iterations to reach its final state.
Iteration #1 (The Great Puzzle): The first idea, and the most complex, was to have the hexes be interlocking tiles. The vision was a great puzzle that we could assemble and break-down quickly. I knew going in that I did not have the skills or tools to do this perfectly so I envisioned using foam that could compress and help lock the individual zones together. I purchased 1/8 inch thick foam sheets, and cut-out the hexes with notched edges so they could interlock like a puzzle to an adjoining zone. This idea proved very difficult and the results were not impressive. It is not easy to create a single large hex, and even more difficult to create 37 of them with sufficient accuracy to align together without any noticeable imperfections. Add in the interlocking component and you quickly have a mess. No two pieces were exactly the same so figuring out how best to assemble the board between games proved to be too arduous. The end result was also too large to fit nicely on my 53 inch square kitchen table. This version just would never work and was abandoned without a game played.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_Iteration1_25_zps718ee3cf.jpg) IMAGE OF ITERATION #1
Iteration #2 (The Great Puzzle gets a Make-Over and Glue Down): The next idea was to abandon the tear-down nicety of the Great Puzzle and make one large fixed board. I glued the puzzle pieces down to a thick 1/2 inch foam board) and added some texture. The texture consisted of 37 hex images of dark stone tiles glued onto the individual hexes. After the glue set then whole board was given a coating of Mod Podge and the board had a nice semi-smooth shiny sheen! This version worked very well for many games but proved very difficult to transport and store. The thick inflexible board was over 4 feet wide so a new version was needed.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_Iteration2_25_zpsd5a386eb.jpg) IMAGE OF ITERATION #2
Iteration #3 (Thin and Flexible): Taking the ideas from my first two iterations, I printed out 37 hexes using a nice brown tile pattern. Since I couldn’t find 50 in x 50 in sheets of poster board, I patch worked several sheets of poster board to form one large surface and glued the hex paper sheets to it. Then I continued to glue additional poster board sheets to the first and so on to form a plywood-like board of 4 layers of poster board. The whole map board was trimmed into a great hex and then Mod Podged for durability and sheen. This version worked very well and is still used today. However, while flexible enough to be bent and stuffed in the back of a car, this version still had storage challenges. Something even better was needed.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_Iteration3_25_zps94bdaba9.jpg) IMAGE OF ITERATION #3
Iteration #4 (Vinyl Baby): I just happened to wonder into a Jo Anne’s Fabrics and discovered I could buy vinyl that was 50 inches wide and in whatever length I wanted. 50 inches just happened to be the exact width of my Mage Wars hex board; who would have thunk it! A vinyl map board could be rolled up which solves both my transportation and storage problems. Vinyl also comes in a variety of colors and textures and is very easy to clean should something get spilled. So I bought enough to make a couple 50 inch map boards and proceeded to draw my design on the vinyl using a pencil. The thought behind the pencil was so I could make mistakes before I used my permanent Sharpie to finish the design. Unfortunately pencil does not draw well on vinyl which led me to take the risk and shift directly over to the Sharpie. I somehow forgot my bitter lessons: (a) how difficult it is to create a large hex, (b) my creative cover-up idea of using wide borders, (c) you cannot erase mistakes from a Sharpie. Well needless to say both vinyl sheets are now FUBAR. I tried again with a 3rd sheet but this time I also bought some white thread. I taped down parallel lengths of thread across the vinyl at precise distances from one another. I repeated this at 60 degree angles until I had a grid across the vinyl sheet. The intersections of the threads showed me where the hexes needed to be drawn. Now I carefully used my Sharpie and a straight edge to draw directly over the thread for each hex edge I wanted on the vinyl. Threads removed and I have a very nice and reasonable precise hexagonal map board on vinyl – woo hoo! While not as aesthetically pleasing as Iteration #2 or Iteration #3, this very smooth map board is much more playable and our group thinks it is the best version yet. There’s bound to be artistry added or even another iteration to bring the aesthetics back.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_Iteration4_25_zps7a37a512.jpg) IMAGE OF ITERATION #4
Well that about sums it all up – Mage Wars is a great game and even better on a hex board.
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I think one of the only concerns I would have are for cards like the outposts for warlords that cant be placed adjacent to each other. Since mobility is greater with the hexes there is greater chance that those outpost could be attacked early since they are so far apart.
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Also could you clarify your wall ruling? I would really like to try a version of this board.
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The warlord was probably the mage that had the hardest time with the hex board if he was playing by himself, team games he was very useful due to thier being another mage to support him. But with the release of FIF and the change in ruling with the garrison post he no longer has any issues being by himself. Outposts have always been defended by walls and now it's very easy to have a dwarf panzer to be summoned to the garrison post by your barracks and then have your mage use the defend spell to put a guard token on him immediately, if you feel that your garrison post is in danger. I actually did just this on one of our games that we played allowed me to have enough time to have soldiers appear and have Talos summoned.
Here is a way to do walls on a hex map: put the wall on an intersection of three hexagons. it blocks two of those hexagons from the third hexagon, depending on how you orient it. When you extend a wall you have to check to make sure it touches the old one. the walls count as being in all 3 zones for attacks.
you could block off a middle zone with 3 to 6 walls, depending on the wall locations.
I believe Echephron explained walls perfectly. If you want more of a visual I can take picture and edit it for you just like they do in the core game rule book.
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I would actually appreciate that a lot. I think I have a general idea of what he's saying. I just don't get how it effects LoS and passage traits. Is it like a 3 pronged wall? Also one ruling question...
When shooting from a hexagon to a hexagon 2 spaces away that is connected by a segment, and there is a wall covering half the hex, is the shot legal due to LoS or does the wall block?
There's an attachment image to illustrate this. Am I interpreting it correctly?
Edit: Actually reading it for like the forth time, I realize how silly I am now. Haha. It's like its two prongs oriented at a direction of choice. Is that correct?
Though my question still stands about LoS on Hex diagonals.
Edit again: Added an attachment with another example of possible LoS diagonal issues.
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(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_LoS_25_zps622fd176.png)
Green = in LoS
Red = NOT in LoS
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EDIT:I made this before the above post went through, so we disagree on the LOS of a1->C2
Yes, two "prongs" lined up in a style of your choice just like in Untitled2. I think of it as making a triangle using the two hex-edges and a straight line representing the wall. Both Prongs have to touch the zone you cast the wall into.
The following is the hex board I will use for examples. There is a wall blocking a1 from a2 and b2. note that a2 has LOS to b2.
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a1 B1 C1
a2 b2 C2 D2
a3 b3 c3 d3 E3
b4 c4 d4 e4
c5 d5 e5
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a1 has LOS to all capital letters. ranges longer than 2 are a bit trickier. even though a1->B1->C2->d3 , a1 has no LOS to d3.
I'll try to make up some "HEX wall rules" for you:
1) Casting walls: when you cast a wall into a zone, place the wall so that it touches the target zone and exactly two zones adjacent to the target zone. Treat those non-target zones as one zone for the purpose of interactions with this wall (obstructed movement, LOS, attacks, ect). Interactions between the two non-target zones are not effected by the wall.
a) There can be three distinct walls on a vertex(with different orientations) and four distinct walls(with different posititions) obstructing one zone from another(ex a wall of earth blocking a1 from a2 and b2 and a wall of pikes blocking a1 from b2 and B1). The full effects of each wall will take place.
i) A wall cannot be cast if there is already a wall with that location AND orientation
b) When you Extend, the second wall must overlap with the original wall between 2 zones. You do not need LOS to the target zone if you have LOS to the other 2 zones. (ex. standing at b2, you can cast a wall into c3 which blocks c3 from d3 and d4, then you can extend it to block d3 from c3 and C2 even though you no longer have LOS to target d3.)
2) The "easy" LOS rule: draw a straight line from the middle of one zone to the middle of another:
a) If you intersect a wall perfectly parallel(ex a1->C2), then:
i) If either path has LOS then there is LOS (ex a1->C2 has LOS through a1->B1->C2).
b) If you intersect a wall without running parallel(ex a1->c3; a1->d3), you do not have LOS
i) A wall bordering your zone may not be in LOS if there is another wall blocking LOS in front of it.
3) Wall count as being in any of the three zones for a ranged attack
a) walls are not in a zone for purposes of zone attacks, conquer, ect.
b) an earthquake only affects the wall if its target zones include both sides of the same section of a wall(ie the target zone of the wall and one non-target zone).
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There, those rules took a while. I hope they are exact enough for you. rule 1.a may be changed later if it gets too chaotic.
In your "untitled" pic, if even one path has LOS, then you have LOS. Your gorgon archer example in the second pic has no LOS because both paths are obstructed. Furthermore, a sniper in the gorgon archers spot would not have a range 3 LOS attack on the target, in the same way that a sniper cant attack the otherside of a wall by making LOS that circles around the wall(wall between A1 and B1; A1->A2->B2->B1).
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I'm doubleposting because this post is not about rules.
People are concerned that the enemy starts one zone closer. I would like to point out that on the normal board,you cannot put up a single wall which will slow down how quickly the enemy gets from his starting corner to your starting corner. In 1v1 on the hex board however, you can do this.
I wonder if the change in the total number of zones for 1v1 may be a problem (19 zones compared to 12 in the base game). I would be open to a 2x3x3x2x3x3 squished hex (14 zones) over a 3x3x3x3x3x3 hex.
I like this idea of a hex board a lot, as i often wondered why moving diagonally takes so long. I'm still sticking to the normal board as houserules may alienate players. the best situation would be that the upcoming battlegrounds includes a hex option similiar to the one proposed here.
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Thanks for all the clarifications! This is gonna be fun. I think what I wanna try is a hoax board as close as possible to the regular board. My first idea looks somewhat like this.
A1 A2. A3. A4. A5
B1. B2. B3. B4
C1. C2. C3. C4. C5
A1 and C5 are the start hexes. This board is only 2 neutral spaces larger than the original square board and there are still 3 four space paths on which you can get to the opponents corner so it's still very similar to the dynamic of the regular board but the new spatial issues make things more interesting IMHO. Especially with the addition of the two zones A3 and C3 being middle ground. I have yet to actually playtest it yet but I think one change that might happen is that I remove C1 and A5 corners. Of course this takes out the symmetry of the natural board but it could lend an advantage to having the start zones the only ones with 2 access points.
After this is explored I would like to continue by trying other shapes and see where that will bring me.
Anyway thanks again guys!
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Clarification on Terrazas' post regarding board changes when playing 1v1.
Our initial idea was to eliminate the outer ring but quickly realized this put starting mages one zone closer and would not do. Instead we elected to trim the left and right edge (narrow the field) which in play testing achieved the desired result (see post #7 above).
I have to admit that 1v1 has not been thoroughly play tested as we prefer 1v1v1, 2v2, and 1v1v1v1 - Soooo much more action and tention :o
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(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_LoS_25_zps622fd176.png)
Green = in LoS
Red = NOT in LoS
I don't understand this picture. According to echephron's rules, at least in my interpretation of them, you would have LoS to the spaces that the red arrows are pointing to since one of the paths is not blocked.
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I think LOS is blocked in this case as the Red Arrows pass through the Zone border not the Zone.
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The rule mod that we had to implement using hexes was:
MOD #2 (Walls at zone corners block LoS):
This was necessary because a hex zone offers 6 vs. 4 sides. Our Goals with this mod:
(a) ensure walls continue to be an effective component of the game using hex zones
(b) do not adversely affect LoS determination
To ensure walls could still be effective we elected to modify the MW rules to permit a wall to block LoS at the corners (zone edge corners). LoS is still determined from zone center but if that line crosses a zone corner with a wall on any connecting edge then Los is blocked. This rule mod has proven very effective and achieved all our goals.
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Everyone - as a new member to the forum it took a few days to get my posts approved.
Please read the following post from earlier in this topic (you may have not yet seen it)
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14232.msg41870#msg41870 (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14232.msg41870#msg41870)
This explains our hex map board in detail with pictures, rule mods, multiplayer persepctive, and historical evolution of our design.
Enjoy ... I know we have 8)
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Okay, everything seems to make sense. Thanks all. Also the pictures are great SCat! You said you got Vinyl at a fabric store? Gonna can to look into that. At least for now, all my questions are answered and am ready to do my own play testing. Mine will only be 1v1s since I only have the one opponent at the moment. Will post the results.
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(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_LoS_25_zps622fd176.png)
Green = in LoS
Red = NOT in LoS
I like the idea of a Hexboard, but i have problems with this Line of Sight here. In my opinion, the Hex, were the red arrow points, should be IN Line of Sight, not OUT line of sight.
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Schwenkgott - per the official rules you are 100% correct.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s392/ScaredyCat7/MageWars/Hex_LoS_v2_zps86eafaa3.png)
Keep in mind that a hex arena has more zones in play than a square arena; not more area but more zones. Looking at a range of 3 zones from the target zone the hex arena has 36 zones in play while the square arena has only 24 zones in play (about 33% more zones in play).
In a hex arena the effectiveness of walls to block LoS is greatly diminished when the official rules are used.
- One wall can only effectively block a range of 58 degrees (5 zones) vs. 88 degrees in a square arena (4 zones);
- Two connecting walls can only effectively block a range of 118 degrees (11 zones) vs. 178 degrees in a square arena (9 zones)
With our revision to the rule for hex arenas only:
- One wall can effectively block a range of 60 degrees (7 zones) vs. 88 degrees in a square arena (4 zones)
- Two connecting walls can effectively block a range of 120 degrees (13 zones) vs. 178 degrees in a square arena (9 zones)
Our rule mod for LoS still falls slightly short in effectiveness in a hex arena vs. square arena, but the increased range of motion with more zones seems to level things.
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Did i understand it correclty ... you summon 1 wall and are allowed to block 2/6 sides of a hex-zone?
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Did i understand it correclty ... you summon 1 wall and are allowed to block 2/6 sides of a hex-zone?
No you did not ??? One wall blocks on side of the zone.
Most of the examples provided were showing two walls (one summoned and then presumably extended, or it could be two summoned).
The latest example tried to illustrate the affect of one wall vs. two walls. You were questioning the impact of our rule change and this seemed the most effective way to explain it.
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Okay now I'm confused again..... Sorry :(
I thought from the beginning it was accepted that 1 wall (not extended) is played such that it is touching 3 zones, blocking 2 zones from entering 1 of the zones determined by which direction it's oriented. Thus Los is blocked across two zone edges with the one wall (not extended).
But do you mean to say that a wall is placed between only 2 zones thus blocking movement and sight from the 1 direction?
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I think it makes more sense, when you can place 2 wall sections to block 2 sides of one hex, when ever you summon a wall. With an extended wall, you could block 4 sides of a hex. Makes walls more important, so they have a bigger impact on the game. But everyone can of course play this in a way they want to.
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I think it makes more sense, when you can place 2 wall sections to block 2 sides of one hex
We thought about using walls this way but this would greatly increase their affect in the game and was immediately discounted.
With your proposal:
- Summoning one wall would span two hex zone sides with a gross block of 118 degrees vs. one wall currently spans one square zone side with a gross block of 88 degrees.
- Extending a wall would span four hex sides with a gross block of 238 degrees vs. two walls currently spans two square zone sides with a gross block of 178 degrees.
We did not want to give any component in the game more power because of the hex map board.
Our goal with the hex board was to provide more realistic movement and ranging. Obviously changing the map board was a very big deal but we tried to do so while keeping to the spirit of the original design; this was very important to us. We made every effort to leave the original game rules and errata untouched. The affect of walls on LoS was one exception we had to address. The impact of walls has diminished slightly but they remain an effective component of the game.
The other mods (spell points) were a result of us play testing multiplayer games. We scoured the forum for guidance but found little. What we came up with has worked well and it appears others have adjusted spell points in an effort to speed up their games. We've never been interested in speeding the games up (not yet) but rather to ensure good balance in a multiplayer environment.
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That makes a lot of sense to me. Have you considered discounting walls by 1 mana to make up for the 20 or so degrees lost? Or do you think it's not really necessary?
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That makes a lot of sense to me. Have you considered discounting walls by 1 mana to make up for the 20 or so degrees lost? Or do you think it's not really necessary?
No, we did not consider this. Messing with mana cost was a Pandora's box that we did not want to open.
Any proposed change had to (1) solve a problem introduced by the hex map board, (2) be simple, (3) not create a new problem. LoS determination on a hex map board was an obvious problem that had to be addressed. Our solution was simple and easy to implement. Our solution did not create a new problem rather it diminished an existing problem.
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I meant to make this post awhile back, sorry bout the delay. I used my design of the hex board and it went fantastic. To reiterate the board is in this setup.
A1 A2 A3 A4 A5
B1 B2 B3 B4
C1 C2 C3 C4 C5
Start zones are A1 and C5
This setup made the games feel no different from the basic board whatsoever. So yay proof of concept. One of the only differences is that there are two extra spaces. This can mean a lot when it comes to zone exclusives but since the "board halves" are still accessible in two moves by any mage it changes little. A mage that relies on zone exclusives has almost no extra advantage either way. This formation also makes it so warlord doesn't have any disadvantage with his outposts.
Walls have already been discussed. I feel like the best way to do it is the "two prong" method as it allows you to make a wall across the whole board using three walls.
I found no other real change in gameplay as far as 1v1 goes. If I were to do any more I would likely use the shape originally discussed.
Anyway just wanted to update that hexes make a good substitute if you like them better even for 1v1. I just don't like squares since they can't do circle representation real well. But in a game like this it really doesn't change a whole lot I've found.
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Congrats trying a hex board - does make the game more interesting.
We're still grooming a potential 6th player - Sooo stoked to try a 3v3 or 2v2v2.
Good Luck!